I was browsing on the lion forum, and came across this movie in one of the threads. It is fantastic and everyone who visits AR should take the time to watch this movie. It was shot in the Bubye Valley Conservancy and is primarily about how lions have enabled the conservancy to become such a success.

This movie is much better than the stuff we watch on Outdoor Channel or Sportsmens Channel. Check it out, you'll be glad you did.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1002751/m/7651018681

This movie is excellent.

It simply could not be more clear. How do we influence the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service? So much is at stake!

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
I was browsing on the lion forum, and came across this movie in one of the threads. It is fantastic and everyone who visits AR should take the time to watch this movie. It was shot in the Bubye Valley Conservancy and is primarily about how lions have enabled the conservancy to become such a success.

This movie is much better than the stuff we watch on Outdoor Channel or Sportsmens Channel. Check it out, you'll be glad you did.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1002751/m/7651018681

Thanks to Zig Macintosh. Some where on the net you will find the Tanzanian and Zambian contribution.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
I was browsing on the lion forum, and came across this movie in one of the threads. It is fantastic and everyone who visits AR should take the time to watch this movie. It was shot in the Bubye Valley Conservancy and is primarily about how lions have enabled the conservancy to become such a success.

This movie is much better than the stuff we watch on Outdoor Channel or Sportsmens Channel. Check it out, you'll be glad you did.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1002751/m/7651018681

DLS Thank you for flagging this video up,it is excellent.jc

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It simply could not be more clear. How do we influence the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service? So much is at stake!

You should have exercised your ability to influence the USF&W on November 6, 2012. The "90 day review" was technically done prior to that day. They waited until the week after to announce. USF&W answers only to the Secretary of the Interior. The SI is a cabinet position.

Zig's production has been submitted officially to the USF&W review process.

Zig gave this project a 110% effort and it shows. He travelled across Africa and did many a dusty mile to accumulate the footage. Whilst we were enjoying the festive season Zig was in the editing room. Good bloke that.

Outstanding video, I will try to get it up on our site where it should get wide exposure to a U.S. audience.

It really is an incredible video. Zig did a fantastic job with the full 2 hour version of the movie. It details lion hunting in multiple countries, goes over the Kenya situation and even has a very good piece on Andrew's Kafue project.

I have a copy of it and have permission to make further copies. Anyone who wants one PM me and I'll make them a copy and send them the DVD. It's absolutely worth your time and everyone needs to watch it.

I've ordered 30 copies of the DVD to be made and so far 17 have been claimed. 13 remaining for those who want one.

Greg

quote:

Originally posted by Greg Brownlee:
It really is an incredible video. Zig did a fantastic job with the full 2 hour version of the movie. It details lion hunting in multiple countries, goes over the Kenya situation and even has a very good piece on Andrew's Kafue project.

I have a copy of it and have permission to make further copies. Anyone who wants one PM me and I'll make them a copy and send them the DVD. It's absolutely worth your time and everyone needs to watch it.

Greg

PM sent

Pm sent.
Thanks

Lot's of PM's so far, keep them coming!

Greg

Hi Greg,

PM sent. Thanks!

Peter

You are a good guy Greg!

PM sent!

Greg,

PM Sent,

Thanks Buddy,

Butch

A fantastic documentary on the benefits to wildlife, habitat and local economy from well run sport hunting.
Would absolutely love a copy of the full film.

The video neatly sums up the way forward in the survival of all African species. Well done to all involved. Needs to be aired on all major television stations.....

Thanks for the compliments. The movie on the Hunter Proud website is only the Zimbabwe (Bubye Valley Conservancy) part of the production. The whole movie “The Fate of the African Lion” is two hours long and this is the version that Greg Brownlee has kindly offered to send out on DVD. The two hour movie includes Andrew Baldry’s Royal Kafue area in Zambia, the Niassa reserve in Mozambique, TGTS in Tanzania (Bwanamitch) and the situation in Kenya (with a couple of enlightening interviews). There is no way that we would have been able to make the movie without the help of the likes of Andrew and Bwanamitch. AR played no small part in getting us together through the forum, thank you Saeed. I would urge anyone who has an interest in the lion story to take Greg up on his offer.

