quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I think I can point out a major difference. There is a new thread over at Africa Hunting. It was started last night. It is titled as follows:

SCI QUESTIONS AND SUGGESTIONS-MAKE THEM HERE!

Not only that, they have the president and the CEO of SCI agreeing to participate.

Guess how many posts there have been? As of 3:30 east coast time, There are a grand total of two! Two!

I think that shows that they are fundamentally different that AR over there.

There's a few more posts on that thread now. You might be surprised at the common concerns AH has regarding SCI as does AR.

I am a member there too. I post a lot more there than I do here. Somewhat on the topic of the thread first. I find both of these websites to have their pros/cons. So I post there more often for a couple of reasons, but I very much appreciate the information that I can often get here that I can't get there.

As a previous poster suggested, a blending of the good here with the good there, would be in my mind a very good thing. I would never try to "recruit" from one website to another and won't now as I've seen done. But why not get an AH account too, and then you can add to that thread? You have a lot of African hunting experience and I'm sure would bring something to the thread.

Not sure what prompted the OP to start this thread. But it has prompted an air of "we're good and they're bad" mentality. As such the thread has been much more inclined to promote division within our hunting ranks. I think we've had enough division.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I think I can point out a major difference. There is a new thread over at Africa Hunting. It was started last night. It is titled as follows:

SCI QUESTIONS AND SUGGESTIONS-MAKE THEM HERE!

Not only that, they have the president and the CEO of SCI agreeing to participate.

Guess how many posts there have been? As of 3:30 east coast time, There are a grand total of two! Two!

I think that shows that they are fundamentally different that AR over there.

There's a few more posts on that thread now. You might be surprised at the common concerns AH has regarding SCI as does AR.

I am a member there too. I post a lot more there than I do here. Somewhat on the topic of the thread first. I find both of these websites to have their pros/cons. So I post there more often for a couple of reasons, but I very much appreciate the information that I can often get here that I can't get there.

As a previous poster suggested, a blending of the good here with the good there, would be in my mind a very good thing. I would never try to "recruit" from one website to another and won't now as I've seen done. But why not get an AH account too, and then you can add to that thread? You have a lot of African hunting experience and I'm sure would bring something to the thread.

Not sure what prompted the OP to start this thread. But it has prompted an air of "we're good and they're bad" mentality. As such the thread has been much more inclined to promote division within our hunting ranks. I think we've had enough division.

Banning the mention of another website is creating a division!

How stupid is that policy??

We never stopped anyone mentioning or linking to another hunting site.
In fact we encourage it.

Our policy has always been the more hunting sources available the better.


Anyone who thinks SCI is actually willing to listen to us as hunters is living in cuckoo land!

When have they ever listened?

How long have we been hearing this argument?

Has anything ever changed?

As I mentioned above, each time a new president is installed, we hear that better times are coming, as he will magically transform it to what is supposed to be in the first place. Instead of having been turned into an exclusive club of competing non hunters dreaming of being hunters.

Breaking every law wherever they hunt, striving to beat the other nutcase with a bigger trophy!

SCI has done an enormous amount of damage to hunting by turning it into a rich man's contest.

You do not believe me?

Look at those who have so many trophies in the SCI record book, and look at where they got them from.

You will easily see the specialist industry they created, just to satisfy this sick craving of MINE IS BIGGER than yours.

quote:

For that to happen we're going to need to have hunting organizations fighting the battle.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The President and CEO of SCI, or anyone else for that matter, is very welcome to participate on any discussion on AR.

But, I somehow doubt that an organization run like SCI by idiots with their own heads stuck up their own rear ends would ever do such a thing.

If they ever manage to extricate their heads out from their collective arses and just for one minute think of doing something useful for hunters, then they would participate and listen to what real hunters wish to see.

Trouble is, they have been brain washed by the MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOURS nutcases with lots of money and zero hunting common sense.

Anyone wishes to bet how many of those INNER CIRCLES trophies have been gotten by illegal means?

And where would SCI be once that is exposed?


Anyone with any common sense, and have seen what SCI have been doing for the past years, would know they have no wish to change.

