So I've been thinking about this for a few days now and I started a similar thread on another forum that isn't as "Africa-centric".

Are there any members here, or does anyone know of someone, who has NO desire to hunt Africa (provided they are physically able)? Even physical handicaps are less of an excuse these days since there are quite a few outfitters who are able and willing to accommodate those hunters who have physical ailments. If the answer to either of the above questions is "Yes", then why?

To me, Africa is the ultimate hunting destination. Over time though, I have met people (who are die-hard hunters) that have absolutely zero desire to travel to Africa, much less try and hunt there. When questioned as to why not, I've received a lot of the standard, canned responses - "It's too expensive", "It's too dangerous ", "It's so far away", yada, yada, yada.

This thread is not meant to be a criticism or a commentary on those who do not wish to hunt Africa. Certainly there are people to whom Africa holds no appeal. I am simply interested in hearing the reasons as to "WHY".

Yes I have a good friend who has no interest in hunting in Africa. He has been invited by another friend who is a taxidermist and who works here in NZ and in the US part time and hunts in Africa. But my mate has no interest.

He is a very good bush hunter with huge experience in deer stalking wild free range deer in areas that have very high hunting pressure year round. He is also a very good shot. But he has no interest in Africa.

It's not unusual to run into avid wingshooters with substantial financial means that have no interest in hunting 4-legged creatures at home or abroad.

quote:

Originally posted by Spring:
It's not unusual to run into avid wingshooters with substantial financial means that have no interest in hunting 4-legged creatures at home or abroad.

+1
I have a good friend who goes on 3-4 high end bird hunts a year all over the world. This fellow wouldn't go on a whitetail hunt, let alone a trip to Africa to hunt big game. I know this for a fact, as a vendor he deals with, knowing he was a hunter gave him a PG hunt in SA. He sent one of his key salesmen instead. To be fair though, I'm sure he would have gone to SA had it been a bird hunt.

I know a couple avid North American guys that swear off the D.C. simply because they fear it. Why, WTFK but they are denying themselves eutopia. AIDS, MALARIA, LONG PLANE RIDES, ITS TOO COMPLICATED. thats what I hear the most.

Nganga

Of all the hunters in the USA how many of them have never been outside their home State?

I would guess the vast majority of hunters do not even think about making a trip to Africa.

I have a couple of acquaintances and one close relative who fall into that category. They hunt deer at home, and one goes on a DIY moose hunt every year in northern Ontario. Got one moose in 14 years.

Some of these guys won't even watch a hunting show on Africa, or even on some of the more exotic North American hunts like muskox or walrus. They never tire of watching guys sniping deer from treestands.

Absolutely no imagination...

I was thinking of something similar this morning...
About an hours drive from me is a flash New Zealand safari set up. I have no doubt they run a great operation, and you would have a fantastic time with them.
But the prices! Packages from over 5000 USD and trophy fees of up to 10,000 USD for a red stag. Now these animals will score about a gazillion SCI, but I'm sure they don't have the local genetics... and they have goats listed at 1000 USD each - I've shot on nearby properties and the cocky (farmer) is happy for you to knock over as many of these pests as possible!
So what I'm trying to say, is if you want an amazing hunt - and have some money to spend surely any hunter would want to head off to the wilderness to hunt free range.
And that surely has to include Africa where you are not top of the food chain.

I know quit a few here in Denmark, that would never go to Africa. It simply doesn`t "ring a bell" to them. They are more than satisfied with shooting some roebuck with their .308W, doves and pheasants with a 12gauge.
On a rarly occation they might take to Sweden on a less ambitious moose shoot. The type of hunters here I know are not in for an active hunt, with long walks or crawls Africa offers. They preferre to just sit and wait for the game to pass them.

I beleive the writer Mike Venturino went to Africa and didn't like it at all and can't understand the attraction.

From his writing I formed the opinion that it was too far from home for him.

IMO to be untouched by Africa reveals a very limited soul.