The lion movie was two years in the making. A production of this nature takes money and without the support of the Hunter Proud Foundation it would have been impossible to make the movie. The Hunter Proud Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit charitable public foundation whose principal aim is to recognize and promote conservation through utilization as well as the rights of the hunter through the use of the media, in particular video. Any support for this foundation would be greatly appreciated and you can find out more on the website www.hunterproud.com

The White Rhino: A Conservation Success Story is another production that we have just completed for use at the just completed CITES convention. Kenya had proposed a moratorium on the hunting of white rhino and this video outlined why this would not be in the best interests of the animal. Under intense pressure from the South African government delegation, Conservation Force, SCI, PHASA and the rhino owners association as well as the CITES secretariat, Kenya withdrew the proposal before the vote. I hope to have this movie up on the Hunter Proud website shortly.

Once again thanks to all concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by Zig Mackintosh:
Thanks for the compliments. The movie on the Hunter Proud website is only the Zimbabwe (Bubye Valley Conservancy) part of the production. The whole movie “The Fate of the African Lion” is two hours long and this is the version that Greg Brownlee has kindly offered to send out on DVD. The two hour movie includes Andrew Baldry’s Royal Kafue area in Zambia, the Niassa reserve in Mozambique, TGTS in Tanzania (Bwanamitch) and the situation in Kenya (with a couple of enlightening interviews). There is no way that we would have been able to make the movie without the help of the likes of Andrew and Bwanamitch. AR played no small part in getting us together through the forum, thank you Saeed. I would urge anyone who has an interest in the lion story to take Greg up on his offer.

The lion movie was two years in the making. A production of this nature takes money and without the support of the Hunter Proud Foundation it would have been impossible to make the movie. The Hunter Proud Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit charitable public foundation whose principal aim is to recognize and promote conservation through utilization as well as the rights of the hunter through the use of the media, in particular video. Any support for this foundation would be greatly appreciated and you can find out more on the website www.hunterproud.com

The White Rhino: A Conservation Success Story is another production that we have just completed for use at the just completed CITES convention. Kenya had proposed a moratorium on the hunting of white rhino and this video outlined why this would not be in the best interests of the animal. Under intense pressure from the South African government delegation, Conservation Force, SCI, PHASA and the rhino owners association as well as the CITES secretariat, Kenya withdrew the proposal before the vote. I hope to have this movie up on the Hunter Proud website shortly.

Once again thanks to all concerned.

You are a good guy Zig, this is an incredible project.

I've received more than 30 requests via email and PM, so I'm having 20 more made. I'm not asking for any money for them, only asking that everyone show at least one other person! Better yet, make some copies so you too can spread them around!

The DVDs should be ready next week and will be sent out accordingly. I don't mind shipping internationally, but just know it will take some time to get to you.

Thanks!

Greg

Thanks Greg,

You are a good guy for distributing the DVDs for free!!

quote:

Originally posted by Zig Mackintosh:
Thanks Greg, You are a good guy for distributing the DVDs for free!!

Any left Greg ?

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
Any left Greg ?

Yes sir! Got a few left!

PM me your address and I'll get them out as soon as they're done being copied!

PM just sent

I was lucky enough to get a copy of the full film from Greg in Reno. I've watched it three times, it is that good.

Excellent piece of well presented facts in an extremely tasteful manner.

Well done Mr. Mackintosh!

Greg, I too just sent you a PM. I hope you have one left for me (since I started this thread ).

I'll definitely try to show it, at the local SCI chapter's meetings.

Greg,
I sent you a PM as well. Thanks for the generous offer.

Greg, I just sent you a pm. Thanks for the offer!

Folks - All 50 films are spoken for. They're being copied now and once I get them back I will start sending (probably mid-next week).

