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One AR member, my friend is hunting elephant now as we speak... Trophy bull....



Mike


Michael Podwika... DRSS bigbores and hunting www.pvt.co.za " MAKE THE SHOT " 450#2 Famars
 
Posts: 6767 | Location: Wyoming, Pa. USA | Registered: 17 April 2003Reply With Quote
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ABB (Anyone But Bob) will no doubt be an improvement. However, in my opinion, even though he is the best of all the bad choices available to some minority whites and most disaffected blacks; I doubt if Morgan Tsangarai is going to be the savior of Zimbabwe. First he is out of his depth intellectually and lacks the dynamic, forceful personality necessary to succeed as the leader of a rapidly declining country. Second he is a union leader, which means his core beliefs are socialist which is a failed political notion even in stable countries. And finally, he does not have the clear support of the armed forces which means his term in office could be very brief.

I have many good friends in Zimbabwe and I certianly am happy if they are finally rid of Mugabe, but believe they will continue to suffer at the hands of an incompetent new government.
 
Posts: 1144 | Location: Green Country Oklahoma | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Latest (12:29 PDT):

Mugabe loses control of Zimbabwe parliament



By Nelson Banya 1 hour, 4 minutes ago

HARARE (Reuters) - President Robert Mugabe fought to survive the biggest crisis of his rule on Wednesday after losing control of Zimbabwe's parliament for the first time since taking power after independence.

The opposition Movement for Democratic Change said Mugabe had also been defeated in a presidential election last Saturday and should concede defeat to avoid embarrassment.

Mugabe's aides angrily dismissed the MDC claim, hinting the opposition could be punished for publishing its own tallies despite warnings this would be regarded as an attempted coup.

But the state-owned newspaper and projections by Mugabe's ruling ZANU-PF party conceded that he had failed to win a majority for the first time in 28 years.

Official results of the parliamentary election, which have trickled out slowly since last Saturday's election, showed that Mugabe's ruling ZANU-PF could not outvote the combined opposition seats.

Official figures said the mainstream Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) had taken 105 seats, a breakaway faction 9 and an independent 1 in the 210-seat parliament.

Mugabe's ZANU-PF has so far taken 94.

Mugabe, 84, faced an unprecedented challenge in the elections after being widely blamed for the economic collapse of his once prosperous nation.

The mainstream MDC faction said its leader Morgan Tsvangirai had won 50.3 percent of the presidential vote and Mugabe 43.8 percent according to its own tallies of results posted outside polling stations.

No official results have emerged in the presidential vote.

But all the signs are that Mugabe, a liberation war hero still respected throughout Africa, is in the worst trouble of his rule.

MDC Secretary General Tendai Biti said Tsvangirai had an absolute majority, enough for outright victory, but he would accept a second round runoff against Mugabe "under protest."

Analysts said the president was likely to be humiliated in a runoff and the defeat in the parliamentary vote would remove some of his power of patronage -- a plank of his long and iron rule.

His government called the MDC claim "mischievous."

Deputy Information Minister Bright Matonga told Sky television: "President Mugabe is going nowhere. We are not going to be pressurized into anything."

ARMY

Matonga said in a telephone interview with Sky: "No-one is panicking around President Mugabe. The army is very solidly behind our president, the police force as well."

Mugabe's spokesman, George Charamba, said the MDC was in contempt of the law by announcing results. "You are drifting in very dangerous territory and I hope the MDC is prepared for the consequences," he said.

Mugabe, known for his fierce and defiant rhetoric, has not been seen in public since voting, despite speculation he would make a television address on Tuesday night.

The government appears to have been preparing the population for a runoff by revealing its own projections showing a second round would be required in the statutory three weeks after last Saturday's vote.

Both Tsvangirai and the government have dismissed widespread speculation that the MDC was negotiating with ZANU-PF for a managed exit for Mugabe, who has ruled uninterrupted since independence from Britain in 1980.

Analysts said Mugabe was unlikely to make a negotiated exit but go down fighting in the second round.

"He is not the type that quietly walks away into the sunset," a senior Western diplomat said in Harare.

