I think that is a great picture of her and the lion. Wish she was my girlfriend.

Some very good thoughts and replies here gentlemen, hopefully we won't turn this issue into another judgmental pissing match. At stake is hunting, and social media is not our friend. This young girl wisely removed her "Friend" tab on her facebook account, but can receive messages (as of yesterday: 7/3/14). I support her right or privilege to legally hunt, and with whatever legal device she chooses to hunt with, but if we start rebuking her, then we do the anti's work for them.
Update: She has a new page, you can like and post replies only. Over 363,333 likes currently. Please support one of us! LDK
Here's the link: Kendall Jones on Facebook

Social media is definitely not our friend and the anti hunting forces are definitely our enemy, none of that is going to change, nor can we change it.

There is one thing we can do that will not add to the problem, and that is to stop openly attacking/rebuking/criticizing each other over our choices as Legal hunters.

Personal "ethical" considerations, are just that and should remain just that.

If what a hunter does is Illegal, that is poaching and should be treated as such.

A person making the choice to hunt something inside a high fence, even though many of us may not agree with it, it is their choice, and in this day and time we should not be setting ourselves up as judge/jury/executioner simply because that person choose to undertake a perfectly legal action.

JMO, nothing more.

Happy 4th Randall,

I think you know that fundamentally, you and I are on the same page. Where we disagree, is presentation.

Here's my analogy, I don't care about homosexuality, not in the least. What I disapprove of is, militant, in your face, accept me or else movements.

I think this is similar in that the anti's get whipped up into a lather when ever these FB hunting pictures come up. We, the "other side" in this tend to react with the same "in your face" almost militant counter attack.

Sometimes, under the radar is the wiser of two methods. Thats my only message. Under the radar.

Steve

Hi All,I dont post a lot but this just made my blood boil.
Calling her a 'hunter' is a f%#$%ing joke.The antis dont need any ammunition when the hunting industry provides them with plenty, when morons like this post such untasteful pictures. I find them disgusting.
Hunting will not survive if we dont self regulate and distance ourselves from such obvious publicity stunts. We should be lamabasting her ourselves. If we dont, the next generation, my son included, will never know what it is like to sip a cold beer around a campfire after spending the day in the bush hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
Hi All,I dont post a lot but this just made my blood boil.
Calling her a 'hunter' is a f%#$%ing joke.The antis dont need any ammunition when the hunting industry provides them with plenty, when morons like this post such untasteful pictures. I find them disgusting.
Hunting will not survive if we dont self regulate and distance ourselves from such obvious publicity stunts. We should be lamabasting her ourselves. If we dont, the next generation, my son included, will never know what it is like to sip a cold beer around a campfire after spending the day in the bush hunting.

No, we don't need to be further divided and must put up a united front. We are in the midst of a culture war, and we are losing the fight by arguing amongst ourselves. So I disagree with your assessment.

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
...
Hunting will not survive if we dont self regulate and distance ourselves from such obvious publicity stunts. We should be lamabasting her ourselves. If we dont, the next generation, my son included, will never know what it is like to sip a cold beer around a campfire after spending the day in the bush hunting.

So, hunting should be like prostitution? It is fine as long as done discreetly, and off of the main street?

I don't see why we should be "lambasting her ourselves" just because she advertised her hunting.

There are many hunting pages with dead animals on FB, though mainly guys. If she was not a young and pretty cheerleader this movement against her would not have gotten traction.

No, thats not what I am saying, never apologize for being a hunter, but do we as hunters endorse this type of thing? She is obviously NOT a passionate hunter, so it is done for all the wrong reasons. So by us 'liking' her on FB and giving her support, we are sending the message to the antis that we are ok with Bimbos shooting canned lions.

Happy 4th of July everyone! I support any and all legal hunting just like I support the US Constitution. If I do not like something, I just choose not to participate. I support free elections even when I do not like the results. I support free speech even when I do not like the message. I support all legal hunting even though I may disagree with the methods.

