My friends,

I just got back from a DG hunt and would like to share the following experience.

My client shot 270gr. Barnes X triple shock bullets loaded by "Double Tap" ammunition (??, out of an R8 Blazer in .375 H&H.

On the box they stated the velocity at 2,750fps if I remember correctly.

First was a Cape Buffalo. A difficult quartering away shot was pulled of by the hunter and we caught up with the Buff where he was lying up. He stood up (30yards) at the same time the trackers came running past us. The veldt was Mopanie woodlands.

As the Buff looked unhappy with our presence we both took snapshots. Mine (458Win mag, 475gr PMP solid handloaded to 2,150fps) went through a Mopanie about the thickness of my wrist, and broke the neck where it joins the shoulder.

He's shot was about 4 inches forward off mine also in the neck.

When we recovered his bullet I was very surprised to learn that although the bullet reached the vertebrate it did not break the neck as I would have expected.....? The "x-mushroom" was perfect if there ever was one. I do not believe the hunter got a tree on the way in.

The first shot performed as expected, entering a little back and got stuck in the rumen. Liver got a bit of the good news and that's why he felt in need of a bit of rest.

Second on call was a Hippo in the water. The shot was again quartering away, calling for a difficult shot just at the base of the ear, and little behind the ear.

At the shot the hippo was clearly not brained. He was finished with a shot or two later. After we butchered the smelly pig of the water, we of course cleaned the scull to see what happened. I was astonished to see the entry hole EXACTLY where the hunter was suppose to make his mark.

On further investigation it became clear that the bullet indeed did hit the right spot, but simply failed to penetrate. A (not so badly) deformed Barnes triple shock bullet was recovered, lodged against the scull, right where the brain was.

I believe the trauma caused too the scull was sufficient in drowning the animal, as none of the "follow-up" shots killed it.

Could the bullet hit the water an inch or so before connecting with the Hippo, and expanded prematurely? Loosing it's momentum?

I will try to post some pictures but since my Canon camera was stolen before the hunt and the Nikon replacement broke during the trip, I have to rely on photo's by others that is not in my possession at the moment.

The hunter is a private person and I respect his wishes not too post any other information. It is irrelevant to the post in any case.

The Barnes Tripple Shock X-bullet and Swift A frame in .300gr is my favourite Buffalo killer for hunters that want to use or have to use a .375 H&H. I have been a big fan of these bullets for many years. Although this was def.not the first .270gr Barnes bullet I have seen used on Buffalo, I simply cannot remember the other hunts it was used on Buffalo and/or Hippo to compare.

Might the velocity be a tad to quick and cause TOO rapid expansion.

I would love to get your input!

I was a big fan of the triple shock in both 300 and 338 calibers, but also experienced inconsistent performance. Running high velocities seemed to increase questions.
Finally went back to Swift AFrames and used them for both PG and DG critters in 300 thru 458 calibers.

I wonder what the actual velocity was compared to the advertised velocity.

I have not used the 270gr, but have had great success with the 300gr TSX.
15 PG animals & only 1 DG animal, a buff shot in the chest at about a 100yds, found the bullet approximately 3.5 to 4ft into the body cavity. 1 shot was all that was taken. My ph, Thierry Labat had recommended them to me.
I personally prefer heavy for caliber bullets on just about any rifle I'm using.
Not sure why the bullet did not penetrate better than it did, but think it may have needed a few more grains to give it the ump needed to finish the job quicker.
We are blessed to have a good variety of premium bullets to choose these days.
I like the TXS, but there are several others that are more than capably of carrying the mail these days.

I watched a documentary on Omaha Beach (D-Day) of WWII fame. In the documentary they addressed the issue of water on bullet penetration. It was an eye opener for me as just an inch or two of water was often the difference between being killed and not being touched by the bullet. So, if the bullet hit the water at a shallow angle (hence more water it passed through), it may have been slowed greatly.