They are nothing but a banana republic run by mentally deranged midgets when it comes to hunting.

They "can hold their own in a civil discussion"?

"Civil" discussion with SCI is well past it.

They need a revolution to change the utterly sick competitions they had created.

Just imagine, all the big shots claiming to be hunters, with dozens of so called trophies bought from crooked South African outfitters and entered in the record book as being hunted fair and square, are being exposed.

Don't hold your breath that SCI would wish to have a "civil" discussion.

How many times in the past have we heard that the new president is the one who is going to change it for the better?

Did it ever happen??

They are the same.

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The President and CEO of SCI, or anyone else for that matter, is very welcome to participate on any discussion on AR.

But, I somehow doubt that an organization run like SCI by idiots with their own heads stuck up their own rear ends would ever do such a thing.

If they ever manage to extricate their heads out from their collective arses and just for one minute think of doing something useful for hunters, then they would participate and listen to what real hunters wish to see.

Trouble is, they have been brain washed by the MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOURS nutcases with lots of money and zero hunting common sense.

Anyone wishes to bet how many of those INNER CIRCLES trophies have been gotten by illegal means?

And where would SCI be once that is exposed?


Anyone with any common sense, and have seen what SCI have been doing for the past years, would know they have no wish to change.

They are nothing but a banana republic run by mentally deranged midgets when it comes to hunting.

They "can hold their own in a civil discussion"?

"Civil" discussion with SCI is well past it.

They need a revolution to change the utterly sick competitions they had created.

Just imagine, all the big shots claiming to be hunters, with dozens of so called trophies bought from crooked South African outfitters and entered in the record book as being hunted fair and square, are being exposed.

Don't hold your breath that SCI would wish to have a "civil" discussion.

How many times in the past have we heard that the new president is the one who is going to change it for the better?

Did it ever happen??

They are the same.

Good morning Saeed, and everyone here.

Saeed, I don't think we have every met or ever had any real correspondence, but you are very quick to pass judgement. I am fully aware SCI's reputation and I understand the basis of it, but the fact of the matter is that SCI has evolved and is evolving into what I believe is a better organization. SCI is certainly far from perfect, but I am just one person trying to make a difference and there are many others that are currently serving on the board that want to make a difference. It's difficult to come here and not be defensive when reading your comments and comments of some others as is sounds much like the liberals when the go after hunters and gun owners and paint them all with the same brush. It's the old adage, don't confuse me with the facts, because my mind is already made up. I went on African Hunter's forum because Royal took the time to contact me to ask me questions and share concerns, just as Larry Shores and Mike Burke have done. I've communicated with Royal recently, and Larry and Mike for quite a bit longer and none of these folks have ever been bashful about sharing their opinions, making suggestion, offering critiques, etc. I welcome it, but I don't recall you ever reaching out to me or anyone for that matter at SCI to do any of these things. Again, it it the same sort of mentality we see with liberal and mainstream media, they just choose to report what they want to, regardless of whether is is factual or not and continue spread their propaganda, until it sinks in with the masses who simply take it for gospel.

I signed up on here a few years ago at the request of Matt Graham who approached me with the idea of starting an online chapter via Accurate Reloading and establishing a chapter board. The reason being is the chapter President would then be an SCI board member, could attend the board meetings and have vote on the board(any SCI Member can attend the board meetings). This would at least allow the person who would hold the position of Chapter President could at at least provide this forum with facts about what is going on. As it turns out, nothing happened with this, which is unfortunate as I believe Matt really tried to get 24 other folks to sign up. Takes 25 people to charter a chapter.

This all being said, I know Mike Burke has come to the May board meeting to participate in lobby day and he is a founding member of a very successful chapter. It's easy to sit at a keyboard, and throw stones, complain and spread rumors and propaganda, but it's a whole different story to get involved. If we are unhappy with the way things are going, we can choose to do nothing and be part of the problem or we can get involved to try to make a difference and be part of the solution. I chose the latter when I was joined SCI years ago and joined my local chapter some time later.

