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Without question, I can describe the three most exciting moments in my life; my first carrier landing, seeing AAA puffs around me whilst flying Surface Combat Air Patrol, and walking up to my "dead on it's feet" buffalo in Zimbabwe. Everything else is well, mundane. SO looking forward to that leopard hunt.... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Thank you Mr. Butler! You hit the nail on the head. Going out of your way to increase the danger to yourself and others, just to satisfy your sick desire for personal glory, is totally unprofessional. | |||
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Gents: Is the term "Dangerous Game" been over used in the past few years? Personally, I've always preferred the term "Big Game Hunting." On another thread that posted details of my Australia buff hunt I was taken to task for stating buffalo hunting is not all that dangerous. I mean they are basically cattle and every cape buff I've seen runs away. Now, my experience is very limited compared to many of you. In 30+ years of hunting I've only been in danger once and that was when caribou hunting and I crossed a mama grizz with a cub. She charged and I fired both barrels of a .500 over head, reloaded and remained still. She skidded to a halt 20-30 feet away and went back after her cub when (I assume) she could not see me nor smell me). But, I've never felt in danger when buffalo hunting and using a double with open sights and being a lousy shot I have to get closer than most. Just my thoughts..... Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Without a doubt the most afraid I have ever been on a hunt was when I hunted caribou on the AK peninsula back in the 80s. It was right after Thanksgiving, and my partner and I got caught in a horrific storm. I was up all night fighting to keep the tent up; we had to push against the wind for fear of it tearing apart. It was shot by the next morning, when after the winds subsided I measured them at 70 mph. I prayed all night that night. I sure thought I was in deep doo doo. | |||
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Todd, I am not sure why you disagree with my post quoted above. I suspect you either misunderstood it or interpreted something from it that wasn't intended. In general, I agree with what you have posted on this issue. Are you saying that no one ever increases the danger of a hunt by foolish actions such as approaching a downed DG from in front rather than from behind or through ignorance of proper DG hunting techniques or the ability to read animal threat behavior? 465H&H | |||
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465, I too agree with most of what Todd posts here, and like you I think he simply misunderstood your intention with what you wrote, and he doesn't miss much. I think Todd would be the first to tell anyone that the taking of unnecessary chances is a fool’s folly! However I think, and I could be wrong, but I think he believes you are referencing the Mark Sullivan thread, in that case he has a different opinion on what acts are unnecessary, or foolish! He is only expressing his opinion based on that. In any event what you posted in bold above is absolutely true! Some of the bad outcomes and the resulting injuries are the result of ignorance and/or foolishness! ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed: Sometimes, we have to break with the norms in hunting.  One time I shot a buffalo  , He ran ioff and then dropped in short grass. We normally aproach from behind But, in this occassion he would have been hidden behind some bushes untill we were almost on top of him.Instead, we approached from the front  , knowing full well that if he charged we can kill him.  Then you ask : When we go hunting, do we really go looking to place ourselves in danger ?  I don't know about any of you , but i certainly don't ?  I did not understand your point here ! | |||
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Mac and Walt, It appears I may have indeed misunderstood the exact intention of the highlighted post but I was trying to respond honestly on the face value of Walts comment. I was interpreting the comments in relation to the Sullivan posts so forgive me if I was off base. From my personal perspective, I have no desire to press my luck with excessively dangerous actions while hunting DG. However, going in close and in the Jesse is the way I prefer to hunt buffalo and elephant. I've been chased a couple of times by ele cows but don't think we've ever been in excessive danger. Some could legitimately say that close pursuit of DG is unecessarily dangerous compared to simply sniping a buff at 100 yards or more. If you can kill a buff at a distance, why close to 40 yards, right? But for me, I don't find anything special about a buffalo as compared to an impala under those long range conditions. If I was inclined to shoot from 100 yards, impala are much cheaper and actually present a more challenging kill zone. Regarding Mark Sullivan, I think it a fallacy to suggest that walking up to within a few yards of a wounded but not incapicated buffalo isn't dangerous, regardless of how one is armed. Too many things could go wrong that would fail to stop a charge, even one you are expecting, that death or serious injury is entirely possible. Now is that the way I want to hunt buff or finish off a wounded buff. Certainly not. But that practice IS dangerous. I've posted several videos of my hunts for buffalo and elephant. Those are a fair representation of the methods I prefer. I don't think any of those videos show foolishness in terms of the amount of risk we exposed ourselves to. Those hunts have provided me with an incredible amount of enjoyment and fulfilled my sense of adventure and excitement. On my son's buff cow hunt that I posted, you'll remember that I had him shoot with a scoped 375 from about 125 yards and from an elevated position. I'm willing to accept more risk for myself than I am for my son. So yes, I'll push things a bit but I think I retain a good sense of where the lines of extremis are drawn. | |||
