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Ladies and Gentlemen, We have endless arguments about dangerous game hunting. This argument runs the gamot from getting as close as you can, to wounding an animal and walking up to it so it charges. I have personally met people who have been seriously hurt by a warthog, hyena, bushbuck, zebra, wildebeast, and leoprad. I have never met anyone hurt by a buffalo, elephant or lion. When we go hunting, do we really go looking to place ourselves in danger? I don't know about any of you, but I certainly don't. I go hunting because I enjoy being in the bush, sharing a camp with friends, and of course hunting, with all that entails. In all my 30 years of hunting, I have had a few occassions where I things did not go as planned - sadly, we cannot take the animal's behaviour into consideration when hunting. If that was possible things would be much easier. We have had lions mating a few yards from us in long grass. We have had to go after leopards after they have been shot in very dense and thorny bush. We were chased by elephants. We had a pride of lions fighting a few yards from us. We had occassions to follow wounded buffalo into both long grass and thick bush. We dealt with all these situations, and thankfully, we never had any close calls. After each of the above situations, we were glad of the outcome, and hoped we learnt a lesson of not repeating what had happened. Animals, any animal, will hurt you, and even kill you. But if we really went looking for danger, we should leave our rifles at home. | ||
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For myself the thrill of hunting an animal that is capable of hurting/maiming/killing if I do not do my part 100%correctly is part of the reason I enjoy hunting DG.. Scott | |||
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Great, but do you go out of your way to get yourself into danger while hunting? | |||
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Saeed I fully agree that we don’t look to get a charge from any dangerous animal, or at least I don’t. I will say, however, that I too have met folks who have been injured by the same animals you list above, that you have met. But there may be a real reason why you nor I have met a lot of folks who were injured by buffalo, elephant or lion, that is because most folks that are met by those three animals are most time only met afterwards by the coroner. I know three folks who were caught by Buffalo, and one by a leopard who survived, not one from elephant or lion. I see what you are getting at however, and that is unless a guy gets in the habit of provoking charges with things like buffalo they rarely charge a hunter, and I agree with you that is a fools practice, and IMO not a necessary part of hunting. ........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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A very good post and question Saeed. I'm speaking solely for myself in this response. I hope you will allow me the use of an analogy to respond. Is it danger itself that I'm seeking when going in close to hunt DG? No, I don't really think so. Really, I don't think about danger at all. But it is excitement and stimulation that is not present from hunting plains game and whitetail deer. Buffalo at 100 yards seems very much the same IMO. Please watch this video. For almost 8 years, these were my daily activities. Well actually, we flew like this about once every 3 to 4 days. Pay particular attention to the low and fast flying that begins at 0:56 into the video. Dangerous? You bet. But we didn't love doing this because it was dangerous any more than people ride motorcycles because they are dangerous. Simply stated, it was stimulating and exciting. FUN if you will. Certainly, flying low and fast like this is dangerous, as is going into the thick stuff after buffalo or elephant, but with proper training and procedures, the danger aspect is controlled and most certainly is not the driving force behind the enjoyment of doing it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQqQtLz9wj4 Now, you'll notice quite a bit of other types of flying in that video as well. I did the high altitude droning from point A to point B for more years than I want to count while flying for the airlines. Fun? Yeah, it's still enjoyable. More so than sitting behind a desk. But exciting like pushing the throttle up at 200' in a fighter? NO WAY!! I remember sitting at the hold short line at LaGuardia Airport one night in a driving snowstorm. Really bad weather. A definite challenge getting in about an hour and a half earlier, and now, a challenging departure. All at a challenging airport in the best of conditions. Dangerous. Of course. But neither I nor the Captain were scared or felt the danger was overwhelming, or even very concerning to be honest. We knew what we were doing, had the procedures down pat, and enjoyed the challenge of executing those procedures correctly, walking away with a sense of accomplishment in a "job well done". Nothing more to it than that. So yes, there is a danger factor in close quarters hunting of DG. But it isn't the danger one seeks for the sake of danger itself. Rather, the excitement of knowing how to operate in those conditions and manage the outcome, keeping the danger factor at bay. Just like those days of yore back when I flew missions like in the video, I never ventured into the jet or now days into the jesse thinking to myself, excellent, this is going to be dangerous. Rather I did / do these things because they offer a different level of excitement than simply sniping animals at 100 yards; or flying from Dallas to Pittsburg! Cheers! | |||
