quote:

Originally posted by emron:
Gents, I saw what I saw, given my vision and experience.
no one has talked about the difficulty of stalking up to a sitting buff in close cover with drioed leavesand sticks aplenty on the ground. i just dont believe this is possible given the number of dried leaves/stiocks op n the gound SEEN ON CAMERA.
Sorry, have been doing this stuff for 26 years, just doesnt happen with rubber booted guides and cameramen alongside while i try to 'sneak in " to a buff.
i dont buy it.
Sorry

Emron, the length of your hunting proves nothing here! I personally know hunters who have been hunting sixty years or more, who couldn't sneak up on a deaf and blind Jersey milk cow over open ground! That doesn't mean the spear guy can't stalk that buffalo close enough to get within spear throwing distance.

The camera man stayed back with the long lens, and the close-ups were from the tiny Hero camera attached to the spear. I simply disagree that this could not be done leaves or no!

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

It certainly did not appear doped and there's no ruling out it hadn't already "sprung a leak" from a different source.

We have seen similar scenes many times before where the buffalo charged rather than ran.

Fujotupu, I simply don't believe the buffalo was anything more than unaware of the spearman's approach, and sleepy till that spear hit him from where he was still unaware!

As I said earlier this is not my cup of tea, but I simply fail to see anything that makes me doubt the validity of that film.

....................................................................

Getting close to a buffalo is fairly easy if conditions are right. I have done this recently and took two AR members into a bachelor herd of sleeping bulls.

I did notice on the video that the buffalo's vision was obscured on the approach which is all important.

Well done on the hunter and I think he was fairly lucky the buff did not charge him. However he had a PH covering him which must have been comforting.

Mac:

To each his own I suppose, however I don't buy it.

There are two distinct differing types of terrain in the clip: one from the rear camera looking through a tangle of dry brush (the spear-man always in the same place) and the second being recorded by the spear cam that shows a lot of green and no brush while advancing which lends to being suspicious; in fact it is pretty open terrain.

Granted that from the spear camera angle the buffalo's vision is impaired but there's no tree that will impair its hearing, which is just as acute.

Rare are the bulls (lone ones especially) that will allow themselves to be caught out in the cold as this one and coincidence just has it that this guy gets his buffalo on this particular filmed hunt...with a pointed stick.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Mac:

To each his own I suppose, however I don't buy it.

There are two distinct differing types of terrain in the clip: one from the rear camera looking through a tangle of dry brush (the spear-man always in the same place) and the second being recorded by the spear cam that shows a lot of green and no brush while advancing which lends to being suspicious; in fact it is pretty open terrain.

Granted that from the spear camera angle the buffalo's vision is impaired but there's no tree that will impair its hearing, which is just as acute.

Rare are the bulls (lone ones especially) that will allow themselves to be caught out in the cold as this one and coincidence just has it that this guy gets his buffalo on this particular filmed hunt...with a pointed stick.

Will tend to agree here, however it is plausible.

The spearman seems to enjoy the rush too much to fake it. There is a simple and artless enthusiasm which is unmistakeable. So I vote real deal.

Plus, our Aussie brother has actually hunted with him.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
but there's no tree that will impair its hearing, which is just as acute.

Some people have an innate ability to walk through the bush absolutely silently,
almost regardless of what is underfoot.

OK boys,

Here you go! Tim Wells' latest video clip on YouTube. I wonder if this was before or after the Buff with a Spear?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMBeN4Kr4LE

.................................................................

....................

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Mac:

To each his own I suppose, however I don't buy it.

There are two distinct differing types of terrain in the clip: one from the rear camera looking through a tangle of dry brush (the spear-man always in the same place) and the second being recorded by the spear cam that shows a lot of green and no brush while advancing which lends to being suspicious; in fact it is pretty open terrain.

Granted that from the spear camera angle the buffalo's vision is impaired but there's no tree that will impair its hearing, which is just as acute.

Rare are the bulls (lone ones especially) that will allow themselves to be caught out in the cold as this one and coincidence just has it that this guy gets his buffalo on this particular filmed hunt...with a pointed stick.

You could have 4 different vegetation types within 100yds, especially close to a waterway. I can see at least three in those clips. Whats more you can see the open close in the background, from the main cameras view.

This scenario with the impaired vision is exactly what we found worked for us in Australia. With the Asiatic buffalo at least - it is practically the only way to get a good spear shot into them. We only found and stalked two such sleeping bulls in 14 full days of hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
The spearman seems to enjoy the rush too much to fake it. There is a simple and artless enthusiasm which is unmistakeable. So I vote real deal.

The audio of Tim is what tells me it was 100% real... unless they faked the audio too.

