With the amount of emphasis we put on free floating the barrel for all its good virtues, and then coached by the pH/ and in print media to grab the sticks and barrel for a good hold. what ever happened to all the free floating

Is the advice to grab the barrel or the stock?

Just put the back of your hand on the top of the crossed sticks. Or better yet find a branch. Or better yet tell ;em to put the sticks where the sun don't shine.

SG, the advise was to rest the rifle on the sticks close to or just forward of the front stud then grab the sticks between the thumb ring finger and pinky, with index and middle on top of the barrel.

Kinda sounds like aiming might get difficult, too?

Just out of curiousity, where the grass or brush is low enough, why not skip the sticks and do a kneeling or even sitting?

If you practice off of the sticks and are getting good groups, who cares about float, free float, root beer float. That's why practice is so important, then you know exactly what's happening before you take to the field.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Some guns, if recoiling off of hard surfaces, will not shoot to the same point of aim as off of a softer medium (i.e., shooting sticks vs. a hand). I cringe everytime I see one of those cookie cutter T.V. shows where folks rest their .3000 Super Magnum barrel on the window sill of a shooting box.

Personally, I don't want any part of my rifle resting on anything that won't give some. While I wouldn't think that a finger (lightly)around the top of a barrel would make much difference, I'll bet a dollar to a donut that if you shoot for a group resting the forend on your hand at 200 yards, then place a 2x4 under your forend with no "buffer", the bullets will be substantially higher for the latter group.

Any one want to prove me wrong with their rifle? I don't mind being proven wrong.

I think a fully bedded rifle would be worse than a floated one, btw.

Right or wrong, such has been my experience.

if you put pressure on a free floating barrel!!! the reason we free float them and spend lots of money with gun smiths is to get the best out of them. why would you want to put pressure on something you worked howrd to remove pressure from?

I hold the forearm and rest the back of my hand in the intersection of the shooting sticks.

My big bore rifles,with their barrel lugs are as accurate as anything at least up to 100yds.I was told by my gunsmith, that a well done hand made,big bore stock, did not need a barrel lug.The lott I am having Martini and Hagn build,will not have a barrel lug.There should not be any problem with putting your hand on the barrel and stock when firing.I would be more concerned with the guard screws not being glued with loctite.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
My big bore rifles,with their barrel lugs are as accurate as anything at least up to 100yds.I was told by my gunsmith, that a well done hand made,big bore stock, did not need a barrel lug.The lott I am having Martini and Hagn build,will not have a barrel lug.There should not be any problem with putting your hand on the barrel and stock when firing.I would be more concerned with the guard screws not being glued with loctite.

Huh?

Judge, what do you expect, given the source? the first part about his big bore rifles being accurate WITH LUGS is in direct contradiction to the second part about his next rifle being made without them. what else would you expect from this gentlemen?

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
if you put pressure on a free floating barrel!!! the reason we free float them and spend lots of money with gun smiths is to get the best out of them. why would you want to put pressure on something you worked howrd to remove pressure from?

Perhaps you might want to try sand paper next time. It floats a barrel with the best of gunsmiths. However this method does get spendy when you put up a dollar to see if the barrel floats. Of course you will need the action beded if it isn't already.

Brett

PS. My experience with sand paper is that it's much more economical than gunsmiths. Your experience may vary if you buy a whole pallet of sand paper.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
My big bore rifles,with their barrel lugs are as accurate as anything at least up to 100yds.I was told by my gunsmith, that a well done hand made,big bore stock, did not need a barrel lug.The lott I am having Martini and Hagn build,will not have a barrel lug.There should not be any problem with putting your hand on the barrel and stock when firing.I would be more concerned with the guard screws not being glued with loctite.

Huh?

I didn't mean that the guard screws would loosten if you put your hand around the stock and barrel when firing.Guard screws on big bores will loosten ANY time you fire,causing accuracy issues,unless they are glued with loctite.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Judge, what do you expect, given the source? the first part about his big bore rifles being accurate WITH LUGS is in direct contradiction to the second part about his next rifle being made without them. what else would you expect from this gentlemen?

