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Originally posted by martin pieters:
Russ where did you get that information as operators on the ground know nothing of this ?

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Nice first post Ru... I mean Skipper.

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The Chimps are people like R. Jolly who sit on the sidelines throwing shit at the board. They are attracted to every controversial post. When one of them starts shrieking, the others swarm to that post to join the chorus.

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Originally posted by larryshores:
Interesting first post.

What does last years issues have to do with this years? None. Africa is what it is. Only the blind would not realize that Africa governments can change things whenever they want. Of course, we, the paying clients , can choose to go or not go to these countries . Personally, I have decided against TZ given the debacles of 06& 07.

Will the Zim govt change prices? I have no idea. They could change just like every other
African country can change prices with no notice.

My only problem with Russ's post is the caution against a specific country when every country could do the same thing .

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:

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Nice first post Ru... I mean Skipper.

eeeeeaahhhh...

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Originally posted by larryshores:
Interesting first post.

What does last years issues have to do with this years? None. Africa is what it is. Only the blind would not realize that Africa governments can change things whenever they want. Of course, we, the paying clients , can choose to go or not go to these countries . Personally, I have decided against TZ given the debacles of 06& 07.

Will the Zim govt change prices? I have no idea. They could change just like every other
African country can change prices with no notice.

My only problem with Russ's post is the caution against a specific country when every country could do the same thing .

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Originally posted by R.Jolly:

Do you think we should ask for permission to write about it on here afterwards? Mind you could always just make something up.

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Originally posted by Inn skipper:

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Originally posted by larryshores:
Interesting first post.

What does last years issues have to do with this years? None. Africa is what it is. Only the blind would not realize that Africa governments can change things whenever they want. Of course, we, the paying clients , can choose to go or not go to these countries . Personally, I have decided against TZ given the debacles of 06& 07.

Will the Zim govt change prices? I have no idea. They could change just like every other
African country can change prices with no notice.

My only problem with Russ's post is the caution against a specific country when every country could do the same thing .

Ah, my good friend Mr. Shores has asked some responsible questions. For those of you who have not had the opportunity to meet Mr. Shores in person, he is a brilliant individual, possessing gentlemanly and benevolent traits among his many outstanding attributes. I feel privileged to belong to the same club, fraternity of men if you will, as Mr. Shores. In so much, I feel compelled to answer his questions and as a gentleman, he deserves the response. His contributions to this forum, and frankly to the world, are significant. Mr. Jolly's contributions are also worthy of notating, just not nearly as significant, so I will not expend my valuable time to respond to his silliness.


Last years issues with the Zimbabwe Government and Parks Commission's designed decision to raise trophy and other fees related to both hunting and photographic safari's while the major operators were out of the country attending SCI has everything to do with the supposed rumor that they are once again doing so now. I, and others, are of the informed opinion that Parks will wait this time to raise the rates until after the International Convention has ran its course and all the safaris are booked and confirmed. Solid business practice if you will as the monkeys who make up the Zimbabwe Government and Parks Board have learned from the last unsuccessful rise in levies that more than a few prospective safari clients leaned against signing safari contracts upon learning the "news" of the tariff increases and many of the PH/Operators had to rally to fill quotas, leaving many unfilled, leading to a loss of revenue for Parks operations, and of course the operators themselves. Thus the reason to keep this "news" on the "down/low" until after the convention. It is quite possible the monkeys did not come up with this idea of their own accord, and indeed had input and assistance with the timing for the future. Individuals can decide for themselves where this additional input may have come from.

Is Africa what it is? The unquestionable answer is yes. Mr. Shores is quite correct on this. The internal conflicts and corruption among African Governments and the Authorities who have seized power at the very top in every African Country is beyond comprehension for normal individuals. The total comprehension by the very people in the business of "selling" safaris is very real and up to date. The informed and experienced traveler, such as Mr. Shores, understands this and is fully prepared for mitigating circumstance's and rapidly changing political climates. Of course, not all people wanting to fulfill their African Dream Hunt are as knowledgeable or prepared as individuals such as Mr. Shores. Are they blind....no. Just uninformed, although perhaps blindly following the sales pitch of the gallant and [totally ethical] professional hunter and his affiliation. If any one believes that the Dave Fulsom's, Myles McCallums, Martin Pieters and the respectable staff of Mr. Whittall of this world are telling everything they know, then they truly are "chumps" as Mr. Canby suggests. I believe this is where my "first" post turns controversial. I am merely suggesting that the PH's, Operators and Booking Agents have a responsibility to duly and emphatically inform every prospective client that a substantial rise in fees may occur, prior to signing a contract. If this is controversial, I apologize to any detractors.

Do we as Paying Clients have the choice to go to Zimbabwe or any other African Country. This is absurdly correct. Of course we can decide yes or no. And our decisions are based upon the information we are given by the people who have designed and projected their image of trust worthiness. At this time I feel compelled to address an equally important assentation: Are the PH's/Operators and Booking Agents in question truly trust worthy and are they shedding light and sharing all the proper and pertinent information with the prospective clients on all the known truths and current belief's about their industry? I can assure you, on all of the various African Safari's I have conducted, many items worthy of initial discussion prior to signing a Safari Contract were not brought up and openly discussed by the operating party. And I might add, every Safari Contract I have ever seen is inconspicuously "one-sided". Obviously I am migrating to the polite discourse of my opinion on this subject. Once again boys, business is business and it is all about money, your money. I am not saying I blame the PH/Operator/Booking Agent emphatically, they do have a job to perform, families to provide for and bills to pay. The client does have the right to ask the question......if they know what the question is. Does this bring the PH/Operator/Booking Agent to used car salesman level? Yours to determine.