You mention the record book, I personally don't have any entries in the record book. I'm not knocking the record book itself as I have said many times, it is a great record of taxonomic information, but it's just not my thing, I don't participate in any of the awards program, but yet you make the statement above and imply that we hunt illegally? I will be the first to say that there have been SCI members who have broken the law just as there have been hunters in other organizations and hunters in general who have committed wildlife violations. That would be akin to me making a general statement about members of this forum simply base on your comments alone.

Saeed, I have to wonder what has been done to you personally to motivate you to espouse such propaganda about a large group of hunters who share the same passion that you do? Every group has it's problems and I am sure this group has it's share of problems, but the closed minded attitude you are exhibiting is shockingly similar to the attitude we see with the liberals/democrats here in the U.S. as well as the anti-hunters, and anti-gun activists. I hate to keep repeating myself, but I can't help but think back on the comments you and others here have made, but yet I have never heard from any of you except Royal, Larry, Mike, and Matt.

You say SCI is well past a Civil discussion? Have you ever engaged SCI in a civil discussion? I may be President of SCI and my term started 1July2017, but SCI is not a dictatorship where I just changes policies, procedures at will. The SCI executive committee, answers to the larger SCI board, and it is a large board, as every chapter President is a board member. Have you ever been involved with a chapter? Seen the good work the chapters do? Have you ever attended an SCI board meeting? I invite you to attend the SCI Board meeting in May in Washington, D.C. as my guest. I'll even put you on the agenda and give you the floor to address the board to share your opinion and the opinion of your members here. Come and be a part of the solution. Being SCI President is an elected volunteer position, so I don't get paid, nor do any of my fellow board members, and despite popular belief, I don't get free hunts, free guns, free gear, free anything as it is against SCI policies. I understand that this sort of behavior has happened in the past and even may occur now, but I can assure you if I find out, I will not hesitate to remedy the situation.

I'm not naieve, and I have a strong feeling that this whole rant may indeed fall on deaf ears, but again, I am just one person trying to make a difference, trying to make SCI a better organization with my own small contribution and it is offensive to me to read some of these comments when I know so many great hunter/conservationists that are volunteering in the local chapters, and and the international level, taking time away from work, family, at considerable expense to themselves to fight for the freedom to hunt. All this while Monday morning quarterbacks, sit at their keyboards and take pot shots, post rumor, propaganda, etc. It's a real shame as I used to be an avid handloader when I had more time to shoot, and hope to get back to it again when I have more time again. This could be a great site for information and idea sharing instead of an forum to whine, complain, and bash SCI. We are all hunters we share a passion for hunting, regardless of whether you hunt big game, small game, birds, etc. As hunters we should work together to protect what we have.

There is no questions that we will not always agree 100%, but I am certain that even on this forum we will probably agree on at least 70%, so why can't we work on the things we DO agree on for the betterment of the hunting community?

Saeed, I am asking you to become part of the solution, and I am asking all of your members to become part of the solution. Let's figure out what we can agree on and work on together and move forward, rather than let the liberal media and anti hunting activists divide us even more! For the record, I am a long time member of DSC, HSC, NRA, and too many others to name, and support them as well and encourage everyone to support them, as we are all in this together.

Somewhere in a another post, you asked "What is SCI doing for hunting?" I'm trying to show you now, and I would pose the same question to you and your members. Ask yourself, What have you done for hunting?

Lastly, I am going to be travelling for a week or two and will reply when I can. I will try to log on later, as I am sure this post will make me public enemy #1, but I'm happy to reply when I can.

Thanks for listening/reading,

Paul Babaz

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The President and CEO of SCI, or anyone else for that matter, is very welcome to participate on any discussion on AR.

But, I somehow doubt that an organization run like SCI by idiots with their own heads stuck up their own rear ends would ever do such a thing.

If they ever manage to extricate their heads out from their collective arses and just for one minute think of doing something useful for hunters, then they would participate and listen to what real hunters wish to see.

Trouble is, they have been brain washed by the MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOURS nutcases with lots of money and zero hunting common sense.

Anyone wishes to bet how many of those INNER CIRCLES trophies have been gotten by illegal means?

And where would SCI be once that is exposed?