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Todd, I think we are talkling about two different things here. I used to do lot of very silly things while flying, both fixed wing and rotary. During a hunt, even non-dangerous animals can turn the tables on you if you don't have your wits about you. I have seen some people get so close to being killed while an animal is being loaded into the truck! We were loading a blue wildebeest into the truck once, and the head got stuck at an angle. And when it got loose, it swung at such a force, missing the head of a person standing their by less t5han an inch. The funny part was I had already told that individual to be careful where he stands relative to what is being done. He got the message, and after thyat occassion he made a point of always standing far away. It wasn't Walter. Sometimes, we have to break with the norms in hunting. One time I shot a buffalo. He ran ioff and then dropped in short grass. We normally aproach from behind. But, in this occassion he would have been hidden behind some bushes untill we were almost on top of him. Instead, we approached from the front, knowing full well that if he charged we can kill him. That wasn't necessary, as he was already dead. The joke that Mark Sullivan puts himself in danger by approaching a wounded buffalo is just that. A joke. With a rifle in hand, and approaching a wounded animal where you can see him, is like the proverbial "shooting fish in a barrel" | |||
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I have no experience in africa but, when I shot my bison I used a large bore handgun and got really close before taking the shot. I stopped when one of the heard looked to be getting agitated with his tail up and head down. I could have easily shot him from a far with a rifle but wanted to make the hunt more challanging. Plus I enjoy getting close to the animal it is a sureal experience being close to a large megestic animal. When I do go dangerous game hunting in africa in the future I will try and get as close as possible to really enjoy the presence of the animal. | |||
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Saeed, I was attempting to answer the question you posed " When we go hunting, do we really go looking to place ourselves in danger? ". That was the purpose of my post with the video. If I've misread what you are asking, I apologize. I thought you were trying to find the motivation behind hunting DG in thick cover vs DG or plains game at a distance as it relates to actual danger to our person being the motivating factor. If you are asking do I hunt DG to expose myself to danger as the motivating factor, the answer is NO. I didn't fly in those manners nor do I hunt dangerous game in thick brush simply for the exercise of "looking to place myself in danger". Really I don't. But, I would not be truthful if I said that I didn't / don't find those activities to be stimulating and exciting over and above flying from point A to point B, or shooting plains game. For the record, I never considered flying fighter aircraft in the manner depicted in the video as silly or reckless. The point I hope I made is that we had established procedures and practices that allowed us to get the most out of the machine to be operationally sound, while minimizing danger as best we could. In that environment, it was just a hell of a lot of fun. But not specifically because it was dangerous. I really don't know how to put it into words better than that. For me, the same applies to hunting dangerous game in thick brush with an open sighted, big bore, double rifle. I don't think of it in terms of "Danger" but rather the excitement of doing it correctly and the accomplishment of managing the situation. I don't find that same level of excitement in shooting an animal from a long distance. Of course, as you know, long range hunting is something that stimulates some hunters. Others tend to look down on it as being unethical. Those same guys probably think going in close is unethical since there is no need to expose yourself. There are just many degrees to the pursuit of our sport of hunting. We are all motivated by different aspects of it. What motivates me does not make me any better or worse than the guy who is motivated by the exact opposite. I can't force him to do things my way any more than he can force me to do things his way. What are the motivating factors for going on safari, or hunting in general, for that matter? Well, I'd have to say I enjoy being in the wild places firstly more than anything else. I enjoy the pursuit of the game, and while I hope for success, it isn't necessary for me to be 100% to consider the time, effort, and money as well spent. I could care less about a tape measure as well. I care about the experience. And the experience of Africa is different than the experience of say elk hunting in the Rocky Mountains. They both provide the enjoyment of being in the wild areas. But I can get an added experience in Africa. That of pursuing dangerous game into close quarters. Of course the mountains can be just as stimulating in terms of