Mr. Shores also asked the question of will the Zimbabwe Government raise the fees. The short un-adulterated truth is yes. If not now, soon, as will all other countries still offering sport hunting and other tourist activities in Africa. Political Money Grabbing will be ever as consistent as it has been in the past. Supply and Demand will also determine this, and as the supply is dwindling the demand is rising. This can be justifiably argumented with the recent closure of Nyagasaki Safari area, leaving now only two areas open for competitive bidding among the myriad of professional hunters vying for a location to bring their contracted and paid clientele. Thus creating an absolute confirmation for Mr. Shores somewhat rhetorical question.

Mr. Shores next response puts me at odds with his analysis of Mr. Canby's topic. Perhaps the usually reflective Mr. Shores did not allow himself ample time to profoundly contemplate Mr. Canby's repose. Not to worry, Mr. Shores, you are still in good stead with me. One mistake in repose does not a Mr. Jolly make.

To emphasize, Mr. Canby's post clearly indicated that he had received reliable information from operators inside Zimbabwe, not Tanzania, Mozambique, Zambia or elsewhere in Africa or the World for that matter.
Mr. Canby, simply stated, did not have information to extend for other countries. Had he other information I would hope that as a conscientious individual he would expose that information also. Please be advised that the worst thing to do is nothing at all.
Perhaps the eloquent Mr. Canby should have worded his post with more caution. But alas, I digress, per his own admission this is not how Mr. Canby does things. Each to their own I suppose.

I truly hope this brings satisfaction to Mr. Shores questions and the debates raging inside the minds of others who have read thru this contributing debate. On the brighter side of this, perhaps more Safari Seekers will have considered the questions they should now posses to ask the organization and individuals they are considering handing over their hard earned money to. And, perhaps, a few of the operators and booking agents have found a shred of empathy remaining and tell the whole truth, and not simply stating snippets and denials of their current knowledge to reel in customers.

And, if, my "2nd" post does not sufficiently define my reasoning to address this topic please do not hesitate to re-address any questionable information contained herein

My many thanks to Saaed for his tremendous contributions

Yours truly, as always

Inn Skipper

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Remember the time you sold one member a rifle and another member a rifle case? Sure you do, you shipped the rifle in the case to the member who bought the rifle and them had him ship the case to the guy who bought it. The case showed up damaged and you took no responsibility for it.

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Oh yeah, remember the time when you, being a big time booking agent and expert on all things Africa, tried to fly from Canada to Zimbabwe with firearms? Sure you do, you came on here raising hell about how the airline had screwed you until it was pointed out to you that there is a weapons embargo between those countries.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, may be its time to have an agreement that states if there IS any significant increase in charges from the government, the client gets FULL refund if he cancels his hunt?

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

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Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, may be its time to have an agreement that states if there IS any significant increase in charges from the government, the client gets FULL refund if he cancels his hunt?

That would be penalizing the outfitter who has no control over the people in government who make these decisions without factoring the repercussion on the market especially once the marketing period is concluded.

Tanzania is a stark and sad reminder for many who were already in the field with a number of the "expensive tags" already in the salt when they were informed that TFs had gone up by a crazy %age overnight.

Yes, it was eventually adjusted to a more acceptable level but at the same time there were a number of clients who packed their bags overnight, some cancelled and others continued their hunt with a promise to battle it out in court.

The current rumored hikes for Zim should however not be taken with a pinch of salt - where there's smoke, there's fire.

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Two question for lhook7, who seems to have a problem with a post alerting others to the nuances of traveling with firearms on what looks like a tempting new route to get to HRE without going thru JNB with all that entails. That type of post, I thought, was the spirit of the travel section on the AR forums.

1. How old are you?
2. Do you have a life?

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Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Ouch...

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:

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Remember the time you sold one member a rifle and another member a rifle case? Sure you do, you shipped the rifle in the case to the member who bought the rifle and them had him ship the case to the guy who bought it. The case showed up damaged and you took no responsibility for it.

Actually it was a case for a pair of shotguns, the lining had some damage before it left here and that was clearly stated in the description of the item. The "member" (good choice of words)could have returned the case, for any reason or no reason, but he chose not to. He kept it and completely gutted it, which was his plan all along, making the condition of the lining moot. And I sold nobody a pair of shotguns, nor a rifle.

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Oh yeah, remember the time when you, being a big time booking agent and expert on all things Africa, tried to fly from Canada to Zimbabwe with firearms? Sure you do, you came on here raising hell about how the airline had screwed you until it was pointed out to you that there is a weapons embargo between those countries.

Actually I was flying from Portland OR to Harare Zim and the problem was that United Airlines had no baggage agreement for firearms with Ethiopian Airlines, since it was a new partnership/route. Had nothing to do with embargos.

So those two turds missed their mark. Keep throwing, and add a howl or two, that may improve your aim.

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Yes, it's true when I shipped the case, I shipped it via a customer in CA who bought the pair of WR guns from me.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, may be its time to have an agreement that states if there IS any significant increase in charges from the government, the client gets FULL refund if he cancels his hunt?

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Originally posted by Frostbit:

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Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Ouch...

Could have been worse!! Lhook could have done a BTT to that necro-thread and brought it back to life in the Double Rifle forum.