It appears EIN is back and alive. Last time this came up, the program was suspended before I had to leave.

I leave on October 11. How do I register so I am a compliant good citizen?

For the record I already have a 4457 signed.

CBP website only shows permanent exportation procedures, but a link from that takes you to the State Department that does say temporary export requires approval of the State Department, bout does not tell you how to obtain.

The EIN is a unique number that identifies the organization to the Internal Revenue Service. To apply for an employer identification number, you should obtain Form SS-4 and its Instructions. You can apply for an EIN on-line, by mail, or by fax.Mar 26, 2019

Can I get an EIN for free?

An Employer Identification Number (EIN) is also known as a Federal Tax Identification Number, and is used to identify a business entity. ... You may apply for an EIN in various ways, and now you may apply online. This is a free service offered by the Internal Revenue Service and you can get your EIN immediately.

Do it yourself and save
Most online companies that provide incorporation services also include a service for getting an EIN, often charging $75 or more. You can do this yourself for free. To apply for an EIN, all you need to fill out IRS form SS-4 or file online. The IRS does not charge any filing fees to get an EIN.Jun 22, 2019


my accountant said to be careful filling this out. if in doubt get help.

Apparently you have to have an EIN Number to get the export license from the State Department to issue a temporary export license to take rifle out of country for personal use (hunting) unless you are going to Canada.

This whole thing began with the last years of Obama and was delayed. Now it is being re-implemented.

The thing is I can see the exemptions, but not how to do any of this to comply.

Lord not again!!! I hope this isn't really coming back alive...

I leave in 9 days and then again in November...

I have an EIN - because I own a company. I would expect (would have to confirm with my accountant) but if you have an EIN the IRS (hence the state also in many cases) is going to expect to see a tax return every year for the company that belongs to that EIN...

Saying "use the outfitters guns" is OK in some places but I'm headed to Turkey for Ibex this winter and I don' t think I want to use an old Russian sniper rifle...

I'm going thru Dulles Sept 10th and will report back if there are any issues....

F'ing bullshit is what it is!!!!

Isn't it an EEI (Electronic Export Information)form that needs to be filed, and not an EIN (Employer Identification Number)?

Also, the latest update on the CBP website is 6/4/22018. So it appears that whatever waiver was put in place in 2014 (??) is at least not mentioned in the current CBP Information Center.

Jeez, I hate to play lawyer with government forms and Customs Officers. Does anyone have a reference to that previous waiver that I can research and bring a copy to the CBP office when I leave in 2 weeks? Might help.

quote:

Originally posted by H T:
Isn't it an EEI (Electronic Export Information)form that needs to be filed, and not an EIN (Employer Identification Number)?

Also, the latest update on the CBP website is 6/4/22018. So it appears that whatever waiver was put in place in 2014 (??) is at least not mentioned in the current CBP Information Center.

Jeez, I hate to play lawyer with government forms and Customs Officers. Does anyone have a reference to that previous waiver that I can research and bring a copy to the CBP office when I leave in 2 weeks? Might help.

It was March 2015. Ask me why I remember.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
Lord not again!!! I hope this isn't really coming back alive...

I leave in 9 days and then again in November...

I have an EIN - because I own a company. I would expect (would have to confirm with my accountant) but if you have an EIN the IRS (hence the state also in many cases) is going to expect to see a tax return every year for the company that belongs to that EIN...

Saying "use the outfitters guns" is OK in some places but I'm headed to Turkey for Ibex this winter and I don' t think I want to use an old Russian sniper rifle...

I'm going thru Dulles Sept 10th and will report back if there are any issues....

F'ing bullshit is what it is!!!!

Hi Scott.

my accountant indicated that how you fill your application out depends on how you report to the IRS. after you have your EIN, and even if you do not use it, you may meed to fill out a monthly report to the IRS. now the penalty portion got my attention, if you did not file monthly, fines could/would start. I had filled one out when this all started and had my accountant review it prior to submitting it and we put it in the trash. He said when i wanted to do it, come to him to keep me out of trouble with the IRS..

Guys, I am trying to piece together from a couple of threads, and what I can see on CBP website.