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Saeed poses a very interesting question which might also be stated: To what extent should we insulate ourselves from what should be the appropriate dangers inherent in dangerous game hunting? As hunters, we can only preserve our sport if we periodically question our practices and hold them up to scrutiny. For me at least, it stretches credulity for someone intent on hunting dangerous game to then procure a high-powered scope mated to a large-caliber sniper rifle so that they can fire on buffalo from the safety and comfort of an adjacent area code. Here is an argument I have made before: We need to ask ourselves at what point, if any, does the distance of a shot change dangerous game hunting into target shooting? There is a difference: With target shooting, you need not rely upon fieldcraft to approach your animal – extreme distance makes such skills irrelevant. For example, should we consider a 200-meter shot on a buffalo dangerous game hunting? How about 400-meters? 600 meters? What if the shot is taken from a helicopter from similar distances? The platform shouldn’t make a difference in this case, given the irrelevance of stealth at those distances. Where do we draw the line? This is precisely how the cowardly business of hunting live game over the internet with computer-controlled rifles came into being. Of course, distance in the case of dangerous game is relative. I don’t know how someone can honestly define the common practice of shooting a river-borne hippo from 75-meters as it comes up for air as an act of ‘dangerous game hunting’ – unless the ‘dangerous’ part is quite separate from the actual hunting and is meant in some distant, unassociated, and altogether theoretical context. In my view, this style of hunting perverts the whole notion of there being some inherent danger in the pursuit of dangerous game. Shooting hippo in a river is no more dangerous than shooting a woodchuck as it peers out of its burrow. On the other hand, hunting hippo on land at close range seems both sporting and in keeping with the notion that hunting dangerous game should involve a modicum of risk to the participants. My point is not that we need to assume unreasonable risk in our pursuit of dangerous game; indeed, it would be foolhardy for anyone to expose themselves to unnecessary danger. But what is unnecessary? No one is forced to hunt dangerous game. For those desirous of a risk-free hunt, plainsgame are abundant and divorced of danger. On the other hand when it comes to dangerous game then perhaps those hunters unwilling to accept the risk of a fair-chase, close-in stalk to an animal that could, under such proximity and circumstances, harm you, might otherwise consider contenting themselves instead with safer pursuits. There is a culture and an art and a beauty - albeit brutal - to dangerous game hunting. Those alluring characteristics can only be preserved if we ensure that the pursuit of our trophy is as worthy as the trophy itself. Kim Merkel Double .470 NE Whitworth Express .375 H&H Griffin & Howe .275 Rigby Winchester M70 (pre-64) .30-06 & .270 "Cogito ergo venor" René Descartes on African Safari | |||
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Just because it seems relevant here - http://forums.accuratereloadin...231048521#9231048521 Some of those guys I haven't seen here in a while... | |||
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Saeed, Sometimes, I think that you start a topic just to "stir the pot", and then sit back and enjoy the resulting dogfight! If that be the case here, then I salute you for your brilliance! Since I am seldom at a loss for words, I will swallow the "sucker bait", and add my 2 cents worth. I do not believe that any of us ever deliberately put our lives in jeopardy just for the thrill of it, any more than we would put our bare hand into a roaring fire. I know that I initially hunted buff for the same reason that I chose to raft Class 5 whitewater--to expose myself to what could become a dangerous situation in order to see how I would react, and to learn a bit more about the inner me. The consequence of these activities, of course, was that I found that I just enjoyed the hell out of them, and developed an unquenchable thirst for the adrenaline rush they provided. I agree that the danger is more potential than real, but it exists, nonetheless. Joe Coogan recently penned an article with the premise that hunting dangerous game is actually safer than plains game, because we ramp up the precautions, and take nothing for granted. How many times have any/all of us nonchalantly walked up to a "dead" zebra or bushbuck without taking the time to see if it was really dead? Ernest Hemingway was no stranger to DG hunting, but he apparently didn't consider it as that. He cited mountaineering, auto racing, and bullfighting as the only true sports, since only those three presented a good chance of getting oneself killed. All other activities were to be considered as "games." If your idea was to prove that we do not take reckless chances with our lives, and do our best to eliminate the hazards inherent in DG hunting, then I believe that you have done so, and I heartily concur with you. If you wanted to vent against those who do take unnecessary chances with their lives, then I will advance the old adage, "One man's meat is another man's poison.", with the qualifier that he risks only his own life. No matter your intent, it has provided some very interesting reading! Cheers, Tim | |||
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Todd, I doubt anyone who hunts dangerous game would disagree with getting close instead of sniping from 100 yds. There is nothing silly about that after all, as you say, that would put the DG on the same level as the Impala. DG are only dangerous at close range, so what would be the point of sniping one at 100 yds when you can get closer. In the case of buffalo, and especially elephant getting close enough to be able the bullet precisely is a move that takes danger away to some extent IMO, and is in no way foolish especially with an iron sighted double rifle.
