quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

I have only been twice, but never has my passport been taken and put in a plastic box. I wonder what will happen this time? Two weeks tell I leave.

Smile for the photo when you check in , if you happen to be leaving thru DFW I suspect you might get to visit with a CBP officer at the gate. And I'd bet a steak dinner yur passport is placed in the plastic box (with a tracker on it, too).
Good luck, I hope none of that happens to you.

I will let you knw sir. I am flying out of Cincinnati International Airport which is actually in N. Kentucky.

I have never had a problem with CBP. Delta baggage girl who thought she was super cop once. CBP actually aggressively ordered her to shut up and check the rifle.

I had the same experience at DFW as Karl. No being pulled aside on the way out, though they did page me to the counter (Emirates person), looked on a list, and said I was fine to board.

Upon return, I did Global Entry, had the big X and the plastic box treatment. Went through additional screening and was out the door. Very smooth actually.

I did the temporary export process prior to leaving, by the way. Mentioned that to the CBP person and got a noncommittal grunt.

So now they are not asking for the AES permit at DFW?

Did not come up, at least for me. I had the number handy if they asked, but no one did.

quote:

Originally posted by Custom:
So now they are not asking for the AES permit at DFW?

I don't know what the AES permit is? Is it different from EEI?

All I have is a recently issued 4457 - is that still sufficient?

quote:

Originally posted by swoobie:

quote:

Originally posted by Custom:
So now they are not asking for the AES permit at DFW?

I don't know what the AES permit is? Is it different from EEI?

All I have is a recently issued 4457 - is that still sufficient?

ARS stands for Automated Export System. EEI is the system really procedure used to comply with AES.

I went back and while there is no mention to f a suspension, CBP has removed reference to EEI and AES for traveling with firearms that I reported herein earlier.

The current statement is temporary export requires compliance with the Federal Regulation. However, it has stated though are exempt from permit if you can show you are bringing the same rifle back. It then describes the Old Form 4457 process we have been doing for decades.

Things are changing. Others more knowledgeable then I have stated on this thread a permanent, fundamental change to how we travel with firearms is coming. Keep your eyes open and ear to the ground.

This issue has arisen again, two friends arrived at DFW late Thursday evening, arriving from a hunting trip in Spain. They presented their 4457's as they have done in the past and the CBP officer (I was told he was very young and had sort of an attitude)stated they needed another form. When asked which form, the officer didn't give them a form name or number and said they should know and that he could impound their guns until they got the proper form. One gun case held a matched pair of H & H shotguns and the other held a pair of 20 ga Purdey shotguns, the couple live in another state so this could create quite a problem. Another, older, CBP officer came over and told them to just have the proper form next time and let them leave.
This was reported to the Chief LE Officer at CBP yesterday but have no idea whatif any, action might be taken.
Also heard of another hunter having the same issue last Tuesday. It looks like it's only going to get harder to carry firearms abroad.

If there is a freaking rule it should be express and everywhere, not at the whims of individual officers. It is past time that this was clarified...and preferably reversed as it makes no sense for sport hunting.

Being worked on, but it’s the government. Everyone has to cover their butt, hopefully at least a definitive explanation of exactly what they require pretty soon.

Thank you sir.

Just got back Tuesday from Romania. Flew Dfw to Philadelphia to Budapest. We had EEI # but nobody asked for it. We went thru customs in Philadelphia. AA employee brought our guns to us and took us to customs and the customs agent thanked us for having all the correct paperwork. All we showed was our 4457’s. No X on our customs paperwork. AA employee then wheeled our guns to TSA and said have a nice day. It was a breeze in Philadelphia. Randy

quote:

Originally posted by Randy Brewer:
Just got back Tuesday from Romania. Flew Dfw to Philadelphia to Budapest. We had EEI # but nobody asked for it. We went thru customs in Philadelphia. AA employee brought our guns to us and took us to customs and the customs agent thanked us for having all the correct paperwork. All we showed was our 4457’s. No X on our customs paperwork. AA employee then wheeled our guns to TSA and said have a nice day. It was a breeze in Philadelphia. Randy

Not surprised one bit, no consistency between locations/officers.

That’s typical of anything the government does.....

I will state this in my full hunt report. I had no issues with the standard, older practice, of simply having a signed and stamped Form 4457 on my way out of N.KY/Cincinnati Airport or in ATL.

My firearm and my wife's checked bag were not placed on any of our flights coming or going. They were one day behind us once we got to Charles Da Gaulle. Delta was very helpful with locating and getting them to us. The inconvenience was still nightmarish given I too live 4 hours away from the N.KY/Cincinnati airport.

The Customs guys at both airports were friendly and professional. Everyone wanted to see pictures. We just wanted to get home.

I did not have to place my Passport into any holding container or get called to the side anywhere.

I also did not have anyone ask for a copy of the Form 4457. In the past this has happened.

The fact is this process is coming. Fine, just make a program we can comply with. it is obvious DFW has been chosen as a pilot program for whatever this Administration is going to make as the required process.