Anyone with any common sense, and have seen what SCI have been doing for the past years, would know they have no wish to change.

They are nothing but a banana republic run by mentally deranged midgets when it comes to hunting.

They "can hold their own in a civil discussion"?

"Civil" discussion with SCI is well past it.

They need a revolution to change the utterly sick competitions they had created.

Just imagine, all the big shots claiming to be hunters, with dozens of so called trophies bought from crooked South African outfitters and entered in the record book as being hunted fair and square, are being exposed.

Don't hold your breath that SCI would wish to have a "civil" discussion.

How many times in the past have we heard that the new president is the one who is going to change it for the better?

Did it ever happen??

They are the same.

Good morning Saeed, and everyone here.

Saeed, I don't think we have every met or ever had any real correspondence, but you are very quick to pass judgement. I am fully aware SCI's reputation and I understand the basis of it, but the fact of the matter is that SCI has evolved and is evolving into what I believe is a better organization. SCI is certainly far from perfect, but I am just one person trying to make a difference and there are many others that are currently serving on the board that want to make a difference. It's difficult to come here and not be defensive when reading your comments and comments of some others as is sounds much like the liberals when the go after hunters and gun owners and paint them all with the same brush. It's the old adage, don't confuse me with the facts, because my mind is already made up. I went on African Hunter's forum because Royal took the time to contact me to ask me questions and share concerns, just as Larry Shores and Mike Burke have done. I've communicated with Royal recently, and Larry and Mike for quite a bit longer and none of these folks have ever been bashful about sharing their opinions, making suggestion, offering critiques, etc. I welcome it, but I don't recall you ever reaching out to me or anyone for that matter at SCI to do any of these things. Again, it it the same sort of mentality we see with liberal and mainstream media, they just choose to report what they want to, regardless of whether is is factual or not and continue spread their propaganda, until it sinks in with the masses who simply take it for gospel.

I signed up on here a few years ago at the request of Matt Graham who approached me with the idea of starting an online chapter via Accurate Reloading and establishing a chapter board. The reason being is the chapter President would then be an SCI board member, could attend the board meetings and have vote on the board(any SCI Member can attend the board meetings). This would at least allow the person who would hold the position of Chapter President could at at least provide this forum with facts about what is going on. As it turns out, nothing happened with this, which is unfortunate as I believe Matt really tried to get 24 other folks to sign up. Takes 25 people to charter a chapter.

This all being said, I know Mike Burke has come to the May board meeting to participate in lobby day and he is a founding member of a very successful chapter. It's easy to sit at a keyboard, and throw stones, complain and spread rumors and propaganda, but it's a whole different story to get involved. If we are unhappy with the way things are going, we can choose to do nothing and be part of the problem or we can get involved to try to make a difference and be part of the solution. I chose the latter when I was joined SCI years ago and joined my local chapter some time later.

You mention the record book, I personally don't have any entries in the record book. I'm not knocking the record book itself as I have said many times, it is a great record of taxonomic information, but it's just not my thing, I don't participate in any of the awards program, but yet you make the statement above and imply that we hunt illegally? I will be the first to say that there have been SCI members who have broken the law just as there have been hunters in other organizations and hunters in general who have committed wildlife violations. That would be akin to me making a general statement about members of this forum simply base on your comments alone.

Saeed, I have to wonder what has been done to you personally to motivate you to espouse such propaganda about a large group of hunters who share the same passion that you do? Every group has it's problems and I am sure this group has it's share of problems, but the closed minded attitude you are exhibiting is shockingly similar to the attitude we see with the liberals/democrats here in the U.S. as well as the anti-hunters, and anti-gun activists. I hate to keep repeating myself, but I can't help but think back on the comments you and others here have made, but yet I have never heard from any of you except Royal, Larry, Mike, and Matt.

