Hi,
I enjoy reading old hunting books and I realized that they used to take lots of living bait (most oft the time goats) for leopard bait.
What was the reason for that and why is nobody baiting with living goats today?


Best Regards

Dennis

quote:

Originally posted by Caracal:
Hi,
I enjoy reading old hunting books and I realized that they used to take lots of living bait (most oft the time goats) for leopard bait.
What was the reason for that and why is nobody baiting with living goats today?


Best Regards

Dennis

Many reasons I guess, though quite frankly I fail to see the need of having to subject a goat - or dog for that matter, to be used as live bait considering a Leopard hunt (which is only available in Africa) includes taking a bunch of plains game that provides an ample supply of bait as and when required.

Buying a goat and killing it is another issue though this may lead to the Leopard acquiring a taste for goat (assuming the Leopard fed but did not meet the requirements to be shot) and later creates havoc with the local village goat population.

This practice however was more common in India where plains game was not readily available.

The same criteria applies for cows and donkeys as Lion bait (unless the cat has already become a habitual livestock killer).

And lastly, eliminates any additional and unwanted criticism from the antis.

This act could (and has)lead to prosecution for cruelty to animals.
I Wonder if the Goat, Dog or Donkey would even know what's happening? And the conditions that those Donkeys live in, Its probably a good way out.

On our first trip to Zim in 1994 we used live goats for leopard. The theory was to put up a bait at the base of the kopje, then the blind and stake out three goats about 70 yards behind the blind.

It was hoped that as the sunset, the goats would begin calling to each other and draw the leopard out and hopefully when he climbed down the kopje find the bait tree before the goats. The trackers made little "goat handcuffs" for their front legs and tied them to mopane trees.

I do not know if the goats had any effect on the hunt but a leopard was shot and the goats returned to the villager. Even though we paid for the goats, it was not like we could take them home.

When leopard hunting was open in India,we generally used live goats and they were most effective in luring in Spots.

If set up correctly, the cat would generally come in within 20 minutes.

Of course there were the extra cautious panthers who would come close and observe the bait but would not come forth for a while.

I had a goat I got when he was a kid, who was a great caller. He would start bleating the moment he was left alone. Yet whenever a leopard came in he would put up a spirited fight generally confusing the leopard. I shot six leopards over him before retiring him.

Caracal,

The use of domestic bait animals in Zambia is prohibited.

A live bleating goat is apparently an awesome attraction to a Leopard. I have heard that once you have your Leopard feeding on a dead bait you introduce the live bait and sit over it.

I have heard that if things get really tough then tie a village chicken to the top of the bait on a pile of dry leaves. The activity attracts the Leopard and he will attack the bird thinking it to be a vulture. From this vantage point the chicken will see the Leopard well before you do.

This is what I have heard.

This is a true story. Panthers also love dogs so a well know local Indian hunter in the 50s had this big dog on which he used a thick wide leather collar with nails sticking out all around. The Leopard would come grab the dog by the neck get poked by the nails and jump back suprised. The hunter would shoot the leopard, never failed to work and he shot several leopards over this dog.

One day a friend of his who was dealing with an unusually tricky cat, asked if he could borrow the dog. So off he goes with the dog and the usual scenario plays out. The Leopard jumps back after getting poked and the hunter shoots. In the bad light he mistakes whos who and the dog drops dead! I don't know what he had to say to the owner and what the owner had to say to him!

quote:

Originally posted by skeetshot:
When leopard hunting was open in India,we generally used live goats and they were most effective in luring in Spots.

If set up correctly, the cat would generally come in within 20 minutes.

Of course there were the extra cautious panthers who would come close and observe the bait but would not come forth for a while.

I had a goat I got when he was a kid, who was a great caller. He would start bleating the moment he was left alone. Yet whenever a leopard came in he would put up a spirited fight generally confusing the leopard. I shot six leopards over him before retiring him.

Skeetshot,
Welcome to the forum.
Would love to hear more about your leopard hunting experiences. That goat had to ba a favorite--what was his name? The Asian forum would also be a good place to post.
Besides leopard and African lion, we have considered using goats in Argentina for puma.
I am headed to Belize for buffalo next spring, and may use a goat to try to get a jaguar in for photos.
I hunted African lions near Etosha using a live donkey for bait ( I felt sorry for the donkey and hoped he didn't get killed--(he lived thru my hunt at least). The "Greenies" who owned the ranch we hunted on had actually been feeding lions to draw them into viewing range of their chalets. They had tied a donkey to a tree. He couldn't run, and could only kick. He managed to stay alive thru several nights of lion attacks. The Greenies finally felt sorry enough for him that they doctored his wounds and put him back in the corral. Unfortunately, the corral was not lion-proof. They lost nearly all (forty-some) of their horses and donkeys to lions (they had one horse and one donkey still alive when I was there).

