Different strokes for different folks.

I post on AH a lot, and here very little. I prefer manners and a little decorum over the free for all that occurs here. But again, that's just me. This site has valuable information and so I lurk and read, but I don't participate. I especially appreciate the outside of SA experience that AR has.

I agree with those who say that AH moderates too much, and especially the deletion of the AR and other site references. It serves no purpose IMO and drives away experienced posters like FROSTBIT and ANDREW BALDRY as prime examples. I've spoken to Jerome about this, but it's his site and his choice, just as AR is Saeed's site and his choice. I have no problem with edits and deletions when things go too far, which actually doesn't happen very often on AH as members self moderate more often than not. If it was my site, which it isn't, I'd edit and delete less, but edit and delete I would.

I also have no issue with sponsors for ads. It's called free enterprise and that's certainly not a flaw, it's a business model. For those of you who question the profit motive, well, I'm surprised that you'll hunt with someone who is trying to make a profit, or buy from a store that works on a profit. If I thought AH was trying to advantage a sponsor through deletion of criticism I'd have a different opinion, but I've seen sponsors not only criticized, but also banned for breaking forum rules.

We have choice for a reason. Try both, and go where you fit best.

quote:

Originally posted by royal27:
Different strokes for different folks.

I post on AH a lot, and here very little. I prefer manners and a little decorum over the free for all that occurs here. But again, that's just me. This site has valuable information and so I lurk and read, but I don't participate. I especially appreciate the outside of SA experience that AR has.

I agree with those who say that AH moderates too much, and especially the deletion of the AR and other site references. It serves no purpose IMO and drives away experienced posters like FROSTBIT and ANDREW BALDRY as prime examples. I've spoken to Jerome about this, but it's his site and his choice, just as AR is Saeed's site and his choice. I have no problem with edits and deletions when things go too far, which actually doesn't happen very often on AH as members self moderate more often than not. If it was my site, which it isn't, I'd edit and delete less, but edit and delete I would.

I also have no issue with sponsors for ads. It's called free enterprise and that's certainly not a flaw, it's a business model. For those of you who question the profit motive, well, I'm surprised that you'll hunt with someone who is trying to make a profit, or buy from a store that works on a profit. If I thought AH was trying to advantage a sponsor through deletion of criticism I'd have a different opinion, but I've seen sponsors not only criticized, but also banned for breaking forum rules.

We have choice for a reason. Try both, and go where you fit best.

+1



AR and AH are two different business models run by two different people for two different reasons.

AR is run at the pleasure and generosity of Saeed. Money doesn't seem to be an issue and we are fortunate to be beneficiaries of his passion and love for hunting. I don't know if Saeed has put a plan in place for AR to run in perpetuity upon his death. If so, fantastic! If not, we are all looser's.

AH is run to make a profit. I do not know Jerome's financial status, but I presume it is not the same as Saeed's. Jerome is passionate about hunting. Especially Africa. He has found a way to make a livelihood doing something he loves. We should all be so fortunate. Yes, sponsors are required to pay. Could that pose a conflict of interest? Certainly, but I am not aware of anytime that has happened to the determent of the hunter. I am aware as Royal has mentioned of Sponsor's being run off. Does editing occur? Yes. I am not a fan of editing the mention of AR on AH. As a consumer of hunting, I feel I am poorer for not having the cross referencing. AH however, is not my livelihood. If I have a business and need to capture eyes and keep them on my site for more mouse clicks, I may not want to encourage customers to leave either. Possibly in the early days of AH that was necessary, now I don't think it is so. I would like to see that change.

One thing that Jerome is trying to do that I admire, is to make AH a repository of all things hunting in Africa, including photos. That is probably why AH may load slower sometimes, because the photos that are being saved for posterity. In a generation or two, the hunting we will have done will be called the "good old days by our grandchildren!" What will happen to AH when Jerome dies? I don't know. Profitable companies tend to be very marketable, so there is a good chance that AH will survive Jerome.