Thanks!

Greg

I posted the link to this film at the Linked-In African Wildlife Conservation Professionals forum (as I have done many times with other videos, reports, and so on) - but it was almost immediately removed (by the moderator, I assume) ... and I expect that it was removed because the link simply showed "Hunter Proud".

The problem with this film is that it is presented as being about hunting - and if the producers only want to impress their fellow hunters, well, that's fine. They've certainly done that - but it's a big mistake; because this is NOT a film about hunting; it's a film about conservation, ecosystem management, the protection and preservation of wildlife, ecological restoration, land-use, and rural empowerment; and if the producers understood that and could get past their obsession with hunting, they'd have much larger and more receptive audience, more support from the general public, and greater credibility within the environmental community.

Y'all can just keep slapping one another on the back if you want; I give it two thumbs up myself, but you're missing out on a huge opportunity.

The first thing to do is to get away from the incredibly self-limiting (and, in fact, self-defeating) Hunter Proud concept and out into the broader world of environmental, socio-economic and cultural sustainability. It's the wave of the future.

SteveGI,

Thanks for your comments. Your posts are always insightful and informative but IMO you are wrong on this one. The Fate of the African Lion was produced with three people in mind, the three biologists at USFWS who decide whether the African lion is listed on the endangered species list as endangered. They have received and watched the movie and said that it was good. If all the movie does is plant a seed of doubt in their minds about listing the lion, it would have done its job. How the movie is used outside of this purpose is a bonus. I don't know who makes up the Linked-In African Wildlife Conservation Professionals forum but I can say this and that is any African conservationist worth his salt realizes the importance of hunting as a conservation tool, it has been used as such in Africa since the 1960's. So if they remove the movie simply because it is produced by the Hunter Proud Foundation then they are certainly not "professionals" IMO. You don't have to like hunting to know that it is important in African wildlife conservation.

The Hunter Proud Foundation was set up to fund the production of movies like this. They took this name precisely to show that hunters should be proud. It is not a back-slapping old boys club making feel-good movies. The movies are scientifically based and are submitted to organizations such as USFWS and CITES (I mentioned earlier that we have submitted a movie on the white rhino to counter the Kenyan proposal to place a moratorium on rhino hunting)

No sir we are not missing out on any opportunity, we are creating opportunity for hunters to show how important hunting is to wildlife conservation. Not catchy slogans used for marketing purposes but tangible, easily digestible evidence that can be used by hunters. If hunters don't do this then the anti-hunters certainly won't. We are not going to hide behind a "politically correct" name just so that we don't offend anyone by it.

I appreciate your perspective, Zig, and best of luck to the entire Hunter Proud crew with all of your future endeavors; but I still think you’re not making the best possible use of the opportunity and resources available to you.

Prior to the internet, most of the major media and general public thought safari-hunting went out with Hemingway; but over the past 15 years or so, that perception has changed … slowly but surely. The recent NYT article on lion hunting is a significant indicator of that.

Personally, I think there’s been a paradigm shift away from protectionism and toward sustainable-use … and I think it’s a BIG story … and someone’s got to tell it – and they’ve got to tell it from the African perspective – because that’s where it all began (with Mossman and Dassman really), right there in the lowveld.

In any case I look forward to seeing the entire Fate of the African Lion film and the one on Rhino too. I’ll stay tuned.

Steve

Well said that man.

Thanks Steve,

I hope that you have ordered a copy from Greg?

No, unfortunately I didn't see Greg's offer until it was too late.

One other thing though. It took a realy long time for the Hunter Proud video to download when I first viewed it and wouldn't download at all the next time. Is anyone else having that problem?

