once again i am ashamed to post this anonymously, i am only trying to do my duty. at this time it is the only way i can put up any resistance to the illegal activity which is taking place here.

i will be adding specifics to this in the next couple days, but for now this is what i have. About 2 weeks ago a mr riaan vosloo of shingani safaris was arrested by cid for poaching in zambezi national park near victoria falls. apparently quite a stir took place in the police station when vosloo's briefcase 'operator' (a senior national parks officer who i will reveal the name of) arrived to tell the police the hunt was legal, producing paperwork to prove it. a heated stand off then took place between the warden of zambezi national park and the briefcase fellow, as the warden knew nothing about the 'hunt' and condemned all involved. although this has been happening in hwange and mana pools, it is the first time it has happened in zambezi, proof of the escalating crises. it is against the constitution of zimbabwe to hunt with paying clients in a national park, it is against the law for anyone but authorized parks personnel to shoot anything in a park. responsible for starting all this park hunting years ago are brothers barry and aj van heerden, they gave parks the idea and were the first to conduct such illegal hunts.

i will post more about the vosloo debacle soon, with some more names. and i will also be exposing some more underhand shennanigans. do not swallow what i write (how could you), speak to your zim ph and operator connections to verify all i make public knowledge here.

when he heard this story, one of my friends could not contain himself, and wrote a 'how could you, have you no shame' email to vosloo. here is his response:

-----Original Message-----
From: Shingani Safaris <safari@shingani.com>
To:
Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2011 12:55 pm
Subject:

I have invested more in your land than yu and all yr ancestors. Yu abused the
people and reaped what yu sowed. We do everything legal. Spent yr time looking
fr real poachers and leave the investors alone

Riaan Vosloo


here is something from vosloo's website, note how all his 'areas' are 'near' some famous park, or in areas which have been illegally acquired.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt...tp%3a//shingani.com/

In 2009 we are going to hunt several areas in Zimbabwe. We are again hunting next to the well known Chissarira National Park in the north of Zimbabwe. This area produced several buffalo over 40" last year and we are looking forward to some good hunts in this area. Our tented camp makes this hunt a true African experience.

At Binga next to Lake Kariba we are going to hunt for buffalo, elephant and of course hippo and crocodile. During this hunt we will also do some fishing for tiger fish.

Our number 1 elephant area is the Option area next to Hwange National Park and bordering Matetsi safari area. We have taken very good elephant in this area last year.

Our hunting area in the Gwaye produced very good buffalo, elephant and sable last year and we will again hunt from our main camp in the Gwaye River for these species.

Leopard hunting can be done in all the areas. If you want to hunt leopard only we will take you to our area close to West Nicolson where the leopards are plenty and we have had very good hunts there in the last few years.

All trophies are delivered to Matebeleland Taxidermy in Buluwayo for export to your own country.

On a hunt like this in Zimbawe add 3 days and we will take you to Victoria Falls for a true African vacation after your hunt.

Contact us today for your hunt of the big 5.

Not surprising at all.

quote:

Our hunting area in the Gwaye produced very good buffalo, elephant and sable last year and we will again hunt from our main camp in the Gwaye River for these species.

Just this mention of operating in the Gwayi Valley is clue enough for me that, until proven different, this guy IS operating illegally.

Buyer beware to those of you on AR!

If you have not already done it, do contact DSC, HSC and SCI with all info. It's worth a try.

quote:

responsible for starting all this park hunting years ago are brothers barry and aj van heerden, they gave parks the idea and were the first to conduct such illegal hunts.

Those guys have quite a rep too as I recall. Rumor has it that one of the two of these "gentlemen" had to buy his PH license back from parks a few years ago after a severe error in judgement.