Matt,

Did you watch the Tim Wells video I just posted? Real? Bwahahahah!

Well, it WAS entertaining!

Anybody that can shoot doves out of the air with a compound bow can kill a buffalo with a spear if he sets his mind to it and practices and trains for it. Not my cup of tea, but I don't doubt it.

So, did Tim spear that sasquatch or what? I hear they are hard to kill.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Matt,

Did you watch the Tim Wells video I just posted? Real? Bwahahahah!

Well, it WAS entertaining!

NO - I hadnt... I didnt say that he couldnt have faked it.... just that I dont think he did.

This is just a prelude to his next stunt.

Spearing BigFoot As He Attacked Me

quote:

Originally posted by maxenergy:
why is it that you seem so hostile towards those who hunt africa? "unskilled recreational hunters" seems to roll off of your tongue regularly.

And those on the AR-Africanforum that often say hunting with - spear,arrow or anything less than a largebore is a 'stunt',
are not being judgemental & hostile toward people who hunt Africa?

In regards to "unskilled recreational hunters"..are you saying that we should not believe PH-MS when he says that his clients are poor hopeless shots?
Are you saying we should not believe AR members when they are blatantly honest and say that they are not confident that they could utilise their SxS
well enough to stop a charge?

Clients who can reliably shoot anywhere near as good as their PH are quite the rare exception....the number of relatively unskilled clients far outweigh them.
But as I've said before, if one can afford a Bigbore and a DG hunt, no PH will reject you, no matter how poor one is at shooting the Bigbore or hunting DG.
Since most people are just holiday hunters to Africa, it is unreasonable to expect any high level of consistent proficiency from them. Accordingly, PHs are paid
to cater to every whim and weakness of the recreational hunter. PH is there to help his client safely enjoy his holiday , not make him into a PH.

My earlier comments on the Tim Wells cape buff spear-hunt, are positive and not at all hostile.

I would prefer to see someone who can proficiently spear,arrow [or shoot] a Buff with a medium bore [be it 7mm or .375],
than someone who can't shoot his bigbore for shit- creating havoc for the hunting party.

Hey Trax, If you have a group of tribesmen with spears then that is far different than one man with a spear and even when there are multiple animals. When the Masai used to kill lions there was always a large group of them and the cats really never had much of a chance. I agree with Matt Graham that Tim Wells is outstanding with a bow in particular and he has a lot of experience with the spear. That cape buff he speared was probably sleeping allowing him to approach so closely.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Hey Trax, If you have a group of tribesmen with spears then that is far different than one man with a spear and even when there are multiple animals.
When the Masai used to kill lions there was always a large group of them and the cats really never had much of a chance.

376,

You make it sound like the Masai[with spears] had an easy time when against a lion.
Look at this group of recreational hunters & PH armed with DG rifles ..against one wounded lion.

appears they struggled against one lion, the fact that the lion had the chance to reach them, then pass through them and then turn around to come
back through them yet again, pretty much says it all.
When the lion comes charging in, the hunters all rush and group together, even uselessly standing behind one another.
When the lion pass through them and turn around to come me back through,we see a party member in the background, trip over backwards.

After all that, I don't know what they were proudly congratulating themselves on, The whole group was atrocious, and IMO,don't deserve to be hunting lion.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Hey Trax, If you have a group of tribesmen with spears then that is far different than one man with a spear and even when there are multiple animals.
When the Masai used to kill lions there was always a large group of them and the cats really never had much of a chance.

376,

You make it sound like the Masai[with spears] had an easy time when against a lion.
Look at this group of recreational hunters & PH armed with DG rifles ..against one wounded lion.

appears they struggled against the lion, the fact that the lion had the chance to reach them,then pass through them, then turn around to come
back through them yet again, pretty much says it all.
I don't know what they were proudly congratulating themselves on, The whole group was atrocious, and IMO,should not to be hunting lion.

I cant believe you used that video to illustrate a point. That group was NOT hunting lion!!! That was a bunch of turkeys killing a raised lion in a pen ...

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I cant believe you used that video to illustrate a point. That group was NOT hunting lion!!! That was a bunch of turkeys killing a raised lion in a pen ...

Turkeys , yes I agree with that.
PHs dont reject Turkeys with guns and enough money for a DG hunt, no matter how hopeless they are.
and regardless of whether it is a canned hunt or free range, a Turkeys money is still welcomed & accepted.
...Why is that?

..and People who shoot their PH or tracker,[or put powder burns on the side of the PHs shirt]
or repeatedly wave their loaded gun across a PHs back,... are IMO no less a Turkey.
Yet there are people[including PHs] who have said that they would still hunt with those offenders.
...Why is that?