We are all fortunate to have choices. My hat is off to both Saeed and Jerome for giving us the opportunity to share our passions! Prost!

A friend of mine wanted me to join over there, as he apparently gets on with the owner and wanted me to make some comments. I tried joining AH back several years ago at that point. I never got it quite done... filled out the form and wasn’t able to log in... looks like it didn’t take... but strangely enough, it did take my email and I do get marketing emails from them. Neither here or there, but while once in a blue moon I will lurk over there, I don’t post.

What lurking I did there, I saw some pretty heavy handed moderation that was inconsistently done. After hearing Jim make the comment about his posts being edited, I really don’t want to deal with that.

I will probably continue to peek at some of the hunt reports, but I’m not going to contribute after hearing that.

quote:

Originally posted by royal27:
Different strokes for different folks.

I post on AH a lot, and here very little. I prefer manners and a little decorum over the free for all that occurs here. But again, that's just me. This site has valuable information and so I lurk and read, but I don't participate. I especially appreciate the outside of SA experience that AR has.

I agree with those who say that AH moderates too much, and especially the deletion of the AR and other site references. It serves no purpose IMO and drives away experienced posters like FROSTBIT and ANDREW BALDRY as prime examples. I've spoken to Jerome about this, but it's his site and his choice, just as AR is Saeed's site and his choice. I have no problem with edits and deletions when things go too far, which actually doesn't happen very often on AH as members self moderate more often than not. If it was my site, which it isn't, I'd edit and delete less, but edit and delete I would.

I also have no issue with sponsors for ads. It's called free enterprise and that's certainly not a flaw, it's a business model. For those of you who question the profit motive, well, I'm surprised that you'll hunt with someone who is trying to make a profit, or buy from a store that works on a profit. If I thought AH was trying to advantage a sponsor through deletion of criticism I'd have a different opinion, but I've seen sponsors not only criticized, but also banned for breaking forum rules.

We have choice for a reason. Try both, and go where you fit best.

+2.

Booked hunts off both places and met some good folks, both members and PH's/outfitters.

It would be interesting for Jerome to post a reply here. I'm sure he knows of this thread.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
It would be interesting for Jerome to post a reply here. I'm sure he knows of this thread.
Cal

Interesting yes, but to what purpose?

I don't think Jerome needs to defend himself here for the way he runs AH any more than Saeed needs to go over there and defend the way he runs AR. They are simply different, with neither being wrong, or right.

Now would I like to see some changes to both places with more cross pollination, and experience shared to the benefit of both sites and hunting in general? Absolutely!

The plethora of ads drive me nuts! Half the screen is garbage. That’s reason enough to avoid it.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
The plethora of ads drive me nuts! Half the screen is garbage. That’s reason enough to avoid it.

Sounds like someone has not heard of using an Ad Blocker. It works on other sites too. I use Ad Block.

I did a few times, lost interest pretty quick. Adds on sites really don't bother me, unless they populate the body of a message as they do over at 24 hour.

As an aside, the African forum over on 24 hour is very VERY aggressive about running off any new posters. I bet Mr. Jerry Dollar would agree. I've seen him getting hammered over there for no reason.

I signed up for the AH forum. While I look from time to time, it is a rarity. I usually look when I know that there is something posted on a subject I am interested in. I could never get excited about AH. Can’t say exactly why.

I visit a few sites that do have ads.

But these adds are not obtrusive.

Any site with an endless stream of pop ups I never go to again.

I have no use for ad blockers, nor for sites that require me use them.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
A friend of mine wanted me to join over there, as he apparently gets on with the owner and wanted me to make some comments. I tried joining AH back several years ago at that point. I never got it quite done... filled out the form and wasn’t able to log in... looks like it didn’t take... but strangely enough, it did take my email and I do get marketing emails from them. Neither here or there, but while once in a blue moon I will lurk over there, I don’t post.

What lurking I did there, I saw some pretty heavy handed moderation that was inconsistently done. After hearing Jim make the comment about his posts being edited, I really don’t want to deal with that.