Yes, I have a friend that has never hunted Africa and seems to have no real desire to go. He thought about it some when his wife gave him permission to go. Why does he not go? He is an idiot.

Pinotguy: That's actually a fairly common disposition held by many well to do, big game hunting enthusiasts in the states.

Until you've actually tasted something, it's understandable why you may not like it.

Many U.S. citizens have a perception of Africa as being that of what you see at 2:00 a.m. on the infomercials produced by the relief agencies. Of course safari hunters know Africa is not all bloated bellies, jaudiced eye sockets with tsetes landing on your head. Unfortunately, that is the perception promulgated by some cable stations and networks. (Did I say that?) Yes I did.

For a different pictorial of Africa, I ask them to subscribe to The Africa Channel, and then they start to see Africa in a whole new light.

Even my Black friends and family members, who I'd think are more compassionate and understanding often ask me, "Aren't you scared when you go?" "Did it smell bad?" "How do you wash your clothes?" They're ignorant! And when you're ignorant you're fearful. You're scared.

Everybody on this forum has done Africa something good in his or her lifetime, and it's important that we keep educating those people who are ignorant. As we all know, it only takes one trip to the motherland to fall in love.

Thanks for posting the question to stimulate thought.

There are numerous reasons for a person of financial means and fair physical condition to not want to hunt Africa even if they are active hunters at home. There are two reasons that come most prominently to mind for me. The first is that many people will avoid any change in their lives at all costs. All of the different confronts involved in safari are just very unsettling to these guys. Safari is jusy way out of their comfort zone. The second reason is that some folks do not see hunting as something you would spend serious money on and particularly in a foriegn country. They just don't have fever.

I think we also have to realize that a great many American hunters think Africa is only for the "Rich SCI types" and its not really hunting anyway.

Mark

I have a number of "true" hunting fanatics that are totally turned off by the image they have of a bunch of fat guys shooting a lot of "stuff" out of a Toyota. I tell them that "real" Africa is not like that, but it's difficult to change that image that many hunting videos support.

Jim

I live in Seattle and have no desire to go salmon fishing. People here think I am an idiot. But, i'd rather take a 7 foot 4 weight and hit teeny little mountain streams that I can almost straddle for brookies. Tuna fishing though, that's a whole different story...

It's just whatever blows yer skirt up. I cannot expect anyone else to have the same passions as I and thank Buddha I don;t have to have the same passions as others...

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
I live in Seattle and have no desire to go salmon fishing. People here think I am an idiot. But, i'd rather take a 7 foot 4 weight and hit teeny little mountain streams that I can almost straddle for brookies. Tuna fishing though, that's a whole different story...

It's just whatever blows yer skirt up. I cannot expect anyone else to have the same passions as I and thank Buddha I don;t have to have the same passions as others...

That is right. Different strokes for different folks. Thank God for that.

I have friends that said if they ever live long enough to get back home, they'd never leave US soil again. They are extreme big game hunters; one a life long Taxidermist and guides in Alaska & NM. They have no desire to be in another country...and they served ours during wartime. I can respect their view.
LDK

There are lots of "hunters" that have no interest in hunting any species other than what they can hunt for free in their home state. In Alabama, very few deer hunters have any interest in any other animals, period. A few would get charged up about a moose or an elk, but they will not take any step to make such a hunt a reality. I, for one, am done trying to convert them. You can lead a horse to water . . .

I never read a book or even had a passing thought about hunting Africa until a neighbor said to me one day, "Have you ever thought about going on safari in Africa?" handing me a Cabelas flyer. "Nope," I said, "why would I?" Cause you can shoot lots of different animals there that the same price would only get you one anywhere in the USA or Canada.

Being a sucker for a good deal, we booked a month before I joined this forum. The reason Africa never crossed my mind was that it never occurred to me that a blue-collar working stiff could afford it.

I'm glad I went, but unlike some fanatics, thinking about it doesn't consume my every waking minute.

