The story on this thread appears to be changing. It began with the accusation that a South African was arrested for Poaching game in the Zimbabwe National Parks. The person making these accusations refuses to disclose his name and admits that he is not involved in the hunting industry ( he does photo safaris). Now I see recognized PH’s from Zim (who have disclosed their identity) stating that the Parks department has issued hunting permits to both South African and Zimbabwe outfitters. Maybe I am missing something here but it appears the issue is with the Zimbabwe Parks department. How can they issue a permit to hunt in the parks if hunting there is illegal?

becuase this is Africa, and just because the Act says you cannot do something....well, that has never stopped anybody. The problem comes though when you try to export the trophies if they are CITES regulated - and even many times if they are not CITES regulated.

Parks are broke. They need the loot and if you are going to pay them to kill something, fine, they will give you a permit to do so. It may not be legal, but the parks officers running the park will honour it. However, the export authorities are not going to issue an export permit unless. A) all the money's have been baned in Zimbabwe (and the banking authorities are controlled by those opposed to the illegal hunting) b) they are sure they are not committing an international fraud.

so, QED, export papers for hunts of negotiable legallity are few and far between especially as parks don't have full control over that aspect.

Here is a good recent example of the problem. Kalulu Safaris who is a South African operator is offering hunts in Matetsi Six. He claims his quota is the ration for all of Matetsi areas and is sanctioned by the local authorities and is fully exportable. I understand ration quotas for Parks personnel etc, but taking trophy animals on ration quota on top of the the trophy quota is simply not right.

Here is where I see the problem. It is with us, the consumer. As a round number a dangerous game day rate is $1000.00 with a reputable Zim outfit. When an outfitter from SA is offering reduced pricing and claims to have a SA and a Zim PH (increasing cost) something is not right. But many individuals do not care as they would rather save $200.00 per day rather than do the right thing and booking with a 100% legal and proper company.

Aaron, to answer your question, Rifa is separate , owned and operated by Pro Saf, they get 2 lion, but the problem is that the lion in the valley move a lot and the border of Rifa is Nyakasanga, it does not take long for a lion to walk 30 clicks as you know.

2 Lion for Rifa is not the issue as they are picky at what they shoot, it is the total amount shot in the area that concerns everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Aaron, to answer your question, Rifa is separate , owned and operated by Pro Saf, they get 2 lion, but the problem is that the lion in the valley move a lot and the border of Rifa is Nyakasanga, it does not take long for a lion to walk 30 clicks as you know.

2 Lion for Rifa is not the issue as they are picky at what they shoot, it is the total amount shot in the area that concerns everyone.

Yes, I totally agree! Ok, but I am still a bit confused.

Alright, there's 1 lion in Nyakasanga, and 1 in sapi, according to the auction sheets from early this year, correct?

Second, we have 2 lions in Rifa, which frankly I am totally OK with? So, where are the other two lions/quota coming from and, how in the world is more than 1 lion available/shot/hunted in Nyakasanga?

I know, just as Ganyana says, Parks is broke, etc, etc. But can you guys tell me exactly what's going on in Nyakasanga/Sapi? Is more than 1 lion being hunted in each area? If so, who and where is the quota from? I assume its likely non-exportable??

This whole thing sounds like a freakin mess to me, but I still want to hunt there.

So, should it be based on 'quotas' or... mature and aged lions?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
So, should it be based on 'quotas' or... mature and aged lions?

First and foremost...the quota should not be over shot as it appears that it may be.

Then...the lions taken on quota...should be mature males.

So the answer is both.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
So, should it be based on 'quotas' or... mature and aged lions?

Ann - I'm just trying to figure out the lion thing, cause that's what I'm interested in buying. But, as Lane mentions, this is really about the whole quota situation in these 2 areas. Are more animals being shot, than the legit quota?

Besides the auction hunt quota, two or more "outfits" have been given quota in the auction areas. This independent and on top of the auction quota.

They are running the area as their own concessions and there is little doubt that the areas cannot withstand this type of pressure very long.

Lions in Mana Pools have been affected by this activity.

quote:

Originally posted by TNJohn:
Besides the auction hunt quota, two or more "outfits" have been given quota in the auction areas. This independent and on top of the auction quota.

They are running the area as their own concessions and there is little doubt that the areas cannot withstand this type of pressure very long.

Lions in Mana Pools have been affected by this activity.