I will probably continue to peek at some of the hunt reports, but I’m not going to contribute after hearing that.

I had the exact same experience. Was never able to log in, but still get all their emails.

I've enjoyed the "Legends" section because I'm an African hunting history nut, but that's about all. AR is a different place for sure. Without swelling too many heads, there is just so much experience and knowledge on these boards it's hard to beat. There's sort of a self-authenticating process here that ferrets out BS and leaves the good stuff. Not many sites on the internet like it in any field.

I lurk and post over there with some regularity. I enjoy it, but it definitely does have more of a commercial feel. I did book my hunt this past fall from an offer with an active operator on AH, it turned out to be a great time. My budget more or less keeps me in the SA/Namibia arena, AH is a great site for that. Both sites are great resources in my experience, and I'll continue to visit and enjoy both.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I did a few times, lost interest pretty quick. Adds on sites really don't bother me, unless they populate the body of a message as they do over at 24 hour.

As an aside, the African forum over on 24 hour is very VERY aggressive about running off any new posters. I bet Mr. Jerry Dollar would agree. I've seen him getting hammered over there for no reason.

Wow, I heard less whining and crying at my daughter's 6th grade slumber party 15 years ago. When you go over there acting like arrogant priicks you get what you deserve.

I go to both sites. Booked my first and second hunt through AH. Very happy with that. I believe a lot of newcomers feel it`s easier to post questions and reports on AH. Many have seen heads chopped of by many an armchair general here on AR. I believe that is felt in the section of hunting reports on AR.

Myself I don`t care if other don`t think what I do is good or bad enough. I respond to the people I care to respond to I like both sites for different reasons!

I too go to both AR and AH. Three years ago I booked a leopard hunt in Mozambique with one of the outfitters on AH. The outfitter/PH was a super guy and I hunted with him again the next year. On my first hunt there the Moderator from AH was also in camp and he was also a great guy. He was there bow hunting Sable, but the Sable weren't cooperating so I let him use my rifle to kill his beautiful Roosevelt Sable bull.

I think Both AR and AH are great websites, with each having their own good points.

AH does not have the large number of America and Trump hating and bashing trolls that AR has.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I did a few times, lost interest pretty quick. Adds on sites really don't bother me, unless they populate the body of a message as they do over at 24 hour.

As an aside, the African forum over on 24 hour is very VERY aggressive about running off any new posters. I bet Mr. Jerry Dollar would agree. I've seen him getting hammered over there for no reason.

Wow, I heard less whining and crying at my daughter's 6th grade slumber party 15 years ago. When you go over there acting like arrogant priicks you get what you deserve.

We must be reading different posts, I don't hear a bunch of whining and crying. The only negatives that I've heard are that they moderate out other website names, that there are to many Ads and some people had trouble logging on. These seem to be relatively mild criticisms.

I don't know the owner of AH so I don't presume to know his motivations but why he moderates out other site's names is strange. It reminds me of oppressive governments (N. Korea, Iran, etc.) denying that other country's citizens enjoy a higher standard of living, by controlling the information flow from the outside world.

I was on it for short time, it got out of control IMO, lots of BS that simply wasn't fact nor true..It just wasn't interesting anymore too much flaming ruins the whole point of what should be conversation. We don't have to agree and who would want that, but good intelligent information is what its all about..I didn't see that over there.

Originally posted by lrich:


...For some reason, I have had more luck selling higher end rifles on AH than AR.

Thanks again Saeed for the this site.[/QUOTE]

See, there is something positive to be said for stupid people!

Thank you Saeed.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
Yes you pay to play on there as a outfitter but it is a good site. Both of the sites are places to look at if your going to Africa or have question. Some people like it better some like it less. I like both really and see no reason not to enjoy them both for what they are.

I have made some good friends and plan on making more over the years who share the love of hunting.

Agree 100% with the above.

Regarding community, there will be over 150 AH members dining together at Gilley's next Friday night (from at least 20 states and 5 African countries).

I enjoy both sites, different as they are.