I didn't ask Ralph Martini to build my rifle without the forearm lug.I think he builds them this way.

I once thought that the accuracy issues I was having were caused by the forearm barrel lug or because the barrel was not free floating.I then found that this was not so and that the loostening guard screws and sight screws along with a moving 100 and 200 yd leaf sight were causing the issues.I solved the issues bu using loctite and really tightening the screws and by glueing the express leaf sight.It took me many trips to the range to figure this out.My rifles are now PREPARED to shoot.

We have built rifles for many of the larger bores, and have always built them with a free floating barrel.

We bed the action and the shanks of the barrel, leaving the rest of it free floating.

All these rifles shot extremely accurately.

In fact, the only time we had problems making factory rifles shoot well was when the barrel is NOT free floating.

In every instance, once we have free floated the barrel, the rifle shot much better.

In does not matter what rest is used, one should NEVER rest the barrel.

Use the forend on the rest.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We have built rifles for many of the larger bores, and have always built them with a free floating barrel.

We bed the action and the shanks of the barrel, leaving the rest of it free floating.

All these rifles shot extremely accurately.

In fact, the only time we had problems making factory rifles shoot well was when the barrel is NOT free floating.

In every instance, once we have free floated the barrel, the rifle shot much better.

In does not matter what rest is used, one should NEVER rest the barrel.

Use the forend on the rest.

Both CZ and Ruger magnums will shoot one hole groups at 100yds with the barrel ATTACHED to the stock.

quote:

In does not matter what rest is used, one should NEVER rest the barrel.

Use the forend on the rest.

I had this illustrated to me at a young age with a bore sight tool like this one from Cabela's.
Insert the tool, shoulder the rifle and get a good sight picture on the tool's indicator graphic. Have a friend place his finger under your barrel and allow him to hold some of the weight of it by relaxing your hand under the forearm. Watch the difference in the boresight tool indicator. It is not hard to move point of aim from bore axis with just a bit of pressure. Point of impact would be affected exponentially with range.

ChetNC

When I first started out rifle shooting at the range and always rested my barrel on a metal rest,I never have any accuracy issues even though I would shoot out to 400yds.Accuracy issues were caused mainly from copper fouling and a plastic trigger guard that kept cracking around the guard screws.A new trigger guard solved one problem and discovering the biggest shooting secret ever-JB bore paste,solved the other.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When I first started out rifle shooting at the range and always rested my barrel on a metal rest,I never have any accuracy issues even though I would shoot out to 400yds.Accuracy issues were caused mainly from copper fouling and a plastic trigger guard that kept cracking around the guard screws.A new trigger guard solved one problem and discovering the biggest shooting secret ever-JB bore paste,solved the other.

Yes, well be that as it may a freely oscilating barrel will shoot more accurately than a non free oscilating barrel. Unimpeaded barrel oscilation is the key to consistent bullet placement (accuracy).

Brett

Hand position on the sticks and the rifle is important, but what works for one of us may not work for someone else--which is why it's important to practice. I curl my little finger and second finger around the front of the sticks, at the intersection; then I grasp the fore-end with my remaining two fingers and opposing thumb. This sort of ties everything together for me, and has the rifle resting on my hand, not directly on the sticks. This shouldn't matter with a free-floating barrel, but it might with a fully-bedded barrel. As someone said far above, also practice kneeling. I haven't found much utility for prone or even sitting in Africa because of low brush and thorns, but a fast kneeling position can save the day (or at least the shot). Above all practice shooting offhand the most, because it's the most difficult--but in the field try to use it the least.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
My big bore rifles,with their barrel lugs are as accurate as anything at least up to 100yds.I was told by my gunsmith, that a well done hand made,big bore stock, did not need a barrel lug.The lott I am having Martini and Hagn build,will not have a barrel lug.There should not be any problem with putting your hand on the barrel and stock when firing.I would be more concerned with the guard screws not being glued with loctite.

Huh?

.............HUH???? What in hell does a rifle with or without a recoil lug on the barrel have to do with shooting a FREE FLOATING barreled rifle off sticks??????????