Definitely a more definitive answer, thank you! Who are the "two" or more outfits, do you know?? Does anyone know specifically? I just keep getting half answers from Zim/SA operators offering these hunts, so I've yet to really figure it out.

Bouma or Bouna Safaris was offering these in 2010 and I believe into 2011. Theo Verster? They claimed they were cheated out of another concession and parks gave them the Auction area in which they could use their quota.

It will most likely be the same guys that continue to be involved in questionable hunts.

Just a note for people that do not know (L,A).
Sapi and Nyakasanga are hunting reserves run by Zim National Parks adjacent to six other reserves (one massive area). these areas would most likely be farmland void of any wildlife if not for the funds produced by hunters much like the adjacent communal lands.
Unlike the small pockets of Reserves in wildlife diminished Kenya (A non sport hunting country)these areas do make up a great Lion habitat which is usually the case. So before you criticise the way hunting reserves are managed perhaps you should investigate what is happening within the small reserves of places like Kenya that do not offer sport hunting but instead allow farmers and Poachers with their small boundary's.
Ambaseli and Kitui reserves are just two that come to mind.

Some very serious problems are occurring here and in a few days some new information is going to break that will flabbergast some of you...it did me!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Some very serious problems are occurring here and in a few days some new information is going to break that will flabbergast some of you...it did me!

Nothing that happens in Africa can flabbergast me anymore!

Tanzania is heading that way too, as the poaching is so rampant, and by the looks of things, the government is doing absolutely nothing about it.

In fact, the impression one gets is that it is being incouraged.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Some very serious problems are occurring here and in a few days some new information is going to break that will flabbergast some of you...it did me!

More of Dr. Easter's proprietary knowledge us mere mortals are not privy to, no doubt.

Saeed,

You are a man of wealth and power, why not issue a Press Release (through PRWeb or other) that openly shows what is going on. Get a freelance writer to do a short, 500 word expose!

To all of us, we are just chatting about this let's get to ACTION by filing complainst, showing this to SCI, DSC etc.!

At this rate, we will have NO lions or other game left for the next generation!

Is this the legacy we want to leave our children???? Do we want our children to know that we could have done something and were too lazy or carefree to ACT?

Someone with means, please let us know what you will do to save hunting, please!!

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:


At this rate, we will have NO lions or other game left for the next generation!

Is this the legacy we want to leave our children???? Do we want our children to know that we could have done something and were too lazy or carefree to ACT?

This is statement is simply not true and very unhelpful. Africa has far more game reserves than place like Europe and the like which have healthy game numbers. So long as the new custodians learn how to manage these reserves properly and the "dreaming greens" learn that throwing cash at politicians is not a sensible way of managing wildlife (Example; Kenya).
Good examples are Germany and Spain with good wildlife numbers (managed by hunters) whilst India and Kenya with little wildlife does not allow hunting. Both country have a huge human population.

quote:

Originally posted by jjbull:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Some very serious problems are occurring here and in a few days some new information is going to break that will flabbergast some of you...it did me!

More of Dr. Easter's proprietary knowledge us mere mortals are not privy to, no doubt.

I can assure you that Dr Easters knowledge is a lot more than proprietary. He however cannot release info that would endanger the hard work being done by a few others to stop this nonsense

quote:

Some very serious problems are occurring here and in a few days some new information is going to break that will flabbergast some of you...it did me!

J. Lane Easter, DVM
DRSS

J. Lane Easter I'm with you on this one....!!!!!!, I can almost not contain myself with the impending news

Yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Here is a good recent example of the problem. Kalulu Safaris who is a South African operator is offering hunts in Matetsi Six. He claims his quota is the ration for all of Matetsi areas and is sanctioned by the local authorities and is fully exportable. I understand ration quotas for Parks personnel etc, but taking trophy animals on ration quota on top of the the trophy quota is simply not right.