One of my best friends and hunting companions will not go to Africa. He has hunted all over US, Canada and Alaska. He travels alot in the oil business to most of the bad places and cannot convince himself to go with me to Africa. I have offered to pay for his trip, he just does not want to go. He has taken 40 or more elk, deer, moose, black and brown bears and sheep. I am still trying however.

I know some people feel that way, but I will never understand why.

I like the way that Sly used to say it.

Different strokes for different folks,
And so on, and so on and scooby-dooby-doo

Ooh, sha, sha,
We got to live together.

Music optional.

Will, you are absolutely right. Some can't seem to think beyond their own back yard or hot dogs and tube socks at the flea market. Yet, it's what makes the world go round. It takes vision to see past ones own back yard.
Cheers,
David

quote:

I have offered to pay for his trip, he just does not want to go.

Dibs on standby

quote:

It takes vision to see past ones own back yard

It also takes vision to see what is right in front of one's face; maybe they think the same about people who always want to go away to do things and wonder why they cant seem to enjoy the things close to home. I seem to fit both categories...

I am surprised at the number of hunters who have no desire to hunt Africa. They are absolutely 100% addicted to mountain hunting for sheep and goat.

I am either arranging their air travel to Mongolia for Argali sheep, Pakistan for Urial/Ibex, Tajikistan for Marco Polo sheep and on and on and on.

There are approximately 40 different recognized sheep and 39 goats in the world (according to S.C.I.) so they stay pretty busy.

One of my hunting buddies, we go on a whitetail hunt annually, has absolutely no interest in going to Africa, or for that matter, anywhere else to hunt. His one whitetail hunt is enough. My other buddy accompainied me on my last hunt, shot a buff and assorted plainsgame, and is counting the days until our next hunt. Too expensive, too far, who knows.

Trying to figure out why other people like what they like gives me a headache. Hell, I have enough trouble figuring out what I like.

Is Africa thye absolute zenith of hunting? Maybe. But, I know a few sheep hunters who would beg to differ. And I know a couple of deep sea fisherman who would view the cost of a fine African hunt as the mildest of inconveniences...sort of like a dozen or so new Penn saltwater reels.

This stuff is supposed to be fun, so do what blows your skirt up and allow me to do the same.

Good hunting, however you choose. Or fishing, for that matter.

If I could never hunt again I would still be in Africa. Granted I would have a camera or a fishing pole in hand but I would be there.

I traveled to and worked in Africa from '87 until '98. What I saw during several of those years was enough to gag a maggot.

I only did my first hunt in 2005. It was a revelation to me to discover that one could actually enjoy himself there, and I followed up that RSA PG hunt with two buff hunts.

I've probably done my last hunt there, retirement income being what it is, but I would like to go back.

Hunting buff is one of the most gratifying experiences I've ever had.

But if I don't return, I'll live with it.

My only regret is that I didn't start hunting there earlier when I could ride international carriers for free, back during the early and middle 90's, when safaris were a lot cheaper.

I have an ex-hunting buddy who spends a fortune hunting Saskatchewan whitetail and Mexican mulies every year. He did a black bear float trip to Alaska. He went to Africa once, a PG trip to Zim with a mutual friend.

I have repeatedly told him how rewarding a DG hunt is, but, truth be told, he just lacks the intestinal fortitude to take on old blackie on his own turf.

He'd rather sit in a tree stand in minus twenty F waiting for a big Canadian buck to walk out, than stalk buff in the thorn.

And I think he is so far out of his comfort zone, with all those black faces all around, the strange customs, the totally different experience that is Africa, that he will never return. Like some have said, different strokes.

I've hunted Saskatchewan twice and Manitoba once, and I absolutely love it because of the beauty of the places and the quality of the animals, but IMHO, nothing much in the hunting world compares to stalking a dugga boy in thick thorn in Kitiangare over dry leaves, with the ninjas all around you, carefully watching every step, knowing you can get blindsided at any moment, and making a good shot, bringing the experience to a very satisfying conclusion. In the world of hunting, it just doesn't get any better than that. For me, anyway.