With small sample size it is hard to make generalizations. I've used X and TSX's many years without problem. On my last safari I used 270 gr TSX's at abt 2825fps (chronographed). 4 shots, 4 dead buffalo (again, small sample size). Performance and penetration was fine.

I recall reading of Randy Brooks using the 270gr TSX's for buffalo. If anyone would be in position to get field reports, positive or negative, it would have been him.

I used the 270gr Barnes on several large antelope species including Eland pass thrus and one shot kills on all but a Gemsbock whose Heart had a 3" hole but the bullet failed to penetrate the far shoulder. My reloads were chronographed at 2800FPS similiar to John. The damage to the shoulders was so extensive one of the locals commented he would not use the bullets too much damage to the meat. Charl were they the Blue Tipped version a friend had issues with their penetration.

quote:

Originally posted by cnm123:
I used the 270gr Barnes on several large antelope species including Eland pass thrus and one shot kills on all but a Gemsbock whose Heart had a 3" hole but the bullet failed to penetrate the far shoulder. My reloads were chronographed at 2800FPS similiar to John. The damage to the shoulders was so extensive one of the locals commented he would not use the bullets too much damage to the meat. Charl were they the Blue Tipped version a friend had issues with their penetration.

I have not used them in .375 but I was on a hunt with Wendell Reich and he pole axed everything with these bullets in his .375 push feed.

I shot an elk last month with the .338 225 Triple Shock and got complete penetration on a very big elk at 25 yards - broke the shoulder and exited out the far side.

The 270 TSX is well designed bullet and and should work find ~95% of the time, but all bullets can fail, especially if they tumble and don't penetrate. Yet, a bullet that tumbles at high impact velocity should still be devastating.

I used 300 grain bullets because my PH said to do that, not 270. For hippo, he recommended solids. The softs (North Fork) pole axed everything from impala to buffalo. I've only used TSX in .458 (450 grains at 2200) and they worked fine.

How much were the bullets expanded? It's pretty hard for a TSX to not penetrate unless it expands too much or is going SLOOOWWWWW. Whatever caused the low penetration was not the bullet unless it expanded too much without shearing like it should at very high velocity.

I always advice my hunters to bring 300gr Barnes or Swift for their DG .375 hunts. This company however, only load the .270gr and my hunter was not happy with them for that, but it is what it is.

I am trying to figure out if it might be the combination of this load or other factors causing it. I figure there must be at least 40-50 Buffalo (maybe lots more) being killed annually but hunters on AR and more than triple that by the P.H.'s on here.

Between the lot of us there will be a pattern emerging. Currently one hunter stated he shot 4 Buffalo with 4 shots with this bullet. That's a positive result.

The bullet was the UNTIPPED version.

Before I forget. The first bullet on the Buffalo did not expand properly. 1 Petal Imploded and the other three just started to expand. In my humble opinion a tumbling Barnes bullet on entry caused by a twig or something just in front of the Buff....MAYBE??

I will try and get pictures on.

Thanks for the input and comments.

I do not believe Wendell pole axed anything....I need to see it with my own eyes :-)

Charl: I actually work with the brother of the owner of Double Tap, and will pass on this thread and the concerns. On our trip to Chewore South several years ago, Paul had some problems with 300 gr. Barnes X in his 375, while my 416 Ruger with DGS and DGX was outstanding.

Joel, I am preparing a writ for the folks at Double Tap and some of the info that is shared here will make it's way into that report.

If the findings are that these bullets at that velocity should not be used on Buff (IN GENERAL TERMS) we all maybe help save a Tracker/PH/Hunter somewhere in Africa in future.....

The hunter will also send them a report.

I almost exclusively use the DGS and DGX .300gr myself now in my .375 H&H. They work and I like the price....