The prospect of a runoff has raised fears both inside and outside Zimbabwe that the hiatus before a new vote would spark serious violence between security forces and militia loyal to Mugabe on one side and MDC supporters on the other.

The state-owned Herald newspaper also said the government had decided to immediately implement tax relief to cushion the effect of runaway inflation, officially over 100,000 percent but estimated to be much higher -- the world's highest rate.

The widening of workers' tax-free threshold tenfold to 300 million Zimbabwean dollars per month -- $10,000 at the government's official rate but about $7.50 on the black market -- is widely seen as an attempt to curry favor with voters and suggests ZANU-PF is preparing for a runoff.

The opposition and international observers said Mugabe rigged the last presidential election in 2002. But some analysts say the groundswell of discontent over the economy is too great for him to fix the result this time without risking major unrest.

Apart from surreal inflation and a virtually worthless currency, Zimbabweans are suffering food and fuel shortages and an HIV/AIDS epidemic that has contributed to a steep drop in life expectancy.

The opposition, including former Finance Minister Simba Makoni, who stood as a third candidate, is expected to unite behind Tsvangirai if there is a runoff.

(Additional reporting by Nelson Banya, Cris Chinaka, MacDonald Dzirutwe, Stella Mapenzauswa and Muchena Zigomo, Kate Kelland in London)

(Writing by Barry Moody; editing by Matthew Tostevin)


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Posts: 2781 | Location: Hillsboro, Or-Y-Gun (Oregon), U.S.A. | Registered: 22 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I'm in Germany for my 4th back operation Frowner and its all over the news here-constantly it seems i'm stuck in bed. With alot more indepth information than is on CNN in America, i just got here yesterday, anyways heres what I have seen:

Bob is quiet and MIA, not much word from the Zanu-PF,

Morgans people declaired victory with 50.2%(?) margine, and stating Bob had around 34%,they said Morgan is hiding for security reasons-which makes sence to me. Some of the MDC people are talking.

From my understanding ths would mean a run-off in 3 weeks.


there are conflicting stories about the military standing behind Bob this time. The people are sick of the situation etc. etc.


now for my opinion, Bob and Comapany are stuffing the ballot boxes 24/7 right now or are positioning themself for a run-off in 3 weeks and suffing those ballot boxes, this guy-Bob aint gonna hand over the keys and roll out the carpet for Morgan anytime ever, he will die before he loses or start a war.

MDC is not gonna hit the streets and they dont want a Kenya situation on their hands they said eariler today,

however IMO hungry people who are pissed off are the ones who will make an attempt to do something about Bob stuffing the ballot boxs ahead of time, perhaps he was a bit slow this past election. if Bob is successful any efforts by the MDC to over throw Bob will be futile.

until Bob is dead he will be a problem.


sorry about the spelling,
I missed that class.
 
Posts: 1407 | Location: Beverly Hills Ca 90210<---finally :) | Registered: 04 November 2001Reply With Quote
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I love these guessing games. While I have no inside information, here is what I think: Bob has left the country - that is why we haven't heard from him. While everyone is denying it, Zanu-PF is negotiating with MDC to avoid war crime charges and get out with some amount of wealth. MDC is positioning for an organized transition, and when complete, I get to go hunt a trophy elephant bull!!!!


"There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 4780 | Location: Story, WY / San Carlos, Sonora, MX | Registered: 29 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by PWN375:
ABB (Anyone But Bob) will no doubt be an improvement. However, in my opinion, even though he is the best of all the bad choices available to some minority whites and most disaffected blacks; I doubt if Morgan Tsangarai is going to be the savior of Zimbabwe. First he is out of his depth intellectually and lacks the dynamic, forceful personality necessary to succeed as the leader of a rapidly declining country. Second he is a union leader, which means his core beliefs are socialist which is a failed political notion even in stable countries. And finally, he does not have the clear support of the armed forces which means his term in office could be very brief.

I have many good friends in Zimbabwe and I certianly am happy if they are finally rid of Mugabe, but believe they will continue to suffer at the hands of an incompetent new government.