You say SCI is well past a Civil discussion? Have you ever engaged SCI in a civil discussion? I may be President of SCI and my term started 1July2017, but SCI is not a dictatorship where I just changes policies, procedures at will. The SCI executive committee, answers to the larger SCI board, and it is a large board, as every chapter President is a board member. Have you ever been involved with a chapter? Seen the good work the chapters do? Have you ever attended an SCI board meeting? I invite you to attend the SCI Board meeting in May in Washington, D.C. as my guest. I'll even put you on the agenda and give you the floor to address the board to share your opinion and the opinion of your members here. Come and be a part of the solution. Being SCI President is an elected volunteer position, so I don't get paid, nor do any of my fellow board members, and despite popular belief, I don't get free hunts, free guns, free gear, free anything as it is against SCI policies. I understand that this sort of behavior has happened in the past and even may occur now, but I can assure you if I find out, I will not hesitate to remedy the situation.

I'm not naieve, and I have a strong feeling that this whole rant may indeed fall on deaf ears, but again, I am just one person trying to make a difference, trying to make SCI a better organization with my own small contribution and it is offensive to me to read some of these comments when I know so many great hunter/conservationists that are volunteering in the local chapters, and and the international level, taking time away from work, family, at considerable expense to themselves to fight for the freedom to hunt. All this while Monday morning quarterbacks, sit at their keyboards and take pot shots, post rumor, propaganda, etc. It's a real shame as I used to be an avid handloader when I had more time to shoot, and hope to get back to it again when I have more time again. This could be a great site for information and idea sharing instead of an forum to whine, complain, and bash SCI. We are all hunters we share a passion for hunting, regardless of whether you hunt big game, small game, birds, etc. As hunters we should work together to protect what we have.

There is no questions that we will not always agree 100%, but I am certain that even on this forum we will probably agree on at least 70%, so why can't we work on the things we DO agree on for the betterment of the hunting community?

Saeed, I am asking you to become part of the solution, and I am asking all of your members to become part of the solution. Let's figure out what we can agree on and work on together and move forward, rather than let the liberal media and anti hunting activists divide us even more! For the record, I am a long time member of DSC, HSC, NRA, and too many others to name, and support them as well and encourage everyone to support them, as we are all in this together.

Somewhere in a another post, you asked "What is SCI doing for hunting?" I'm trying to show you now, and I would pose the same question to you and your members. Ask yourself, What have you done for hunting?

Lastly, I am going to be travelling for a week or two and will reply when I can. I will try to log on later, as I am sure this post will make me public enemy #1, but I'm happy to reply when I can.

Thanks for listening/reading,

Paul Babaz

Welcome to AR Paul.

I do hope that you will be able to deliver on some of these promise.

I am sure you are sincere in your efforts, but at the end of the day, actions speak louder than words.

You are asking me what I have done for hunting??

I have not taken a penny from anyone, and made any claim that I am FIRST FOR HUNTERS.

What I do I do it privately.

I do not need any publicity.

But, since you have asked, I will tell that I have spent quite a bit of money for anti poaching in several countries, including Kenya, Tanzania and Zimbabwe.

I have helped others maintain waterholes.

I have helped those in our industry who have been unlucky to loose part of their livelihood due to accidents involved while hunting.

What I do, I do because I want to do it.

I have no wish for publicity or recognition.

The same way I hunt.

Because I like it.

Hunting is most definitely is NOT a competition.

And despite what you have said about the recipients of some of the SCI awards are actually proper hunter, I guarantee you many of them are only in it for glorifying themselves.

But, let us get over that little pesky argument, I am sure it is not going to go away anytime soon.

I honestly wish you the best of luck in getting SCI to do what we all wish to see being done.

quote:

Originally posted by Hank2211:
Well said Paul. I think the engaging with hunters direct through this forum and AH shows a significant level of commitment to open dialogue on your part. I applaud you for that.

You don't have to agree with everything an organization does, but running away is not the answer, nor is resigning, or deciding to sit on the sidelines and gripe, carp and complain. It's just a cop out. To those people, I'd say that cynicism hasn't been cool for a long time. Get in the game.

Thanks for posting.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Paul, if SCI wants to help hunters and increase participation, it could start by making convention attendance not so damn expensive. To take a spouse, you must first join the club(+/- $100), then pony up another +/-$800 for 4 days attendance. DSC requires no membership- just walk up and pay $50/ day admission. As far as past SCI leadership goes, we all remember the door gunner award a previous SCI president won for shooting a Russian moose from a helicopter. And I believe he is still a member.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I also remember the attempted AR SCI chapter.