its all true!!! FU$%ING bad egg south africans raping our country and claiming that they are investing!! Investing in bribes to make all this happen. It is going on in all the parks. I hope they rot in hell. I am doing my all to gather any info on these fly by night C&%TS

i got one detail wrong in my first post. it was not a senior parks official who was the briefcase operator at the police station, but a local ph. however, norbert sibello, warden katambora, has been endorsing all of vosloo’s hunts. it comes as no surprise that sibello was formerly the warden of chizarira national park, where vosloo has been advertising one of his ‘hunting’ areas as being ‘next to’. i hope this thread fast reaches the attention of the director general of national parks so that he can look into the activities of norbert sibello, because it appears norbert has a stake in a safari operation and his primary concern is not for the wildlife he pledged to defend, but rather the money he makes from partnering illegal hunting operations in national parks . it is questionable whether norbert sibello, as a government civil servant, is permitted to receive income from another source.
since my first post, riaan vosloo has sent more emails to my friend, threatening him about this thread. I will not bore you by posting more of his skewed perspective, but he did threaten to unleash his ‘zim black ph friends’ on all who stand in his way. what I think is that it is time for his ‘black ph friends’ and his parks connections to assume the position in front of the director general’s desk. many may assume that justice cannot be done in present day zimbabwe, but that is not the case as the out of africa example proved. It is time for riaan vosloo’s zim partners to explain themselves to the director general and police, and it is time for riaan vosloo to follow dawie groenewald back across the limpopo.
I wonder how mr vosloo’s client feels about the fact that the buffalo trophy he shot illegally in kazuma national park during may 2010 with mr vosloo is still rotting in a zimbabwean storage facility? i also wonder how it is that mr vosloo’s zimbabwean ‘black ph friend’ on that illegal hunt, mr mashonganyika, was not even in attendance when the buffalo was shot? lastly, I wonder why mashonganyika is still a licenced professional hunter and i urge the appropriate authorities to take drastic action. this blatant illegal activity is an insult to the integrity of our national parks authority and safari industry as a whole.

much more about this and other illegal activity to come. i urge you all to thoroughly research who you hunt with. collect as much evidence as you can zimguide, others are doing the same and judgment day will come about. contrary to what he may think, riaan vosloo and his brother are the ones who are going down, at least in zim.

good luck on your quest but i am reminded of Don Quixoti. the rule of law expired about 10 years in Zim. the rule of gold( he who has the gold, makes the rules) took its place. Parks has been turning a blind eye to this shit for years- undoubtedly under orders from higher ups in the Zanu-PF.the Zim Supreme Court ruled years ago that farm seizures were illegal- well, we all know how much good that ruling did. continue to fight the good fight- but don't expect anything to become of it. My heart bleeds for the disaster befalling Zim wildlife.

Zimpatriot
Well done my friend. You are a brave man and I will encourage you by saying that the Investigations Branch of the National Parks still do a good job and can get their teeth into things provided they have the right information.

If I were you I would involve the press as going public seems to have the right effect . I would also contact PHASA with all the details. I do think that The ZPHGA and PHASA should start working together on operators like this.

Finally, the best possible response to Mr Vosloos operation is simply to publish as many negative reports on as many forums as you can possibly find. Hopefully people doing searches on SA operators will pick up this negativity.

Here's another one for Riaan Vosloo!!! I get these all the time from clients that have booked Zimbabwe hunts with South Africans......folks Zimbabwe and South Africa are different countries in case you did not realize that!

Hi Martin!

I didn't realize that Riaan wasn't licenced in Zimbabwe. I bought the hunt at the SCI convention through the SCI auction. I do know Riaan had 35 buffalo hunts in Zimbabwe last year and his father operates out of Zimbabwe.

Is there any way that I can pay to have my buffalo released?

John



Hi John

Thank you, from what I understand, you booked this safari with a South African operator, NOT a ZImbabwe operator, secondly, the PH, Wentzel is a South African licensed Ph, NOT a Zimbabwe licensed Ph, this is the problem. Effectively, they conducted an illegal safari. I believe in your case, the incorrect paperwork was completed and the money you paid for the safari was never banked in accordance with our regulations, therefore the trophies cannot be exported.

I will make a few calls, however it does not look good. My advice if you decide to hunt in Zimbabwe again, is to book with a registered Zimbabwean operator with a concession who uses Zimbabwean licensed PH's

Martin

On Sep 30, 2011, at 3:56 AM, John Thomas wrote:

Hi Martin,

I appalogize for taking so long to reply to the post you had on the african hunting forum, I was in British Columbia guiding.

In regards to my buffalo, I and my friend hunted with Riaan Vosloo of Shingani Safaris.
My ph was Wentzel van Wyk (great ph)
The hunt took place in Sengwe park in an area called Sengwe 2
Our hunt started on September 1st 2010.