I have an intense love/hate relationship with Africa that will never be fully reconciled. But if I got lucky and made a pile of cash, I know where I would spend a batch of it. I'd be on the phone to Wendell the second the check cleared.

Though a lifelong country boy and shooter, my attitude to Africa used to be one of disinterest.

Perusing game fairs and seeing the outfitters with their photos of clients posing: "pasty faced fatties with their big dead cows", I remember commenting to a friend at one such event, was a turn off for me personally.

I am primarily a bird shooter and shooting big animals never really appealed. I had no objection to shooting big stuff, birds just float my boat more.

It seemed to me that hunting rabbits on your own with a .22 rimfire was more a challenge to your stalking and marksmanship than walking up to a rhino or Kudu, that your PH had found for you, and plugging it from 50 yards.

Now I have hunted Africa my attitude has changed to a lot of it. Elephant hunting gets the blood moving and I really fancy a buff with an old double rifle but I remember my lack of interest prior to my first trip.

Ignorance, they think it's not a financial option, or both.

Brett

Before my first trip, I always thought the animals of Africa were very interesting. However, I never thought about hunting them.

In 2004 while still in grad school, I won a partitial scholarship to attend an international meeting within my field of study in Durban, RSA. Knowing I was going to Africa, I started looking around at the potential costs of a safari. I quickly learned that since I'd already be there, the hunt itself was not as costly as I thought. I booked a hunt, and the rest is history.

I have a friend who would never think about hunting in Africa. However, he'll travel the world hunting ducks.

David:

I had three half brothere who fought in armor and infantry in WW2 in Europe. When the last of them (and youngest) came home and we had a dinner for him -my Dad asked what he wanted to do now? -stay in the Army?" Charlie replied "Dad, If they make me a general, I want out!". There are a lot of guys,I'm sure who come home from a war -who want no more part of firing a firearm. It's how they feel -and maybe, they feel they don't have to try to measure up their manhood against an animal. David, I know that last comment must sound like I'm anti-hunting - and I assure you I am not against hunting -which has been in my bones since I was 8 years old. It's just that people who have heard guns goes off (in a different way)are entitled to do what they want thereafter with guns that go bang.

quote:

I know that last comment must sound like I'm anti-hunting

It does. Sounds pretty cynical, IMHO.

I doubt if any men here who love to hunt Africa feel they have anything to prove.

I've heard my share of guns go off (in a different way) as you say, but that doesn't affect my enjoyment of African hunting in the least.

just go to a fnaws convention & you'll find lots of guy that are totally obsessed by mountain game that they have absolutely no interest in africa

I have a friend here in France who is the most avid wild boar hunter I have ever met. I think he knows personally every wild boar in a radius of 20 km. He has absolutely no desire nor interest, not even out of curiosity, to hunt in Africa. I keep trying to convince to try it at least once, because he is a very good hunter and would be a great camp partner.

I myself always dreamed about hunting in Africa (and a lot of other places outside the state where I live) but up until ten years ago assumed it was finacially out of my reach. After all, you fly half-way around the world to get there, you have to pay a guide and his staff, etc. Then I got to be friends with a guy who was getting ready for his third trip and we talked. It was he who made me realize that, especially if you can use miles for the ticket (which is what I do), it isn't really that bad. By putting a bit aside each week, I can afford a hunt of one sort or another every three years or so (not nearly enough, of course, but I can do it!) I do think that the cost of going is really an impediment to a lot of very serious hunters. My brother, who loves hunting at least as much as I do, and is probably similarly situated finacially, has decided he can't justify the expense. It's a matter of priorities.

I do agree, though, that there are a lot of very keen hunters here in NA who probably could afford to make hunting in Africa a priority but do not because of the "different-ness" of it. I think it is the same mind-set that keeps folks from travelling to other countries-- except as part of a well-organized group. They are uncomfortable with the different food, smells, language, currency, customs, climate, hygiene, etc. They will go to Mexico, for example, only if they can stay at an all-inclusive resort where they can eat American food and speak English to the staff, only venturing out of the compound walls to buy trinkets. Certainly if a person does not have any desire to experience things outside of the "norm," the things he is used to, hunting in Africa would be more of a hassle than an adventure.