Here is where I see the problem. It is with us, the consumer. As a round number a dangerous game day rate is $1000.00 with a reputable Zim outfit. When an outfitter from SA is offering reduced pricing and claims to have a SA and a Zim PH (increasing cost) something is not right. But many individuals do not care as they would rather save $200.00 per day rather than do the right thing and booking with a 100% legal and proper company.

interesting stuff on kalulu safaris website.... a pile of discrepencies, the most obvious being 3 different spellings for marieth (mash) mashonyika (sp?), the zim connection. By their own admission, they have no permanent camp or concession but hunt from ‘fly camps’. I’m sure the minister of environment would be interested to know where they are hunting the lion they advertise, especially since he has just lifted a 4 year lion hunting ban (2005-2008) in matabeleland north province, the result of dawie groenewald’s excesses. is it not against parks regulations to list any hunt or trophy as ‘price on request’, as kalulu does with their lion? No price, no area…. Also interesting to note is that kalulu charges a 6% govt levy when they are only required to pay 4% by law. I am sure dallas safari club, sci and clients of kalulu would be interested to know where the extra 2% goes. maybe SARS would – it is understood that the ‘operator’ joe da silva is a south african citizen. also apparently a member of dsc and sci. During the recent investigation into the shingani safaris (riaan vosloo) saga, a ‘fly camp’ was discovered close to katambora parks office, under the control of none other than warden norbert sibello. Could this be the camp the zimbabwe tourism authority has granted kalulu safaris an operators licence for? it is a well known fact that kalulu has been conducting ration hunts to paying clients during 2010 and 2011. how do they export the trophies since it is against the law to export animals shot on a ration hunt? Incidentally, fyi, the price riaan vosloo paid for the unnacceptable act of hunting in a park was a $500 fine for wiring zim licence plates over his SA plates - discovered when he was accosted in zambezi national park. this is at least the second time vosloo has been apprehended hunting in a park, the kazuma buffalo saga of last year is still fresh in mind.


http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt...kalulusafaris.co.za/


‘Joe’s vision and mission is that of establishing the black professional hunters of Zimbabwe and of assisting them in having the opportunity to run their own safari businesses in their own country, thereby also supporting the people of Zimbabwe.......
Come and experience this wonderful African adventure for yourself and be part of a forward-thinking mission to benefit the people and wildlife of a great country'.

My post is in regards to an earlier post by Martin Pieters. I wrote him a person email about trying to get my buffalo delivered to the taxidermist for dip and pack, which he posted on this forum. My buffalo has been delivered and hopefully will be on it's way soon.
John

John

When it comes down weeding out illegal operators in Zimbabwe, I am afraid personal emails go out of the window, you booked a hunt with a South African in an area with perhaps no quota, what I would worry about if I was you, is if the hunt was conducted on land listed by the US government as being ' illegally appropriated' and therefore your involvement with listed persons may be punishable in accordance with the Lacy act.
People booking hunts in Zimbabwe should be very careful on who they book with and where they are hunting, period.
I personally do not think your trophy should be exported, considering the facts of the safari.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:

what I would worry about if I was you, is if the hunt was conducted on land listed by the US government as being ' illegally appropriated' and therefore your involvement with listed persons may be punishable in accordance with the Lacy act.
People booking hunts in Zimbabwe should be very careful on who they book with and where they are hunting, period.

The Woodlands would qualify as such an "illegally appropriated place"...would it not???

Woodlands was specifically named in the SADC ruling brought about by Zimbabwe farmers. There had been talk of using this to go after anyone who had hunted or visited the farm, especially after the ruling. At one time Cableas was putting hunters on Woodlands and there is a recent hunt report on AR for a hunt conducted on Woodlands.

Does anyone have, or know where to find the present, up to date list of people and farm/properties that we US citizens are not pemitted to hunt on or with?

IS Woodlands on the list?

quote:

Originally posted by TNJohn:
Woodlands was specifically named in the SADC ruling brought about by Zimbabwe farmers. There had been talk of using this to go after anyone who had hunted or visited the farm, especially after the ruling. At one time Cableas was putting hunters on Woodlands and there is a recent hunt report on AR for a hunt conducted on Woodlands.

Exactly!!!

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
Does anyone have, or know where to find the present, up to date list of people and farm/properties that we US citizens are not pemitted to hunt on or with?

IS Woodlands on the list?

I do NOT know 100% for sure...but it is my belief that Woodlands IS on the list. Please do not take my word for that however.

quote:

Originally posted by TNJohn:
At one time Cableas was putting hunters on Woodlands and there is a recent hunt report on AR for a hunt conducted on Woodlands.

I believe Terry Fenn was the PH for at least one of these hunts.

If you read the wikileaks releases....you will see that the US government considers woodlands to be a no no...

appart from the fact that I got well and truely vilified and misquoted in the the Zimbabwean press regarding the wiki leaks leaks from the US embassy in harare...several things are apparent if you read the originals from the embassy...hunting on stolen property is regarded as a crime but no imediate action to be taken

PS...when are the SEALS going to pop that useless oxygen thief Assange?

quote:

Originally posted by Don Heath:

PS...when are the SEALS going to pop that useless oxygen thief Assange?