If it's any help, Riaan is using Matabeleland Taxidermy for our dip and pack. I've contacted them several times, but they are as frustrated as I am with Riaan.

I appreciate any help or advice you can give me.

Sincerely,
John Thomas

P.S. the friend hunting with me and also trying to get his buffalo is Clint White

Martin

Another way of tackling these guys is simply that if an SA PH works in Zimbabwe, he is not only illegal in terms of the Parks Act, but also in terms of the Employement and Labour act. This clearly states that no foreign National may work in Zimbabwe for Hire or Reward unless in possession of a work permit. The penalty for contravention of this act is extremely stiff, and can include banning the individual from entering Zimbabwe again. The positive aspect to this is it can be applied even after the individual has left Zimbabwe. For instance in this case , the PH could actually be reported to the Ministry of Labour and banned from entering Zimbabwe again. It could alos be applied against Mr Vosloo unless he is in possession of an Investment permit, which I doubt.

In this case, the client himself would need to provide a statement regarding the sale of the hunt and the fact that the Sa PH conducted the hunt. This would be enough to initiate an investigation by the Ministry of Labour and certainly throw at least a small spanner into the works. Hopefully PHASA would also play ball and list those who are known to have acted illegally. I am sure that most clients would be grateful to have access to such a resource

Correct, including the use of a foreign registered vehicle for reward which contravenes the temporary import permit which will lead to confiscation of the said vehicle and anything in it and arrest of the occupants with possible deportation and sentencing. I am busy working with parks at the moment on setting up various roadblocks in conjunction with ZIMRA, so as Zimpatriot an Zimguide have said documentation is being collected and ' every dog has it's day'

Zimpatriot, contact Carte Blanche. I have already been speaking to one of there researchers via email. They are interested but we need to give them more info to kick them off. We will fix these people.

I was in the ATL airport yesterday morning clearing my firearms at customs and met two hunters who had just returned from Zim/RSA. They said they started their hunt in Zim but there was a problem and they ended up hunting in RSA. They mentioned that they were hunting with Shingani. I don't remember their names, but one was from Kentucky and other from California.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Correct, including the use of a foreign registered vehicle for reward which contravenes the temporary import permit which will lead to confiscation of the said vehicle and anything in it and arrest of the occupants with possible deportation and sentencing. I am busy working with parks at the moment on setting up various roadblocks in conjunction with ZIMRA, so as Zimpatriot an Zimguide have said documentation is being collected and ' every dog has it's day'

Good stuff.

WELL DONE BOYS!!!!!
Lets get the scum out of the industry. They only here to rape it.

quote:

Zimpatriot, contact Carte Blanche.

I would be cautious of doing that.
Splashing negativity about hunting based activity regardless of how you mean it to be aired will not do our sport any good.

Rather contact the relevant authorities and let them deal with it legally.
PHASA, SARS, Green Scorpions, These would be my first option.
The media should be the last option as they always put their sant on it and that is a luck draw in terms of whether it goes pro or anti hunting

Except that one of the top Boys in Cart Blance is ex squadron and a good friend of the industry...and the Zim Authorities have never acted to stop the illegal hunts, they just deny the export of the trophies which hurts the countries reputation.

Go for it guys, STICK 'EM PROPERLY. It is sickening to see South Africans sink to gutter level politicians in order to make a cheap fast buck off of someone else. Any which way you can, put the knife in and twist it a good few times. Bastards !

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:

quote:

Zimpatriot, contact Carte Blanche.

I would be cautious of doing that.
Splashing negativity about hunting based activity regardless of how you mean it to be aired will not do our sport any good.

Rather contact the relevant authorities and let them deal with it legally.
PHASA, SARS, Green Scorpions, These would be my first option.
The media should be the last option as they always put their sant on it and that is a luck draw in terms of whether it goes pro or anti hunting

I think you mean it would be bad for South African hunting more to the point. I am onto carte blanche and will be following it through till these rotten egg Safas are out our country!!!

quote:

Originally posted by zimguide:

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:

quote:

Zimpatriot, contact Carte Blanche.