Charl

I had an experience with the 375H&H which swung me away from buffalo and softs in the 375. I shot a buffalo cow at 90 yds broadside with a 300gr Rhino soft. The bullet broke the humerus penetrated the heart and was recovered in the offside pericardial sac. 40 minutes later that buffalo was still on its feet. The bullet was perfectly expanded with 99% weight retention for what that is worth. The shot was absolutely clear so the bullet definitely didn't hit any pre-buffalo obstruction.

Your experience confirms my feeling that 375 ballistics is not enough oomph for reliable soft point performance in all situations with buffalo.

I thought after this experience that I would rather use a solid in the 375 than any soft except the Barnes TSX on buffalo. Now your experience places doubt in my mind about that Barnes plan.

Maybe this is a perceived weakness in my mind about the 375, but it has changed my mindset in that I perceive the 375 to be a better elephant gun than buffalo gun! It does penetrate well with solids.

The .416 400 softs in my very limited experience seems to be the minimum for reliable performance in terms of penetration with softs on buffalo.

Regards

Martinus

I killed a lot of things with 270 and 300 grain .375 TSXs. Usually all is well, and death arrives in due, if somewhat slow fashion. Sometimes you just wonder if the .375 is lame or the TSXs are. The odd time they do something freakish.

A-Frames are my current go-to bullet in DG softs, and I don't see that changing.

The 375 is fine for DG. I killed a buffalo in Zambia recently and all three 375 Ackley Improved 300 gr TBBCs and one 300 NF-CPS were complete pass throughs - no recovered bullets. I started shooting and kept shooting into his mid shoulder/chest region until he dropped after running ~100 yds. This is my second buffalo with the 375 Ackley.

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:

Before I forget. The first bullet on the Buffalo did not expand properly. 1 Petal Imploded and the other three just started to expand. In my humble opinion a tumbling Barnes bullet on entry caused by a twig or something just in front of the Buff....MAYBE??

If a TSX was only partially expanded, I would expect it to penetrate several feet like a solid? Your description suggests it was tumbling.

I don't see how the load could cause these issues unless 1) they were squib loads, or 2) the velocity is too high and causes instability.

The instability might be the cause of the tumbling buffalo bullet, but would not account for the hippo bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
I killed a lot of things with 270 and 300 grain .375 TSXs. Usually all is well, and death arrives in due, if somewhat slow fashion. Sometimes you just wonder if the .375 is lame or the TSXs are. The odd time they do something freakish.

A-Frames are my current go-to bullet in DG softs, and I don't see that changing.

375 is lame... that is it!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
I killed a lot of things with 270 and 300 grain .375 TSXs. Usually all is well, and death arrives in due, if somewhat slow fashion. Sometimes you just wonder if the .375 is lame or the TSXs are. The odd time they do something freakish.

A-Frames are my current go-to bullet in DG softs, and I don't see that changing.

375 is lame... that is it!!

Well, they're no .458.

Swift A- Frame without a single failure since 1996. Never change a running system.

I don't know what caliber is best for buffalo. I don't know which bullet is best. The three most important things in buffalo hunting are first shot placement, where you hit them with the first shot, and where they get hit by the first shot.

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
Second on call was a Hippo in the water. The shot was again quartering away, calling for a difficult shot just at the base of the ear, and little behind the ear...
... the bullet indeed did hit the right spot, but simply failed to penetrate. A (not so badly) deformed Barnes triple shock bullet was recovered,
lodged against the scull, right where the brain was.

yet interesting that people have very effectively brained hippos through the region around the ear with .338/06-200gn mono metal.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
I don't know what caliber is best for buffalo. I don't know which bullet is best. The three most important things in buffalo hunting are first shot placement, where you hit them with the first shot, and where they get hit by the first shot.

So good placement with a 22LR is OK then?