requiring you to be on your toes at all times. I took a fall in the New Zealand mountains last June, breaking 3 fingers and 2 ribs, then walking out 6 hours. All fun ceased as soon as my foot slipped, I can guarantee you! So I certainly understand your statements that ordinary daily occurrences during a hunt can hurt you. Again, if I've missed what your are asking, I apologize but I thought you were asking if we hunt dangerous game for the purpose of placing ourselves in actual danger. I suppose some people do. Mark Sullivan says he does. Personally, I remember last October during that buffalo follow up that I posted on YouTube, that it was likely we would take a charge. And even with the 577NE in my hands, it was not something I wanted to happen. I ran the scenario through my mind thinking that should it happen, I would be required to not start shooting wildly but rather attempt to wait until the proper time to fire the weapon. I hoped I would be up to standing there calmly and shooting straight and felt confident I would do so. I overwhelmingly hoped I didn't have to and was relieved when I didn't! I'm also not compelled to keep myself out of those scenarios by ceasing those activities. I don't know if I can give you a better answer than that. | |||
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A feral donkey could very nearly have killed me, once. I guess it is possibly, potentially dangerous, with a little bit of bad luck or mismanagement. That word "mismanagement" could be something simple, like forgetting to reload. Or it could be something highly debatable, like how close to move-in for the finishing shot. It is easy to start talking in terms of morality and immorality, of ethics and absence of ethics, and this becomes quite contentious (as we've seen). What one bloke finds repungently unethical, or at least "stupid", another bloke finds quite acceptable (I'm thinking in terms of buffalo follow-up questions, and the times and distances involved). One thing is for sure, though. There are a great many people on the planet who, wrongly (I / we believe), think that owning a rifle is immoral and unethical, and pulling the trigger on a beast is also immoral and unethical. And it is very hard to convince them otherwise. So no matter where we stand on an issue we know the joy of talking to a brick wall! Whoops, that was a sidetrack from the question of how dangerous this game is. Well, the thing I'm most afraid of is the heat, if I'm perfectly honest. I'm handy with my rifle, prepared, sharp. But that bloody sun, that's a real issue, something to be worried about (for me, as I happen to be the weakest link in this regard, but still try my best within my limits). | |||
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Todd, I understand why you posted that video. My point is my question only concerns hunting, not any other activity. I got mauled by 2 pet raccoons, and receieved - I think 57 bites! We had two raccons here in our house. They were small and living in a large bathroom. We decided to build them a case just outside our balcony, with stairs coming up to the balcony. We moved them there one morning, and one simnply disappeared. We look everywhere, and could not find him. Eventually I found him on the balcony. How he managed to get through a gap in teh sliding window which looked like an inch I have no idea. I took him down, and was clinging to me for dear life. I put him down with his friend, stayed with them a few minutes. They seem to be calmed. Then as soon as they saw me trying to leave, both were clinging to my legs. After quite an effost, I managed to disentangle myself from them, at which point they went berserk. I had shorts on, and ended up with 57 bites on my legs, arms and hands. Luckily we had a small cage inside that compound, and I managed to put both inside it and lock it. There was so much blood around, it looked like someone has wounded a buffa and it had passed by. | |||
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Usually very much the opposite is true.. Also believe that being aware of what is going on around you is significant in keeping yourself out of harms way, such as your friend in loading the wildebeest. (Who was not Walter) | |||
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I suspect that is precisely what the majority of hunters do. Claiming to put one's life in danger while holding a double rifle and against a wounded animal lying in the open in front of you is a total joke. | |||
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Hey Todd, I read you 5-by-5, my Brother. I call it adventure. It is the adrenaline rush that makes life worth living. I know most people don't get it, but for those of us who do, it is an addiction we simply don't ever want to forego. I read about it as a child and couldn't wait to experience it. That was probably why I was incredibly bored with high school and only lived to play football, chase girls and drink beer. So when my war started, I dropped out of college and joined the Marine Corps in 1965, telling my recruiter I wanted to leave for boot camp and RVN soonest. He understood, and 7 days later I was standing on the yellow footprints and exactly 6 months after that I arrived in Da Nang. I've never looked back. My wife knows how I am, since we met after I returned from the war and was stationed at MCRD San Diego while she was doing her