Apology to Muchinga Adventures

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19 August 2015, 12:58

Frostbit

I'm not going to spend the time to look for Andrew's post about "nine Lions" on quota but I do admit I spent a little time looking.

I tore the scab off some old wounds many of us remember and those that don't ought to read this whole thread.

Aaron. I consider you a friend and you have been nothing but supportive and seemingly appreciative of having spent time hunting with my wife. I don't dredge this crap up lightly.

quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Folks, the facts are this.

1. Lion Hunting is currently under more pressure in Africa, than any specie in the past 20 years.

2. Without lion hunting, many TZ & Zambia outfitters would struggle mightly to survive. This of course, would have a huge impact on the future of all hunting in these countries. Without the revenue generated from legal lion hunting, many of the companies would not be able to continue to provide money to the communities, fight poaching, etc, etc.

3. The lion shot was 2-3 yrs old, period! It was a conscious decision, made to satisfy the hunter's desire to "get one". Pathetic and disgraceful.

4. Muchinga Adventures was getting 9 lion on quota is their two areas, now it has been reduced to 4. They of course are suing ZAWA, hopefully ZAWA wins this one!!!

5. "WILL", I'll ask you the same question I asked another guy a few weeks ago. Have you ever done this before???

6. I have hunted lions many times, and will continue to do so, any chance I get. In fact I am hunting one in CAR starting next week. If I find an old/mature lion, regardless of his mane, I will surely shoot him. If I don't, I won't, its that simple.

7. My #1 concern is for the lion, the lion's future in Africa, and the continued necessity for legal lion hunting. In the past 2 months, Dr. Lane Easter & I, have spent countless hours on the newly formed LION CONSERVATION TASK FORCE. We have included EVERY SINGLE leading scientist in the world, as it pertains to the African LION! We have not had one yet, that says legal/ethical and properly managed LION HUNTING, is NOT vitally necessary to the continued survival of the lion, and Africa's wildlife as a whole!

Guys, do the lion and the rest of the African Wildlife a favor. Please be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

I spent the time reading through this whole thread. I took a lot of flack myself because I was in camp at the same time this Lion was taken.

I did not have clue at that time about Lion hunting, the "definition of a hunt able Lion", or where we would all be today.

But when I re-read this thread I'm linking to now, I suggest you all read the whole thing. It was 2010 - 2011 and look who said what then and what is acceptable now.

Thread 2010

Cheers
Jim

19 August 2015, 15:44

Saeed

It looks to me that that they are out to make a quick buck!

By shooting as many lions as they can, regardless of their age!!

How big is this concession that can support they taking of so many lions??

19 August 2015, 17:27

Opus1

Nothing in Africa happens without government approval.

Behind every crooked operation is a government "official" pulling the strings.

TIA

19 August 2015, 17:54

Bwana Bunduki

This demand for an apology is blowing up in their face. Next they will be demanding a retraction of the apology.

Jeff

19 August 2015, 18:45

Lhook7

Is this the one you are trying to find?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...201024761#3201024761

19 August 2015, 20:29

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
This demand for an apology is blowing up in their face. Next they will be demanding a retraction of the apology.

Jeff

Jeff,

Stupid people do stupid things, as illustrated perfectly in this example!

20 August 2015, 00:03

MJines

So if it was so stupid, why did Andrew apologize?

20 August 2015, 05:54

cow-trader

That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

20 August 2015, 05:59

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

Isn't the Internet great . . . you can slander folks and hide behind a pseudonym and a dummy location. Brave fellow.

20 August 2015, 06:11

cow-trader

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

Isn't the Internet great . . . you can slander folks and hide behind a pseudonym and a dummy location. Brave fellow.

I am afraid of getting notarized! Aren't you???

But at least I don't shoot 2 year old cub lions and the DuPlooys do. Facts are facts.

20 August 2015, 06:18

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

Isn't the Internet great . . . you can slander folks and hide behind a pseudonym and a dummy location. Brave fellow.

But at least I don't shoot 2 year old cub lions and the DuPlooys do.