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Turkeys , yes I agree with that.
PHs dont reject Turkeys with guns and enough money for a DG hunt, no matter how hopeless they are.
and regardless of whether it is a canned hunt or free range, a Turkeys money is still welcomed & accepted.
...Why is that?

That is incorrect. I do not take every person hunting who knocks on my door with a handful of dollars... no sir.

These people in the video are all turkeys because they all collectively ended up in that position.... canned, videotaped and distributed via the www.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

..and People who shoot their PH or tracker,[or put powder burns on the side of the PHs shirt]
or repeatedly wave their loaded gun across a PHs back,... are IMO no less a Turkey.
Yet there are people[including PHs] who have said that they would still hunt with those offenders.
...Why is that?

Because the real client-PH relationship is not simply a financial transaction. One day you may understand that.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Turkeys , yes I agree with that.
PHs dont reject Turkeys with guns and enough money for a DG hunt, no matter how hopeless they are.
and regardless of whether it is a canned hunt or free range, a Turkeys money is still welcomed & accepted.
...Why is that?

That is incorrect. I do not take every person hunting who knocks on my door with a handful of dollars... no sir.

These people in the video are all turkeys because they all collectively ended up in that position.... canned, videotaped and distributed via the www.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

..and People who shoot their PH or tracker,[or put powder burns on the side of the PHs shirt]
or repeatedly wave their loaded gun across a PHs back,... are IMO no less a Turkey.
Yet there are people[including PHs] who have said that they would still hunt with those offenders.
...Why is that?

Because the real client-PH relationship is not simply a financial transaction. One day you may understand that.

Exactly. Simply stated but profoundly accurate!

Proof that simply reading about Bell and Selby really doesn't qualify one to comment with authority on the subject of safari, be it Africa, Australia, or anywhere else!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

..and People who shoot their PH or tracker,[or put powder burns on the side of the PHs shirt]
or repeatedly wave their loaded gun across a PHs back,... are IMO no less a Turkey.
Yet there are people[including PHs] who have said that they would still hunt with those offenders.
...Why is that?

Because the real client-PH relationship is not simply a financial transaction. One day you may understand that.

If my best friend was not the best wing-man or co-pilot to have, I would tell him and say I prefer someone else,
and I sincerely hope he would do the same with me and make the intelligent decision , not just the popular appeasing one.
I also try not to have friends that blow hot wind up my ass and make excuses for me.
I guess in the DG hunting world and trying to earn an income through it, such principles don't matter so much.
As I've already stated, PH are there to cater to just about every whim and weakness of the recreational hunter.
There would not be much of a hunting industry if they didn't.

If someone put a bullet in me while hunting, I would never hunt with them again, despite whether they were my friend or not.
I gather you need to compromise & tolerate such grossly irresponsible mishaps from people for the sake of earning an income,
I can understand that....I believe thats partly what PHs diplomatically mean by the term 'being flexible and understanding'
with their paying clients.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Proof that simply reading about Bell and Selby really doesn't qualify one to comment with authority on the subject of safari, be it Africa, Australia, or anywhere else!

and what does shooting stationary non-threatening paperTigers, to prove how fast you are with a SxS,.. qualify one to do?
IMO, it has no zero application to the unpredictability and pressure of actual DG hunting.
Yet you posted in the African hunting forum.....???...WTF for??

To bad that you don't like the fact that people will gain more wisdom from Bell and Selby than they
ever will from you.
The honest depth of knowledge and experience they had to share, you or I would never gain in 5 or even 10 lifetimes.
Ever thought about humbling yourself just a bit?

Saeed does not have problem humbling himself to such accomplished and respected greats, and he has shot more DG than
many AR member recreational hunters, all put together.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

..and People who shoot their PH or tracker,[or put powder burns on the side of the PHs shirt]
or repeatedly wave their loaded gun across a PHs back,... are IMO no less a Turkey.
Yet there are people[including PHs] who have said that they would still hunt with those offenders.
...Why is that?

Because the real client-PH relationship is not simply a financial transaction. One day you may understand that.

If my best friend was not the best wing-man or co-pilot to have, I would tell him and say I prefer someone else,
and I sincerely hope he would do the same with me and make the intelligent decision , not just the popular appeasing one.
I also try not to have friends that blow hot wind up my ass and make excuses for me.
I guess in the DG hunting world and trying to earn an income through it, such principles don't matter so much.
As I've already stated, PH are there to cater to just about every whim and weakness of the recreational hunter.
There would not be much of a hunting industry if they didn't.

