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Im just reading the PDF file I got sent to me. Hunt Chirundu Nyakasanga the hunting area are adjacent to the famous Mana Pools. | |||
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Lane, Aaron and Anton I would strongly suggest that before you make serious allegations ( and get in another personal fight) this time about the Whittals that you get facts straight. I can see that Lane has been desperate for this thread to come out ,and Guy be named, so possibly you do have some strong damning evidence against Guy and if that the case and you feel that it would be publicaly benificial for everone to know - then bring it out. However the attachment about selling hunts in Nyakasanga/Chirundu is not illegal. From what I can see it seems that he is selling a bag that is in line with the auctions- which is how Nyakasanga has been sold since I started hunting. He may very well be intending to buy the auction hunts and sell them on just as Chifuti did with the whole of Sapi some years back- nothing illegal or even unethical about that. Alternatively he may have bought quota from Bouna (Aaron- Bouna is a Zim operation not an SA operation- however he does sell quota to Sa Phs) or from Van Der Riet who has the Chirundu Sugar estates and has had a quota there since his father started it many many years ago. Nothing illegal about that either. Possibly questionable as to how Bouna got there in the first place but until that is proved "wrong/illegal" he has a legal quota. Regarding Guy shooting a 100lbs ele in the park- yes that is illegal but once again if there is no concrete proof of it Lane then it is a very damning statement against a family that has done alot for hunting in Zimbabwe. We all know Guy has made a few mistakes in his time and he has paid handsomely for it and been suitably punished- however his advertising hunting in Nyaksanga is not illegal or unethical as the post implies. What I am the first to agree with you Aaron is that Nyakasanga is getting abused and something needs to be done. I hunted there twice this year and it was very disappointing to say the least. We shot wonderful trophies and the clients were very happy BUT we were one of 12 hunters there at the same time! The quotas are getting abused and there are too many ration animals been shot. Combine that with the SA hunters who continually bribe game Scoutes etc etc does put Nyakasanga at risk of been over hunted which would be a huge loss to everyone. At the risk of putting my neck out ( and I appologise to all the good SA PH and operators that are out there as I hate to generalise)but a good starting point would be to stop SA hunters operating hunts in Zimbabwe with out a liscenced Zim Ph. I would not be aloud to take a client to SA and hunt with out a qualified SA PH and the same should apply to here in Zim. Another area that has been heavily abused by SA operators is the Gwaai areas around the Falls. Anyway Lane Aaron and Anton I am certainly not trying to pick a fight however lately there has been far too much mud slinging with out enough concrete evidence that affects peoples reputation/lives which they have spent many years building up ( Roger Whittal started hunting in Zim probably when Aaron was playing with action men!)and if you were wrong it only took you 5 minutes to pen your post and would take the Whittals years to rebuild their credibility. Rememeber that under Roger Whittal numerous good Ph have been trained the likes of- Peter Wood, Terry La Butt, Myles McCallum, Rich Tabor to name but a few- all Phs that are well respected in their own rights now but the credit goes to Roger Whittal who was their mentor. It has been said befor on AR but I will say it again- There are far too many posts that are more detrimental to us hunters as a whole and gives the antis alot of ammuntion to us against us. Lets all think before we post! Cheers Buzz | |||
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Buzz - I too have alot of respect for RWS, Guy and I have known eachother for quite some time now. My concern with Nyakasanga, really has nothing to do with RWS. I for one, never claimed the hunting was illegal? My concern is the excessive quotas that have been allotted lately, much beyond what's been available for years. Correct me if I am wrong, but all the additional quota that has been given to Bouna in Nyakasanga, has be given to them because they had already paid for area/quota in Matetsi, then Zim Parks could not honor that agreement, so Zim Parks just added a bunch of quota in Nyakasanga, and gave it to Bouna? This to include 1-2 additional lions, when Nyakasanga has forever, auctioned off only 1 lion. Nobody I know has ever had an issue with the Auction hunts?? The concern is with the additional quota, plus ration quota that has been given. Obviously if Zim Parks is issuing it, its not illegal, but perhaps questionable wildlife management. At least for me, that's my concern, I can't speak for others. My contact with Bouna Safaris (Francois and his wife), has been done from their home in S.A.? | |||
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Buzz from me its not an attack more a question if it is legal and a good hunt as probably hunters/friends here from Scandinavia will take this offer. I know some people who have hunted with Diana and with Guy and have nothing but good to say. And as far as I know this is a legal hunt with exportable quota as I said in my last post. Diana are Europes biggest agent at least it was once and been in the game for many many years and I doubt they would sell illegal hunts. | |||