Steve

... and by the way, I've been making lots of new friends over at Linked-In. Here's a couple of charming messages from yesterday from one Manny Mvula (Volunteer Scientific Advisor at the Zambia Primate Project):


Who is this Steve man exposing his selfishness and washing his dirty laundry in public. He thrives on bloody money whereas some us have the intelligence to graft good and proper. Did he inherit his money from the heavens or from hell??? It is sickening that people like him continue to be tolerated. I wouldnt be surprised if he is also a child molester especially that he believes in killing innocent animals for pleasure. He looks well dogy to me but thats my opinion anyway. I have concieved this opinion following his disrespectful behaviour and lack of credentials. I would rather ask him to get a life and show some respect because he is going to get this from left right and centre. He is free to express himself but not in a patronising and colonial way. Who does he think he is? The King?? king of death perhaps which in normal society is not a nice thing to be called.

:: :: ::

All those that still believe that they have the right to invade Africa and get rich on the brocken backs of African villagers, waving their gold watches in fornt of our faces MUST be sent to mental Hospital and locked up or seek a brain transplant or fill in an application for a NORMAL CITIZENS LIFE. I would rather stick needles in my own eyes than pause for a picture against trophy animals (mounted and stuffed) JUST to show what a big man I am, biggoted and possibly how stupid I am. I would have to apply for a new life and start all over again just so the sins of killing and the dirty money i OWN is disposed of humanely. What breaks my brains and drives me up the wall is "How does one live a life knowing that what they are doing or what they seem to believe or engaged in is contrary to being human"???. Such people deserve to see what it feels like to be on the otherside of the gun the hold. I look forward to the day, time and the HOUR when that bullet will boomerang and hit the right target NOT the innocent animal that has done nothing wrong when presenting its natural beauty and contributing in many ways to the Biological Foundation upon which we ALL rely. Pick on someone your own size (NOT our WILDLIFE) is my advise to all those who need treatment. Such stabbornness is seemingly a genetic feature and believe you me ... this gene will no doubt mutate into one that is tolerable and or eradicated through a breeding ban. I may not be a church goer but I can not resist to call on the almighty. (I will not use his name in vain) God forbid they should be allowed to pass on their progeny.

Steve,

Marijuana abuse/use is common place in Zambia.

Yeah, I figured as much, but here are a couple of follow-ups:

Caroline Mason (Volunteer Co-ordinator & Marketing Director mad4life Adventures) Yes absolutely agree

and from Sarel Van der Merwe (Founder-member of the African Lion Working Group): Hello Caroline. I see you and Manny are at it again - well done both of you.

Need to post this for your South african tweeter:


Timbavati Private Nature Reserve Announcement

Issued by the Chairman, Tom Hancock

Date: 21 February 2013

The Timbavati does not support the idea of stopping an activity which is legal, sustainable, scientific and professionally managed, supported by numerous conservation-oriented NGOs and research institutions, and which brings in the very revenue required to counter the uncontrolled and highly illegal scourge that is rhino poaching. For the Timbavati to be financially sustainable and for us to achieve our conservation aims and objectives we need sustainable sources of revenue whether it is from limited hunting, photographic tourism other sources.

Individual landowners do not benefit financially from any hunting which takes place in the Reserve and are prohibited from hunting commercially on their own properties. The Timbavati Association is a not-for-profit conservation organisation.

100% of the proceeds generated from sustainable hunting activities in the Timbavati are utilised exclusively for the conservation and protection of not only our rhino population, but also the protection of all fauna and flora under our custodianship.

Sustainable utilisation of our natural resources as practised by the Timbavati is legal, well supported by environmental legislation, government, and SANParks as well as by a large number of reputable, relevant research institutions and conservation-based NGOs [Research available on request]. Sustainable utilisation of natural resources by way of hunting is entrenched in the Policy for Buffer Zones to National Parks.

The general consensus of the scientific community and reputable conservation NGOs appears to be against an outright ban on the hunting of cats and rhino. CITES states that rather than trophy hunting having a negative impact on white rhino population, "available information suggests the contrary".

The Timbavati supports the findings of Endangered Wildlife Trust chief Yolan Friedman and Wilderness Foundation chief Andrew Muir who cautioned that a moratorium on rhino hunting could have “unintended and negative consequences which are prejudicial to the southern white rhino conservation as a whole”.