graduate work. The only thing she has ever denied me was when I wanted to volunteer for the Rhodesian Forces in 1975. She may have been right about that one, but I have and continue to find other activities that still kick start the adrenaline. My only regrets are that I didn't get more missions and that so many friends didn't come home. Saeed, no, I do not hunt DG up close and personal for the danger of it. I don't think of it in those terms. I do enjoy the challenge of getting close and making the one shot DRT kill. Circumstances don't always allow the 15 yard shot like last years Ele, but getting as close as possible is part of the rush. I understand completely Todd's reference to deer hunting. If people understand wolves and sheepdogs, they'll understand. If not then they are probably what we call sheeple. It's not meant to be derogatory, but rather as a simple means of differentiation. A sheepdog knows the difference between the wolf and the sheep. Semper Fi, Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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The most challenging events in my hunting tenure that might describe a danger element has been the terrain or weather. EZ | |||
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I would say that the number of PH's and/or trackers killed or injured last year are evidence that dangerous game hunting is, in fact, dangerous. My last PH, who has decades of experience hunting and culling dangerous game, was hit hard by a buffalo that had been wounded by a client. He was the most cautious PH I've hunted with so I doubt he took any reckless risks. | |||
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Saeed, In the pursuit of dangerous game or any potentiality dangerous activity whether it be mountain climbing, flying or hunting a buffalo it seems that there are two types of folks who tend to get hurt or killed. Those that are new and excitable and those that have become overconfident and become lax. It seems to me that you've possibly become a bit to comfortable with the whole procedure. Just something to think about. | |||
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Saeed, I believe you know Don Heath. He got a broken arm from an elephant that he failed to stop soon enough. I have had five PHs and three have never been injured (to my knowledge) by a DG but one other has been by a elephant and another by a lioness. Both survived by the way. As for looking for danger on a hunt, well that is not my objective. Mine is to avoid getting my self or some one in my party from getting hurt or killed by doing everything right that I can. Avoiding potential danger by knowing what and how to hunt DG is my objective. 465H&H | |||
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Saeed: Fanie Pretorius -- the outfitter for my first safari -- survived a lion attack. Other professionals I've met had been badly cut up by leopards or tossed around and gored by buffalo and survived. Besides Don Heath, the only other person I've met who survived an elephant attack was a woman who got out a tour bus to take photos in a park. She was lucky. The tour guide shot the elephant before it killed her. Two years and several surgeries later, she still had not fully recovered. Bill Quimby | |||
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I will leave other activities out of this discussion, as I have absolutely no illusion that someone UP THERE who did not want me dead, on many occasions, in different pursuits. Things sometimes do tend to go south while on a hunt, and this will occur that one cannot really have much control over. I accept that as part of the hunt. Numerous PHs and clients have died because of this. But, my question was about those who CLAIM to put their lives in danger, by instigating an animal to charge. I have been in situation where we came across a buffalo or a hippo only a few yards away from us. Time stood still as we all eyed each other. We were not hunting them at the time, so the last thing we wanted was having to kill any. Luckily, they turned and gone the other way. If they did charge, I have absolutely no worry that they would have died. | |||
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Ahh I see what you are getting at. And yes to purposely instigate a charge is a manufactured situation and it is needless. It has no purpose other than boosting ones ego maybe? When we do a dangerous activity we strive minimize inerrant risk through skill, training, knowledge and experience. Showboating is just that it serves no practical purpose other than to look cool. That's my take on it in any case. | |||
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never underestimate ego. Such a thing is what record books are made of | |||
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Saeed, I certainly misread your intent. I thought you were asking what is the driving force behind the desire to hunt dangerous game up close in the thick jesse. For me, the reasons are exactly the same as why I enjoy other pursuits of life that produce similar feelings of excitement, such as flying low and fast. I can not separate them from one another. But I now realize this is another Mark Sullivan bashfest. Nothing more! Case in point: Originally posted by Saeed:
If you are implying that danger ceases to exist by simply placing a rifle in the hands of a qualified hunter during the pursuit of dangerous animals, I couldn't disagree any stronger. Certainly, should a charge occur, the rifleman holds an edge, as long as everything goes correctly. But it's an edge, not a guarantee!! Specifically to Mark Sullivan's technique of shooting at 10 feet, what happens if his gun misfires? What happens if he misses the brain? Could be gun related, a bad primer, any number of things. Michael458 spends an inordinate amount of time working with his rifles and ammunition (you know, the guy that started and has perpetuated the 300+ page thread on bullet performance) but he had a primer fail to ignite last year during a close call with an elephant. Something like that WOULD undoubtedly KILL Mark Sullivan attempting the first shot at such a close range. Buffalo also pretty much require a CNS hit to stop them once they get it in their head to press home a charge. He could easily miss that small target that is bobbing up and down and coming on at great speed. To deny there is real danger in a charge situation just because a man holds a rifle in his hands has been disproven all too frequently. You can disapprove of Sullivan's tactics and personality all you want, but to suggest that he does not expose himself to real danger is simply not true. He may be controlling the danger to a large degree, but it is very real. All one has to do to realize that is look at the number of very good PHs that were killed or injured last year. To your comment that you've never met a PH or anyone else that survived a DG contact encounter, I shared a camp last year with a PH that very nearly died as a result of a buffalo encounter up close and personal. Alan Shearing. As many safaris as you've been on and you haven't met a man who has been injured by a buff, hippo, ele, or lion? Really? Actually, I wonder how many you haven't met on your travels simply because they didn't survive the encounter. I have to wonder, what drives your all consuming fascination with Mark Sullivan? Cal's thread proved that the number of charges depicted, number of shots fired by Sullivan, number of shots fired by both client and Sullivan, as well as the percentage of hunts where Sullivan joined in on the shooting is not out of line with other DVDs on the market by more "respected" PHs. No one calls them out! After I posted the stats from Boddington on Buffalo, you stated you would hunt with Dawson either. But you never actively called out and criticized Dawson, making broad based and inaccurate statements against the man in an attempt to discredit him. Agreed that Dawson dispatches the animal at the earliest possibility which is in contrast to Sullivan. But that isn't all you cited. Specifically, you criticized the items I've identified in this paragraph, and did so at length. I tried to answer you straight up from your OP. I'm a sucker to have been drawn into yet another Mark Sullivan bashfest. | |||
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Something is "dangerous" only in comparison to something else. Many activities are dangerous compared to hunting anything in Africa. It's a question of comparing injuries/fatalities per 100,000. I have not seen it quantified, but my estimate is that hunting the big 5 as done in the last half century is far safer than taking a shower here in the states, and is close to absolutely safe when compared to driving a motor vehicle in the states. I don't agree that hunting is dangerous compared to several commonly pursued hobbies or daily activities. Which current PH has significantly more dangerous game experience than Jacky Hamman? Yet he thought, that no animal was any match for an armed man. (White Hunters, Brian Herne 211-214) I make no comment on unprofessional hunting and its dangers. Any human activity can be changed and made more dangerous. | |||
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Yes Todd, and I am likely to drown while sleeping on my bed in the tent by the river bank too. | |||
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A ridiculous comparison. Why did I expect otherwise? Actually, I didn't! | |||
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Todd, There is danger in everything we do. And to suggest that a hunter with a rifle in his hands approaching an animal lying in front of him, knowing that animal is going to charge, does not equate to placing one's life in danger Don't forget, by this time Mark Sullivan has already made his decision that the buffalo is going to die at his feet  | |||
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Saeed, What is your fascination with the man? Could it be you are actually a "closet supporter"?  It fits the pattern!! What is the old quote: Methinks thou doest protest too much!!  | |||