Tim

I post almost exclusively on AH. I won't repeat the posts which have already been made, but will say this -

1. The moderators take out references to other forums because it's stated in the rules that it isn't allowed. Whether you agree or not, I assume we are all - or most of us are - in favour of free enterprise, so Jerome is free to make whatever rules he wants, and to enforce them. If you don't like it, you don't have to play. Makes perfect sense to me.

2. When people want to refer to another site - and it's usually AR - they just say "the other hunting forum" or something similar and everyone knows who they mean. I don't know if those types of references have been edited out, but I've seen them often enough (and put them in myself) to think that they aren't a problem. Jerome knows that hunters are typically aware of what's out there. He hasn't got his head in the sand.

3. Some will prefer one site over the other, and that's great, it's what makes a market. Personally, I tend to favour AH, but that may be because over a decade or so, I've come to know whose posts I'm interested in and whose I'm not. Overall, I just find it more congenial for me. That may be because I haven't spent enough time here . . . but it is what it is, at least for the time being.

4. I can name sponsors that have been run off the site for behaviour which violates the rules, and I've seen posts critical of sponsors. I don't think money rules every day, all the time, but I'm not naive either.

Overall, we're lucky to have more, rather than fewer, sites to lurk and post on, so both should be encouraged.

The difference is transparency and honesty. That can be difficult to accept. Editing away negative posts means the full picture is not presented. When that does not exist, beware.

Thanks Saeed for running an open sight at great personal expense and sometimes accepting some jabs.

Best wishes to you for the New Year.

I've just joined. I only found out about this forum due to AH. I like the site, I've been able to find a lot of good information on there. I hope to do the same here. As others have said, I think the sites are definitely different but I think both are great resources.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I did a few times, lost interest pretty quick. Adds on sites really don't bother me, unless they populate the body of a message as they do over at 24 hour.

As an aside, the African forum over on 24 hour is very VERY aggressive about running off any new posters. I bet Mr. Jerry Dollar would agree. I've seen him getting hammered over there for no reason.

Wow, I heard less whining and crying at my daughter's 6th grade slumber party 15 years ago. When you go over there acting like arrogant priicks you get what you deserve.

We must be reading different posts, I don't hear a bunch of whining and crying. The only negatives that I've heard are that they moderate out other website names, that there are to many Ads and some people had trouble logging on. These seem to be relatively mild criticisms.

I don't know the owner of AH so I don't presume to know his motivations but why he moderates out other site's names is strange. It reminds me of oppressive governments (N. Korea, Iran, etc.) denying that other country's citizens enjoy a higher standard of living, by controlling the information flow from the outside world.

He was referencing 24Hour Campfire, and so was I.

quote:

Originally posted by cagkt3:
I've just joined. I only found out about this forum due to AH. I like the site, I've been able to find a lot of good information on there. I hope to do the same here. As others have said, I think the sites are definitely different but I think both are great resources.

Welcome

As many have said before both AR and AH are good sites but definitely different. There are things about both that I like and dislike.

Once upon a time AH was definitely geared more to SA plainsgame/canned lion etc. That has changed over the years. For example, Christophe Morio posts extensively there and has great information on West Africa.

I am also seeing more information at times on AH than AR. As an example, there was a Zim PH nailed by leopard in 2017. I do not remember seeing anything on AR but it was definitely on AH.

I have made posts with references to AR that are still up. I think Jerome has eased up a little on that restriction. However deleting references to AR is one of the ridiculous things about AH.

As a point of interest this thread is one of the busiest in quite a while in the Africa Hunting section on AR. Have we run out of things to discuss?

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

He was referencing 24Hour Campfire, and so was I.

Ah, my mistake. 24 HourCampfire is certainly different.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

He was referencing 24Hour Campfire, and so was I.

Ah, my mistake. 24 HourCampfire is certainly different.

The thin-skinned don't last long over there.

quote:

Originally posted by 30.06king:
[QUOTE]quote:
ntly caustic comments towards the USA but don't understand why.... Nothing similar is aimed at New Zealand so he must think us Kiwis are OK.......

