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Anyone else notice that the PH on this weeks TAA seemed a little trigger happy? He unloaded his double on the clients Buff and Croc. Don't/can't know all the details involved but just seemed a little much. Maybe so, maybe not. Also noticed the client was shooting a muzzlebrake. This seems more prevelant on the outdoor shows lately also. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | ||
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Noticed the shooting as well | |||
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Perhaps he requested backing up? The client seemed pleased (tho very reserved.) _______________________ | |||
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I'd bet the PH had a back-up request, but maybe the fact that the client was useing a muzzle brake had scrambled the PH's brain causeing him to see charges everywhere! .................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I am a muzzle brake guy and was very upfront about it with my PH before both safaris. It is not preferred but was not an issue either. | |||
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Aaaahh, the pleasant buzzlike ringing in my ears every night as I drop off.  | |||
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I'd say this is very likely the case. The croc was very close to the water and I would have wanted a couple backup shots, too, to keep from losing the trohpy. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Yes, back-up OK'd and requested if needed by the client. Only a fool will not ask for back-up on croc especially. I have shot several, and I DEMAND backup, needed or not. Dave Fulson | |||
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I THOUGHT IT WAS A LITTLE ODD ALSO. DURING THE FOLLOW UP ON THE BUFF. THE CLIENT WAS CLEARLY GETTING READY TO FIRE HIS SECOND BACKUP SHOT WHEN INTERUPTED BY MARKS TWO SHOTS FROM HIS DOUBLE. I HAVE NEVER NOTICED MARKS BACKUP SHOTS LIKE THIS BEFORE SO I ASSUME AS STATED IT WAS REQUESTED BY THE CLIENT! | |||
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Justin - If we're there together, we'll have to talk about that muzzle-brake.  | |||
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Not I...I don't really even want something that somebody else shot...unless it was a life or death situation. If it is fixing to, hook, bite, scratch, or stomp us...shoot by all means. Otherwise...don't put any bullet holes in my animals. But that is just me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I would not tolerate nor tip these modern hot shots. Outside of Zimbabwe, I have never had a problem with a PH letting me shoot my game. If its an issue for you, cover it when you book. Lots of PHs are not so fearful of letting you shoot your game. No way I would be one of Sullivan's dead eyes. In my experience, most PHs have no interest in shooting your game, nor being TV hunters. | |||
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I believe the following to be true, but I have no independent knowledge of this hunt: 1. It was only the clients second safari. 2. It was the client's first DG safari. 3. The client had concerns and brought a friend along to reassure him. 4. The client apparently felt he needed a muzzle brake equipped rifle. 5. I know Mark, and he is a very experienced PH, so I expected what Dave Fulson has confirmed, i.e. back-up shots were requested. 6. Croc hunting requires MOA shooting ability, so a back-up may save a lost trophy fee. I don't request back-ups, ever. That's my choice/decision and I am willing to take the risk. I don't fault those who request back-ups on any game; it is, after all, their hunt and their checkbook. I expect my PH to shoot if someone is in imminent danger or if a wounded and dangerous animal is likely to escape. Looking forward to Part 2 and hope the client bags his Lion. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I've never had a PH fire a back up shot. BUT, I never even discuss the issue with my PHs, old or new. He is a professional. If he thinks it's necessary, that's his decision, for whatever reason. I have zero ego about it. Once I put that first shot into the animal, it's mine, regardless of whether or not the PH chimes in. Just doesn't bother me. YMMV however. | |||
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Sounds like a crappy show and hunt.I think it is the PH who was trigger happy. | |||
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The Mad Men season opener was better - more focused on death, IMHO.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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There is only two reasons to watch Mad Men and Christina Hendricks is both of them.  | |||
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Well said Mike. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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+1 on Mikes quote! That said...I have never considered myself a "true trophy hunter", who is a collector, even though I have mounts all over my house and in my old age...only like to shoot "big stuff". I am a hunter cause I like to hunt and shoot and test my ability to do both. I would never even consider having someone back my shot for fear of loosing a trophy...I live and die on my own ability. But as Mike stated above and being of Libertarian Philosophy...each to his/her own. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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"Only a fool will not ask for backup". Hummm, looks like a lot of foolish folks here on AR, huh? No problem with those that request it, but hardly think someone is a "fool" who doesn't. Really Dave.Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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If my firsy shot needs backed up I have no problem with my PH doing so. I would however like the oportunity to back myself up first. If I don't have a shot or am not shooting for some other reason, then I want my PH to jump in. The last thimg any of us want is a wounded or lost buffalo. In the video "Boddington on Buffalo" Andrew Dawson says that if it is your first buffalo he is going to back you up. If you watch he backs up on report with more than one client. H eadvocates this practice especialy with croc. and hippo. I would not care for this. I would like the opportunity to back myself up. I guess I have been lucky. All of my PH's have only shot if the animal was starting to run off. (Don't get me startad on muzzle breaks). | |||