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I have never been to Africa. My hunts are mainly hunts, after black bear, deer and moose. I do many solo hunts though, into remote Alberta wilderness, and people question me on this. Why I go alone like that into the wilderness. I am my only resource. No back-up, if I were to get hurt, attacked etc, there is nothing that is going to help me. There is no cell phone service where I go, and frankly, since I cover so much country, I can't really even tell people where it is that I am going. They would have to search long and hard to find me, if something happened. I go out alone for one reason, I am selfish. I can't find anyone that is interested in going where I go, or doing the things I want to do. So I go it alone. If you could see where I go, and just how remote the country is, would see the risk that is assumed. But it's not from the game animals. But because I am aware of the situation, I take extra precautions. When riding the Honda ATV, at creeks and such, I always winch myself through to avoid rolling the machine over, where most guys I know would just 'blast' their way through. I carry several rifles, in case I might have trouble with one. There are many grizzlies in the area (in 2012 a hunter was savagely attacked in the area), as well as black bears. I have had several confrontations with aggressive bears. I will camp alone in the wilderness, in this bear country. So last year I invested in an electric 'bear proof' fence. As to danger from the game, there is very little risk compared to African game. I am a coward. Most of the risk where I am is simply due to an ATV accident, slip, fall, twist an ankle type stuff. | |||
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As Pedro de Sa e Mello once told me, dangerous game hunting is pretty dangerous, but it can be really dangerous when not done properly.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Guys, When I read some of the posts here on the this thread I think I've have the wrong idea about hunting all along. I've always thought that outsmarting the game was what hunting was all about. On purpose putting myself in harms way does not seem to fit the idea of out smarting the animals. In my hunting if I had to get very close to make the shot that was fine but if I had a great opportunity at a little longer range where the animals was unaware of my presence I took the shot. Does that mean I didn't hunt? I've always thought that the object of a hunt was to kill the animal that you wanted. I don't see why getting in the animals face makes a hunt and a good shot from farther away is not a hunt. I'm not talking about shooting an elk at 800 yards. I'm talking about taking a perfectly makeable shot a 100 yards when getting closer is not practical. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Someone once said, Hunting dangerous game is only as dangerous as you make it!" Some of us make it more dangerous than it needs to be due to ignorance or foolishness. 465H&H | |||
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I think half the danger of DG game hunting is getting shot by someone else; that is certainly true for the PH. I would guess there are more hunters killed in charter crashes each year in Africa than are killed hunting DG. Like I have said many times, certain mountains are far deadlier than any kind of hunting, yet you don't see the fascination with "dangerous" among the climbing crowd.. | |||
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I don't know the answer but how many ph's have been hurt or killed the last couple of years? It can either be by the animal or by the client doesn't matter in my mind. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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This isn't quite accurate. See the fascination with the Eiger as a counter example. That said, I completely agree with the general direction of your opinion. Statistically, the most dangerous part of any hunt is almost always the drive to or from the destination. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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Laughable! I've heard the very same argument made concerning getting from point A to point B by riding a motorcycle. Certainly, a car is much safer! But then again, even with cars, there is Ferrari and there is Yugo! Is the Ferrari foolish? Depends on your income and motivations among other things. But it certainly doesn't lend itself to a blanket statement of right and wrong. Guys, What is this fascination with trying to convince the other guy that our way IS the ONLY way of going about things, even things of similar interest such as our shared avocation of hunting? I hate to keep using the flying analogy but it happens to be a subject I know well, so please bare with me once more. At the airline I flew for, we had a forum not unlike AR, only centered around flying instead of hunting and shooting. I very distinctly remember a gentleman professing one day, that he had found the true meaning of Shangri-La. In his opinion, as good as the job got meant that his wife, who he referred to as "The Queen of Collyville", a small but affluent suburb of the DFW area where many pilots lived, would drive him to work in the morning at 7:00am whereby he would fly out to Boston or New York, turn around and fly back, arriving at 5:00pm or so. His "Queen" would be waiting for him outside the terminal with a couple of pieces of warm pizza and a cold beer for him to enjoy on the ride home in their National Truck of Texas, the tricked out Chevy Suburban!! He would repeat this same ritual each and every day, 4 days out of the week, spending each and every night at home with the family. After posting this, his followers would chime in with multiple "Harumph, Harumphs"! Personally, I almost fell asleep listening to his story of "bliss". Other pilots like myself preferred to fly the international routes, being gone from home 3 to 4 nights each week, going to places where we would enjoy somewhat lengthy layovers in