Now you mention it, I do not like that silly woman you lot have chosen to rule you! clap


Rather than go off topic in this thread with lengthy comment let me just say Saeed in this respect your statement largely concurs with my own thoughts.

++100

I used to check it regularly but have not done so for a year now. I prefer the simpler format of AR and the freedom of expression found on it.
AR does not suffer fools or questionable outfitters. Sometimes it gets a little heated but you have to take the rough with the smooth.
I have also received hunt videos from Saeed and Larry Shores which I have enjoyed. Neither man knows me from a bar of soap and we live in different parts of the world. The common denominator was AR.

JCHB

I wish every website involved in hunting and shooting all the best.

I have been saying this all along, it is for our benefit to have decent websites which we can all enjoy participating on.

We try to be as unobtrusive in running the site as we can, basically let our members run it.

Each member has exactly the same access to the forums as anyone else.

I noticed on some sites that different members have different titles.

Not on AR.

We made it that after a few posts, each one becomes ONE OF US, regardless of who he is or what he does.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I wish every website involved in hunting and shooting all the best.

I have been saying this all along, it is for our benefit to have decent websites which we can all enjoy participating on.

We try to be as unobtrusive in running the site as we can, basically let our members run it.

Each member has exactly the same access to the forums as anyone else.

I noticed on some sites that different members have different titles.

Not on AR.

We made it that after a few posts, each one becomes ONE OF US, regardless of who he is or what he does.

That makes this site indeed very special

AH is 100% a business of self promotion for Jerome and his cronies. They banned me when I posted a green peace email address that was flooding my email with death threats because I was asking members there to help me push back and give them a little of their own medicine. Conservation and protection of hunting are meaningless thoughts there. Just my opinion but it is guaranteed AH is a far cry from what Saeed and AR represent. .SS

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
AH is 100% a business of self promotion for Jerome and his cronies. They banned me when I posted a green peace email address that was flooding my email with death threats because I was asking members there to help me push back and give them a little of their own medicine. Conservation and protection of hunting are meaningless thoughts there. Just my opinion but it is guaranteed AH is a far cry from what Saeed and AR represent. .SS

Without permission you asked their membership to break the law on your behalf, then whine when you're banned?

If I'm not mistaken you are a player in the hunting industry here in the U.S.?
Did you make the same request of all your paying clientele?

As far as your claim regarding zero interest in conservation there. Bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
AH is 100% a business of self promotion for Jerome and his cronies. They banned me when I posted a green peace email address that was flooding my email with death threats because I was asking members there to help me push back and give them a little of their own medicine. Conservation and protection of hunting are meaningless thoughts there. Just my opinion but it is guaranteed AH is a far cry from what Saeed and AR represent. .SS

Without permission you asked their membership to break the law on your behalf, then whine when you're banned?

If I'm not mistaken you are a player in the hunting industry here in the U.S.?
Did you make the same request of all your paying clientele?

As far as your claim regarding zero interest in conservation there. Bullshit.

What law did he break??

I'm not sure what Mr. Beaham was referring to, but for starters, if he was asking people to repeat the death threats he was getting, I believe that's both a state and a federal crime (since it's done over the internet) in the US. In addition, looking to have people "flood" someone's inbox can be construed as something akin to a denial of service attack, and is again a violation of certain laws. Counselling or procuring a crime is also a crime. Even discussing a potential crime with a bunch of people can constitute the crime of conspiracy.

With people like Greenpeace, I think it's best to ignore them, or if there are actual death threats, involve the FBI. But don't try to "give them a little of their own medicine."

By "he" in the first sentence of my post I meant SafariSean, not Mr. Beaham. Need to be more carful with my grammar.

Sheik Saeed it is never in anyone's best interest to encourage anyone for whatever reason to electronically disseminate death threats or anything of the sort.
If you receive threats such as these (and I have) simply contact the FBI's Internet Crimes Division or your local law enforcement agency.
Two wrongs do not make a right.