PWN375

You are, of course, completely incorrect. Tsvangirai may have his weaknesses (as everyone does), but he is surrounded by intellectuals and will be an effective and progressive leader. God, can we not give the guy a chance? I have no beef with you because you are removed from the situation and obviously out of touch, but the negativity of certain indigenous Zimbabweans (mostly whites) really irks me. So, we have been whinging about the despotic regime of mugabe forever and now we'll just continue whinging? When finally someone has had the courage to stand up for us as a nation and prevail against all odds? Morgan Tsvangirai is a great man my friend, and neither you nor anyone else has any foundation for your criticism. Down your own leaders if you like but give Morgan Tsvangirai a break, okay? Let us wait and see what he can offer this crippled nation before we all jump on the band-wagon of condemnation. Whatever the final outcome of this 'process' may be, I am most proud of the people of this land on this day, beginning with Morgan Tsvangirai who is a principled and extremely brave man.

David
 
Posts: 2270 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 28 February 2007Reply With Quote
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I suppose anyone would be an improvement over Mugabe.

We wish the people of Zimbabwe all the best. I have seen the deteriotions in that country for a very longtime.

Sadly, I cannot help feeling that whatever happens, it is going to take an very long time for the country o recover, let alone get back to all its past glory.


www.accuratereloading.com
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Posts: 67037 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:


We wish the people of Zimbabwe all the best.


Thank you Saeed, and all of you. I know the people of Zimbabwe have many friends on this site and your support means a great deal to us. The support of the entire international community is much appreciated. Let's hope it all pans out okay, I'm sure an announcement is imminent.

Dave
 
Posts: 2270 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 28 February 2007Reply With Quote
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If he does lose power and its looking increasingly likely, just watch the aid agencies and western governments charge in there with bucketloads of cash and and aid. The country will be awash with cash and do gooders.... much of which will be spent in the wrong places..... but far better that than having the alternative.

The big question will be what will the new leaders do about the situation with seized land and white farmers etc? - In an ideal world, they'll hand it back and offer the white farmers free finance to come back. Personally I don't think that will happen and even if it did, I don't think that many of them would be prepared to return. Certainly the few I know here, say they wouldn't consider it...... and I don't blame them.

Ah well, it's all speculation at the moment, lets just wish all our friends well and hope that MB does step down peacefully.

In an ideal world, he'd also face a court, but I'd bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff that won't happen.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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By Bob dancing

Speaking to Tendai Biti (the MDC secretary General) yesterday, he said that the MDC have no plans to invite farmers back specifically. They will look for funding to enable the farmers to be paid some compensation and will redistribute under utilised farms that have been given to the Zanu elite.
 
Posts: 3026 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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beer congrats guys - wish you All the best wave - BTW where is the party? banana
 
Posts: 2027 | Location: Slovenia | Registered: 28 April 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
the MDC have no plans to invite farmers back specifically. They will look for funding to enable the farmers to be paid some compensation


Won't invite the farmers back... Well, they will be paid....

in Zim Dollars CRYBABY


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6834 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I believe that uncl Bob is in for the High jump after giving the MDC and the general Zimbabweans so much uphill.... think they will 2020 him
 
Posts: 605 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With Quote
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458,

You can't be serious???? Mugabe once upon a time was a hero. No one could be shortsighted enough to whack the guy. Especially in light of the apparent admissions to friends and advisors that he has lost the election. My prediction, No runoff and some form of quasi-reasonable succession. After that, who knows??? Executions and war crimes? Get Real. How will that help Zimbabwe?

Jeff
 
Posts: 2857 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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David, I find your comments regarding Morgan Tsvangirai very encouraging. I wish you and your countrymen all the best. God knows you deserve it!


"There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 4780 | Location: Story, WY / San Carlos, Sonora, MX | Registered: 29 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Lord the long suffering and patient people of Zim do deserve a break.
 
Posts: 1226 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 12 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Trade unionist? Is that like a socialist or a communist?

Looks like we will find out.

www.allafrica.com/stories/200804030118.html

Reports MT won free and clear.
 
Posts: 1948 | Registered: 16 January 2007Reply With Quote
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Police surround Zimbabwe hotel

HARARE, Zimbabwe - Security agents and paramilitary police in riot gear are surrounding a Harare hotel housing foreign journalists.

