For those thinking of booking a 2014 hunt in Zim, I advise that you wait. There is a very strong rumor that Parks is going to jack up the trophy fees again, by as much as 100%, and it may retroactively impact the 2014 season. Remember Tanzania?

If they do, it's back to Moz for me.

They'll screw themselves - I'd guess. It'll be just as cheap to hunt Moz or Tanz - or at least close enough that a bunch of potential hunters would head that way. A poor guy like me is getting quickly priced out of this game. I'm going to invest in a pair of knitting needles and take up sitting in the rocker on my porch making afgans!

Must not be making enough on the National Park hunts.

If true, greed is a terrible thing. . . . .

Russ where did you get that information as operators on the ground know nothing of this ?

I'm headed to Burkina Faso instead. Leaving in 10 days

quote:

Russ where did you get that information as operators on the ground know nothing of this ?

from two zim phs in a two separate private emails ... you must be traveling martin

Great timing for a rumor, the day before the SCI convention. These Parks guys really have to take a marketing course.

Don't dismiss the possibility that this is a marketing move by outfitters or booking agents that might stand to benefit from starting a rumor detrimental to Zim outfitters on the eve of SCI. Call me a cynic.

Sorry guys i do not buy this.

Russ please can you send me a PM of the PHs/Operators that you have been in contact with as i have met many PHs and operators here in Vagas today from Zimbabwe without a mention of your concern.

Much appreciated

no need for PM ... the rumors came from emails from Dirk Fourie and Terry Anders. Terry is at SCI ... go talk to him. I don't see how either of these gents can benefit by making up a non-existent rumor. They are PHs just like the rest of you. I can however see why the rest of you might want to keep it quiet.

I have no idea if it is true or not. However, it makes a certain amount of sense . Botswana is closed. Zambia is partially closed. Questions about security in Mozambique.

Supply and demand .

Hopefully just a rumor.

But resource nationalism be it in something largely irrelevant (on a global economic scale) like Zim government hunting fees or relevant on global scale like Indonesia and Mongolia government policies on copper mining in my opinion always rears it head when things are about to turn South for the sector.

The Zim government has shown one thing for sure - it has very poor concept/grasp of any relevant government economic policy.

Look at the wholesale destruction of the Zim economy thru hyper inflation. Are these guys really smart enough to optimally tax hunting trophy fees?

These are the same geniuses who doubled or more money supply in a single day and fixed all retail prices and expected shelves to stay stocked !!!!!

They cannot see beyond the current short term - for the Zim politicians time discounting units are measured in days not years.

I think they are all focused on hunting closing everywhere and thinking they can jack up rates as they did last year and Americans will come with dollars.

Hunting in Zim is a pure discretionary consumer activity - no one needs to get on a plane and go fly 10K miles to shoot a buffalo.

If they raised prices last year and if the rumor is true that they do it again this year - I bet they will continue to do it every year till they price out most hunters or shoot all the game.

I am with Butch - headed to check out Burkina in 10 days.

I apologize if I sound to negative on the Zim hunting industry - I have good friends in it. But I have spent way too much time looking at, dealing with and investing (and at times losing money) in emerging markets resource plays to expect any of these guys (government officials) to act like rational policy actors.

Their idea of supply and demand does not have demand destruction, resource destruction or the idea of anything beyond the present.

Just as they thought they can double money supply overnight and have no impact on prices and then double it again the next day and again and again. What for them is the price of a buffalo trophy - 5K, 10K, 20K 50K?

Lets hope it is just a rumor and I was ranting.

Mike

Hope someone in the industry can disprove, or at worst confirm these rumors

Torbjorn

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Don't dismiss the possibility that this is a marketing move by outfitters or booking agents that might stand to benefit from starting a rumor detrimental to Zim outfitters on the eve of SCI. Call me a cynic.

Well Mike, according to Russ - he got this info from 2 Zim PH's?? Frankly, I've not heard of this breaking news, have you? But it would seem pertinent to us all, that someone first verify the validity of said rumors, before posting them to the WWW??????

Hopefully for everyone its false, but this news certainly wouldn't benefit anyone - agents/outfitters included. And yes sir, I know exactly what you meant by that possible explanation as well. In the long run, this sort of thing benefits nobody.

We have certainly not heard anything about these " increases"!

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
We have certainly not heard anything about these " increases"!

CONVENTION RUMOUR BOYS...ain't it great...

I just spoke with terry anders. He said there was some conversation about a particular area.
And something must have been communicated incorrectly because he did not know of any talk about parks raising fees across the country, maybe just miscommunication about this particular area going up.

quote:

Originally posted by brent ebeling:
I just spoke with terry anders. He said there was some conversation about a particular area.
And something must have been communicated incorrectly because he did not know of any talk about parks raiswing fees across the country, maybe just miscommunication about this particular area going up.