I would be cautious of doing that.
Splashing negativity about hunting based activity regardless of how you mean it to be aired will not do our sport any good.

Rather contact the relevant authorities and let them deal with it legally.
PHASA, SARS, Green Scorpions, These would be my first option.
The media should be the last option as they always put their sant on it and that is a luck draw in terms of whether it goes pro or anti hunting

I think you mean it would be bad for South African hunting more to the point. I am onto carte blanche and will be following it through till these rotten egg Safas are out our country!!!

This crap ends up tarring all South Africans with the same brush. There are reports coming out of Namibia, Tanzania and Mozambique where the same sort of horse-wallop is taking place. I would like to see that someone kicks all their bloody arses into touch.
There is not much difference in the mind set of these bastards and rhino poachers. It is an unfortunate development where certain folk have no regard for wildlife except as a means to an end. That being as much money in the bank on the back of wildlife with little regard for the future. Pretty much the same applies to the so called private reserves found all over South Africa nowadays. The stresses created by Landrover loads of wine guzzling, gawking, raucous idiots must be difficult to bear and in reality have little to do with conservation.

Hello there Cousin Bob, I would like to invite down here to the coast. We could do some fishing, I tell you what, I will even throw in a pair of custom made shoes. My treat, they are lime coloured but I can always change that if you wish. Actually, they quite take your breath away.

In case anyone might conclude that I have taken complete leave of my senses, there was a post preceeding this one, by one, Robert Mugabe. It seems as though Mr Mugabe has not the courage to retain his post and has removed it in its entirety.

Just a little FYI on the subject, and I would really appreciate it if Martin or ZimPatriot could help explain/clarify, and get me more info.

Last month I was in Zim, I hunted in Charisa and Malapati, both great safaris. I was also wanting to hunt lion if the opportunity was available, in a good area. Several weeks prior to departure, one thing lead to another, and I was communicating with SFN Safaris from SA, who supposedly had hunting available in the Nyakasanga/Sapi areas? Now I assume they bought the hunts/quota at auction, and they apparently had a lion permit for both Nyakasanga and Sapi still available?

First they wanted me to come to Sapi, but through my persistent questioning, it was obvious they had ZERO on the ground experience in Sapi. Secondly, they wanted me to come to Nyakasanga, I would hunt with a SA - PH, but of course a licensed Zim PH would be on hand. They never mentioned that was necessary for the hunt to be legal, I already knew that, but that the local PH would be beneficial when considering his local knowledge of the area.

Fact was, I wanted to lion hunt Nyakasanga for obvious reasons, but these folks made me very uncomfortable on so many levels! Getting info/responses out of them was like pulling teeth, no one seemed sure or confident of what they were telling me, etc. My only consideration was to bring Phillip with me, as my PH, as he just happens to know Nyakasanga fairly well. Problem was, I simply decided they were too many unknowns, hell, I wasn't even totally sure these folks were even legal, or the hunt I might do, would be legal?

It seems to me things have changed lately in Nyakasanga/Sapi, what can you guys tell me specifically? I was always under the impression that only 1 lion permit was issued for both of these areas, but it seems this year there was numerous lion permits for Nyakasanga? Seems to me, if that's the case, its a recipe for disaster, and nothing more than a money making decision on behalf of the Zim Govt.

I am thinking seriously of hunting lion in Nyakasanga/Sapi in 2012, but NOT if they are shooting numerous lions each year!

Aaron,

Do you know what safari companies have held Sapi and Nyakasanga in the recent past?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Aaron,

Do you know what safari companies have held Sapi and Nyakasanga in the recent past?

Ann - Nyakasanga/Sapi are auction areas, and have been for awhile now. Thus, anyone can bid on the quota.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
Go for it guys, STICK 'EM PROPERLY. It is sickening to see South Africans sink to gutter level politicians in order to make a cheap fast buck off of someone else. Any which way you can, put the knife in and twist it a good few times. Bastards !

great to see that at least ONE South African is concerned about the bastards giving the rest of his countrymen a bad name( unlike others who insist on maintaining a low key, politically correct approach to an obvious problem). PHASA AND THE REST OF THE FINE FOLKS IN RSA DIDN'T DO S--T ABOUT DAWIE GROENVALD UNTIL THE INTERNET LIT UP WITH THE RHINO SCANDAL!