ADVERTISEMENT

A man answering the phone at the hotel says they are taking away some reporters.

The man refused to give his name but said about 30 police entered the hotel Thursday and were preparing to take away four or five journalists.

Foreign journalists have been in Zimbabwe to cover elections in which President Robert Mugabe's party lost control of parliament. He is apparently facing a runoff for the presidency.
 
Posts: 8773 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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This is a not a good sign...

Jeff
 
Posts: 2857 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080403/ap_on_re_af/zimbabwe_elections
HARARE, Zimbabwe - Security agents and paramilitary police in riot gear are surrounding a Harare hotel housing foreign journalists.


A man answering the phone at the hotel says they are taking away some reporters.

The man refused to give his name but said about 30 police entered the hotel Thursday and were preparing to take away four or five journalists.

Foreign journalists have been in Zimbabwe to cover elections in which President Robert Mugabe's party lost control of parliament. He is apparently facing a runoff for the presidency.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below


#dumptrump

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Posts: 38513 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
This is a not a good sign...

Jeff


BBC had a guy reporting live from Harare early on, even though BBC is banned from Zim. Lately they have been using their guy in S. Africa only, mentioning they are prohbited from Zim. I never heard what happened to the guy in Zim, although I imagine he just left when it became clear there would be no quick result.

Maybe someone else heard about it?

Edit: I see that they mentioned him in their latest story so I suppose he is still in Harare.
 
Posts: 8773 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Yahoo story updated:

Zimbabwe reportedly raids opposition

2 minutes ago



HARARE, Zimbabwe - A top opposition party official says police raided its offices in what he called the start of a crackdown.

Opposition party secretary-general Tendai Biti told The Associated Press that police raided and ransacked several rooms used by the party at a downtown hotel. No one was arrested.
 
Posts: 8773 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Time to send in the UN to restore peace and democracy........






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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this sounds like the worst case scenario. Frowner


If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem.
 
Posts: 1226 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 12 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Foreign journalists arrested in Harare by Susan Njanji
8 minutes ago



HARARE (AFP) - A New York Times correspondent who has been covering Zimbabwe's elections was among two foreign journalists arrested on Thursday for operating without accreditation, police and the newspaper said.


National police spokesman Wayne Bvudzijena said the pair had been picked up in a raid on the York Lodge, an upmarket guest house near the centre of the capital Harare, and were now being held in custody.

"I can only confirm that we have arrested two foreign journalists at York Lodge," Bvudzijena told AFP.

"They are being investigated for practising without accreditation. They were picked up early this evening and taken to police custody."

New York Times executive editor Bill Keller confirmed its correspondent Barry Bearak, who won a Pulitzer prize in 2002 for his reporting war-torn Afghanistan, had been detained but did not know where he was being held.

"We do not know where he is being held, or what, if any, charges have been made against him," Keller said in a statement.

"We are making every effort to ascertain his status, to assure that he is safe and being well treated, and to secure his prompt release."

There were no lights on or any sign of activity at the guest house on Thursday evening, an AFP correspondent reported. The owners did not answer the phone.

Zimbabwean authorities, which barred most foreign media from covering last Saturday's general elections, warned a week ago they would deal severely with journalists who sneaked into the country and were caught operating illegally.

However a number of news organisations, including the BBC, have been filing reports from correspondents operating under cover.

The situation is growing incresingly tense in the capital as Zimbabweans await to see if President Robert Mugabe has been defeated in his quest for a sixth term.

The opposition Movement for Democratic Change claims its leader Morgan Tsvangirai won the presidential poll outright.

But there has still been no official word on the outcome five days after the ballot, but the election commission announced overnight that the MDC had won control of parliament.

A leading US press freedom group responded to news of the arrests by calling on the Zimbabwean authorities to immediately release the foreign journalists.

"We are alarmed by reports that foreign journalists have been detained in Harare," Joel Simon, the executive director of the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists said in a statement.

"In light of the political situation, it is imperative that all journalists, foreign and domestic, be allowed to work freely. We call on authorities to immediately release all journalists currently being held," he added.

Zimbabwe has strict rules on media and no independent radio or television stations are authorised to operate.