Fine with this US voting citizen any day!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don Heath:

... considers woodlands to be a no no...

...several things are apparent if you read the originals from the embassy...hunting on stolen property is regarded as a crime but no imediate action to be taken...[QUOTE]



OK, but IS Woodlands on "the list", or not? Is it illeagal to hunt there for US citizens, or merely immoral?

LHowel

It is not illegal for you, as an American, to hunt on woodlands...merely illegal to import the trophies into the US...that comes under the heading of importing stolen goods.

Under Zimbabwean LAW the land owner issues the hunting permit. The government 'says' it has nationalised the property and so National Parks are the proper authority to issue the hunting permit..however, the Zimbabwe Government have never enacted any law or legislation 'nationalising' the farms so until the matter of nationalisation is actually legally dealt with Zimbabwe parks are NOT the legal authority recognised by foreign governments to permit the hunt and taking the trophies out of Zimbabwe is importing stolen goods....Australia, EU, Canada etc all have taken the same possition.

I would like to put some things straight here and let everybody know that Kalulu Safaris is not a south african company but a registered hunting operator in Zimbabwe HOP 0287. We are a 100% legal and proper company abiding by the ethics and hunting laws of Zimbabwe.
I will not be anonymous as others have done here. If you are fighting for a genuine cause why being a coward and write anonymous postings. I am proud to introduce myself as director and PH of Kalulu Safaris,Zimbabwe. My partner Joe da Silva is south african, ofcourse,but he does not conduct safaris here, it is my sole responsibility. Never in the 25 years he has sent hunting clients to Zimbabwe operators has he broken or been accused of breaking a zimbabwean law.
Joe is my partner and he does handle all our bookings, but he has done nothing to be painted from the same tar pot used for Dawie Groeneawald and Riaan Vosloo.

It is very unfortunate that some local people are not comfortable with Joes vision as shown on our web page and are trying to pull down Kalulu safaris.This is true, 100% true. Well, i would prefer not to discuss issues of our prices,fly camps and ration quotas because it is my feeling that these grievances must be presented to the proper authorities in our country first, engaging all parties involved before confusing people and making a scene in the international media. Did those of you who have issues ever go to National Parks with your questions? If you had,you would not have started this controversy on the internet.

Kalulu Safaris has never charged clients 6% government levy.Posting that number as well as the spelling on my name were a genuine mistake by our web page designer. We have never hunted lion but we offer it and give the price on request because we organise it from a diffrent area.
We do not have a permanant camp,and so what. What is wrong with a fly camp?Many clients prefer it because it is in the tradition of old africa safari hunting.
Finaly, the quota i had was authorised by Parks and have permits endorsed from National parks HQ.For your own information, the area warden, even the regional office does not issue permits but the HQ.You can find out from National Parks.

It is my ernest wish that people interested in blowing other peoples' candles must get all the facts right before they start confusing the world. Maybe this will make Mr.Anonymous' candle shine more brighter.
Fellow sportsmen and true hunters, all i can say is beware of people using this space with their private agenda and making false accusations to pull down others.

Mariet Mashonganyika.
Director and PH of Kalulu safaris

Mariet
Due to the past history of what has occurred you really do need to explain. Without that explanation you give the appearance of just another carpet bagger.

Over the past few years there have been numerous unflattering reports regarding “ration” and “cull” hunts being sold or offered in the Matetsi and Hwange areas. Most often the companies have been South African working with a recently formed Zimbabwe safari company. If memory serves me correct, in 2008 National Parks HQ experimented with selling ration elephants and because of abuses by those involved it was stopped.

Kalulu has been mentioned as hunting in Matesti Unit 6 which is owned/controlled by a person on the banned list. For an American to hunt in Unit six would be illegal. If you want people to feel at ease with your company then explain your hunting activities in Unit six.

I never understand why with all the long time reputable PH’s in Zimbabwe, that some new companies team with South African companies. If I am hunting South Africa it won’t be with a Zimbabwean and if I hunt Zimbabwe it won’t be with a South African. Why did you choose a South African company over teaming with a Zimbabwean?

John

quote:

We are a 100% legal and proper company abiding by the ethics and hunting laws of Zimbabwe.