Aaron, FYI, in 2010 ,6 lion were taken between Rifa, Nyakasanga and Sapi, and I believe 7 in 2011!!! Far too many for that area, also quotas are too high for all game and there are far too many operators trying to hunt the same area/ animals.

It is a fragile ecosystem and 7 trophy lions in that area will have negative repercussions.

Aaron - Unfortunately Zim parks also issed two operators permits to hunt in Nykasanga last year in adition to the auction quota and the ration quota- efectively 4 times the 'normal' offtake. This has fallen a bit this year but they are still taking off double what time has shown to be an overly enthusiastic quota. There were some very good lion in Nykasanga about 4 - 5 years back. Time has changed.

Sapi is still ok from what I hear, but I have not been there for several years.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Aaron - Unfortunately Zim parks also issed two operators permits to hunt in Nykasanga last year in adition to the auction quota and the ration quota- efectively 4 times the 'normal' offtake. This has fallen a bit this year but they are still taking off double what time has shown to be an overly enthusiastic quota. There were some very good lion in Nykasanga about 4 - 5 years back. Time has changed.

Sapi is still ok from what I hear, but I have not been there for several years.

I can tell that i have done a lot of guiding at Chikwenya photographic camp which is basically in Sapi on the edge of mana. Over the last couple of seasons i have seen two lions over 5 years of age and one was shot as i spoke to the SA hunters that shot him. ( around this time i found where a drag had been done from in our concession out into the hunting area for a bait) Other than that the pride of lion resident around the chikwenya concession made up of five lioness's were being mated by a maybe 3 year old lion,the offspring of one of the prides lioness's. I saw this young lion mate three of the lioness over a season. Obv i speak for the chikwenya concession ( prime real estate for any animal) and not further into sapi but i dont think it takes a brain surgeon to work out whats happening....

It appears that it is "common knowledge" that the off take it too high from Nyakasanga etc. Then why are the operators applying for extra quota for the area and who are they? Surely if they are concerned about the future then they would willingly self regulate and conserve the game with sustainable quotas?

The thread started off exposing SA based hunting outfits that were hunting illegally and in a way that is having a detrimental effect on the game. Are there some Zim operators who are hunting legally but have the same detrimental and damaging modus operandi?

If so then they too need to be exposed and challenged in exactly the same manner!By the sounds of it the Lion population in that area is taking a pounding and general quotas at double of what was termed ethusiastic! Zimpatriot looks like there is lots out there that needs to be exposed and the more people that know the more pressure can be exerted on those to blame - regardless of what nationality they are.

'Secondly, they wanted me to come to Nyakasanga, I would hunt with a SA - PH, but of course a licensed Zim PH would be on hand.'

So it would seem that there are some Zim PH's who are helping to corrupt the system?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
'Secondly, they wanted me to come to Nyakasanga, I would hunt with a SA - PH, but of course a licensed Zim PH would be on hand.'

So it would seem that there are some Zim PH's who are helping to corrupt the system?

There most certainly are. Most of them are known(2 brothers spring to mind) but there are a few under the radar.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
great to see that at least ONE South African is concerned about the bastards giving the rest of his countrymen a bad name( unlike others who insist on maintaining a low key, politically correct approach to an obvious problem). PHASA AND THE REST OF THE FINE FOLKS IN RSA DIDN'T DO S--T ABOUT DAWIE GROENVALD UNTIL THE INTERNET LIT UP WITH THE RHINO SCANDAL!

There could be two reasons for the quiet ; do not make too much noise in case you draw attention to your own nefarious activities, or, you might just jeopardize any future chance of making a dirty, bloody quick buck.

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
'Secondly, they wanted me to come to Nyakasanga, I would hunt with a SA - PH, but of course a licensed Zim PH would be on hand.'

So it would seem that there are some Zim PH's who are helping to corrupt the system?

There most certainly are. Most of them are known(2 brothers spring to mind) but there are a few under the radar.

Brothers as in brothers or brothers?

Folks this problem is much bigger than just a few people operating below the radar and a couple of SA operators straying outside of the law.