We have a new culture that cannot feed their cat or wipe their butts without posting it on social media. This young lady is doing what is the accepted norm today. As hunters and firearms owners, we need to tap into social media if we want our issues to be heard. Maybe we need a group such as the NRA/DSC/SCI etc. to come up with some guidelines or training to help us send a positive message. Most of us, myself included, could use some help so we do not sound like the delusional but passionate opposition.

Like it or not, young people are the future of everything that we cherish. We need to guide them and mentor them. I think some of us need to reconsider our personal opinion on what constitutes hunting. Modern technology uses pretty well crush all of our high and mighty opinions of ourselves as great hunters. Unless you walk everywhere and stalk game in a loincloth with a homemade weapon, who are you to judge if it is "hunting"? At the end of the day, we have to live with ourselves.

I support this young lady and hope that she influences more people than pillars of society such as Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber.

Happy Fourth to you and yours Steve.

You are correct, it is all in the presentation.

However, and please correct me if I am wrong, but to the best of my memory you and several other members of AR no longer post hunting pictures or rarely post hunting pictures on this site, because of the attitudes and comments of "Fellow"(??????) hunters.

Face Book is not the best place to post such pictures for various reasons, but comments by supposed "Hunters" like Snav, are just as bad, actually worse than those on FaceBook.

Notice how much support this young lady has got on FaceBook and compare that to the amount vitriol being spewed by members of this site.

Just my opinion Steve, but I am fairly sure that you know as well as I do, that there is NO way to present the hunters side of the issue in a manner that will be even partially acceptable to the anti's.

However, I do believe that having "Hunters"(??????) rip each other apart does as much or more damage than anything social media comes out with.

I will not live long enough to see it, or at least I hope I don't, but hunting is going to die and there is no way that can be changed.

Too many forces working against us, and the saddest part is, we cannot even support each other.

We are dying from within and no one wants to address that. Just look at the venom spewed forth in Snav's response. What kind of presentation is that?

Steve, I respect your opinion and I respect your knowledge and experience as a hunter. I simply view things along a different line and I believe hunters are their own worst enemy.

Peace be with you Sir, hope your injury is healing and you can get back to racing.

No you guys are perfectly correct. Carry on. You are right though about us dying from the inside and us so called "hunters" being our own worst enemies, so lets carry on exactly the way we have been, its gotten us this far. You have no idea the damage that this has done, you now have media personalities that were pretty chilled about the sport ranting and raving on social media, here in SA. Pretty influential ones. I wonder where you guys will go hunting when the so easily influenced African leadership bans hunting alltogether?

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
No, thats not what I am saying, never apologize for being a hunter, but do we as hunters endorse this type of thing? She is obviously NOT a passionate hunter, so it is done for all the wrong reasons. So by us 'liking' her on FB and giving her support, we are sending the message to the antis that we are ok with Bimbos shooting canned lions.

How in the world can you judge whether or not she is a "passionate" hunter? What type of a "thing" are we endorsing if we support her? If we show the antis that we are divided, they get a leg up on us. Everyone has their own version of what they consider the proper way to conduct hunts, which perfectly okay with me. But, I respect that we all like to do things differently. I think it is great that a young person wants to hunt. This in and of itself is good enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
No, thats not what I am saying, never apologize for being a hunter, but do we as hunters endorse this type of thing? She is obviously NOT a passionate hunter, so it is done for all the wrong reasons. So by us 'liking' her on FB and giving her support, we are sending the message to the antis that we are ok with Bimbos shooting canned lions.

You're being just as stupid and judgmental as the anti-hunters. How the hell do you know she is not a passionate hunter? Just as an example, she hunts with a bow, which makes her pretty passionate in my opinion.

Good for her and her pictures help get the African conservation is hunting message out.

It appears all hunts she did we're legal. Otherwise, I don't know why she would post pictures. It sure is a pretty lion taken with a bow.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Happy Fourth to you and yours Steve.