Obviously, there is a limit to everything. For many years the 9.3mm/375 were used successfully for buffalo. Unfortunately, marketers have been successful in convincing people that their old standby is now inadequate. You need to buy this new rifle.
It is a shame I don't have a time machine. I could get into a heckuva debate about the .375---with myself. About 15 years ago in this forum I opined that the .375 was "neither fish nor fowl" (too much for PG and inadequate for DG). With more experience I found that I was wrong. I've shot them with .30 to .50 cal. The one common denominator I have personally found is that first shot placement determines if the hunt is short or long.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
I don't know what caliber is best for buffalo. I don't know which bullet is best. The three most important things in buffalo hunting are first shot placement, where you hit them with the first shot, and where they get hit by the first shot.

So good placement with a 22LR is OK then?

Quite right of course John. But what people dont always take into account with using smaller calibres on very large, heavy-boned animals is the effect that those heavy bones CAN have in stopping the smaller cal projectile from reaching its intended (internal) target. Deformation, over-expansion, lack of penetration from drag, deflection on heavy bone. These things are all reduced when you use similar projectiles in larger calibres. On the average shot of course it wont matter, the bullet will work and do its job. But do you insure yourself against those times when they do not?

So too - external of the animal - obstacles between the muzzle and the animal. Bigger calibre - less chance of deflection. It's as simple as that.

There are other factors of course - all well documented.

Elmer Keith had it right. Yes these days we can do all sorts of things with modern equipment - but IN GENERAL - the physical principles remain the same.

IME - 375 Cal is marginal on very large animals, even with the latest and greatest. They just aren't as effective on the shots that don't go exactly as planned (no fault of the shooter).

Had great performance on buffalo with the original Barnes and the TSX out of a 375 H&H, as recent as this year. Even the old PMP factory range loaded with Barnes at fairly mild velocities gave great performance. Had a complete pass through on shoulder shot buffalo cow.

With the Hippo I am reckon the bullet made contact with the water first

Personally on all regular shots that i would deem good on a buffalo I don't think the 30 grains will make much of a difference, but when it comes to raking shots, or quartering then the extra weight will be an advantage

quote:

Originally posted by Blank:
Charl: I actually work with the brother of the owner of Double Tap, and will pass on this thread and the concerns. On our trip to Chewore South several years ago, Paul had some problems with 300 gr. Barnes X in his 375, while my 416 Ruger with DGS and DGX was outstanding.

Blank,
You can pass along my comment as well. It is, I feel that while Barnes X usually works just fine, I personally prefer to use a bullet that always works.

I am surprised that no one has said it was the "Blaser".

I only used Barnes in my 338 Win Mag and i have no issues. Largest animal that i have taken with the Barnes factory ammo was a giraffe, which succumbed with one shot.

The only bullets that i have deformed had hit a shoulder bone (one peddle was turned in), i have had a few recovered bullets that had the tumbled effect, however i had hit a branch or under brush prior to the bullet hitting the animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:

quote:

Originally posted by Blank:
Charl: I actually work with the brother of the owner of Double Tap, and will pass on this thread and the concerns. On our trip to Chewore South several years ago, Paul had some problems with 300 gr. Barnes X in his 375, while my 416 Ruger with DGS and DGX was outstanding.

Blank,
You can pass along my comment as well. It is, I feel that while Barnes X usually works just fine, I personally prefer to use a bullet that always works.

Isn't that why they made the TSX?

Actually, the 270 gr TSX penetrates very well. Its expansion is limited. Compared to a 300 gr A-frame, it has 10% less weight but the frontal area is greater than 10% less. Net result is that the TSX penetrates better than the A-frame.

There is no such thing as the perfect bullet. As an example, I once shot a lion on the front shoulder on an angle with a 416 Wby, 400gr A-frame. Instead of dropping, he took off. When we recovered him we found that the bullet had absolutely shattered the shoulder, but the fully expanded bullet did not penetrate the chest. We found it--picture perfect--at the opposite rear end of the lion. It had traveled under the skin the entire length of the animal. A TSX wouldn't have done that.

In the for what it's worth category....

I used to have a huge hog/varmint hunting lease in Northwest Texas. 209,000 acres.