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Larry, on croc, yes. I assume I have shot more of them, and certainly seen more of them in person shot than you. My thoughts are my opinion, based on quite a bit of experience. Of course,as in most TAA issues, you have a problem with that. Please Bwana, by all means, tell your PH no backup shots for you, under any circumstance. Fine by me. May you enjoy a HAPPY SPLASH as your croc enters the water and quota sheet at the same time. Dave Fulson | |||
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Dave, on my last hunt while walking endlessly in the bush and reflecting on the meaning of life I came to the realization that life is simply too short to waste it on the argumentative segment of Team AR. My wish for you is that same peace and tranquility. Mike | |||
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 But, there is a hellova lot of meaning to it. AMEN!!!Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Mike Your wisdom is born of experience, both with hunting and AR! SERENITY NOW !! Thanks buddy. Dave Fulson | |||
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I saw that too. And it is the reason that Mr. Dawson and I will never hunt together. Nothing personal mind you, I simply don't operate that way. As far as croc go I've never shot one but if the brain pan didn't explode out the top of the head on my first shot I'd sure want the PH to chip in. | |||
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Indeed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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As to the the hunter requesting a back up shot. Seems to me that it is his call. If he is not secure with the situation ,his skill level,medical or what ever, it is reasonable he would ask for back up. In actuality that may be the ethical decision. I have seen guys who were adamant that there be no back up shot who then promptly made a gut shot to the consternation of everyone in the party. And there is an old elephant hunter I know with rapidly failing sight who requests back up. We must all make our own call. And most often we really do not know the back story on the events of another persons hunt. | |||
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I had not heard of the show or the double refered to; fficial&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=sOhkUZn0Mo-EhQfQioGADg&ved=0CKcBEIke&biw=1016&bih=594" target="_blank">https://www.google.co.za/searc...Ike&biw=1016&bih=594 FOLLOW MORE IMAGES Man, thats like a 465/500 H&H Royale double.   | |||
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I am not sure how crocs and buffalo I have shot. Never had a backup shot, neither has any of my PH suggested it. | |||
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Saeed, unfortunately your skill level with your rifle is,I am quite sure, a great deal more than that of the average client. I, especially in my filming experience, have seen so many great trophies lost that could have went into the salt if a good back-up shot, by either hunter or PH was put in. This is a personal thing, I get that, and my opinion may very well be in the minority, but I for one will never tie the PH's hands, or value a trophy less if it is wearing a PH's bullet on top of mine. Dave Fulson | |||
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Saeed, I asked this a couple of times now but never got an answer. Have you ever lost a buff (or croc)? | |||
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What did you say? Can't hear you for the ringing in my ears. I sold my last rifle with a brake last year. I'll never have another. I wear hearing aides and have no doubt it's from a Moose and Caribou hunt that I used a brake on without hearing pertection in place. I know .... dumb move....but the Moose and Caribou popped up quite unexpectedly. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I think the above statement only really comes in to play when you get the client that refuses any back up under any circumstances and wants to be the first in line on a follow up. This guy is the fool. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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You are a wordsmith Mark.My intent was just that,but your words were clearer.And I was talking croc firstly, and poorly shot DG secondly. Dave Fulson | |||
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I put alot of value on what you've shared here Dave... After my shot... I'll let my PH put another just after mine... Hope to get me my first croc on my next trip over | |||
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I have never had that discussion when it comes to buff and as far as I can remember no PH ever had to fire a back up shot on them. Same for leopard. On elephant I ask my PH to fire a back up shot into the heart lung area on any elephant that I take with a head shot if it doesn't go down immediately. Was only used twice and once it wasn't needed as I had actually taken heart lung shots myself. The reason I ask on elephant head shots is that if the first doesn't at least knock it down my second barrel will also be to the head and the back up shot helps to assure that we don't end up having to track a wounded ele with two holes in hid head and four good legs as well as sundry other plumbing. I have never shot a hippo, croc or lion so don't know what I would do in those cases. 465H&H | |||
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Well said Mike! | |||
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Todd, Yes, I have lost a wounded buffalo, but no crocs. I have not shot anywhere near as many crocs as buffalo though. | |||
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Thanks for the answer Saeed. If you've lost a wounded buffalo, it certainly sounds as if you could have benefited from the PH's help. | |||
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