I have never killed an elephant and in fact have fired exactly two shots into the heart/lung area of a friends ele, as it turned to run from a botched frontal brain shot. This was by prior request of the PH because the bull was so close to the boundary. It could easily escape where we couldn’t go to collect him. Though my two shots were killers, they didn’t get a chance to do their work because my friends second shot, as the bull turned, took the bull behind the ear hitting the brain of the quartering away bull dropping the bull in a cloud of dust. However, on buffalo the longest shot I’ve ever taken on an unwounded bull was about 70 yds simply because we couldn’t get closer because of open 10 inch grass. Once wounded I will still shoot as long as I can see him, or till he goes down or out of sight. Once he is down and still alive I will approach from his back if he is on his side or his butt if he is on his belly and finish him lying on the ground. Though some of these things are quite close they are not IMO pushing the issue, but very prudent moves to finish him quickly as safely as possible. I’m not afraid of buffalo or elephant but I certainly respect them enough to know they are capable of killing me if I don’t do my part by placing the bullets where they need to be to do the most damage. Getting close is the way to do just that. I’m certainly not about to harass one to make him charge, because, as you say, if your next shot is not spot on, you’re likely to get more than you bargained for. That to me is where I call not ignorance but “fool’s folly”! I go on safari for fun not to get killed or crippled for what little life I have left! Lion I will gladly shoot at 100 yds if open ground, and hope he doesn’t get into the weeds wounded. The African lion is the only animal in Africa that scars hell out of me once wounded! I think we are all on about the same page, just stating it in different ways! None the less it is fact that we can make the hunt more dangerous than it needs to be, if we try! …………………………………………………………………………………........................................................ ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac, I have a short video uploading to Youtube right now. I'm not sure how long it is going to take to complete, but once done, I'll start a new thread showing two very different styles of hunting buffalo. I'll post a poll to see how many folks prefer one type over the other. For those interested in continuing this discussion, stand by. | |||
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Shooting buffalo at extended ranges especially with open sights can be more dangerous than shooting them up close-if you are willing to follow them up if you make a bad shot. | |||
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Here we go! | |||
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I havent read all the threads so sorry If Im saying somthing that has already been said. As a professional hunter that hunts DG from time time, I have 2 kids and a wife that are sitting at home waiting for me. I dont take chances, I dont walk up on freshly hit animals.I try to get a hunter as comfotable as possible and dont like snap shots at DG. I always give looong waits before, walking up. I always treat the animals as dangerous till dead. TOUCH WOOD ive never had an episode in 10yrs guiding. I think you can make dangerous game hunts as dangerous or as safe as you want it to be.( within reason obviously) my 2cents Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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I am going to play devil's advocate here and post a hypothesis on the danger of hunting buffalo up close versus at a distance. Let us consider the initial hunt only. Following up a wounded buffalo can be exceedingly dangerous and are usually confronted up close and is a separate issue in my opinion. The hypothesis is "Hunting cape buffalo up close (within 30 yards) is no more inherently dangerous than hunting cape buffalo at a distance (100 yards or so). Considerations affecting the hypothesis: Being close reduces the time to react to a charge. Unwounded buffalo are very unlikely to charge and prefer to run away when confronted up close (that is a real pain in the ass for me)  . It is easier to place a bullet in the correct place up close than at a distance, esp. when using an open sighted double. You are more likely to wound a buff as distance increases. I do wonder if the increased danger of getting close isn't more perceived than real. 465H&H | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting DANGEROUS Game Hunting, How Dangerous Is It Really?
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But then again, even with cars, there is Ferrari and there is Yugo! Is the Ferrari foolish? Depends on your income and motivations among other things. But it certainly doesn't lend itself to a blanket statement of right and wrong.