“To allow the continued expansion of rhino range and numbers, and so enable overall numbers in the country to grow… the private sector and communities have to provide the new conservation land. The extent to which they do so largely depends on economic incentives and the perceived risk of managing rhino.”

They conclude that a moratorium on hunting could also result in a drop in rhino prices and encourage owners to remove more of their animals.

IUCN Species Survival Commissions (SSC) African Rhino Specialist Group (AfRSG) (Appendix 4) has over the years recognised the generally positive role that sport hunting has played in the increase in white rhino numbers in South Africa. Hunting of white rhino (WR) started in 1968 when perhaps there were only around 1,800 white rhino in Africa. It helped give white rhino a value on auctions that has encouraged the expansion of numbers and range. Thus white rhino numbers in South Africa have increased over 10 fold since hunting started.

The support for the continued hunting of white rhino is taken up by the man who arguably was largely responsible for saving the white rhino from extinction, Dr Ian Player. Dr. Player stated in an interview recently that in 1960 it was estimated that there were 60,000 black rhino in Africa, and only 600 white . By the end of Operation Rhino (of which Dr. Player played a central role), there were only a few thousand black rhino while white rhino numbers were growing rapidly. Dr Player commented, “What lead to this, and what people don’t understand – and don’t want to understand - is that in 1970, white rhino were placed back on the hunting list. That meant that game ranchers were able to buy [white rhino] and have hunters come and shoot them and pay a lot of money to do so. To the great credit of the ranchers, they were taking that money, buying more land and buying more rhino. The numbers of rhino shot were minimal, but what it meant was the habitat was being expanded all the time and that literally lead to an explosion of white rhino.”

Thanks to Operation Rhino, it is estimated that there are approximately 4,500 white rhino (or 23% of the world’s population) on 2.2 million hectares of private land in South Africa (EWT). The combined habitat on private land is bigger than the size of the Kruger National Park.

In 1968 the Timbavati was one of the first recipients of white rhino under Operation Rhino. Initially 4 white rhino were introduced and over the next 5 years, we purchased a further 22 from the then Natal Parks Board. In 1994, prior to the removal of the ecological disaster that was the fence between the Kruger and Timbavati, our white rhino population had grown to 67. On removal of the fence we immediately lost 70% of our rhino to Kruger. So the Timbavati helped to stock the central KNP areas with white rhino. As the meta population in the Kruger expanded north, our white rhino numbers slowly recovered to such an extent that we believe we are close to territorial capacity. As we have no fence, all game found in the Timbavati (and the Kruger) is legally classified as “res nullius” or ownerless. Therefore the accusation that we are hunting Kruger rhino, from both a legal and logical standpoint, is absolute nonsense. To the contrary, by removal of the fence, Timbavati helped to increase white rhino numbers in the central Kruger area.

Contrary to popular belief, according to CITES the overall populations of both white rhinoceros and the black rhinoceros continue to increase in the wild despite high and increasing levels of poaching. White rhinoceros populations now total about 20,165 individuals, and black rhinoceros populations about 4,880.

When it comes to hunting, we will always encounter emotive arguments. Our management team have a duty to put emotion aside to make the best decisions based on the best scientific information available to ensure we uphold our objective to “promote the conservation of biodiversity for the sake of posterity, and to manage its ecosystem, landscapes & species populations to serve the ecological interests of the Timbavati and the Open System”.

My greatest fear regarding the uninformed anti-hunting activists is that their sentimentality for individual species, or even for individual specimens within a species, will have the unintended consequence of the decline or even destruction of certain species in the wild.

There are many animal rights activists and members of the public who criticise sustainable hunting without really understanding the harsh realities facing conservation in Africa. And then you get true conservationists who are involved with saving and protecting rhino all day, every day. The Timbavati is the latter and probably does more to protect rhino than any NGO or other private organisation. This comes at huge cost and needs to be paid for somehow.