Do you know which area?

Torbjorn

You will have to ask him or dirk. I am not sure, and the way he spoke he did not think that was going to happen anyway.

Ok. Thanks.

Torbjorn

Good to hear Buzz. Hope it stays that way!

Cheers

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
They'll screw themselves - I'd guess. It'll be just as cheap to hunt Moz or Tanz - or at least close enough that a bunch of potential hunters would head that way. A poor guy like me is getting quickly priced out of this game. I'm going to invest in a pair of knitting needles and take up sitting in the rocker on my porch making afgans!

Did not know you can make Afghans on the porch?

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
They'll screw themselves - I'd guess. It'll be just as cheap to hunt Moz or Tanz - or at least close enough that a bunch of potential hunters would head that way. A poor guy like me is getting quickly priced out of this game. I'm going to invest in a pair of knitting needles and take up sitting in the rocker on my porch making afgans!

Did not know you can make Afghans on the porch?

Charl now on NSA watch list.

Well my booking agent just called me and said the trophy fees are up 3k on buff, elephant and lion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jmal338:
Well my booking agent just called me and said the trophy fees are up 3k on buff, elephant and lion.

And your booking agent is? Who are you hunting with as well?

Edd Woslum Evolution USA. Was booking for 2015 Danda south.

"Up" is a relative term for a $3k increase. Is this in comparison to last year, 2013? Any facts with actual dollar amounts would be most helpful to hunters with hunts booked for 2014.

Total bullshit, I spoke to Terry Today at the show,and he says he never said this to Russ.

Also I am from Zim, spoken to many Zim PH's, and none of us know anything about this or heard anything, until Russ's very untimely post just before the SCI show.

Mr. Barnard,

It's my understanding that Zim PHs are not the ones that allegedly raised the rates. I see you talked to to some Zim PHs. Did you happen to talk to Parks or whoever actually jacks up the government rates?
If you can verify the falsity of this that would be great.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Mr. Barnard,

It's my understanding that Zim PHs are not the ones that allegedly raised the rates. I see you talked to to some Zim PHs. Did you happen to talk to Parks or whoever actually jacks up the government rates?
If you can verify the falsity of this that would be great.

It doesn't matter who raises the rates, Russ said Terry told him the rates were going to be raised, but Terry says he did not say this to Russ.

This smells of Bull Shit to me.
Come on ! The guys in Zim have it hard enough as it is to make a living without rumour mongering like this.
Reputable outfitters have said that they aren't aware of any increases, let's leave at that for now and stop playing Internet games with people's livelihoods.
We've seen all this before.
Russ, you should know better !

Spot on Rob

Navaluk, Yes I live in Zimbabwe,I am a Zim PH for over 22 years, am in touch with Parks all the time, I talk to several of the guys there in person or on the phone,weekly. Basically I am on the ground, You do not live in my country, So please don't try and tell me what is happening in a country that you do not even live in. Things are hard enough for us there, we certainly do not need any more rumor's to rock our safari Industry.

quote:

Total bullshit, I spoke to Terry Today at the show,and he says he never said this to Russ.

I expected it would come to this, so I reluctantly need to post excerpts from email exchange between Terry, Dirk and myself.

"Hi terry
Sorry about that here is his mail address russ@canby.com.
Yeah I hope not, apparently they have doubled all prices BUT can not confirm it.
Cheers
Dirk"

"Hi Dirk
Unfortunately - I have not heard a word from Russ and I did not get a number from you for me to call him on. Please send him an email and CC me in and send him my cell number 214 263 0536.

I have heard about the prices going up anymore. I HOPE NOT!!

Cheers
Terry

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Jessica Fourie
Sent: ‎February‎ ‎3‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎28‎ ‎AM
To: Terry Anders
Subject: Re: MAKUTI.


Hi terry
Did you manage to get hold of Russ, just wanting to confirm if you have heard the rumor of parks upping the prices on their animals.


Cheers
Dirk

Sent from my iPhone"


There are three basic tribes of people on this board: Champs, Chumps and Chimps.

The Champs are those high profile outfitters and agents making a lot of money using this board as a free sales channel to solicit clients.

The Chumps are the clients, especially the groupie clients, that hand over their money to the Champs, and then write glowing reports that serve as free advertisements for the Champs.

The Chimps are people like R. Jolly who sit on the sidelines throwing shit at the board. They are attracted to every controversial post. When one of them starts shrieking, the others swarm to that post to join the chorus.

I exclude the lurkers who post nothing, they are wise.

And then there are a few mavericks, like myself, who just tell it like it is in order to save the Chumps from themselves. Once before, I tried to help the Chumps in a similar fashion and was accused of bad faith by the Champs, a few groupie Chumps, and of course the Chimps all chimed in, just as I am now being accused of bad faith.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:

quote:

Total bullshit, I spoke to Terry Today at the show,and he says he never said this to Russ.