I am convinced after looking at CBP website we now have to register and receive a temporary export license (Unless we are going to Canada.

I just do not know how to comply.

Last time the stay came down before I left. This time I leave on October 11.

If they will tell me how, then I will. But I Second any what the hells.

Make no mistake. It is back.

I'm gonna move ahead as if nothing has changed.. The customs agent that issued by 4457 last month said nothing had changed so I guess we will find out..

Since I am less than 10 days away I don't know what else I could do... As long as I get out of the country with I will he happy. Its a damn Ruger Alaskan 416 - it they hassle me on return they can keep the f'ing thing...

Then I have till November to figure out how to get to Romania and Turkey with one!


Bwana - The last thing I want is IRS issues..

I've paid those fines for honest mistakes and they are never cheap! My account will keep me out of trouble as well, as long as I pay his bill :-) .

I posted this in another thread:

I have been playing around trying to see how difficult it is to get into AES and obtain an ITN. buttpainismaximus!

A lot of confusing and contradictory information has been leading me in a complete circle to multiple government websites. However, I managed to find this "simple" explanation. https://www.census.gov/foreign...ne-Pager-English.pdf

If there is a conspiracy to minimize or eliminate taking firearms and ammunition out of the US, this is part of it. So, you jump through all of these hoops for a meaningless number so a CBP officer will put most of the same bloody information in a computer and sign your CBP form. That is just perfect.

Safe travels...………..LL

I am the managing partner of a CPA firm. Let me make some comments about the EIN .

1- They are easy to obtain.
2- They can be obtained at no cost.
3- An EIN can be obtained for numerous reasons other than running a business. Unincorporated entities can and do obtain EIN’s routinely.
4- Be very care which boxes one checks on the SS-4. If the wrong boxes are checked, one will develop an intimate relationship with the IRS.
5- Above all, do not lead the IRS to believe that the application is for a new business. There are “other” boxes. Use them.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am the managing partner of a CPA firm. Let me make some comments about the EIN .

1- They are easy to obtain.
2- They can be obtained at no cost.
3- An EIN can be obtained for numerous reasons other than running a business. Unincorporated entities can and do obtain EIN’s routinely.
4- Be very care which boxes one checks on the SS-4. If the wrong boxes are checked, one will develop an intimate relationship with the IRS.
5- Above all, do not lead the IRS to believe that the application is for a new business. There are “other” boxes. Use them.

Hey Larry,

Does it make sense to use my existing EIN if this truly becomes necessary?

Scott:

I have zero familiarity with these requirements for guns. I don’t know if there are specific requirements to have an EIN exclusively for the guns.

If there aren’t any special requirements, I might consider that.

If I am misremembering someone please correct me, but I think the rationale for suspending this last time was there was no mechanism for individuals to receive the number (for the life of me I think it is an EIN Number) to receive the State Department temporary export license.

Once you have the Number you have to apply for the Permit from the State Department. Once you have the permit the CBP folks will sign the Form 4457. I cannot figure out how you get the Number then get the permit. It is more than just getting a number. The number lets you get the permit. The permit let’s you get the Form 4457 signed. The problem no one knows how to do any of this.

I am going to call CBP tomorrow if work allows. I hope the organizations will pick up on this.

My one saving grace is I had a Form 4457 signs back in April. It does show an August 2018 date, but that should not be an issue.

Finally closed part of the circle EIN is required for EEI. EEI stands for Electronic Export Information.

If I could post the website link this would make more sense. But look at CBP Traveling Oustide the United States-Temporary Takimg Firearms, Rifle, etc.

The regulation is current.

I am trying to complete the show now.

You register through something called AES, but I have not figured that part out.

AES is not ACE which is similar. ACE absolutely requires an EIN. I have not made heads or tails about AES.

Yipes. I'm glad I got back from Zambia yesterday. This was a PITA in 2015 when I went to Azerbaijan. And I never even used the number.

For the record, the customs agents at O'Hare only looked at my 4457 upon arrival yesterday, and simply checked serial numbers.

It was the fastest and easiest transition through customs I have ever had. No looking in luggage, no disinfecting boots, nothing. Just, hope you had a good hunt, have a nice day.

