Just arrived from SOAZ.

Sent: 25 March 2009 11:56 AM
Subject: Transporation of firearms and ammunition
Importance: High
Sensitivity: Personal

Dear all,

After a long discussion involving SAA, various Airport Managers , security companies yesterday, the following has been agreed upon for the transportation of firearms and ammunition .

There is a new Airports Act that requires all luggage (domestic and international)to be screened. Here various airports are finding ammunition in checked bags that is not packed correctly. Therefore the passengers are being called back to unlock bags, causing delays to the departure of the aircraft and disgruntled passengers. The ammunition is taken out and sent out to the next destination in a plastic bag. This causes problems as passengers check their bags to the final destination on departure from say Port Elizabeth and passengers find themselves with ammunition and no where to put it, when they arrive in Johannesburg.

With immediate effect all firearms must be packed and transported in an approved firearm case.

(There are still people arriving and trying to depart with firearms in their checked luggage)

Ammunition must be packed in a lockable box with key and placed in the checked luggage.


Ammo found in checked luggage in a manufacturers box or just thrown in will be taken out and put into a plastic bag and sent to the next destination. It is then the responsibility of the passenger to get the ammo home, which he can't do if his luggage has been checked through to his home base.

There are two options here, either the passenger adheres to having the ammo put into a locked box. OR

They check bags to their departure airport collect bags and firearms, ammo in the plastic bag and then goes and rechecks onto the flight home.

I will keep you up updated on the changes to the Airlink flights and new departure procedures.

Many thanks

Kind regards

Anne Gaines-Burrill

Air 2000 (Pty) Ltd

Hunters Support Service

-----Original Message-----
> From: Danie Barnardt [mailto:DanieBarnardt@flysaa.com]
> Sent: 25 March 2009 02:16 PM
> To: Air 2000
> Subject: RE: Firearms and ammo
> Sensitivity: Personal
>
>
> I have no idea where the Zim issue suddenly comes from. Since about 2004
> there has been (and still is) an embargo from the EU (inclusive to the
> UK)for the transportation of any type of firearms from any EU member
> state to Zimbabwe. This unfortunately includes hunters. SAA however
> still fly hunters and their firearms on the provision that such
> passenger is not through checked to Zimbabwe from the EU or London to
> Zimbabwe. Such passengers are therefore required to terminate their
> journey in SA, clear immigration and customs and then check-in for
> flights to Zimbabwe as originating passengers. At the time and on a
> couple of subsequent occasions SAA have communicated this to industry
> and to date (except for now on) we have never had any issues on this.
> (We are sitting with a similar enquiry from a travel agency in the USA
> stating that Swiss advised them SAA doesn't fly firearms to Zimbabwe.)
>
> In my opinion, I think it is confusion within Swiss Airlines, as
> Switzerland only formally became part of the EU in 2007 or 2008 (not
> sure) and have not previously been restricted to this rule.
>
> To conclude, NO there is no truth to the statement that SAA does not fly
> firearms to Zimbabwe.
>
> Regards
>
> Danie Barnardt (AVSEC P.M)
> South African Airways
> Manager Aviation Security (Compliance & Quality Control)
> Tel: +2711 978 3479 or +2711 978 6522
> Fax: +2711 978 5933
> Cell: +2783 286 8250
> SITA: JNBNZSA

Is this for internal (domestic flights in SAA) or for connecting flights outside of SAA?

I love the Plastic Bag idea

So you have to place ammo in a Lockable box….with the key? Kind of defeats the purpose of a lock box if you have to leave it unlocked? I expect if you were to lock it in your checked bag then they will have to cut it open to inspect correct? They could they ship it, since the cut case could no longer be locked?

This is getting confusing?

I will assume that this policy will not be required when leaving the US, but could be a problem on the return flight?

What is this crap about ammo being in a locked box?

This is NOT in accordance with IATA (International Airline Transport Association) regulations nor is it specified in any airline policy I have ever read. Is this a "new" policy, and if so is it in writing and where can it be found? And why is this being imposed on sport hunters?

Airline transportation of fixed ammunition is not new and transport of fixed small arms ammunition for military or law enforcement or commercial establishments does not, of course, require "locked" containers, as that would be ridiculous when transporting large lots of ammunition.

I think a detailed explanation with reference citations is in order. Otherwise this is just FUD.

You're talking about just one set of legislation that refers to the carriage of dangerous goods on commercial aircraft. There's considerably more than one set.

This isn't legislation, it's individual airline regulation, which they're quite entitled to introduce and enforce if they so wish....... ammo in locked boxes, often locked metal boxes is a common regulation with many airlines nowadays. - Admittedly, it's silly at best and dangerous at worst, but if they want to make that regulation, they're quite entitled to do so.

FWIW the fifth para of this article http://www.shakariconnection.c...-and-air-travel.html gives examples of just some of the legislative bodies that have 'pissed in the soup' (to coin a phrase from John Steinbeck) with regard to dangerous goods on commercial aircraft.

Well I always said hunting in Africa is too much fun to hunt here at home in the west, but it appears South Africa is going to make it such a pain to travel there with firearms and ammo - well they can fuck off. I have this year booked there but it may be the last. It may be time for US hunters and other non-africian hunters to just stay home for a few years.