I and at least 12 others here(that many said something to me) many of whom are life members of SCI signed on with Matt to do this. That was the last of it I heard here.

I ran in to Matt at the convention the following year and asked him about it.

I don’t know just how truthful he was with me then...that was just as his business was falling apart if I recall correctly.

In the essence he said the idea fell apart on three or four issues.

1. The need to generate a certain level of income from fundraising.

2. A certain amount of dislike of a non regional chapter and its being seen as drawing support from currently established chapters by SCI.

3. The general negativity towards SCI of some of the more prominent members here.

4. The need to have meetings that would not be viewable by all AR members was apparently an issue as well, both from the AR end and the SCI end from what he said.

I offered to do what I could, but Matt basically said that ship had sunk at its moorings. I was hardly a confidant of Matt’s, just a guy talking about buying a hunt and doing my due diligence at the time. He was somewhat depressed about the whole thing, for whatever reason, but finding 25 members who would sign on was not an issue at all per him to me, he stated there were plenty of folks willing.

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Paul, if SCI wants to help hunters and increase participation, it could start by making convention attendance not so damn expensive. To take a spouse, you must first join the club(+/- $100), then pony up another +/-$800 for 4 days attendance. DSC requires no membership- just walk up and pay $50/ day admission. As far as past SCI leadership goes, we all remember the door gunner award a previous SCI president won for shooting a Russian moose from a helicopter. And I believe he is still a member.

Jdollar,

I had this same suggestion on the African Hunting forum in regards to the cost of convention. I understand the expense, and sympathize as bringing my wife and 3 daughters does get a bit pricey! We have had this conversation before and have had it with our exhibitors as well and we often hear that they feel that the folks that are paying a bit more to come to SCI's convention are somewhat "Pre-Qualified Buyers" as they paid to be there and are serious about booking hunts, buying guns versus someone coming by and grabbing a bunch of brochures for their bag and walking on which they refer to as "Tire Kickers". Keep in mind, this is what we hear back from exhibitors. I do wish we could make the show more affordable as I would always like to see more folks attend and see more younger folks attend as a lot of young people just starting careers, families, etc may not be able to attend when the cost is factored in. DSC does a great show with some great volunteers, and I would encourage you to join DSC if you attend their show even though you don't have to be a member. I've heard folks talk about the price of membership, and I always remind folks of the great work all the hunting organizations do, and we need to support where we can within our own personal budgets. I do hope you find your way to an SCI convention and take a minute to introduce yourself and your wife.

Lastly, I will ask Rick Parsons to join this forum as Rick is also an attorney and could probably address this better then I. I don't believe I can comment as certain issues are deal with in confidential board sessions and cannot to be discussed outside of board members.


Thanks for taking the time to comment and offer suggestions. We may not be able to act on every suggestion, as somethings are simply a business decision.

Good hunting, Paul

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Paul, if SCI wants to help hunters and increase participation, it could start by making convention attendance not so damn expensive. To take a spouse, you must first join the club(+/- $100), then pony up another +/-$800 for 4 days attendance. DSC requires no membership- just walk up and pay $50/ day admission. As far as past SCI leadership goes, we all remember the door gunner award a previous SCI president won for shooting a Russian moose from a helicopter. And I believe he is still a member.

Jdollar,

I had this same suggestion on the African Hunting forum in regards to the cost of convention. I understand the expense, and sympathize as bringing my wife and 3 daughters does get a bit pricey! We have had this conversation before and have had it with our exhibitors as well and we often hear that they feel that the folks that are paying a bit more to come to SCI's convention are somewhat "Pre-Qualified Buyers" as they paid to be there and are serious about booking hunts, buying guns versus someone coming by and grabbing a bunch of brochures for their bag and walking on which they refer to as "Tire Kickers". Keep in mind, this is what we hear back from exhibitors. I do wish we could make the show more affordable as I would always like to see more folks attend and see more younger folks attend as a lot of young people just starting careers, families, etc may not be able to attend when the cost is factored in. DSC does a great show with some great volunteers, and I would encourage you to join DSC if you attend their show even though you don't have to be a member. I've heard folks talk about the price of membership, and I always remind folks of the great work all the hunting organizations do, and we need to support where we can within our own personal budgets. I do hope you find your way to an SCI convention and take a minute to introduce yourself and your wife.