Headed back over in two weeks to Romania and then Turkey. As always - departing from Dulles. I will report back how it goes but I expect no different than it was in September..

Seems to me the problem is limited to DFW. The customs guys at Dulles said there are no changes that they have been notified of and no “pilot” programs.

I think you all have anti-gun / anti-hunters invading CBP at DFW..

Is Texas gonna end up being the next CA???? Scary...

quote:

Seems to me the problem is limited to DFW. The customs guys at Dulles said there are no changes that they have been notified of and no “pilot” programs.

I believe you are correct, at least at the present time. Have spoken to the Chiefs of two CBP offices, New York and Seattle, and they are ubaware of this requirement. Not to say they won't institute the procedure at some later date, but not right now.
Worth mentoning that the Chief at DFW declined to even talk about this.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Seems to me the problem is limited to DFW. The customs guys at Dulles said there are no changes that they have been notified of and no “pilot” programs.

I believe you are correct, at least at the present time. Have spoken to the Chiefs of two CBP offices, New York and Seattle, and they are ubaware of this requirement. Not to say they won't institute the procedure at some later date, but not right now.
Worth mentoning that the Chief at DFW declined to even talk about this.

Considering this appears limited to DFW, which is the most convenient airport for me, my suggestion is to give Emirates a serious look as an alternative and drive to Houston. My safari this past June/July was my first experience with Emirates and departing Houston and I have to say, the lack of hassle and professional service was worth the extra drive.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/n...international-travel



CBP Advises Hunters Planning International Travel

Release Date: November 18, 2019

WASHINGTON—Many hunters enjoy traveling to international destinations, but before heading on that international hunting trip, there are certain requirements hunters must first satisfy.

“When planning your trip, it is important to remember that regulations change frequently around the world, depending on outbreaks of exotic plant and animal diseases,” said Steve Ehrlich, Branch Chief of CBP’s Travel and Tourism Initiative. “It is the traveler’s responsibility to be aware of these regulations in order to ensure their trip goes smoothly.”

Hunters who plan to travel with their licensed firearms must obtain a Customs and Border Protection Form 4457, Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad. This form provides the traveler with a document that lists articles that will be taken out of the country so they won’t be charged duties on these items upon return to the United States. This form is in addition to any import, export, or sportsman’s licenses that may be required in the destination country.

“This form allows a CBP officer to verify that the traveler has that property in their possession while they’re exiting the United States,” Ehrlich explained.

Additionally, hunters must ensure that their firearms are properly licensed for export, according to Department of Commerce and Department of State rules.

“The Department of Commerce's Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) has jurisdiction over shotguns with a barrel length of 18 inches or more and related components,” explained Ehrlich. “BIS also has jurisdiction over muzzle-loading rifles and handguns, air guns, replica firearms, shotgun shells and components, and most optical sighting devices for firearms.”

Rifles and shotguns with a barrel less than 18 inches are the jurisdiction of the Department of State’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), which has jurisdiction over defense articles and services. Further information on traveling with firearms can be found on the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement website.

Should the hunter bag the desired game, hunters should contact their local Port of Entry prior to returning home for information on processing the animal and the availability of necessary inspectors.

“Travelers are responsible for declaring their items and presenting them for inspection upon returning to the United States,” Ehrlich explained. “All agriculture-related products must be declared when entering the United States to include animal hunting trophies, game animal carcasses, and hides."

Because animal hunting trophies, game animal carcasses, and hides are severely restricted by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the U.S. Department of the Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), it is also up to the hunter to learn which animals can be hunted and brought back to the United States. Hunters should visit the CBP website for information on what agricultural products can be brought into the United States.

For further information on how to bring your hunting trophies back to the United States, email the National Center for Import and Export at AskNCIE.Products@aphis.usda.gov or call (301) 851-3300.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection is the unified border agency within the Department of Homeland Security charged with the management, control and protection of our nation's borders at and between official ports of entry. CBP is charged with securing the borders of the United States while enforcing hundreds of laws and facilitating lawful trade and travel.

My son and I did a Newfoundland moose hunt in mid October. All the paperwork was form filled and printed except for the moose export paper and it was neatly hand written. The 4457s were done in Newport News (son) and Lubec, Maine (me).

Canada did not look at the guns, just signed the paperwork for the Temporary Import Permit. They only cared about fruits and veggies.

On the way back, US customs did not check the guns, did not look at the 4457s, did not look at the moose paperwork. They only cared about fruits, veggies and soil.

I had been told about the fruit and veggie thing, so we had none. Kinda strange about ignoring the guns.

Well that article certainly clears things up! (no offense to you Kathi)

Doesn’t even mention the standard hunting rifle—rifle with barrel longer than 18”!

“The most feared words in USA are: I am from the government and I am here to help” — Ronald Reagan

quote:

Additionally, hunters must ensure that their firearms are properly licensed for export, according to Department of Commerce and Department of State rules.

Meaning? Still in the dark...

I am surprised no one has given SCI credit for this great expose on the issue at hand emailed yesterday:
delete.jpg

Member Alert
Firearms Export Alert – Use of Form 4457 for Temporary Firearms Export!