Jeremy

What is clear is the AES system is not designed for Firearms, but for exporting software programs by a company. This program has been bootstrapped for Firearms.

Yo also have to be approved before you can even file.

I have figured it out short of. You and I cannot apply directly to AES/ACE. You must have a top level ACe/AES Portal Account. This requires the EIN. I am making an assumption when trying to report to AES that I am reporting as a U.S. Principle Parities in Interest ( why bc I am not a Software Developer or Authorized Agent).

Then we need to complete Filer Cetifacation which allows companies and individuals to report information needed to complete EEI. That is where the Fubar is.


You cannot complete this certification. At least not directly see above. The other way is to complete the
Letter of Intent Form which is hyperlinked to get you registered. This takes at least 3 weeks and goes partially through CBP who will contact you.

The entire damn thing is designed around exporting software.

I am completing the Letter of Intent now.

The rationale for suspension was this program was not acessable, appropriate, designed for individuals to temp. export a rifle. The program is back. And not a comma has been added.

I am not crazy, or wrong. This needs addressing yesterday by those more connected and powerful than I.

Well, I cannot complete the Letter of Intent. Why? BC it requires an EIN. That is not the worst. The program requires that you purchase software to be able to communicate with the program. I have not figured this part out yet. I also bet it is expensive.

The help line is 1-800-549-0595. No one is in due to holiday. This number is the Cenus Bureau who runs AES.

Folks, we may be able to ignore this in the immediate present and future, but not for the foreseeable future. This is the law of the land, and we are required to comply.

To get started find the US Customs Boarder Protection Traveling Outside the U?S with Rifle etc for Hunting page. It is right there. Then you just follow the links.

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Yipes. I'm glad I got back from Zambia yesterday. This was a PITA in 2015 when I went to Azerbaijan. And I never even used the number.

For the record, the customs agents at O'Hare only looked at my 4457 upon arrival yesterday, and simply checked serial numbers.

It was the fastest and easiest transition through customs I have ever had. No looking in luggage, no disinfecting boots, nothing. Just, hope you had a good hunt, have a nice day.

Jeremy

That is good to hear... I got a new 4457 3 weeks ago with no issues so I am expecting no issues at Dulles...


As the years progress I envision more bowhunting, more photo trips, more fishing trips and using camp guns....

I know we need to "fight the good fight" but I am really getting weary of all the bullshit and harassment....

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answe...m%2C-rifle%2C-gun%2C

Traveling outside of the U.S. - Temporarily taking a firearm, rifle, gun, shotgun or ammunition abroad for hunting purposes
What is the process for a traveler to temporarily take a firearm, rifle, gun, shotgun or ammunition abroad for hunting or sports-related purposes?

Current export regulations issued by the Department of State require travelers to file Electronic Export Information (EEI) for temporary export of personally owned firearms via the Automated Export System (AES) prior to departure from the United States.

When a traveler contacts CBP to register their firearm for export and reentry, CBP will:

Complete a CBP Form 4457 to ensure a problem-free return to the U.S., and provide a fact sheet about the regulation and how to comply in the interim.

If you need to complete a form 4457 in the course of your travel, please give yourself enough time to do so, 2-3 hours is a good estimate. You also have the option of registering in advance at a CBP Port of Entry. Once the CBP 4457 is completed, it can be used repeatedly for that particular firearm.

CBP advises travelers to become familiar with the import requirements of the foreign country(s) that they may be traveling through or visiting. Those countries may have restrictive laws and regulations regarding the use of firearms within their countries. For many countries that do allow the temporary importation of firearms, the CBP Form 4457 is required for entry of a U.S. owned firearm into their country. (Canada does not require it, but it does facilitate the temporary importation. Be sure to become familiar with Canada import requirements.)

If you are taking ammunition, and there is a possibility you will not use it all and would like to re-import it, your CBP Form 4457 should reflect the kind of ammunition you are departing with.

Upon returning to the U.S., the traveler will make a regular declaration regarding the personal effects and goods that they are carrying and ensure that they declare any firearms and ammunition.

To satisfy the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives requirements for the re-importation of a firearm please refer to 27 CFR 478.115(a). The ATF regulations allow for the use of the CF 4457 upon re-importation, and does not require an approved import permit (ATF-6), provided that CBP is satisfied that the firearm was previously exported from the United States and is now being returned.