How you gonna get a live goat up in a tree so a lion or Hyena doesn't mutilate it first? I think by picking dead bait and a specific location (up a tree) you are narrowing you field as to not have to deal with unwanted predators.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
How you gonna get a live goat up in a tree so a lion or Hyena doesn't mutilate it first? I think by picking dead bait and a specific location (up a tree) you are narrowing you field as to not have to deal with unwanted predators.

I think India has far more leopards (and tigers) than hyenas. tigers are mainly day-time predators and usually avoid villages, whereas leopards will come not only near, but right into, the villages. Africa has areas where there are few hyenas and lion, but plenty of leopard (SA and Namibia in particuliar). Where there are many lions or hyena, you are correct in stating that bait needs to be out of their reach.

quote:

Originally posted by SGraves155:

I think India has far more leopards (and tigers) than hyenas. tigers are mainly day-time predators and usually avoid villages, whereas leopards will come not only near, but right into, the villages. Africa has areas where there are few hyenas and lion, but plenty of leopard (SA and Namibia in particular). Where there are many lions or hyena, you are correct in stating that bait needs to be out of their reach.

Tigers are largely evening & night predators. They tend to lie down in shade or even in water during the hot months. yes they tend to be found further away from villages but they were known to become cattle killers and frequented villages. Tigers tended to target cows and domestic buffalo rather than goats & dogs.

My dad shot 2 tigers in the 1950 over cow kills and 2 leopards - one over a live goat and one over a live dog.

The striped hyena in India is not considered a predator but a scavenger. However jackals are known to kill goats regularly as are wild cats.

Nakihunter,

Thanks for your reply,
Did your Dad know Jim Corbett?

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:

I do not know if the goats had any effect on the hunt but a leopard was shot and the goats returned to the villager. Even though we paid for the goats, it was not like we could take them home.

Returning the goats to the villagers.
Don't ever tell a Greek that!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:

I do not know if the goats had any effect on the hunt but a leopard was shot and the goats returned to the villager. Even though we paid for the goats, it was not like we could take them home.

Returning the goats to the villagers.
Don't ever tell a Greek that!

Or an Indian for that matter.....

Traditionally even educated people in small towns and villages had to butcher a goat once or twice a week for a few families. Nothing went to waste except the horns and hoofs & skin! The gal bladder was removed and possibly the lungs.

The lower limbs were stewed for hours until the cartilage became like jelly. All the offal was eaten. Got brain was a delicacy. Even the intestines were cleaned and cooked in a unique manner and served with specific foods.

Steve
My dad went to Forest College in 1946 & finished at Dehra Dun - quite close to where Corbet lived. They did visit his home in Kaladungi in the foot hills but Corbet was not home. he emigrated to Kenya shortly after that. In 1977 I visited Corbet's old cottage in Kaladingi. It had just a few cane chairs, his bed which was very basic, some pots & pans & his plate & cups. Also some medicine bottles.

I have been to Corbet National Park a few times and had the great privilege of seeing 3 tigers in 20 minutes! We were on elephant back and one tiger came and stopped on the track in front of us at about 20 meters and gave a great view for about 5 minutes.

Here is the story of dad's leopard.....

http://forums.accuratereloadin...241087821#5241087821

Very interesting.

Corbett taught Jungle Survival to British special forces during the war. With the partioning of India into India/2Pakistans, he moved to Kenya. He was hosting Princess Elizabeth in his tree-house lodge when her father died. "She went up a princess, and came down a Queen".

where do you suppose "get your goat" came from

I shot my first leopard over a goat. The goat was dead, however.

I watched a similar event on "Jurassic Park" trying to bait in a T-Rex with a goat (it didn't end well for the goat there either).

So my question is, and being a predator caller at heart, is the use of electronic game callers legal for this purpose?

I have chicken, turkey, pig, lamb, calf distress....etc. calls along with all the standard calls for coyotes, bobcat, mountain lion.

Or do we need the scent and smell of "live" bait as well for leopard? I understand the smell of dead bait.

Thanks for your opions.
If I get the opportunity to hunt leopard I will try it.

over a dead goat. my wife was not ammused about axes and goats

quote:

where do you suppose "get your goat" came from

Actually, the phrase came from horse racing. Owners would frequently stall a goat with a race horse to keep the horse calm. Competetors would steal the goat the night before the race, thus making the horse a nervous wreck.