I expected it would come to this, so I reluctantly need to post excerpts from email exchange between Terry, Dirk and myself.

"Hi terry
Sorry about that here is his mail address russ@canby.com.
Yeah I hope not, apparently they have doubled all prices BUT can not confirm it.
Cheers
Dirk"

"Hi Dirk
Unfortunately - I have not heard a word from Russ and I did not get a number from you for me to call him on. Please send him an email and CC me in and send him my cell number 214 263 0536.

I have heard about the prices going up anymore. I HOPE NOT!!

Cheers
Terry

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Jessica Fourie
Sent: ‎February‎ ‎3‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎28‎ ‎AM
To: Terry Anders
Subject: Re: MAKUTI.


Hi terry
Did you manage to get hold of Russ, just wanting to confirm if you have heard the rumor of parks upping the prices on their animals.


Cheers
Dirk

Sent from my iPhone"


There are three basic tribes of people on this board: Champs, Chumps and Chimps.

The Champs are those high profile outfitters and agents making a lot of money using this board as a free sales channel to solicit clients.

The Chumps are the clients, especially the groupie clients, that hand over their money to the Champs, and then write glowing reports that serve as free advertisements for the Champs.

The Chimps are people like R. Jolly who sit on the sidelines throwing shit at the board. They are attracted to every controversial post. When one of them starts shrieking, the others swarm to that post to join the chorus.

And then there are a few mavericks, like myself, who just tell it like it is in order to save the Chumps from themselves. Once before, I tried to help the Chumps in a similar fashion and was accused of bad faith, just as I am now being accused of bad faith.

Wow talk about being self absorbed. Spreading internet rumor as if it is truth with no regard to people's livelihood and call it altruistic service to the community. Nowhere in these excerpts are these guys addressing Russ Gould directly and it specifically states that it is unconfirmed. Reminds me of the Norman Rockwell painting where the operator is listening in on a conversation and spreads rumor throughout town. I guess we know who to go to if we need unsubstantiated rumors to spread quickly. Who is the chump here?

Mr. Barnard,

Relax buddy. I clearly said "alleged" rise in prices. I do live in the US but I am well aware that my Fish and Game department is a colossal screw up.
These things are easier to believe coming from Zim because of the piss pot quality of your Parks department (you know they allow hunting in National Parks don't you?). So these rumors fit into the common stereotype of a screwed up country.

There are also a couple posts saying they were told the prices were going up according to their booking agent.

Its an easy fix if you have a client worried about it. Put it in writing that you will assume all the risk of price increases. Problem solved, and no actual risk to you since you obviously know there is going to be no price increase.

"Who is the chump here"

If I could imitate a chimp shrieking in writing I would do so now.

The post said there is a "rumor". Not that this is fact. A rumor is something that could be true, or not. Rumors are no longer rumors once confirmed. At that point they become news.

Neither was it an "internet rumor". It was intelligence from someone I know personally and trust, on the ground, who has nothing at all to gain by spreading false information.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:

quote:

Total bullshit, I spoke to Terry Today at the show,and he says he never said this to Russ.

I expected it would come to this, so I reluctantly need to post excerpts from email exchange between Terry, Dirk and myself.

"Hi terry
Sorry about that here is his mail address russ@canby.com.
Yeah I hope not, apparently they have doubled all prices BUT can not confirm it.
Cheers
Dirk"

"Hi Dirk
Unfortunately - I have not heard a word from Russ and I did not get a number from you for me to call him on. Please send him an email and CC me in and send him my cell number 214 263 0536.

I have heard about the prices going up anymore. I HOPE NOT!!

Cheers
Terry

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Jessica Fourie
Sent: ‎February‎ ‎3‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎28‎ ‎AM
To: Terry Anders
Subject: Re: MAKUTI.


Hi terry
Did you manage to get hold of Russ, just wanting to confirm if you have heard the rumor of parks upping the prices on their animals.


Cheers
Dirk

Sent from my iPhone"


There are three basic tribes of people on this board: Champs, Chumps and Chimps.

The Champs are those high profile outfitters and agents making a lot of money using this board as a free sales channel to solicit clients.

The Chumps are the clients, especially the groupie clients, that hand over their money to the Champs, and then write glowing reports that serve as free advertisements for the Champs.

The Chimps are people like R. Jolly who sit on the sidelines throwing shit at the board. They are attracted to every controversial post. When one of them starts shrieking, the others swarm to that post to join the chorus.

I exclude the lurkers who post nothing, they are wise.

And then there are a few mavericks, like myself, who just tell it like it is in order to save the Chumps from themselves. Once before, I tried to help the Chumps in a similar fashion and was accused of bad faith by the Champs, a few groupie Chumps, and of course the Chimps all chimed in, just as I am now being accused of bad faith.

I hope you are joking.