The country's only daily newspaper, the Herald, is controlled by the government
 
Posts: 8773 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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I have grave concerns for all folks in Zimbabwe.

Mugabe is diggin a hole with no escape.


Jim "Bwana Umfundi"
NRA



 
Posts: 3014 | Location: State Of Jefferson | Registered: 27 March 2002Reply With Quote
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He is rounding up everyone that will blow the whistle on him when he declares victory on Friday.


Good Hunting,

 
Posts: 3143 | Location: Duluth, GA | Registered: 30 September 2005Reply With Quote
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From The Times
April 4, 2008
Zimbabwe: the backlash begins as paramilitaries launch raids

Catherine Philp and Jan Raath in Harare

The ebbing regime of President Mugabe began its fightback in earnest tonight, launching raids against an opposition office and foreign journalists in what many feared was the start of a campaign of violence.

Paramilitary police raided opposition offices at a hotel in central Harare, ransacking rooms as riot police moved in to arrest foreign journalists at a guest house in the capital.

Diplomats said that as many as four journalists were arrested, including a reporter from the New York Times and one Briton.


The moves, described by opposition leaders as the beginnings of a “crackdownâ€, came after a day in which the besieged octogenarian leader appeared in public for the first time since the polls in which he was defeated by his challenger, Morgan Tsvangirai.

Expectation has been mounting in the past 48 hours that, having considered concession, Mr Mugabe was planning to fight on in a run-off against his challenger.

Speculation mounted after Mr Mugabe was shown on state television today meeting African Union election observers – his first public appearance since the close of polls.

Ruling party officials subsequently announced that he would hold a critical politburo meeting today to plot his next move. State media, the ruling Zanu (PF) party and even — according to some — the President himself have conceded that he lost the race to Mr Tsvangirai, but maintain that the challenger failed to secure an absolute majority.

But the Government insisted today that Mr Mugabe was in no mood for surrender and was gearing up to fight on. Fears that the stricken leader might yet resort to violence peaked as news of the raids seeped out tonight to Harare’s diplomatic community.

Earlier in the day a senior government spokesman said that the party was preparing to invoke “energy†it had not tapped during the previous election. “Zanu (PF) is ready for a run-off, we are ready for a resulting victory,†Bright Matonga, the Deputy Information Minister, said.

“In terms of strategy, we only applied 25 per cent of our energy into this campaign,†he added, but the run-off would be different. “That is when we are going to unleash the other 75 per cent that we did not apply in the first case.†Unconfirmed reports were circulating among the diplomatic community about an alleged Mugabe military plot to extend the three-week run-up to the second round to three months, and to use the time to shut down the provisions in the election law that help to thwart poll-rigging attempts.

Key among them is the precedent of publicly posting each polling station’s results on its walls — a move that allowed the opposition Movement for Democratic Change, as well as independent observers, to collect the figures and release them in a preemptive strike against poll fixing.

But well-placed sources were adamant that any such attempts to manipulate the process would fail, even if they were unprepared to rule out some last desperate, and even violent, attempt to cling to power.

“Mugabe is a villain of the first order,†one source told The Times. “He is desperate to stay in power and the sting may be in the tail.â€

Zimbabwe’s African neighbours are the only countries with any significant influence over Mr Mugabe’s regime but they have thus far failed to intervene in any significant way. Today’s television appearance came after Mr Mugabe met an African election observer team led by Ahmad Tejah Kabbah, the former Sierra Leonean President. Mr Kabbah has also met Mr Tsvangirai, who claims victory in the election with 50.3 per cent of the vote, but who had vowed to contest a run-off if official election results award him less than 50 percent.

Rumours have swirled around Harare in the six days since the election, amid the absence of information. Zimbabweans, drained by the fatigue of economic collapse, have displayed epic patience in their wait for results. The slow drip-drip of parliamentary results has held people’s focus as they listen to radios, keeping their own running tallies of the score.

But today the information vacuum yawned open again in the absence of the expected senatorial results, the precursor to the presidential tally expected by the end of play on Friday. The delay, blamed on logistical problems, again heightened fears that results were being manipulated and that the regime was buying itself time to concoct extreme measures to shore up Mr Mugabe ahead of a run-off.