A few weeks ago, I was driving back from SA and stopped in at a couple of guns shops in the Limpopo province. Every single one had adverts posted by SA operators that advertised hunting in Zimbabwe. Now a few of these might be legal, but there were certainly several that were completely illegal. I contacted one of them who advertised BIG 5 hunting in the Matetsi area. The owner could not tell me who the Zim PH was but said that he did not have to have a Zim PH on the hunt as he had "connections"

Another gun shop owner told me he hunted every year in the "Gona Re Zhou area" as he bought a hunt from a local and then would resell the big game to clients whilst he would hunt "the small stuff"

Personally I do not beleive that anyone should be allowed to operate in Zim, SA or anywhere else for that matter, unless they have bought the hunt through a registered Zimbabwean operator and I certainly do not beleive that SA PHs should be allowed to operate at all in a foreign country. I am sure that many of the SA operators and outfitters would agree that they would be extremely unhappy if Zim Phs started to barge into SA and take their business away.

I have done business with some top notch South African operators who will seek opportunities for their clients and are more than happy to let Zim PHs do the work for them.Legitimate operators respect the laws and ethics of Zim operators and dont need to demand that an SA ph is present.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Aaron - Unfortunately Zim parks also issed two operators permits to hunt in Nykasanga last year in adition to the auction quota and the ration quota- efectively 4 times the 'normal' offtake. This has fallen a bit this year but they are still taking off double what time has shown to be an overly enthusiastic quota. There were some very good lion in Nykasanga about 4 - 5 years back. Time has changed.

Sapi is still ok from what I hear, but I have not been there for several years.

So that's what the deal is! Parks is issuing more quota than that being offered at auction for theses areas. I had the lot sheets on my computer and e-mailed them to Aaron yesterday. And...they clearly only had one lion and one lioness listed for each Nyakasanga and Sapi for 2011.

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:


There most certainly are. Most of them are known(2 brothers spring to mind) but there are a few under the radar.

And with not even thinking hard...I could tell you their initials.

Zimfrosty, logically why can't SA PHs work anywhere else in Africa? The criteria being that they comply with the laws of the country in which they operate. There are many PHs who operate in different countries, Americans,French, Belgian, Spanish and other nationalities are all in the mix.
It is the unlawful operators who demonstrate by their modus operandi that they have no ethics of any description. They should be rooted out and sent packing. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that where there is rotten governance, rotters will take advantage.

ZimFrosty, Ganyana, Martin, Zimguide - Thanks guys for some info/clarification! I knew some funny stuff was going on, I just couldn't get the straight story from anyone.

Lane did in fact send me the 2011 auction sheet, and as we all know, 1 lion is scheduled as available for both Nyakasanga/Sapi, each year! This crap makes me want to beat the shit out of these clowns.

Now Martin, isn't Rifa a separate National Parks Safari Area, operated by one specific outfitter? It may border Nyakasanga/Sapi, but is it really part of the problem?

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
Zimfrosty, logically why can't SA PHs work anywhere else in Africa? The criteria being that they comply with the laws of the country in which they operate. There are many PHs who operate in different countries, Americans,French, Belgian, Spanish and other nationalities are all in the mix.
It is the unlawful operators who demonstrate by their modus operandi that they have no ethics of any description. They should be rooted out and sent packing. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that where there is rotten governance, rotters will take advantage.

Scriptus
I have no issue with an SA ph operating in Zimbabwe provided he operates within the law. Unfortunately the law states that he is not able to conduct a safari for hire or reward unless he is licensed and registered with National Parks. Your laws say the same thing.
It is skirting the law having a Zim PH present but letting the SA PH run the hunt. Ultimately if the client gets flattened, it is the ZIM ph who will wear the shit.
If an SA ph comes to Zim, sits the appropriate examinations and gets a Zim licence then all credit to him. He is more than likely a bona fide operator.

I agree that PHs operate all over the place. There are a number of Zim PHs in Tanzania, BUT they are legally entitled to do so. IMHO simply having a Zim PH present whilst the SA PH clearly runs the hunt is not professional. If you book a hunt in SA, do it with an SA ph, in Zim, do it with a Zim PH.

Allowing the Zim PH /SA PH scenario simply opens the gateway for underhanded operators to take advantage.....the proof is in the pudding.