You are correct, it is all in the presentation.

However, and please correct me if I am wrong, but to the best of my memory you and several other members of AR no longer post hunting pictures or rarely post hunting pictures on this site, because of the attitudes and comments of "Fellow"(??????) hunters.

Face Book is not the best place to post such pictures for various reasons, but comments by supposed "Hunters" like Snav, are just as bad, actually worse than those on FaceBook.

Notice how much support this young lady has got on FaceBook and compare that to the amount vitriol being spewed by members of this site.

Just my opinion Steve, but I am fairly sure that you know as well as I do, that there is NO way to present the hunters side of the issue in a manner that will be even partially acceptable to the anti's.

However, I do believe that having "Hunters"(??????) rip each other apart does as much or more damage than anything social media comes out with.

I will not live long enough to see it, or at least I hope I don't, but hunting is going to die and there is no way that can be changed.

Too many forces working against us, and the saddest part is, we cannot even support each other.

We are dying from within and no one wants to address that. Just look at the venom spewed forth in Snav's response. What kind of presentation is that?

Steve, I respect your opinion and I respect your knowledge and experience as a hunter. I simply view things along a different line and I believe hunters are their own worst enemy.

Peace be with you Sir, hope your injury is healing and you can get back to racing.

Randall,
Yup, you're (in my opinion) correct on all accounts. I, and many others, just decided it wasn't worth all the BS to post pics and hunt reports here any more.

I posted some trophy room pics of my old room several years ago and got called an attention whore by some dipshit. Why would I post my new room? If I want to see it, I'll just walk over and have a look.

I think we are closer to the end than you may think. Social Media, one up man ship, the desire for acceptance and popularity are all going to spiral sport hunting into the ground.

My injury is much better, two weeks ago today I withdrew from the event. Yesterday, I threw my hat back into the ring for next year. Thanks for asking.

Regards,

Steve

Snav, Bimbos shooting canned lions! Really! Your second subject in a year and u pick this fight? Did the young huntress take the lion legally under your laws? Yes. Is she beginning a career she loves,probably, does she or family have a head start on some os us, no doubt. Is someone jealous, perhaps? Give the young lady some slack!

Steve, I understand clearly your comments about your trophy room. My trophy room, which I am sure is nothing like yours. Has become a place I like to hang out. I'm tired of folks coming to the house for dinner and trying to make me justify the trophies I have. They are personal to me, and will always be that way. The rest of the folks be damned. As far as the young lady is concerned, congratulations well done.

quote:

I think we are closer to the end than you may think.

No, and that is what I am afraid of.

I think hunting in America and Canada will hang on for a while.

Hunting in Africa, between the efforts of anti-hunters/the instability of the governments of the various countries and the activities of poachers, I feel that hunting in Africa is living on borrowed time. I hope I am wrong even though I do not want to hunt over there, because if hunting in Africa is lost, hunting in North America will not survive for long.

That's not my style, Bob.

My bad, I presumed people would be looking at the picture of the lion with something other than admiration. But you know what they say about presumption.
Oh dear I fear we are in far greater trouble than I originally thought.
This is a response I got on Twitter after voicing my support for hunting after the above incident hit the airwaves " I hope you and all hunters die horrible, disgusting deaths, you murdering Charlie Uniform November Tango 's " Talk about passion....
So gentlemen, by all means let us continue to defend and support the attention seekers.

It was good to see one influential spokesman on national TV this morning discussing the actions of this young lady and her family (with whom she hunted with). You will note I did not say defend because there is nothing to defend it only needs explaining (hunting as a sport) and the good it does for wildlife conservation. Of course I am speaking of one of AR's favorite whipping boys, Mr. Craig Boddington. I see people on here saying they won't post successful hunting photos WOW raise the white flag. I sure as Hell post mine of course I am an unknown, old, fat, white male so no one cares about my actions. As to "friends" that come to my house and complain about the trophies well guess what they don't get a second invitation. My office has over 50 mts and my clients (who help fund my hobby) don't have a problem and if they do I guess they accept them or find new counsel.