destinations like Maui, Honolulu, Santiago, Sao Palo, St. Thomas, etc. Even in the international division, many preferred Europe for the more developed city destinations, while others, like myself preferred St. Thomas, Hawaii, and South America. Still other pilots at other airlines would scoff at the repetitive nature of flying to SA or the Pacific and preferred the charter business going to far more exotic destinations in West Africa and the like. The simple fact is that no particular guy had it right over the other guy. What was right for one, simply didn't provide the same sense of satisfaction as it did for another. No one way was correct and the others wrong. Some liked a bit of adventure, spending the downtime windsurfing in Maui while the other guy coached his kid's little league team by being home each and every day. Seems we have the same individualistic ideas concerning who hunts what and how they go about it. That's one of the reasons it's so important to meet with and interview several PHs when setting out to conduct a safari. You need to find out if his methods are in line with your ideas of how you want to hunt. If not, move on and find someone who's ideas line up with yours. But the line we seem to not be able to stay away from is disparaging the guy who does it differently from you. Why does it matter to someone how Mark Sullivan conducts his hunts if you do not intend to hunt with the man? Please spare me the tired old straw man argument of how it plays to the anti hunters. They have exactly NO concept of hunting other than it's all about killing for a thrill. Why not just get on about your own business and accept the risks and rewards you personally feel are worthwhile to you and your own situation. What is right for me might not be right for you and vice versa. I think AAZW is on to something when he says that mountain climbing is far more deadly than hunting and yet you don't see a fascination with "dangerous" among the climbing crowd. Personally, I find hunting DG up close in the jesse to be the same way. It isn't the "danger" for the sake of "danger" that I enjoy. It's the management of the risks in a controlled way that I find stimulating. For instance, some mountain climbers are happy to walk up the road to the top of Pikes Peak and claim they have conquered one of the "Fourteeners" while others go for the difficult face of Everest. It's not about the increased danger for the sake of "danger" but rather the additional challenge involved. After all, why do men climb mountains anyway? Hell, I'm scared of heights! But I don't call a man who wants to climb Everest a fool. It's his own business and I'm sure he has reasons that make perfect sense to him. | |||
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I love to hunt dangerous game, but I don't go looking for trouble and I try to avoid situations where it would present itself. If trouble happens, hopefully I am prepared. That simply says it all for me.  If I want trouble, I'll find plenty of it at work or back at home.  | |||
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and if you think this thread is good, just wait until april first   | |||
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Worth repeating, and to quote one of my mythical heroes The Great Santini as to why the thrill of dangerous game is just that; "It's better than dying of piles." jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Sometimes choices based on the anticipation of an experience may well put you in greater danger. We chose, with Andrew's blessing, to hunt Lion over bait with a ground blind and not a Machan. Because of that choice we had a very exciting experience and the video is on this website. All came out well but I suppose that immature Lion could have decided to try and enter the blind. All hunting can turn dangerous in a heartbeat regardless of the prey. You can easily die hunting in Alaska thanks to aircraft or weather, let alone an ill mannered Brown Bear. A bushbuck gave Joyce an incredibly close call and that animal was hit hard with a well placed 300 grain TSX from a .375 H&H. In short, sometimes we choose to amp up the potential danger on purpose for the experience yet other times the safest choice can still lead to a dangerous situation. All hunting, like life, is unpredictable. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I would say that the POTENTIAL for danger is exciting, in other words, the need to make sure you are doing everything as well as you can, knowing that not doing your part can cause someone, including yourself to be in imminent danger; however, you try and reduce that risk as much as possible. The laws in place make it rather difficult to risk too much (ie the need for a licensed DG PH in Africa, a licensed guide for Brown Bear, etc.) and with bad choices a bird hunt can have as fatal an outcome as any DG hunting situation. That is entirely different from deliberately getting in to a bad situation just to get the adrenalin rush. After all, statistically, DG hunting is not that much more dangerous than PG hunting in the same area. How many of us felt the ride from the airport was more dangerous than the hunt itself? Heck, when I asked about this with my insurance people, they didn't bump my rates, and if there was the flimsiest excuse to do so, I think they would have. | |||
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