“We will stay patient because we must,†said Blessing, a street vendor in the Harare slums of Mbare. “But it is frustrating.†News of Zanu (PF)’s loss of its parliamentary majority boosted morale, but only led to further questions over the delay in the release of presidential results.

The grinding logistics of every day life under Zimbabwe’s collapsing economy have kept many distracted from their fears of worst-case scenarios.

Today, as every other day, huge queues formed outside a bakery from morning as people stood in line clutching bundles of cash, hopeful that there would be food to buy. More than 40 people were still queueing when, at lunchtime, the bread ran out.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3678392.ece
 
Posts: 3485 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 22 February 2001Reply With Quote
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original prediction of transition wasn't so bright...This is really hitting the shi-er now. The people of Zim do not deserve this. Maybe .458 was right...

Jeff
 
Posts: 2857 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
“In terms of strategy, we only applied 25 per cent of our energy into this campaign,†he added, but the run-off would be different. “That is when we are going to unleash the other 75 per cent that we did not apply in the first case.â€


Say what? I hadn't seen this yet but it's on the Zimbabwe Situation Report now.

If they're going to arrest foreign correspondents they will find that is a BAD decision.


_______________________________

 
Posts: 4168 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 June 2001Reply With Quote
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From the Associated Press:

Diplomats in Harare and at the United Nations said Mugabe was planning to declare a 90-day delay to a presidential run-off to give security forces time to clamp down. The law requires a run-off be held within 21 days of an election, but Mugabe could change that with a presidential decree, a Western diplomat in Harare said.

A diplomat at the U.N. Security Council, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said if the run-off was put off the council might have to take up the issue.
 
Posts: 8773 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Mugabe may be a hero to some, but he's the archtypical Big Man to the rest of the world. Guys like him are why nothing much in Africa works. Or ever will.
 
Posts: 11729 | Location: Florida | Registered: 25 October 2006Reply With Quote
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All of us who have friends there are of course worried. I don't why that I always think that this time it will be different??? Africa can get into your heart. History show us that she is a very cruel mistress. Frowner

The direction this is headed seems to point only in one direction and that is to Mugabe holding on by brute force and violence. of course just a tiny bit of military force from the west could change all this but any one seen as attacking the great chief who ran the white man out of Zimbabwe would suffer horrible political consequences here so that is out. I guess we will just have to sit and watch another tragedy unfold. Mad
 
Posts: 1226 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 12 July 2005Reply With Quote
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I wonder if the tangent countries can stand by and watch Zimbabwe implode to the point that starving refugees flood into RSA, Botswana, Zambia, etc. If there is unbridled and violent surpression, will the neighbors twiddle their thumbs if a few million folks cross their borders in search of food and safety....? I'd think that, most certainly, it would be in the neighbor's best interest to end this mess, and end it immediately. This stuff spreads and having a stable goverment in Zim actually surpresses discord where shared borders exist.

Would black folks from a neighboring county be accepted vice a U.N. force interested only in getting doped up and going to Denmark to perform in semi-pro porn. Viva U.N.

Are the leaders of the neighbors bright enough to realize that the result of brutal supression in Zimbabwe might well cost them tens of millions of dollars feeding and attempting to control/return/kill/ignore the hordes of folks, full of panic, trying to find any place they can simply eat, sleep and wake up alive the next day? If so, the prospect of intervention by folks of Robber Bobs heritage might well be a very soon reality... but as said above... who the hell knows?

God bless the good guys in Zimbabwe... and may the bad guys sit on the horn of a full grown Rhino.

So what is the best route for the citizens. Should they fight. If I were a citizen and at all so inclined, I'd do my best to get binding commitments, in writing, before I, again, went to war. JMHO.


JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous.
 
Posts: 7547 | Location: GA | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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I wonder if the tangent countries can stand by and watch the country implode to the point that starving refugees flood into RSA, Botswana, Zambia, etc. If there is unbridled and violent surpression, will the neighbors twiddle their thumbs if a few million folks cross their borders in search of food and safety....? I'd think that it most certainly would be in the neighbors best interest to end this mess, and end it immediately.