Lastly, I will ask Rick Parsons to join this forum as Rick is also an attorney and could probably address this better then I. I don't believe I can comment as certain issues are deal with in confidential board sessions and cannot to be discussed outside of board members.


Thanks for taking the time to comment and offer suggestions. We may not be able to act on every suggestion, as somethings are simply a business decision.

Good hunting, Paul

Paul
We are very happy to have you on here which is a great step. There are many SCI members here.
I have been a Life Member for a number of years personally as example.
Many have felt SCI has not been on the right path for a number or reasons for a number of years.
I’m replying because of one thing you say above I frankly have a hard time believing.
I don’t buy the “pre qualified buyer” remark at all (please no offense)
That is also like saying that DSC is for “Riff Raff” and yet the exhibitors are largely the same and I’ve never heard such a thing once.
I’ll open the question to our group..anyone here ever hear an exhibitor say such a thing?
I know that I know many of them personally....
I do like coming to SCI and I’m one of the folks that greatly prefer Vegas to Reno
I do feel that SCI is not only a bit prohibitive but they have NO DOUBT fuled the very growth of DSC etc

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Saeed, time will tell. Here’s hoping!

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

@crbutler Thanks for the comments, as I never heard back on what happened with this idea, but I appreciate the update. I didn't get a chance to visit with Matt much this past year, and I was not aware of his business situation. I'm not sure if Matt is on here much, but he's a great guy, and I hope business is better! I'm not sure about all the reasons for the idea not taking off, but I understand the context in which Matt shared.

Thanks again, and good hunting, Paul

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

@crbutler Thanks for the comments, as I never heard back on what happened with this idea, but I appreciate the update. I didn't get a chance to visit with Matt much this past year, and I was not aware of his business situation. I'm not sure if Matt is on here much, but he's a great guy, and I hope business is better! I'm not sure about all the reasons for the idea not taking off, but I understand the context in which Matt shared.

Thanks again, and good hunting, Paul

Paul,

Matt died a couple years back of a heart attack.

Probably why you didn't hear any more from him.

Chuck Butler

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

@crbutler Thanks for the comments, as I never heard back on what happened with this idea, but I appreciate the update. I didn't get a chance to visit with Matt much this past year, and I was not aware of his business situation. I'm not sure if Matt is on here much, but he's a great guy, and I hope business is better! I'm not sure about all the reasons for the idea not taking off, but I understand the context in which Matt shared.

Thanks again, and good hunting, Paul

Paul,

Matt died a couple years back of a heart attack.

Probably why you didn't hear any more from him.

Chuck Butler

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

@crbutler Thanks for the comments, as I never heard back on what happened with this idea, but I appreciate the update. I didn't get a chance to visit with Matt much this past year, and I was not aware of his business situation. I'm not sure if Matt is on here much, but he's a great guy, and I hope business is better! I'm not sure about all the reasons for the idea not taking off, but I understand the context in which Matt shared.

Thanks again, and good hunting, Paul

Paul,

Matt died a couple years back of a heart attack.

Probably why you didn't hear any more from him.

Chuck Butler

I thought better to keep quiet and let someone else break the stale news.

For someone who was pretty much involved with and a rabid supporter of SCI, it comes as a surprise that his untimely demise was not noticed within the SCI hierarchy.

Just goes to show.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Paul, if SCI wants to help hunters and increase participation, it could start by making convention attendance not so damn expensive. To take a spouse, you must first join the club(+/- $100), then pony up another +/-$800 for 4 days attendance. DSC requires no membership- just walk up and pay $50/ day admission. As far as past SCI leadership goes, we all remember the door gunner award a previous SCI president won for shooting a Russian moose from a helicopter. And I believe he is still a member.