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That appears to be the million dollar question that has yet to be explained! ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Buzz, I think Roger Whittall has a wonderful reputation. I applaud all his accomplishments. I have come close to booking a hunt with him a couple of times and would not hesitate in the future. In this day and time...the Nyakasanga situation is very troubling. My only point was that with all the finger pointing towards RSA guys everyone should also clean there own house. I too have a son and a wonderful father. My father has always been the first person to kick my ass when I was doing wrong (which I did plenty of in my younger days) and I plan on being the first to correct my son as well. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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BTW...don't associate Aaron with me on this issue. He and I discussed the lion in Nyakasanga and that was it. I was expressing my own opinions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Exportable would be the area of concern on the lion. Not saying it would not get exported...just saying it would be an area of concern until it was in your trophy room. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Considering many of the operators have failed to pay parks and used political coneections to prevent them from being forced to do so, AND considering that the parks field staff have not been paid for three months already as the dept is broke...anything that parks can do to raise money, however shortsighted will be used, and staff who have not been paid a cent in 3 months (and in some areas 4 months) will make any plan to get some income...the problems are not going to go away in a hurry. Force is being bought to bear...the chairman of SOAZ was forced to pay up last week, others are on the back foot as well and may well start paying. If the parks staff are paid, the illegal and unethical practices will be reduced. | |||
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Buzz - I'll ask the question again, with some additional quotes from some of your peers listed below. It does appear that abuse is taking place within Nyakasanga, and at least for me, that's the concern. If you go back and read all of my posts on this thread, you will see I never made a claim of illegal activity, or mentioned RWS??? I was simply trying to figure out who/what/where/when is responsible for all the additional quota in Nyakasanga? If the info below is accurate, it would seem to be a real travesty to the wildlife within Nyakasanga, would it not? Thus, I said that I would not support that abuse, regardless of who's involved, or its apparent legality. IMO, if one is selling hunts, representing hunts or outfitting hunts in Nyakasanga at the moment, that person is complicit in the abuse. If you choose to support it, that's up to you! As I mentioned below as well. Bouna might be a Zim company, I believe what you say. What I do know for sure is, ALL of my contact with them directly has been done from there home in S.A.???
MARTIN PIETERS QUOTE: "Aaron, FYI, in 2010, 6 lion were taken between Rifa, Nyakasanga and Sapi, and I believe 7 in 2011!!! Far too many for that area, also quotas are too high for all game and there are far too many operators trying to hunt the same area/animals. It is a fragile ecosystem and 7 trophy lions in that area will have negative repercussions." GANYANA QUOTE: "Aaron - Unfortunately Zim parks also issed two operators permits to hunt in Nykasanga last year in adition to the auction quota and the ration quota- efectively 4 times the 'normal' offtake. This has fallen a bit this year but they are still taking off double what time has shown to be an overly enthusiastic quota. There were some very good lion in Nykasanga about 4 - 5 years back. Time has changed." TNJOHN QUOTE: "Besides the auction hunt quota, two or more "outfits" have been given quota in the auction areas. This independent and on top of the auction quota. They are running the area as their own concessions and there is little doubt that the areas cannot withstand this type of pressure very long. Lions in Mana Pools have been affected by this activity." | |||
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This thread began with Rian Vosloo of Shingani Safaris being arrested for poaching in Zambezi National Park in Zim. Has this been resolved? The reason I ask is Vosloo and Shingani have a hunt donated to SCI for the auction at the upcoming convention. Shingani Safaris is offering an exciting 10-day, 1x1 guided Cape buffalo and leopard hunt for two hunters in Zimbabwe. Schedule this rifle hunt with outfitter for open dates in 2012 or 2013. Shingani Safaris owner Riaan Vosloo operates in Zimbabwe in partnership with his father, Tienie Vosloo. Tienie, a longtime resident of Zimbabwe and a well-known professional hunter, has hunted the land all his life. His knowledge of the African bush and the people makes him a pleasure to have on every safari. Together, father and son will make sure you are safe and in good hands for the duration of your stay. Included are safari camp accommodations, meals, guide service, trophy fee for one buffalo and one leopard, and field prep. Hunt can be upgraded to include additional days and species; see outfitter for details. Not included are any before/after hunt expenses, dipping, packaging/shipping and gratuities. Arrival/departure point is Victoria Falls. For more information, contact Riaan at 27 82 8720535 or email safari@shingani.com. Company's website: www.shingani.com Donation: # 27296 Auction: Slot # WN019 | |||
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What a mess Zimbabwe is. | |||
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Mike Not sure if has been resolved ( Vosloo case ), however SCI has been notified about their Zimbabwe donated hunt for 2012 and in light of the below, I would ask some questions! http://www.africahunting.com/z...sloo-beware-guy.html Book with a Zimbabwean! Mart martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com www.martinpieterssafaris.com " hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on" | |||