DOJ,
I am one whom will not post pics here. If you think that's raising a white flag, that's nothing more than a perception issue.

You just gave the exact same example, by stating, they dont get a second invitation to your trophy room.

I am doing the same thing as you, I simply am not inviting back, members here who can't just sit on their hands. The folks whom I converse with away from AR, get pics, hunt reports and fresh cookies as well.

I am just not inviting back the few azzhats whom ruin it for all the other respectful members here.

No difference as I see it.

Steve

I would imagine I've won over a lot of fence sitters on the African hunting issue by inviting folks over to see what it takes to hunt from reloading to firearms to equipment to heads and pictures than I would ever convince by plastering hunting pictures all over Facebook.

Public forums are a poor choice to push the positive side of hunting and most likely does far more harm than good. Unfortunately, ego trumps intelligence at times.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
I would imagine I've won over a lot of fence sitters on the African hunting issue by inviting folks over to see what it takes to hunt from reloading to firearms to equipment to heads and pictures than I would ever convince by plastering hunting pictures all over Facebook.



Public forums are a poor choice to push the positive side of hunting and most likely does far more harm than good. Unfortunately, ego trumps intelligence at times.

Could not agree more!!

Steve

I am one that will and does post pictures on here and I do so for two reasons. 1, I am proud of the kills I make, but I do not often have myself in the picture simply because the report and the accompanying picture are about the animal not me, and 2, I post pictures of clients and their kills or just their kills if they prefer, because it helps sell hunts.

I support this young lady and her success, but, at this point in time, I can pretty well guarantee that had the pictures she posted been of elk or white tail deer or Greater Kudu, the outcry would have been almost non-existent.

It was not that she posted hunting pictures, it was the animals in the pictures she posted.

Look at the that has been generated on this very site over pictures of lions that were considered too young or lions that were shot behind a fence and that was generated by other HUNTERS, not members of PETA or the HSUS or any other anti-hunting/animal rights group, but HUNTERS.

Hunter or Non-Hunter or Anti-Hunter, pictures of Lions/Elephants/Rhinos, alive or dead stir up some of if not the most emotional responses of humans in general.

Couple that with all of the press those 3 species have been generating over the past decade or so, ANYONE posting a picture of any of them with a hunter in the picture, male or female, no matter how legally the circumstances of the kill was, on some place like FaceBook is laying themselves wide open for such a backlash.

In the overall scope of things, such a reaction on a site like that should be expected. Getting a similar response from fellow hunters on a site devoted to hunting, is pure

How can we expect to save hunting, if we willingly attack each other game we have killed?

This is not about attacking one another on a hunting forum and I regret if it seems that way. However we are losing this war, and it is happening quickly. What this is about is being a little more clever. Let us not give the greenies atomic bombs to lob back in our faces by posting pictures on of all places FB! Especially rhino!
And then instead of just jumping up and applauding, should our approach as a band of brothers, organization or whatever not be a bit more circumspect and be along the lines of "while we absolutely support and believe that responsible hunting is the only way that widlife can be utilised in a sustainable way, we do regret the irresponsible posting of pictures that produces so much emotion"

Then perhaps the person could be contacted directly with a few helpful hints of how not to do it and provide them with an arena where people can admire them and their trophies?

Sorry Snav, but it does include hunters attacking other hunters on sites like this.

Whether it is over pictures that have been posted or reports about hunts taken on High Fence properties in Texas or South Africa.

Do you honestly think that there are not anti-hunters that join these sites just to gather information to use to push their agenda?

All you have to do is cruise around the internet and check into the various hunting forums/bulletin boards/chat rooms and the same attitudes and differences of opinion show up on each and every one, along with attacks by hunters toward other hunters over choices they make even those choices involve Legal activities.

Open your eyes and mind, and you will find out that just because what you are doing is legal and you are comfortable doing it, there are other hunters that will not view you as a hunter according to their thoughts and beliefs concern what is and is not hunting.

