Check this report out.....

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1995741,00.html

There are a few things that I would love to ask this PH, and the hunter on seperate occasions...

What does all my e-buddies on AR have to say about Lion and Barnes X that does not expand....

www.infinito-safaris.com

Holy S**T!!! That is one lucky dude!!!!

..........That cannot shoot

No serious, I have not been there myself, but my mentor (old Big game hunter) taught me that one of the most difficult things to shoot is a charging cat,'cause they are so fast. You shoot it before it charges at avg. 20m. then the head and torso is still, and again at 5m, just before it jumps, it slows down to get a fix on you, that is when you shoot again. Just hope I do not have to wait 'till the 5m mark.....But i would make sure the client uses a good soft nose bullet, not a Barnes X for a lion/ Leopard...

www.infinito-safaris.com

One bad pussy...cat.

That is why I used Hornady 300gr Round nose on cats and X bullets on bigger animals..

Mike

Never hunted either, but on a leopard, no problem but on a lion? I'd use a Partition or an Aframe. Sorry Mike! jorge

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jorge:
Never hunted either, but on a leopard, no problem but on a lion? I'd use a Partition or an Aframe. Sorry Mike! jorge[/QUOT

Jorge are you one of those that thinks bullets bounce off?

We had a problem with Barnex TSX this year on Safari. The petals completely folded back and did not always leave the animal. Poor blood trail on four animals, and one wasn't ever recovered.

the next generation tsx needs that mrx deralin tip to insure expansion and tip protection ihmo

p.s. if you want the petals to stay on either load it down or go up in cal...my default is to go up in cal.

either that or go to north fork cup points or softs. good shooting to all...

Lets say for argument sake that the bullet failed to expand at all. OK... a .375 inch hole straight through an animals vitals is a little more than a pin prick, don't you think??

There are a lot of variables in a hunting situation. Sometimes animals that should go down don't. It dosen't always mean there is a failure in the bullet.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Let us put this particular so called "hunt" into perspective.

First and foremost this is a CANNED hunt in every sence of the word.

It has all the hall marks of one.

Client is "hunting" on a farm in South Africa.
He then gets "asked" to kill a "problem" animal.

He makes a poor shot, and blames it on the performance of the bullet.

I have used Barnes X bullets for so many years, on all sorts of animals, including several lions, and have never, ever had any problems with a well placed shot.

ANY animal that is charging should only be shot in the HEAD or SPINE. Any other place is not guaranteed to stop the charge.

All the lions that I have shot with Barnes X bullets never moved more than 10 yards max. Shoulder shots had done the job on all of them.

I agree. What a crock! I am sure the true story would reflect even less well on the participants, except for the lion, of course.

If he shot her in any vital spot (charging), it would not live long enough to maul him for more than 30 seconds. The first shot IMO was propably placed too far forward/ or angled between shoulder and chest cavity, missing lungs/ heart or seriuos bloodvessels. Even a well expanding .600 bullet would fail if not placed correctly

Firstly,
unless it's a "oh sh!t moment" pointing barnes anything X at a cat is stupid, and the the hunter is under informed. SOFTS for cats... not (dang near) expanding solids..
SOFTS.. woodlieghs, hornadys, hell, even HAWKS...

Uplandhunter,
we'll need more specifics on your failed TSX anventure... what caliber, bullet weight, muzzle veloicty and game where you taking, as well as ranges? I HAVE seen barnes XLC (same nose contruction) sear off all the petals, which it hit the hip bone of a 1800# eland... swelled and buldged.. and weight four FEET through the animal to come to rest just hind the off shoulder..
500gr XLC, mv 2500fps, .475 bullet, shot taken at 187 yards to recover game. hip to off shoulder through eland, recovered under the hide. about 60% weight retention and went through FEET of animal after turning hip and femur into gravel....

So, I wonder what you where shooting, etc, to understand how a , call it .308 shank didn't go right on through plains games?

jeffe

Total bullucks

quote:

The client shot the lioness through the right shoulder with a .375, using Barnes X ammunition.

"For some reason, the bullet didn't do the job. We found out afterwards that it had not mushroomed, so the wound was like a little pinprick to the cat.

because he MISSED

quote:

Before I knew it she had my whole head in her mouth."

sorry, I thought cats killed by grabbing with their mouths and strangling the game... but on smaller stuff, monkeys and human, they just crushed the skulls?

quote:

After perhaps 30 seconds, trackers put in three more spinal shots, killing the lioness

at which point I would need new trousers... 30 seconds with your head and/or arm in a lionese's mouth? and you have limbs and are aline? Did you shoot someone's PET

I used brown to indicate the nature of the fertilizer!