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this is nothing new. SCI has been offering auction hunts from dodgy operators for many years. do a search for David van der Mewlen(sp??). and Dawie Groenwald and you will get a glimpse of the bullshit that is tolerated. when Van der Mewlen disappeared a few years back he left 20-25 hunters who had bought SCI donation hunts high and dry. SCI had to scramble quickly in damage control mode, even though the hand writing had been on the wall for several years( just like OoA Adventurous Safaris). my guess is that SCI will go ahead and auction this hunt and worry about legality later. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Jerry my bud you underestimate them  martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com www.martinpieterssafaris.com " hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on" | |||
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no Mart, the only thing i underestimated in the past was the SCI's tolerance of unethical/illegal behavior. when past president Mike Simpson admitted a few years ago under oath in a court deposition to shooting a moose from a chopper in Russia( his excuse being that the Russian Game Dept OFFICIAL WITH THEM SAID IT WAS "LEGAL") and SCI did nothing about it- well, the handwriting was on the wall for all to see- if they cared to read it- and i read it and moved on. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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AMEN!!! | |||
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Easiest way to avoid a lot of problems or at least reduce risk is never buy a hunt IN ZIMBABWE from a South African outfitter. Either at auction or directly. Sure there are OK operators that may hire a reputable Zimbabwean PH but ... While a few years ago, only one South African outfitter I know wasn't offering open or secret hunts "North across the border". One guy was very reputable and turned down opportunities "North across the border". Not saying the outfitters wouldn't be able to offer client satisfaction and did or did not have a Zim PH on hand. But why not just go straight to the Zim outfitters/PH's in the first place. Best solution is to remove the loophole of allowing a Zim PH to be hired by outside outfitters to "make it legal". | |||
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In fairness to the PHASA and the fine folks in RSA, I'd like to point out that statement is completely incorrect. PHASA is the Professional Hunter's Association of RSA and they have no Governmental or legal prosecution powers. All they can do is expel a member for unprofessional conduct and they expelled DG many years before the rhino issue raised it's ugly head and they did it for other reasons entirely. There were also some of us in RSA and elsewhere who tried for many years to get other organisations (such as SCI) to do something about OoA & DG well before the rhino issue was raised. On the wider issue of RSA PHs hunting elsewhere in Africa: Before we condemn all the PHs from an entire country, I'd like to point out that most African countries (including RSA & Zim) allow what's generally known as cover hunting to take place. Cover hunting is where a PH from one country is allowed to operate in another African country as long as a locally licenced PH is in attendance and all visa and work permits are correctly issued and paid for...... In fact, I can't (at the moment) think of a single African country (where hunting is allowed) that specifically forbids cover hunting to take place. The main reason for cover hunting is where a client wants to hunt in an area or country with his regular PH but that PH lacks the relevent/local licence......... and incidentally, many Zim PHs, including a fair number of well known ones, cover hunt in other African countries on a regular basis. There's nothing wrong with it and if done correctly is perfectly legal and above board. Another issue that should be addressed is the fact that for every RSA (or other) operator that offers dodgy hunts in Zim there almost certainly has to a dodgy Zimbabwean also involved and whether they be black, white, pink or purple and/or game dept staff or otherwise and they also must be tracked down, punished and put out of business. However, as far as I'm concerned, these fly by night operators and flaky bastards wherever they're from and whatever colour their skin, who do operate outside the law and/or in illegal areas, all deserve to be tied to a tree for leopard bait. All that said, let's be sure to not throw out the baby with the bath water. | |||
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In a nutshell there Steve + 1  | |||
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THANKS Steve.Very nicely put. South Africa is big and has a massive hunting industry, WERE NOT ALL CROOKS. How many NON Zimbabwean, Tanzanian, Mozambiquean Booking agents offer hunts in said countries, is that illegal too if the booking agent offers to go along to see that his client is well treated etc. Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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FWIW, the legalities, legitimacies and problems etc of cover hunting is a subject I examine in Chapter 6 of my book. | |||
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The word on the street...is that a lion was shot by a paying client accompanied by a PH last week without a permit on woodlands estate just outside of vic falls. Anyone hear anything about that? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I heard the exact same as you! Martin or anyone, have any facts/details as to whether its accurate info?? | |||
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Sad state of affairs! ........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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excellent points and i stand corrected! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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