If someone put a bullet in me while hunting, I would never hunt with them again, despite whether they were my friend or not.
I gather you need to compromise & tolerate such grossly irresponsible mishaps from people for the sake of earning an income,
I can understand that....I believe thats partly what PHs diplomatically mean by the term 'being flexible and understanding'
with their paying clients.

Like I said - one day you might understand... at the moment you are just guessing.

I well understand that people can let the influence of finanical gain, illogical sentimentality or some imaginary bond,
conveniently mask the truth and get in the way of wiser more sensible judgement.

We have seen it before with hunting f**k-Ups by Celebrity hunters and those who cannot wait to pander to them and make excuses
for them which they otherwise would not offer to another more ordinary profile person.

There are also PHs who have tolerated constant bad/dangerous gun handling on the same Safari and following safari with the same client,
resulting in multiple unintended discharges. - Despite the threat it posed to the other members of the hunting party, It was continually
tolerated till an unintended discharge resulted in the truck,tracker [and PH being seriously injured], because of the well known stupidity
of the client.....friend or not, such clients should not be out in the field with a gun posing a serious threat to people and property.
Before the emergence of internet Hunting forums and Youtube, a lot of that stuff was just brushed under the carpet to avoid bad PR.
Such shit is hard to hide or deny these days, so instead people make all sorts of contorted excuses to justify why they tolerate it.
So spare me the condescending PH agenda inspired crapola of...'one day Ill understand'...its pathetic to say the least.

Trax,
May I ask why you even post on the African forum? It appears from your sower negative remarks about those that enjoy everything about the subject that you really hate it.
Why don't you get over the fact that all those old time guys are gone and just get on with life.
I enjoy their story's as much as the next man BUT brother you take it a major step further.

The concept that PH's and guides endemically allow poor firearm handling practice to go unchecked - in the pursuit of money - is just laughable. He obviously has no such experience at all.

keep digging, trax.

the hole you are creating for yourself is getting ever deeper.

you again show complete animosity for those with experiences you do not share with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Proof that simply reading about Bell and Selby really doesn't qualify one to comment with authority on the subject of safari, be it Africa, Australia, or anywhere else!

and what does shooting stationary non-threatening paperTigers, to prove how fast you are with a SxS,.. qualify one to do?
IMO, it has no zero application to the unpredictability and pressure of actual DG hunting.
Yet you posted in the African hunting forum.....???...WTF for??

To bad that you don't like the fact that people will gain more wisdom from Bell and Selby than they
ever will from you.
The honest depth of knowledge and experience they had to share, you or I would never gain in 5 or even 10 lifetimes.
Ever thought about humbling yourself just a bit?

Saeed does not have problem humbling himself to such accomplished and respected greats, and he has shot more DG than
many AR member recreational hunters, all put together.

Trax, you've now made mention of that video of mine more times than I can count. Interesting that my simple posting of a couple of guys, being myself and friend, just having a bit of fun at the range shooting big bore rifles offended you so. But then, it doesn't take much to offend you. However, if your intent is to insinuate that my level of experience with dangerous game, and further that my experience with dangerous game and big bore double rifles can be summed by a simple video produced one afternoon at the range, you are grossly mistaken; as usual. That video was not intended to "prove" anything other than the fact that a double rifle can be faster than most who are unfamiliar with them might think and I stated as much in the opening comments. Furthermore, I have no need to prove ANYTHING to a simple little troll like yourself.

On the one hand, you chastise "recreational" hunters for not being proficient with their weapons, then turn around and chastise for taking time on the range, "shooting paper tigers" as you put it, to actually be proficient with big bore rifles. Which is it pal? Like all of your other rambling and condescending rants here in the African Hunting forum, your comments are irrelevant and display a complete lack of grasping the concepts on which you pontificate.

A major point you seem to miss is that simply reading about Bell, Selby, and the other greats from the past, doesn't give you any special insight into the experience of hunting Africa. New flash! Just about ALL of us here have read the very same books you have on the old hunters! The difference being that you've only read about safari while we have experienced safari! Some more than others obviously, but in your case, you've never smelled the smoke of a mopani fire, never awaken in the pre-dawn darkness of a tented camp to the distant sound of a lion's roar! Likely, you never will.

Trax, you really need to get over yourself and this blatant hatred and jealousy towards the guys who have been on, and continue to go on safari. Realize, that although a few were born into the money it takes to do these trips, most are similar to myself. They have been hunting for 30 or 40 + years. They have gained a great deal of experience with firearms and are quite capable of both safely handling guns and making the shot in the field. At some point, hunting Africa became a dream to aspire to. For me, it occurred very early in life. I was captivated by those books on Africana written by Bell and the like when I was 10 years old, or younger, but I wasn't able to live out my dreams of safari until I was 44 years old. You see Trax, a major difference between us is that you're still captivated by the books and haven't done anything to advance beyond the fantasy of being Bell's tent boy. The rest of us identified what we wanted to do when we grew up, identified a vocation that would likely pay sufficient financial dividends to pursue our desires, became educated, some formally, others through job experience, then worked, saved, and invested for decades until in a position to do something other than simply READ about other's life experiences!