Estimates I have read are that as much as 30% of the population has already left, yet Mbeki still practices "quiet diplomacy." I may not be a fan of the changes in ANC leadership but I get the feeling the next South African government will be less tolerant.
 
Posts: 8773 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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I think there is a distinct possibility that if Mugabe finds a way to stay in power, the US and other countries will take the additional step of instituting total travel ban on Zimbabwe. The amount of commerce remaining between the US and Zim is negligible, so a ban would not have a great impact on any business except the Safari business. And, a ban would send a strong message to Zim and the rest of the world, perhaps the only remaining sanction available short of military action.

And Bob, being Bob, wants to go out on his own terms. And his own terms do not include losing an election.

Given the dire situation in Zim, the rest of the world cannot sit by and do nothing if Mugabe stays in office. A political statement of some sort will be seen as a requirement, and a travel ban is something easily implemented.


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Posts: 2018 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 20 May 2006Reply With Quote
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David

I stand by this comment:

I doubt if Morgan Tsangarai is going to be the savior of Zimbabwe. First he is out of his depth intellectually and lacks the dynamic, forceful personality necessary to succeed as the leader of a rapidly declining country.

The unfortunate white farmers who supported Morgan are the ones who have paid the greatest price in terms of loss and hardship. Sailing on that faultering ship has cost them everything they ever worked for and invested in. I can certainly understand human nature in failing to admit a wrong choice, but to expect him to rise to the occasion in the current climate is a dream. The guy has had over eight years to show the leadership needed to win the day and has completely failed to do so. He and his supporters are going to take their beatings and slink off again to whisper about what might have been if things had been different. Hope springs eternal I suppose, but is wasted on that failure.

Perry
 
Posts: 1144 | Location: Green Country Oklahoma | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by PWN375:
David

I stand by this comment:

First he is out of his depth intellectually and lacks the dynamic, forceful personality necessary
The guy has had over eight years to show the leadership needed to win the day and has completely failed to do so. He and his supporters are going to take their beatings and slink off again

Perry


This guy is an opposition leader in an African country. How forceful do you think one must be before one ends up dead?? Confused
 
Posts: 5886 | Location: Sydney,Australia  | Registered: 03 July 2005Reply With Quote
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This entire thread is of course, nothing but idle speculation....... but I have to say that I think Jim Mannion has a very valid point. It wouldn't suprise me in the least if the US and probably other Governments may well try to make it difficult (at least) for their citizens to visit Zimbabwe for any reason. - Please note, I'm suggesting that's right, but I am suggesting it's a real possibility. - Whether it'll be enforceable is another matter.

I believe that of more immediate concern should be what happens over the next week or two with regard to press and opposition being arrested and what happens to them afterwards........

Whatever happens, lets all hope that our friends in the country remain safe and untroubled by all this........ and if any of them feel the need to bale out for a few days, they can always find a bed, a braii and a few cold cans here in White River! beer






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Things are still quiet but bob isn't going to go quietly.

Morgans problem is he cannot think ahead. for the 2002 elections he was staying at the Miekels hotel. A friendly CIO officer provided a map of where the bugs were in his and a few other leaders rooms. Morgan did nothing. He is staying in the same suit and the room is still bugged Confused

In 1997 I arrested one Sairos Soromon Chikowhore- not exactly a common name. He got 5 years for the Rhino horn and a further 2 for the emeralds and dagga. Lo, I met him again in 2002 as one of Morgans bodyguards. He has an absolutely clean police record...except I have copies of the parks files and newspaper clips detailing the arrest, and conviction, Only the CIO could have had him a) released and b) had his record purged...I wonder who he really works for?

But because he is a vague relative, Morgan trusts him...

When I was at the University of Zim, we used to have a poster up. Politics for beginers.

You have two cows...

a) Capitalism- you sell one and buy a bull
b) Socialism- You give one to your neighbor
c) Communism- they take the cows from you and give you the milk
d) facism- They take the cows from you and sell you the milk
e) Nazism - They take the cows and shoot you
f) Trade Unionism- They take the cows from you, milk one, shoot the other and then throw the milk away.
 
Posts: 3026 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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