I feel very sorry for people like that. Their horizons are way too close and narrow.

This may be a bit long but I think it will explain why some people may feel they have no need to hunt Africa and at the same time how those feelings can change.

I grew up reading Field & Stream, Outdoor Life, Hemingway, Ruark, and others. No one in my immediate family hunted, except a couple of cousins and they were fairly unsuccessful Pennsylvania deer hunters. I think it was more a one week vacation than anything else for them.

I shot bow and arrow from an early age and became pretty good. Spent hours behind the house shooting and making up fantasy hunts like I had read about in magazines and books. At 16 I got the opportunity to hunt Whitetail during an early archery season in PA with a man from the neighborhood. They had a hunting camp in upstate PA and went for archery mainly to get away from their wives. None could shoot a bow period!! They posted me up on a game trail and went further up the hillside. I moved to a root ball of a blow down for cover and killed a (legal) doe an hour later. I got picked on because the deer was small, not a buck, etc. Hey, I just wanted to taste Venison.

Hunted deer with a bow off and on the next few years and scored a couple more. I liked the challenge of camo, concealment, and knowing the habits of the deer from scouting a local area after I had gotten into it. Felt like a chess game. I always ate what I killed.

Fast forward twenty years later and my wife and I end up in Bush Alaska. I reverted to rifle hunting for Caribou and Moose to fill the freezer. The thrill of the chess game changed to the thrill of back country Alaska and the ability to negotiate the rivers, and camp in areas where a mistake could be costly.

Mark Young lived there as well. He had been bitten by the African bug and their house started to fill with “dead heads”. We thought, more power to them, he and Sadie obviously love going over and selfishly we would ask to bring visiting friends over to see their mounts. Honestly though, I had no will to go hunting for other than freezer meat.

When I had become burned out by my employer, I knew I was leaving the area maybe a year before we did. I started thinking I might regret sitting on a porch someday, looking back having never hunted a Brown Bear. I could do it for $25 and an air taxi.

I ended up flying in, self guided, for nine days of the best hunt and outdoor experience of my life. I took a hunting partner with me as backup who had no interest in killing a bear. Killed my Bear on day 5 and spent the next four days caring for the hide and skull while glassing the carcass of the only animal I have ever killed and didn’t eat. I realized it became a smorgasbord for Eagles, Ravens, Fox, and at least one Wolverine. Nature wastes nothing even if you didn’t eat it.

So my feelings have changed and I am now booked (ironically through Mark) for my first and probably not last Safari for Plains game and Buffalo in two different African countries this September. It’s been two years of planning and evolution of planning. Far too complicated to cover here. But suffice it to say it feels like the chess game all over again and I’m not even there yet. Reading this forum regularly has allowed me to visualize other’s experiences and to dream of mine.

So, in closing, the bottom-line is for some hunters Africa can be mistaken for a trophy quest only and not everyone wants trophies.

for me it is that the negatives outweigh the positives.
and i have strong aversion against spending 8000$ in one week.

I think the reason has more to do with human nature and less to do with Africa. Besides Africa, I have hunted quite a few places in North America and I am always amazed at the number of hunters that I’ll run into in camp that have been coming to the same outfitter for many years, often unsuccessfully. I vividly remember running into a guy in Wyoming that had been coming to the same place and hunted the same mountain for 14 or 15 years, had connected on only a handful of average elk and stayed in the same broken down bunkhouse. And this wasn’t a particularly cheap hunt either. For what he spent on those hunts he could have taken just about everything in North America (minus the sheep) and seen a helluva lot of beautiful scenery. But he knew the outfitter/guide, knew the woods and knew his bunk and he was happy. When he left he left a deposit for the next year. Some guys just need to stick with the devil they know.