Jdollar,

I had this same suggestion on the African Hunting forum in regards to the cost of convention. I understand the expense, and sympathize as bringing my wife and 3 daughters does get a bit pricey! We have had this conversation before and have had it with our exhibitors as well and we often hear that they feel that the folks that are paying a bit more to come to SCI's convention are somewhat "Pre-Qualified Buyers" as they paid to be there and are serious about booking hunts, buying guns versus someone coming by and grabbing a bunch of brochures for their bag and walking on which they refer to as "Tire Kickers". Keep in mind, this is what we hear back from exhibitors. I do wish we could make the show more affordable as I would always like to see more folks attend and see more younger folks attend as a lot of young people just starting careers, families, etc may not be able to attend when the cost is factored in. DSC does a great show with some great volunteers, and I would encourage you to join DSC if you attend their show even though you don't have to be a member. I've heard folks talk about the price of membership, and I always remind folks of the great work all the hunting organizations do, and we need to support where we can within our own personal budgets. I do hope you find your way to an SCI convention and take a minute to introduce yourself and your wife.

Lastly, I will ask Rick Parsons to join this forum as Rick is also an attorney and could probably address this better then I. I don't believe I can comment as certain issues are deal with in confidential board sessions and cannot to be discussed outside of board members.


Thanks for taking the time to comment and offer suggestions. We may not be able to act on every suggestion, as somethings are simply a business decision.

Good hunting, Paul

Paul
We are very happy to have you on here which is a great step. There are many SCI members here.
I have been a Life Member for a number of years personally as example.
Many have felt SCI has not been on the right path for a number or reasons for a number of years.
I’m replying because of one thing you say above I frankly have a hard time believing.
I don’t buy the “pre qualified buyer” remark at all (please no offense)
That is also like saying that DSC is for “Riff Raff” and yet the exhibitors are largely the same and I’ve never heard such a thing once.
I’ll open the question to our group..anyone here ever hear an exhibitor say such a thing?
I know that I know many of them personally....
I do like coming to SCI and I’m one of the folks that greatly prefer Vegas to Reno
I do feel that SCI is not only a bit prohibitive but they have NO DOUBT fuled the very growth of DSC etc

Actually, yes, I have heard what he is getting at but not those exact words. I have heard many say that the SCI show is where most of their sales are made. More checks are written there. They are not disparaging DSC at all. It is simply an observation on their part.

quote:

Originally posted by Hank2211:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by PaulBabaz:

@crbutler Thanks for the comments, as I never heard back on what happened with this idea, but I appreciate the update. I didn't get a chance to visit with Matt much this past year, and I was not aware of his business situation. I'm not sure if Matt is on here much, but he's a great guy, and I hope business is better! I'm not sure about all the reasons for the idea not taking off, but I understand the context in which Matt shared.

Thanks again, and good hunting, Paul

Paul,

Matt died a couple years back of a heart attack.

Probably why you didn't hear any more from him.

Chuck Butler

I thought better to keep quiet and let someone else break the stale news.

For someone who was pretty much involved with and a rabid supporter of SCI, it comes as a surprise that his untimely demise was not noticed within the SCI hierarchy.

Just goes to show.

Seriously? There could be lots of good reasons why Paul and others in SCI were not aware of this tragic event, including, but not limited to,

1. Most SCI people are volunteers, who have other lives they need to get on with. Time is at a premium for those who have jobs and also donate their time to help others, many of whom are ungrateful, but no less happy to reap the benefits;

2. The news wasn't widely known or shared - note that Saeed wasn't aware of it either, and he's pretty involved in all things hunting.

3. Some people don't gossip as much as others.

4. Sad but true that life goes on when any of us dies, and those who are left behind by and large get on with the business of life, which means that our death slowly recedes into the back of people's minds.

But what the heck. Let's just assume that no one at SCI cares about anyone. Bashing SCI for any reason, regardless of merit, will make some of us feel great, so what the heck. Have at it!

There are plenty of good reasons for taking a run at SCI. It hurts those good arguments when arguments such as these are made.