The Timbavati has one of the most effective anti-poaching units in the world. This comes at a cost. We have experienced field rangers (who receive paramilitary training), electrified alarmed fences, and vehicles for armed response. In additional there are costs associated with informants fees, fees paid to assist with intelligence gathering, improved firearms to counter increased firepower of poachers and legal fees to represent staff when they are involved in shooting incidents. And we have darted, micro-chipped and DNA-sampled more than 70 rhino in an on-going programme to aid law enforcement in curtailing the illegal trade in rhino horn. The list goes on…

When it comes to the war on poaching we are the Western Front. Not only do we protect rhino located within the Timbavati, we also protect a large number of rhino located in the western section of the Kruger National Park (KNP). We are a Buffer Zone to the National Park. The Timbavati works with the KNP on a daily basis to coordinate anti-poaching activities. We are on the ground, all day, every day protecting rhino at huge personal risk to our dedicated field rangers and management. Armed incidents with well-armed poachers are a regular occurrence.

Specialist independent scientific studies are undertaken for each species to be hunted which analyses the impact of any off-take of the species. From the study, a hunting protocol emerges, which dictates how and which individual specimens may be hunted. All animals removed from the Timbavati through hunting have to be under permit issued by the provincial conservation agency, after approval by the Kruger National Park . This is a lengthy and controlled exercise, and should the sustainability of any species, or any sub-group within a species, be under threat generally indicted by a decline in numbers, the process would prohibit the hunting of such species. The Timbavati would never allow hunting of a certain species if there was any negative impact, short or long term.

Dr David Mabunda, CEO of SANParks recently stated, ''We have a good relationship with the Timbavati Association, and they are excellent conservationists. Hunting in private reserves, contractual and provincial parks is allowed within the framework of provincial legislation and sustainable use of natural resources. This framework means that hunting can only take place if it is based on scientific studies, scoping exercises, aerial surveys and the granting of a permit to hunt by the department responsible for conservation. SANParks scientists and rangers are part of the process that determines [hunting operations]. We have reached an agreement with Timbavati and the other privately owned reserves that border the Kruger Park. This agreement states that the area would be managed according to the management plan that applies to the Kruger National Park. And our policy is open to the sustainable use of natural resources.”
Hunting of iconic species will always be emotive and unpopular to the many uninformed. People do not need to enjoy hunting, or to respect hunters. Rather they need to understand the enormous benefits that hunting – including the hunting of white rhino - brings to conservation, not only in the Timbavati, but to the whole of southern Africa.

Do we have a rhino hunting problem or a rhino poaching problem? We all agree we have the latter but to say that they are one and the same thing is simply ludicrous. Sustainable hunting of rhino is legal, and encouraged by environmental legislation and policy, generates revenue for general conservation activities and rhino protection and, probably most importantly, results in the expansion of rhino habitat and numbers.

We are constantly looking for alternative revenue sources to fund our conservation operations. The Timbavati regards itself as one of the few examples in Africa where photographic tourism and sustainable utilisation through harvesting are conducted within the same environment. The Timbavati does not regard these activities as mutually exclusive. Many of our landowners run successful lodges which generate conservation levies, but eco-tourism is not a panacea for all the challenges facing conservation in southern Africa, and the number of lodges that the Timbavati can sustain from an ecological and financial perspective is limited. It is generally accepted by reputable scientists that photographic tourism operations are more damaging to the environment than sustainable, well managed hunting operations. Simple anecdotal evidence from the Timbavati illustrates the point: it takes approximately 18,000 guest nights in lodges (or one guest staying for 50 years) to generate the same revenue that the Timbavati Association receives from one hunter shooting one rhino.

If you are a critic of rhino hunting, ask yourself “What have I done to save the rhino today?” and compare your answer to what the Timbavati does every day, all day.

Tom Hancock

083 600 3210

tom@rockwood.co.za