Jarrod, not bounce off, but I've seen them fail miserably on animals as soft as impalas and if you do a search here, you'll find them failing on a recent buff hunt by none other than Hornady's owner himself although that was an Interbond. What are your experiences with the 300gr Hornady SP on african game? jorge

I am a big fan of Barnes X bullet for buffalo, having killed three and seeing two more cleanly killed with them. Of course they were all killed with a 416 Rem Mag so I have no experience killing buffalo or lions with 375s. I have killed leopard and plains game with Woodleighs and North Forks and North Fork would be my first choice on lion, maybe even buffalo using a 416 but I would not use the X bullet on lion or leopard. In a light caliber, say 300 H&H I would not think twice about using the Barnes X for plains game although my experience with light caliber Barnes X is limited to NA deer but I feel that they worked just fine. I have seen bullets recoved from buffalo to warthog and there almost always seems to be a missing a petal for some reason, maybe hitting bone, who knows?

When did Barnes start producing ammo? This is another example of an illinformed reporter. If they are loaded too hot and you shoot something too close you may have the same results. All we get from this article is a small piece of the puzzle.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
If he shot her in any vital spot (charging), it would not live long enough to maul him for more than 30 seconds.

Couldn't agree more, even if a solid had been used for the first shot and it hit the vitals (as is claimed) that girl would've been dead by the time they started following up on her (1 hour after the shot). I don't have any first-hand knowledge of this incident but I tend to agree with Saeed that this sounds like a "canned"" (hunt?). Isn't it coincidental that "towards the end" of the "14 day walking safari", Nature Conservation authorities "asked" the hunters to destroy a "problem cat"? The only 65K ha + reserves I know of in Limpopo is the Timbavati and Klaserie Pvt Nature Reserves adjacent to Kruger and as far as I know there aren't many "problem cats" in that area. How big can a "problem"" can a cat be in Greater Kruger" after all?

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Jarrod, not bounce off, but I've seen them fail miserably on animals as soft as impalas and if you do a search here, you'll find them failing on a recent buff hunt by none other than Hornady's owner himself although that was an Interbond. What are your experiences with the 300gr Hornady SP on african game? jorge

Jorge I dont think you saw the smile face I posted. I was just the pot a little

I don't understand the problem with petals coming off on the way though a game animal.

On my 1st Trophy hog all I found when I cleaned him was a couple of bullet petals from my 375 x bullet. I didn't find any petals in the second hog the same bullet went through and killed.

The bullet lost petals and still took out 2 hogs. No bullet recovered.

Sounds like a problem of bullet placement not bullet failure.

Riodot,

How far into the wound tract were the petals you found on the hog?

Andy

Jarrod: no umbrage taken. Was just curious if your own experiences WRT Hornadys have given you pause as well. I've relegated my Hornady use to local deer hunting only. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
Riodot,

How far into the wound tract were the petals you found on the hog?

Andy

Found in the chest cavity of the 1st Hog - quartering forward shot in right shoulder, out left paunch, in left shoulder, out right shoulder of second hog. 60 yard shot. 300gr Barnes X bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Uglystick:
Lets say for argument sake that the bullet failed to expand at all. OK... a .375 inch hole straight through an animals vitals is a little more than a pin prick, don't you think??

There are a lot of variables in a hunting situation. Sometimes animals that should go down don't. It dosen't always mean there is a failure in the bullet.

In the article it said the lioness was lying down by a bush when the client shot the lion in the shoulder! This says a lot, to me! A shot placed in the middle of the shoulder with the lioness lying down would likely only damage the on side shoulder, and go high above the vitals. I'd say it wouldn't have made any difference what bullet he was useing, in most cases, with this type of shot!
I hate X-bullets, but I don't think, in this case, this was the bullet's fault.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Jarrod, not bounce off, but I've seen them fail miserably on animals as soft as impalas and if you do a search here, you'll find them failing on a recent buff hunt by none other than Hornady's owner himself although that was an Interbond. What are your experiences with the 300gr Hornady SP on african game? jorge

Jorge, I shot a bull Eland through the shoulders from about 75 yds with a 375 Hornady 300 gr round nose, and the bullet mushroomed perfectly, and was just under the skin on the off side shoulder, dropping the running eland no his nose, ass over tea kettle! That is the largest animal I've used that bullet on, however, so is not a large sample. The bullet I used was the OLD "JACKETED" Hornady, not this new plated thing.