To establish such proof, a bill of sale, receipt, copy of ATF Form 4473, household effects inventory, packing list, or registration on Customs Forms 4457 or 4455 may be used, if the registration form is completed prior to departure from the U.S. For military personnel, a properly executed Department of Defense Form 12521 signed by either the serviceman's commanding officer or an authorized Customs officer may be used. The acceptability of such proof is within the purview of the Customs officials at the port of entry.

If you wish to receive automatic updates to this Q&A, select "Subscribe to Updates" on the left side of this screen.

Just came through DFW without guns but they thought I had them. All the CBP guys are all over needing this...said its a new rule. I said no its old but was suspended...anyway don't assume you can walk through there without something. It may work but they are on this.

Right above posted by Bwna 338. It is no longer suspended. We need to get on top of this.

If Obama Administration can be made to suspend or delay. Why let the Trump Administration implement it?

Why isn't DSC, the NRA, SCI, RMEF, NSSF, Ducks Unlimited, etc. etc. etc. all over this for their constituents!!?? What are we paying our membership dues and other contributions for!?

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
Just came through DFW without guns but they thought I had them. All the CBP guys are all over needing this...said its a new rule. I said no its old but was suspended...anyway don't assume you can walk through there without something. It may work but they are on this.

So far all the issues seem to be with DFW.. Farbedo reported no issues at O'Hare.. Hopefully this is some asshole at DFW who doesn't like guns or hunters and it hasn't spread to other airports yet..

The CBP agents did not give me any fact sheet 3 weeks ago when they issued my 4457.. I am wondering if THEY are basically entering it the system when they issue the 4457 and then when we leave and return...

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Why isn't DSC, the NRA, SCI, RMEF, NSSF, Ducks Unlimited, etc. etc. etc. all over this for their constituents!!?? What are we paying our membership dues and other contributions for!?

I’ll check in with my contacts as soon as the hurricane passes.

Someone posted earlier that becasue of the volume going through DFW they rolled it out here first. I have no independent confirmation of that.

I went through Customs at IAH on August 5th and it was one of the easiest transitions back into the country I have had in a while. Handed them the 4457 and only wanted me to pull the gun out enough to check the serial numbers, then thanked me and I was on my way...

I have sent an e mail to the right person at the NRA.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have sent an e mail to the right person at the NRA.

thank you

quote:

I’ll check in with my contacts as soon as the hurricane passes.

quote:

I have sent an e mail to the right person at the NRA.

Thank you Larry!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have sent an e mail to the right person at the NRA.

Thank you kindly sir.

We wish the best to you in dealing with this storm, Larry. Hope all goes well.

As for the State Department, I am hoping that this new bureaucratic hurdle will not be too difficult to cross. The entire scheme needs to be revamped and simplified for sportsmen.

This sort of thing should not apply at all to hunting rifles.

Mr. Shores:

Thank you. You have more to worry about. Hopefully, others who can will also.

LHeym500, check your PM.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Why isn't DSC, the NRA, SCI, RMEF, NSSF, Ducks Unlimited, etc. etc. etc. all over this for their constituents!!?? What are we paying our membership dues and other contributions for!?

I can tell you that DSC is working on it, I’m in Moz but sent emails to our Pres and ED from the airport apprising them of the issue, also to our lobbyist. I haven’t heard anything from them but that’s understandable due to the holiday weekend.

Larry always comes through
Thanks Larry and god speed dealing with Dorian

A quick Google search yielded a page from Coppersmith's web site per the link below.

http://www.huntingtrophy.com/a...-export-of-firearms/

This appears to go back to 2015, when the AES requirement first surfaced, but it appears that Coppersmith was offering to obtain the EEI number for a $50 fee. No idea whether they are still offering this, but it would certainly be worth that to me. Watching this with interest as I have a safari booked for June of 2020 and have little interest in using camp guns.

This just in from Steve Turner at TWG:

Hi Scott

From the dealings we have with CBP – it appears it is only Dallas who is asking for it at this time. The law has always been on the books that and EIN is required but in 2015 they suspended it for hunters as the AES system is just not set up for individuals. We have not had any problems with any other departure cities and we are working with the CPB folks in Dallas or those going through the city.