It seems like we have reached a point were Facebook and social media are able to influence the society. One of the lowest lows in new medial developments.....

quote:

It seems like we have reached a point were Facebook and social media are able to influence the society. One of the lowest lows in new medial developments.....

Yes Sir it is, but that is just the way things have evolved.

What kind of hunter would be "brave" enough to stalk dangerous game, but too shy to risk any form of debate about whether or not the sport should be allowed to exist by daring to post pics on social media???

I've posted pics of my hunts on FB and don't have a problem justifying the act or my pride in being a hunter/conservationist. As others have already said, we've lost if we're not willing to engage those who oppose us.

These are kind of idiots we are up against.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:


These are kind of idiots we are up against.

The problem Larry is not the idiots. The problem is the news feeds, facebook, and other social media outlets that stack the deck.

Take a trip to Dave Davenport's Leopard's Valley Safari Facebook page. He posts a clients animal picture, someone reports it as "unacceptable" and it gets yanked. Yet on his page someone posted a picture of a very young male hunter with rifle in safety orange vest with a photoshopped rifle crosshair on his forehead and a caption "Headshot in 3,2,1". Dave reported it and it was not pulled down.

It's social engineering and without a large well directed NRA style PR/Lobby campaign we do not stand a chance.

Do you hear me SCI - DSC - NRA?




The irony is Zuckerburg, the founder of Facebook, is a hunter.

LINK

Frostbit is right………… what is needed IS a well directed PR/Lobby campaign that has the backing of all the big hunting/conservation groups. I would like to see this but my life experience with humanity is that the personal goals, egos and monetary objectives of individuals and groups will prevent something like this from happening.

Would love to be proven wrong but nothing has apparently been important enough during my lifetime for something like this to occur…….. lots of talk, perhaps preliminary meetings and then it fizzles. In the end it always comes down to the fact that you can't get everyone to play nice and truly seek an outcome that is best for the group as a whole……….. no, it always collapses due to some wanting what is best for them as an individual.

As a society we are watching the most recent generations watch and seize upon the 'morals' being taught by shows such as Survivor, The Bachelor and other such trash TV. They can all hide behind computer monitors and "like" people they don't even know, as if it is somehow meaningful, while launching a social media attack in the next breath upon some business or individual they view in a negative fashion. And there are no consequences…………

Like it or not, "trophy hunting" has always been something that is viewed negatively by many, including a good percentage of hunters. You can spoon feed them all of the statistics and information you want, but it is never going to make it sit right with them. While I think we are making some gains in the minds of quite a few people when it comes to harvesting game for the table……………. globe trotting to kill game animals in distant lands to put on your wall is never going to pass the sniff test when far too many in our society let emotions fire the circuits instead of critical thinking.

You are also increasingly dealing with a population who's interests fall within fairly narrow parameters and there are fewer and fewer among us with a broad interest/knowledge base. They do not seek information, it must be spoon fed and if it does not conform to their interests, they glaze over and retain nothing.

And amongst ourselves? Hell arguments carry on here on AR for days and many pages with few willing to concede that the other side of the argument may actually be right or at least is offering some information/opinions that have merit. No…….. everyone is pretty damn sure they are right and this is especially true if most others within obvious circles agree and support the view.

So if it is going on here amongst where we should be preaching to the choir…….. good luck changing the masses perception and convince them that a young lady from a very wealthy family arrowing a lion that was raised in a pen and later released for her to kill is moral, ethical and in the best interests of the species.

Looks like the antis got their way.

http://www.grandviewoutdoors.c...-teen-hunters-photos

quote:

Embattled female hunter Kendall Jones has confirmed to Grand View Outdoors that Facebook officials deleted photos from the teen's social media account after protesters objected to her African safari kills.

Facebook claims the photos promoted illegal hunting despite Jones' captions explaining each shot was taken legally, or was not even of a big game kill.