Yes, you obviously are very familiar with pussy [cats] . . . being one. What is it about some of the folks in Zim that feel like they need to dump on other outfitters while wearing a mask? Not what I have come to expect from Zimbos who are generally stand up folks.

20 August 2015, 06:27

cow-trader

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

Isn't the Internet great . . . you can slander folks and hide behind a pseudonym and a dummy location. Brave fellow.

But at least I don't shoot 2 year old cub lions and the DuPlooys do.

Yes, you obviously are very familiar with pussy [cats] . . . being one. What is it about some of the folks in Zim that feel like they need to dump on other outfitters while wearing a mask? Not what I have come to expect from Zimbos who are generally stand up folks.

I guess you are what you eat for sure.

But I still don't guide kids to shoot cub lions for trophies.

20 August 2015, 06:30

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

Isn't the Internet great . . . you can slander folks and hide behind a pseudonym and a dummy location. Brave fellow.

But at least I don't shoot 2 year old cub lions and the DuPlooys do.

Yes, you obviously are very familiar with pussy [cats] . . . being one. What is it about some of the folks in Zim that feel like they need to dump on other outfitters while wearing a mask? Not what I have come to expect from Zimbos who are generally stand up folks.

I guess you are what you eat for sure.

But I still don't guide kids to shoot cub lions for trophies.

Please turn in your man card.

20 August 2015, 07:03

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

The duPlooy's are some of the finest people I've met in the International Hunting business. They have given me 110% value for my hunting dollar. They do not deserve this.

They are not the kind of people who would dignify this chicken shit lynching with a reply.

I know many, many posters, booking agents on AR who have enjoyed AND profited from the relationship with this fine family.

Sitting on ones hands when a friend is being besmirched and their character questioned embarrasses me to read this.

As you were.

Steve

20 August 2015, 07:39

Greg Brownlee

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

The duPlooy's are some of the finest people I've met in the International Hunting business. They have given me 110% value for my hunting dollar. They do not deserve this.

They are not the kind of people who would dignify this chicken shit lynching with a reply.

I know many, many posters, booking agents on AR who have enjoyed AND profited from the relationship with this fine family.

Sitting on ones hands when a friend is being besmirched and their character questioned embarrasses me to read this.

As you were.

Steve

Well said, Steve. The DuPlooy's are absolutely wonderful people and don't deserve this BS.

20 August 2015, 08:14

Larry Sellers

Gregg - Agree with your assessment of the DuPlooys, but you must remember. To some here on AR the "facts" simply don't matter when there is a chance for a "lynch mob" to gather.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:
Originally posted by Greg Brownlee:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by cow-trader:
That Family (Du Plooy) and Company (Muchinga) are a scourge to Zambian Wildlife.

But I sure hope Baldry does not get "notarized"!!!

The duPlooy's are some of the finest people I've met in the International Hunting business. They have given me 110% value for my hunting dollar. They do not deserve this.

They are not the kind of people who would dignify this chicken shit lynching with a reply.

I know many, many posters, booking agents on AR who have enjoyed AND profited from the relationship with this fine family.

Sitting on ones hands when a friend is being besmirched and their character questioned embarrasses me to read this.

As you were.

Steve

Well said, Steve. The DuPlooy's are absolutely wonderful people and don't deserve this BS.

20 August 2015, 09:43

Saeed

Andrew was threatened with legal action because he gave number for the lions they are shooting.

Would not have been much easier for them to state the right number of lions, instead of threats??

May be the number Andrew stated was correct?
May be they do not wish to let anyone knows what the numbers are?

The client who shot that lion was NOT at fault!
The fault lies with the PH and outfit he was hunting with.

I have seen lions we did not shoot - that was before the 6 year rule came into effect - being shot next door a few weeks later.

On these occasions, it was entirely up to the PH. And mine thought they were too young to shoot.

20 August 2015, 18:04

MJines

Question remains, if Andrew was right and they were wrong, why publicly apologize? He seems to be a fairly opinionated fellow, surely if was in the right he would stand his ground would he not?

20 August 2015, 21:19

cow-trader

All sniping and humor aside...here are "some" of the "known" facts.

Abie DuPlooy of Muchinga guided a boy to shoot a 2 yr old (3 at max given a huge benefit of doubt) lion as a trophy.