Mariet,

How can you claim to be ethical when you are shooting trophies off of ration quota?

I received a very detailed email from Joe stating that Kalulu trophy hunts the ration quota for Matetsi and that it is exportable.

Not only is the trophy quota being shot, now trophies are being shot on ration quota.

As far as being anonymous anybody can go to my website on my signature line and see who I am.

And my website is for fun only, I am not in the safari business other than spending money.

Mike Burke
Concerned Hunter

There are a number of concerns that I have with Mr Vosloo’s activities along with his Zimbabwean hunting cohorts. I am a Vic Falls resident, Zambezi National parks is a stone's throw away from my house and I enjoy the buffalo and elephant that graze at the end of the street. I along with nearly everyone in Victoria Falls rely on tourism (non consumptive) as our sole means of support, so Mr Vosloo's hutning activities are up close and personal and pose a direct threat to all our livlihoods.
As I write there is a South African investor busy building a luxury photographic safari camp in Zambezi National park. Non consumptive, long term and sustainable, just the type of investment we are looking for in Victoria Falls and Zimbabwe as a whole. Mr Vosloo how do you think one of your fellow countrymen feels about you conducting hunting safaris in the same National Park that he is investing large sums of money for the exact opposite purpose of hunting……. ?
Victoria Falls National Park, along with Zambezi National Park, generate enormous revenues from non consumptive tourism for National Parks in the form of entry fee’s, which in peak season can amount to hundreds of thousands of US dollars. Your negative hunting impact in Zambezi National park will directly impinge on these, long term, sustainable and established business’s viability, directly threatening the economy of Victoria Falls.

This leads to my next point, the Zimbabwe Tourist Authority is doing a great job re-branding the image of Zimbabwe as a tourist destination, along with the relevant environmental and tourism ministries (Victoria Falls and Livingstone have just been jointly awarded the United Nations World Tourism Organization General Assembly in 2013, attracting an estimated 3000 delegates),
‘The UNWTO represents public sector tourism bodies, from most countries in the world and the publication of its data makes possible comparisons of the flow and growth of tourism on a global scale.
The organisation plays a role in promoting the development of responsible, sustainable and universally accessible tourism, paying particular attention to the interests of developing countries.
It also encourages implementation of the Global Code of Ethics for Tourism, with a view to ensuring that member countries, tourist destinations and businesses maximise the positive economic, social and cultural effects of tourism and fully reap its benefits, while minimising its negative social and environmental impacts’ (New Ziana) The HeraldDo we risk countering all these positives signals with the negative practices of a few individuals? Mr Vosloo there are much bigger players and the stakes are much higher than I think you realize.
The hunting industry in Zimbabwe has the most to lose, at some point down the line if the activities of Mr Vosloo and his like continue unchecked, un-censored and out of control we will have a knee jerk reaction to hunting in Zimbabwe. The potential scenario will be of that in Zambia in 2001, where a total ban on all hunting in Zambia was decreed by the President. This is the last scenario I would like to see as the social and financial ramifications will be huge.
However the irresponsible, selfish, greed induced actions of the Vosloo’s and their brethren will end the industry as sure as the sun will rise over the Zambezi tomorrow. Mr Vosloo will trek south of Limpopo, leaving in his wake untold destruction to our wildlife, an industry in turmoil and countless people out of a job and unable to feed their families, lost revenue to National Parks ect. The hunting industry in Zimbabwe will take years to recover, leaving huge tracts of viable hunting land to the mercy of meat and wood poachers. All so a couple of unscrupulous foreign operators can make a quick buck, at our expense.

Personally I have no issues with hunting, the vast majority of hunters are practical environmentalists, hunt by a universal code of ethics and would like to see future generations enjoying the same hunting opportunities that they had themselves

Just a thought, can you imagine the public uproar in South Africa if a Zimbabwean Operator took to conducting hunts in Kruger National Park……!!!!!!

John Nicholson
Victoria Falls

If hunting in a National Park is authorised then surely you need to be looking for the rot closer to home?

Bouna Safaris are advertising safaris in Matetsi Unit 2. This is the same concession that was hardly hunted on this year due to 3rd forces trying to bulldozer the current lease holders out of the area. Word has it that Francis Nhema - the current minister of tourism is behind Bouna.

Bouna is the company shooting all the lion in Nyakasanga as well...at least as I have been told.