Sure, there are the very rare and few who pick up a gun for the first time in middle age and decide that an African DG hunt is the place to jump into the sport. That is the exception, not the rule. Anyone who has hunted more than a couple of times, at some point, has and will again, make a poor shot on an animal. Most of the time, we will be able to sort it out without the PH's help. Personally, in addition to other overseas hunts (some including DG as well), I've now been on 8 safaris. I leave on Number 9 in 29 days where I hope to take my 5th elephant (second bull) and third leopard. Seven of those previous safaris to Africa have included DG. To date, I've yet to hear a PH's rifle be fired. However, should he deem it necessary to do so, I'll not be offended as I just don't have an ego about it in the least bit. What I do know is that when I show up in camp, I'll be as proficient as I can possibly be, but still capable of making a mistake. That sir, is a product of time at the range, behind the trigger, "shooting paper tigers" as you say!

Get over it man. Forget about being Bell's appie. It isn't going to happen pal. The books are great, but they are no substitute for real experience. In short ... GET A LIFE!!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Get over it man. Forget about being Bell's appie. It isn't going to happen pal.

Trax,

Considering your wide and varied opinions on matters regarding African gun safety, I would ask you to show leadership in this cause by clicking over to the Stu Taylor Andrew Baldry lion print benefit thread. There you can make a real contribution to one who was injured in the bush.

Jeff

Todd
You have deep insight my friend! This thread has been a hoot to say the least.

quote:

The audio of Tim is what tells me it was 100% real... unless they faked the audio too.

The audio of the "sasquatch video" tells me it was 100% real...also!!

quote:

Originally posted by emron:

quote:

The audio of Tim is what tells me it was 100% real... unless they faked the audio too.

The audio of the "sasquatch video" tells me it was 100% real...also!!

quite the investigator arent you?

This thread has been funny and as a continuation I recommend people watch the documentary Swastika.

I saw it on amazon prime a few hours back and nearly feel off the sofa (good thing I was lying down).

Swastika is a controversial documentary of Adolf Hitler that shows the private side of Hitler mainly thru Eva Bruan home movies, most of which are in color.

So what does this have to do with a thread of spearing a cape buffalo one may ask?

In Eva Bruan's personal home movies there is footage of Hitler taking to one of his aides of Herman Goering who is late/missing in action cause he is out boar hunting. Herman Goering was the official hunt master of the third reich. Hitler who is definitely not into blood sports like hunting being a vegetarian says in a mocking tone what is the sport in shooting a boar - Goering should go hunt with a spear.

Here is a link to the movie
http://www.amazon.com/Swastika...-3&keywords=swastika

Enjoy,

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by emron:

quote:

The audio of Tim is what tells me it was 100% real... unless they faked the audio too.

The audio of the "sasquatch video" tells me it was 100% real...also!!

By "audio" you mean the high pitch effeminate squealing in the background?

One hears a lot of that with the canned lion hunts as well.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

By "audio" you mean the high pitch effeminate squealing in the background?

One hears a lot of that with the canned lion hunts as well.

Excited squeeling yes. Effeminant is not the term I would use in relation to Tim.... but he is quite excitable.

quote:

quite the investigator arent you?

Indeed!
I hate getting personal on the internet, but when someone is clearly pulling a STUNT and makes a living off chasing sasquatches, I have to call it not kosher.
All associated hangers-on and sellers of buffalo hunts, where ever (not that the feral cattle of australia are the same as African Cape Buffalo, which have been subjected to depradation by lion for eons) are hereby put on notice that we know BS when we see it

quote:

Originally posted by emron:

quote:

quite the investigator arent you?

Indeed!
I hate getting personal on the internet, but when someone is clearly pulling a STUNT and makes a living off chasing sasquatches, I have to call it not kosher.
All associated hangers-on and sellers of buffalo hunts, where ever (not that the feral cattle of australia are the same as African Cape Buffalo, which have been subjected to depradation by lion for eons) are hereby put on notice that we know BS when we see it

Wow - where did feral cattle come into it?

I have some experience in these matters. Who are you? Some random pseudonym on the internet putting shit on me. You can call it 'not kosher' but you dont have a single shred of evidence to back it up!!