In an average year I'd kill 100 to 300 hogs. Everything from shoats to big gnarly tough old boars. I had that lease for 12 years. I consider free range hunting of non baited hogs to be about the very best practice you can possibly get for real deal African hunting. With that in mind I usually hunted with my African hunting rifles.

In those 12 years doing the simple math I personally killed approximately 2,000 hogs. And of those killed at least 50% were killed with my .375H&H using 270 grain Barnes X, TSX and 300 Gr TSX bullets.

My observation with the 270gr TSX was a bit surprising. A 270 gr TSX will more often than expected NOT exit on a medium to large hog, even on broadside shots. A 300 gr TSX will almost always exit any hog of any size from any angle.

Knowing what I know about the .375 TSX in 270 gr I would not ever use them on thick skinned DG. They are a fantastic elk and hog killer but there is a noticeable difference in penetration between the 270 and the 300 gr TSX.

BTW my 270 gr TSX was loaded to about 2700 FPS and my 300 gr TSX loads were at about 2450 FPS.

For what it's worth...

quote:

A TSX wouldn't have done that.

Don't think so? I had a 400 grain .416 TSX turn 90 degrees in a buffalo. Perfectly broadside, and yet the bullet was in the hindquarter. Range was only about 20 some yards.

I shot a 250lb axis broadside with my 375 with a 270 corelok, knocked him down,DRT.
The bullet did not exit & I have found little pieces of lead in several packs of ground axis.
IMHO the bullet simply disintegrated.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnDL:
Actually, the 270 gr TSX penetrates very well. Its expansion is limited. Compared to a 300 gr A-frame, it has 10% less weight but the frontal area is greater than 10% less. Net result is that the TSX penetrates better than the A-frame.

QUOTE]

In practice the far-side hide on the buffalo catches the vast majority of the good softs, which is not a bad thing. That sort of levels the penetration race since they are all (the good ones) are tied at the hide. That just leaves how much damage that can be done on this side of the hide.

Those that don't make it to the hide are all tied as junk.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
I don't know what caliber is best for buffalo. I don't know which bullet is best. The three most important things in buffalo hunting are first shot placement, where you hit them with the first shot, and where they get hit by the first shot.

So good placement with a 22LR is OK then?

I think they are talking African buff.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
I don't know what caliber is best for buffalo. I don't know which bullet is best. The three most important things in buffalo hunting are first shot placement, where you hit them with the first shot, and where they get hit by the first shot.

So good placement with a 22LR is OK then?

I think they are talking African buff.

haha

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
In the for what it's worth category....

I used to have a huge hog/varmint hunting lease in Northwest Texas. 209,000 acres.

In an average year I'd kill 100 to 300 hogs. Everything from shoats to big gnarly tough old boars. I had that lease for 12 years. I consider free range hunting of non baited hogs to be about the very best practice you can possibly get for real deal African hunting. With that in mind I usually hunted with my African hunting rifles.

In those 12 years doing the simple math I personally killed approximately 2,000 hogs. And of those killed at least 50% were killed with my .375H&H using 270 grain Barnes X, TSX and 300 Gr TSX bullets.

My observation with the 270gr TSX was a bit surprising. A 270 gr TSX will more often than expected NOT exit on a medium to large hog, even on broadside shots. A 300 gr TSX will almost always exit any hog of any size from any angle.

Knowing what I know about the .375 TSX in 270 gr I would not ever use them on thick skinned DG. They are a fantastic elk and hog killer but there is a noticeable difference in penetration between the 270 and the 300 gr TSX.

BTW my 270 gr TSX was loaded to about 2700 FPS and my 300 gr TSX loads were at about 2450 FPS.

For what it's worth...

interesting results - thanks. I would never, ever recommend 270gn pills for a 375 on very large animals.

I'm with Jaegerfrank on this one, never leave fish to find fish

I've spoken to John LaSalla of Safari Arms ammo and he highly recommends the 270 gr TSX in the 375 H&H.

I believe that's the bullet he hunts with.