If this should change will keep you posted – so long as you have you Customs Form 4457 – you should be good to go – though you may have TSA or CPB folks inspect firearms at departure.

Regards

Steve

More or less what I suspected....

From Steve Turner:

I tell you – found out it is one department at DFW (Customs Drug Enforcement) who are the ones enforcing it, rest of CPB doesn’t seem to care!

I think everyone in this thread needs to be nominated for an investigative journalist award. If we ever meet the first round is on me.

Simply too much work to call CopperSmith or the Feds today. I will and report.

This thing needs knocked in the head.

I cannot believe unless there is some memo somewhere that Dallas would have started this on its own volition. Maybe some legal beagle has recently been appointed in Dallas.

I greatly appreciate everyone’s work on this.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I think everyone in this thread needs to be nominated for an investigative journalist award. If we ever meet the first round is on me.

Simply too much work to call CopperSmith or the Feds today. I will and report.

This thing needs knocked in the head.

I cannot believe unless there is some memo somewhere that Dallas would have started this on its own volition. Maybe some legal beagle has recently been appointed in Dallas.

I greatly appreciate everyone’s work on this.

I second your comments!!!

Last thing I need to worry about a week before leaving.... Like many, I was facing this back in 2015 like many of you and could not believe it reared its ugly head again!!!

This was from 2015--

http://www.huntingtrophy.com/w...ing-for-Firearms.pdf

FAQ's regarding AES requirements for the Export of Firearms.

What is the law:
All persons who intend to travel from the United States to a foreign country with firearms
and/or ammunition for either permanent or temporary exportation are subject to federal export licensing
regulations. The export regulations for handguns, rifles, associated parts and components, and related
ammunition are found in the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). Before exporting firearms and/or
ammunition with a valid license or qualifying license exemption, the traveler or an agent acting on the traveler's
behalf, must file the Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the Automated Export System (AES).

What has changed:
Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is the government agency responsible for all goods
coming into and going out of the United States. Historically when personal effects traveled with a person, those
goods were not of much interest to the government. (Unless there were goods coming into the country valued
more than $2500.00) In 2012 the government became aware that firearms were exiting and entering the United
States as accompanied baggage of hunters and there was no record of what left and what returned. In order to
track firearms and to comply with the Department of State and the Department of Commerce regulations,
Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is now enforcing those 2012 regulations.

Why now:
The Department of Commerce has done a major overhaul of the Export Regulations and those new
regulations go into effect on May 1, 2015. CBP, the agency charged with enforcing those regulations, has begun
telling hunters that their firearms may be seized or confiscated if the rules are not followed.

What do I need to do:
In order to comply with the regulations, you must file the Electronic Export
Information in AES (Automated Export System) with CBP and receive in return an ITN (Internal Transaction
Number). That ITN shows CBP that you have filed an AES and that when you return to the United States, you
can prove that you had the gun when you left.

How do I file an AES:
There are two ways you can file in AES and obtain an ITN:
# 1 You can file the information yourself with AESDirect.gov. There is no charge to file and the website will
explain what you will need to do.
#2 You can have Coppersmith, a licensed Freight Forwarder, file the AES for you for a minimal fee. We will file
the information on your behalf, but you must supply a number of items including: A signed Export Power of
Attorney, an EIN number, and a completed questionnaire detailing your trip and your firearm’s serial number(s).
What is an EIN: The IRS assigns EIN (Employee Identification Numbers). Previously the exporter could use
their Social Security Number instead of the EIN but because of identity theft the EIN is now required. Per the
IRS.gov website, to get an EIN you must sign up as a Sole Proprietor and complete the registration. In the
comment box you should write "For AES purposes only". The process takes less than 15 minutes.

What is the cost:
You can file your own AES for no charge at www.AESDirect.gov. Or you can have
Coppersmith, a licensed freight forwarder, or another qualified third party file the AES for you. You must
provide a signed Export Power of Attorney, your EIN, and complete a questionnaire detailing your trip and the
firearms you plan to take with you. The cost to file the AES for you is $50.00