Sorry Steve, but I don't see anything in your paragraph 5 that would require sport ammunition to be transported in a locked metal box. You are citing U.S. laws, not international laws relating to aircraft passage.

I agree that the dummies running the airlines can set whatever policies they like for their individual airlines. However, if they are subscribers to international airline agreements, they could well be in violation of those agreements. IATA and like agreements were designed to facilitate international airline travel and thereby prevent individual airline policy from causing interruption of passengers in transit.

IATA is an international trade body, created over 60 years ago by the airlines and today represents some 230 airlines comprising 93% of scheduled international air traffic.

I don't claim expertise in international airline agreements, but I do know that in the 1990s IATA was THE proponent body and I have always adhered to their guidance. None of IATA regs had changed in regards to sport ammunition through 2005, the last year I actually transported ammunition. Again, if nobody can show me the documentation, and the letters above are individual, not governmental nor airline regulations, then I must say this is all FUD!

OK ... do I have this correct? For travel on SAA I must place my ammo (in boxes designed for the ammo [to comply with US law]) in a locked metal box to which the key has been attached. The box must then be placed inside checked luggage.

Do I have it right?

Thanks!

A small hard black plastic lockable (but unlocked) ammo carrier which can hold 5 boxes of 458 or 375 in their factory boxes and a small digital weight scale has been working well of late.
The main thing to remember on Zim is to not have that listed as your final destination if you are flying thru Britain/EU with firearms or ammo.

Thanks, Steve/shakari, for the AIR 2000 news-brief and the letter fromm SAA. Air 2000 has to keep up with all the nutty regulations that come from SA, Zim, and SAA--must be a hell of a frustrating job.

Since 2002, I have, upon Terry B.'s written advice, always put my ammo in either a locked metal box or a plastic box. I have never locked it, and have kept the key with me. It is always open to inspection by the airlines and I have never had a problem. It makes sense as it keeps it all organized and in one place. I plan on continuing to do that. Why would you lock it and leave the key attached to it or taped to it, when you can just simply leave it unlocked? Please!

LionHunter

You didn't read my post correctly. The para of the article is just to give you an idea of just some of the (US in this case) Governmental bodies that have a say in the carriage of dangerous goods on commercial aircraft. IATA are just one of them. As the article says, the original legislation is the Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act . This is still in force but there are lots of other legislation (esp in the US) as well. The article I directed you to is about BP etc, but the info on governing bodies and various legislation is pertinent to both cases.

As I said, the rule for ammo in a separate box etc is an airline rule and not a legal requirement. This particular requirement is very common with most airlines nowadays.

The best advice for anyone planning to travel with firearms and ammo is to check with the airline(s) concerned and get their up to date requirements IN WRITING and comply with them AND take those written requirements with you when you travel.

The second best thing travellers can do is check www.shakariconnection.com regularly.

Mike,

SAA are a bit confusing on the matter, I'd advise you to contact them, get their requirements in writing, comply with that and take a copy of the requirements with you when you travel.

Steve,

I think the safest way if travelling through the UK with a final desination of Zim is to have TWO separate sets of tickets. One set that will take you to RSA (or wherever) via the UK and another SEPARATE set of tickes from RSA to Zim etc.

[QUOTE]
The best advice for anyone planning to travel with firearms and ammo is to check with the airline(s) concerned and get their up to date requirements IN WRITING and comply with them AND take those written requirements with you when you travel.

Steve,

This is exactly what I've done since the early '90s and always recommend same to my clients. Since ticketing personnel cannot be counted upon to actually know their own airlines rules, the best advice is to politely ask to speak with a Supervisor and if he/she is incorrect then you must politely provide them with a copy of their airlines policy you have downloaded from the airline website.

Almost all airlines have their baggage rules, including carriage of dangerous goods, which includes firearms and ammunition, posted on their websites. Not always easy to find but it is usually there. If it cannot be found you must actually phone the airlines home office and ask for a fax or email of the policy. A few years ago I had quite an exchange with the Virgin Air U.S. office before getting their policy emailed to me.

I have only had to ask for a Supervisor once, and she knew the policy.

Mate,

You can be pretty sure no check in staff, whether on the counter, supervisor or duty manager will know the regulations, requirements and laws relating to the Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act, let alone the plethora of other legislation etc......... esp in the USA where there are soooo many fingers in the pie.

There are only two ways of being 100% sure of your ground. One is to get hold of the entire load and balance manuals and everything appertaining to them for the airline's fleet..... and there's more chance of pigs flying that you even getting a look at those.

The other and only realistic way is to get the airline to confirm their requirements in writing when you make your booking and then comply with those requirements and take a copy of that document with you when you travel. Then, when there is a dispute, you just whip out the document and wave it under their noses.

If you visit www.shakariconnection.com you can access the relevent info for every airline that services any of the 12 or 14 African countries the site covers........ All you have to do is click on icon that says 'Hunting in whatever country' and then follow your nose from there.

You'll also find all the relevent (downloadable) firearm import/export documentation etc.