All SCI members who plan to travel with their firearms outside of the U.S. should be aware that there has been some recent confusion about U.S. Customs and Border Patrol's (CBP) willingness to accept Form 4457 for the temporary export of firearms. Although the CBP website continues to state that CBP will accept Form 4457 for temporary export and re-import of firearms/ammunition, the website hosted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) states that Form 4457 may no longer be used for that purpose. https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq#wcm-survey-target-id

SCI has heard reports that CBP officials at some ports are refusing to accept Form 4457 when hunters/shooters attempt to use them upon returning with their firearms/ammunition to the United States.

SCI members who encounter this problem should respectfully inform the CBP agents that CBP does accept Form 4457 for this purpose. If necessary, SCI members can provide the CBP agent with the following language from the CBP website:



CBPpageimage.png?r=1574089894733





https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-...and-restricted-items



If providing language directly from the CBP website does not suffice, SCI members are advised by CBP to request to talk to the agent's supervisor and if that is insufficient to immediately contact CBP Program Manager, David Garcia, whose telephone number is 202-344-3277. If Mr. Garcia does not answer his phone, callers are instructed to contact him by email at david.uscs.garcia@cbp.dhs.gov.

SCI members should also be aware that the CBP has posted a new, downloadable Form 4457 on their website with an expiration date of 9/30/2022. For those who have encountered problems abroad with using a Form 4457 with no expiration date or with an expired expiration date, this new form may alleviate those obstacles.

In 2015, SCI, together with several other hunting and recreational shooting organizations, fought CBP's efforts to require those traveling with firearms/ammunition to use AESDirect, an electronic registration system. In response, CBP agreed to suspend their plans to abandon the use of Form 4457. Last year, CBP proposed new regulations concerning the export of firearms and SCI emphatically commented in support of the continued use of Form 4457 and in opposition to conversion to the AESDirect system.

SCI will continue to work, together with other hunting and recreational shooting organizations, to advocate for the suspension of the electronic registration system requirement and continued utilization of Form 4457.

Here is online link to same email-

https://contentsharing.net/act...XZZqrfwY3PUwJsyVz9fX

Looks pretty clear to me and consistent with comments above....

Cheers,

Good job, SCI.

Well I did talk to the supervisor, but I will try again before the next trip.

What do you do when the plane is at the gate, he Supervisor says no, and thhen Mr. Garcia does not answer his phone or email?

I am not trying to be a jerk, but that is not a solution for what is going on in Dallas. This is going to require regulatory or statutory intervention to straighten out.

I do appreciate their attempt to be helpful.

I can say what is going on in Dallas is not happening in Atlanta, NKY/Cinn, and JFK because I have been through the first two and an associate has been through JFK.

I do believe it is coming.

With all due respect, sir...if you know the issues it would be proper to call Mr. Garcia and open his eyes and send him a copy of the SCI document!! Several calls from all in Dallas knowing the issues would be even better!!
I will be carrying the document with me as suggested on my next trip.
Cheers,

With all due respect. I have been asked to not divulge all. I have said as much on this thread as I am at liberty to discuss. Others will feel in the blanks as information becomes available.

But look at it more generally instructions to call Person X are of little use when the plane you are to be on is at the gate and the Government supervisor is at lunch.

I will contact Mr. Garcia and report back here.

It sure won't help to bury the facts and information from those who can assist in resolving this...
Why not tell all to SCI Counsel, and if you have a Republican Legislator, bear all to him/her...facts and data, evidence and issues will hopefully focus on resolving the problem...
If we sit quietly...it probably will get worse!!

I am not burying anything. But if one thinks a Government employee is going to answer the phone when you have to over ride the local supervisor now, that person has not had a lot of dealings getting government officials to do their job. They will, eventually.

I will call Mr. Garcia and report what he tells me. I bet I will get a call back next week. Also, I have done what you say. You know 90 percent of what I know.

Please note that others have reported on this thread that they have spoken to on sight CBP supervisor and reported, “You can go this time, but changes are coming.”

I stand by my observations and what I have said in this thread. SCI position does not change mine.

I thank them for their efforts. But what they have suggested is not a solution. I can’t help if that upsets you.

Take Care. If you wish to adress me further about SCI’s response, please do so in a PM. I will give you my phone number. I ask this bc we are no longer exchanging information on the issue, but yelping about SCI which I do not enjoy.

quote:

Several calls from all in Dallas knowing the issues would be even better!

Several calls from those in Dallas have been made, not real productive. I agree with others who have reported that mire/expanded procedures are forthcoming, I believe I posted earlier that I was advised by a CBP supervisor that the program will be expanded nationwide and no one at CBP has denied (however several have said they knew nothing about the program)that statement. I suspect it will be implemented and that CBP isn’t really concerned about the inconvenience might cause the relatively small number of hunters whom travel internationally with firearms. Same goes for our elected representatives.

That is why we need our orgs apply pressure similarly to how NRA does when undesirable gun regulations are proposed domestically. Even the NRA should be investigating this occurrence.