“We remove reported content that promotes poaching of endangered species, the sale of animals ... or content that includes extreme acts of animal abuse,” a Facebook spokesman told Grand View Outdoors. “Certain content, which some may find offensive, can be used to spread awareness, and we welcome dialogue about animal abuse, hunting and other issues."

But the Jones representative said Facebook overreacted and could have endangered an investigation into death threats against the 19 year-old hunter by posters on her social media page.

“Facebook did remove several photos,” Jones spokesman Justin Cook confirmed. “One photo in particular was of a rhino being treated by a veterinarian. The rhino sustained wounds during a lion attack, and the veterinarian was treating the wounded animal. The caption below the photo explained the rhino was in fact not dead, but being tended to. Another photo was just a profile photo of Kendall in her camo. It depicted no blood, no animals, no nothing. It was just a photo of Kendall and they removed it."

An unintended consequence of Facebook's move could be that it makes an investigation into criminal threats against Jones difficult if not impossible, Cook explained. The FBI field office in Dallas is having trouble tracking down these threats because the photos and their content have been removed. Moreover, Jones' Instagram account was taken down, as well as a Support Kendall page that had amassed nearly 80,000 fans in just 13 hours.

“Her reaction has been one of caution, but she is unwavering," Cook said of Jones. "She understands what she did was 100 percent legal and conducted in a manner which aids in wildlife conservation efforts."

"Kendall comes from a family with a solid foundation and it will take more than a few keyboard warriors to rattle her cage," he added.

And despite the death threats and bullying from her Facebook posts, Jones intends to keep the hunt on.

“She plans to do more hunting in Africa as well as many other countries around the globe," Jones said. "The timeline and species surrounding those trips will be kept confidential to ensure her safety, the safety of her production crew, her trackers, guides, and professional hunters."

This is exactly why posting hunting pictures on FB is a huge error in judgement. This has only empowered the anti's to go "faster, further" and apply more pressure next time.

I post fishing pictures on FB, Why is the life of a fish, less valuable than the life of a Zebra or an Impala? They don't seem bothered by fish.

As much as I hate to retreat, sometimes you must lose a battle in order to win the larger war.

For all you that insist on continuing this posting of hunting pictures, what say you now? Post more? Screw FB perhaps?

Insanity is defined as… well, you know the rest.

Steve

I just set my privacy settings so only friends can see my pictures and posts....problem solved.

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
This is a response I got on Twitter after voicing my support for hunting after the above incident hit the airwaves " I hope you and all hunters die horrible, disgusting deaths, you murdering Charlie Uniform November Tango 's " Talk about passion....

You rail on about FB but you're a Twitter twit? That's rich!!

Steve, I still believe it boils down more to the animals in the pictures, than the pictures themselves.

The poses Kendall was in, in the pictures did not help either.

I still maintain, that had the pictures been of white tail deer/elk or feral hogs, no one would have said anything, or very little would have been said.

Not the uproar that has been perpetrated by both anti-hunters and hunters.

She made a choice and is going to have to live with it, that is nothing different than what all of us have done during our lives.

Would there have been this much discussion about it had she posted a picture of herself with a javelina??????

Care for me to answer that one?

Steve I think you know that this is not directed at you, because all of us are to blame to a certain extent.

I do not believe there is a be all, end all answer, if you have one I am more than ready to listen.

The only choice I envision, is too not call attention to ourselves in any way.

Steve, I am open for suggestions that don't sound too much like a complete retreat.

Hi Randall,

I'm reminded of the old saying "never pic a fight with anyone who buys ink by the barrel"

We need to understand, the Social Media prevue is just never going to accept us or our killing.

I do agree, a javelina or a deer, no-one would care. But it wasn't a Javelina or a deer.

It was, to me, for PR, which she got, I also think this stunt put hunters, DG hunters specifically, in a hole which will be difficult to emerge from.

I still maintain, a positive PR campaign is the only way I can think of to sway opinions.

First rule of Fight Club...