That in itself...justifies all of my comments.

20 August 2015, 22:11

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Question remains, if Andrew was right and they were wrong, why publicly apologize? He seems to be a fairly opinionated fellow, surely if was in the right he would stand his ground would he not?

I think the answer to your question about whether or not Andrew is/was right is, yes and no. As I recall Muchinga originally had 9 lion on quota, but that was numerous years ago, certainly no longer. But back then plenty of blocks were getting 4 lion per year on quota, and 1 or 2 got 5 per year as I recall? I don't think they were necessarily getting any more lions on quota per block than were most others. That's how I remember it, but it has been a few years - I hope my info here is fairly accurate?

I am sure if in fact lion hunting totally re-opens in Zambia in 2016, they will not have such a quota. More like 1-2 lions per block, which is likely more reasonable for most places I would guess?

20 August 2015, 22:29

Trapper Tom

I was in lower lupande in 05. They had 5 then. I think in 06 it was lowered to 4

21 August 2015, 09:40

Saeed

So, if I understand it correctly, Andrew WAS right that they had 9 lions??!!

21 August 2015, 10:17

crbutler

I also have had nothing but good from Johnny and Laura DuPlooy.

I also had an unsuccessful lion hunt with them back before this whole issue of don't shoot young ones became popular. I guess I didn't get the memo about shooting young ones... I saw male cubs but no one made any thought about shooting one just to get a lion down.

I like this site, but really there is a bit too much kangaroo court in session around here at times.

As Steve said, carry on....

21 August 2015, 16:33

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I also have had nothing but good from Johnny and Laura DuPlooy.

I also had an unsuccessful lion hunt with them back before this whole issue of don't shoot young ones became popular. I guess I didn't get the memo about shooting young ones... I saw male cubs but no one made any thought about shooting one just to get a lion down.

I like this site, but really there is a bit too much kangaroo court in session around here at times.

As Steve said, carry on....

Everyone is welcome to state his opinion, there is no kangaroo court here, neither is here any censorship.

This whole thing came about because Andrew was forced to apologize for something he had said.

It turns out what he said was actually true - at least that is how I understand it, and if not, I wish someone will give us the whole story.

21 August 2015, 17:55

MJines

Keep trying to put lipstick on it . . . the fact is that they called him out and he issued a public apology. So his conviction on the issue is obviously not as strong as you might suggest.

21 August 2015, 18:22

Bwana Bunduki

We have all messed up an said things we wished we had not and subsequently had to take back.

In my case it was: "I do...."

Just sayin...

Jeff

21 August 2015, 18:37

Jefffive

I'll bet my favorite testicle Andrew believed it to be true when he said it.

21 August 2015, 21:24

crbutler

Saeed, this is an example of a kangaroo court...

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Were they not the same outfit that shot a very young lion a while back??

Personally, I will put these lot on my own black list of never to hunt with.

May be AR should take legal action against them for getting their bloody facts wrong too?

What a bunch of bloody losers!

And they actually talk about FACTS??

And they cannot get their own FACTS right??

We have been discussing what a client should look for when checking who to hunt with.

Here is a perfect example of those who to avoid at any cost!

You admit that you don't have the facts later on, yet you made this statement.

How much do think, as an example, Roy Vincent, shot under 5 year old lion many years ago?

Did he do anything wrong?

Did Muchinga shoot lion that are now thought to be illegal or unethical in the past? I am sure it happened. But the science of lion populations has advanced quite a bit over the years.

You yourself have said, "If it is legal, do it and apologize to no one!"

While I may not agree that sticking your local lawyer on someone is the move I would make, who is to say that this is the first way it was attempted to be handled?

I agree that there should be no censorship, but some folks push the line to statements that are a bit hyperbolic and then others with no knowledge pile on. (Remember the comments on how you could change Emirates policy...)

Did Abie have a client who shot an immature lion? Yep. Does any one here know all the details? No. Was it illegal at the time? No. Was it a black eye for lion hunting? In my opinion, absolutely.

But is Abie an owner of Muchinga? No.

We seem to have gotten afield of a simple statement of what the quota on lion was and when...