The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Is it fair to hunt over water in dry country?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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A little bored, so thought I'd ask a question to get us thinking about this coming hunting season. We snuck into an isolated waterhole in Namibia on one of my trips, and took this photo below. I think it shows why many consider it "too easy" and "unsporting" to hunt over water. There were also Kudu, Steenbok, and a Duiker outside the frame of the camera, that I couldn't fit in. Just wondering what the percentages are, for or against?  | ||
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It is illegal in Tanzania to hunt over a waterhole. I think most bow hunts in Namibia take place at waterholes. As you pose the question, I do think it's a bit unsporting for rifle hunters to set up at a waterhole in dry country. It can also scare the game away from a necessary part of existence. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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When I was in Namibia, there had been a good bit of rain. I wanted a warthog. We had seen several. I passed up shots at over 300 yards and a few that were to quick for me. About the eighth day, we sat near a wet spot beside a stock tank. I shot a warthog that came in, because he had only three legs, the other appeared to have been lost to a snare. Since it was injured, and not a trophy. It did not count as a trophy. We hunted two more days and no more good shot opportunities at warthogs appeared. We did sit and watch wildlife the last evening at a waterhole. I had a rifle, but we were not far from a leopard bait and there was a male in the area. That said, I would not shoot again at a water hole. My PH and I spoke about it both before and after we took this pig. We both agreed that it didn't seem very sporting, even though the grass was tall and it was hard to spot smaller game unless it was at water. I used to be a bowhunter, and don't even think it would be much sport with a bow. Those animals must get a drink, and there are not that many water places in that country. IMHO, just isn't a hunt, it's more like target practice. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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Steve, I hope you won't mind my correcting you slightly there. Whilst the Tanzanian game acts forbid hunting most game within 100/500 metres of water, (depending on which act you consult) there are some exceptions to that rule. Notably, waterfowl, sitatunga, otter, waterbuck & hippo. It should be noted that crocodile are not one of the exceptions. I can only assume this was an error that has simply never been corrected.  However, most African countries have some kind of restriction on hunting over water. | |||
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I see nothing un sporting hunting over water with a Bow. 25 yd shots over water no different than a treestand hunt over a food source. I guess I am a lousy bowhunter as I thought bowhunting Africa over waterholes was not that easy. So many choices and they never stop moving or relaxing . Africa Bug " Embrace the bite , live for adventure " EJ Carter 2011 | |||
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It is done all the time in South Africa. Wait, S.A. is not really hunting. You know, what ever floats your boat. If you can live with what you do then go for it. I have personally hunted over a waterhole in South Africa. I had a great time and don't need anyone's approval to say I enjoyed the Hell out of it. There are a thousand degrees of hunting and what is "fair". Maybe you don't hunt off of bait. Maybe you do. Maybe you use a bow and think rifle hunting is too easy. Maybe you use a rifle but only with iron sights. Some think hunting on Sunday is immoral in the U.S. See my point? There are also ways to take animals that would be considered immoral or "not fair" by just about anybody... for example, shooting plains game with the aid of a helicopter, but if it is legal in the region/country/state you are hunting and you have no problems with it then it is a personal decision. By the way, that is a beautiful picture. I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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I have mixed feelings about this. One on hand I think hunting over water is too easy. Conversely, I think hunting over water might allow a level of selectivity that can improve the effectiveness of a management plan. For example, if hunting over water allows the micromanaging of harvests on the basis of estimated age or sex, then I am all for it. In short, the number of juvenile sable or female zebra shot in the heat of the moment should decline dramatically. IMO, the very tangible benfits outweigh the abstract costs that exist only in my mind. | |||
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Personally, I reckon it's a good example of the old adage of rules being for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.  | |||
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It's just not Cricket.. | |||
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Sit on a waterhole is not hunting for me. I've done it for warthogs but will not do it for other animals. | |||
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  I've done it for warthog, during the heat of the day,.........don't think I'd do it for any other game....... Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
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Of course, it can also have it's problems. Some years ago I was hunting a father and son team, one of whom shot a warthog that took the shot and bolted like a rocket...... we tracked it in a dead straight line and eventually it's spoor took us to a smallish waterhole, but after that, absolutely nothing. After a good deal of searching, we figured it simply had to be somewhere under the water. It took us a looong time and lots of laughter before we found it. Turned out the bloody thing had made a dive for the water just as it died and God knows how, but it had got itself stuck in the mud at the bottom. The father and son who were with me are regulars with us and good friends and the father who has the silliest sense of humour you'll ever come across was spurred to write this: http://www.shakariconnection.c...t-water-warthog.html   | |||
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Your question was.Is it fair.The answer is no. | |||
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I had my worst elephant hunt on a water hole! We got to the waterhole about lunch time, and found two bulls drinking from it. One was small, and the other had only one large tusk. We decided to shoot the one tusker, but did not want to shoot him by the waterhole. So we found a nice shady tree downwind, and waited with Walter for the bulls to have their fill and leave. They had their drink and walked off to find a shady tree to have an afternoon siesta. We left Walter in the truck, with instructions for him to keep quiet. The elephants did not go far, and eventually we managed to get into a position for a side brain shot. I had a 416 Weatherby, and the bull's head was hidden behind a tree trunk. He was rocking backwards and forwards - those who have hunted elephant would know what I mean. His rocking motion sometimes increases, and his head does come clear for shot. I know what I am about to tell you will sound very hard to believe, but, I can assure you, this is exactly how it did happen. Just as the elephants head became clear for a shot, and I was about to squeeze the trigger, Walter SCREAMED "OOAAHOOOAAH" just like the original Tarzan of the Jungle! The elpehant started moving, I fired, and the elephant continued his forward run! Roy fired at him, I loaded and fired, both of us running after the elephant and firing as fast as we could. About 12 shots later, the elephant dropped! Now we have a major problem, as both Roy and me wanted nothing better than to kill bloody Walter! And as we were debating this, he appeares carrying my 270 Ackley, with his head covered by a mosquito net! He had that look of total amazement on his face, and before we could say anything, he said "Bloody hell, I thought I would find you two dead after being crushed to death by that elephant. I was debating how I was going to explain to your father what the elephat did to you" I cut his short, and said "Shut up and listen. Why the hell did you scream?" Walter "I did not mean to cause any problems. I just thought you two might have gone to sleep watching the elephants, as it took you two so long before you fired. In fact, I thought I must have jufged it perfect, as just as I shouted, you fired. My happiness did not last long, as I heard the second, third, fourth and fifth shot. Then I thought to myself. OH SHIT! The elephant is going to kill them. How am I going to explain it to their families!" We thought we beter leave the argument at that, as it would not have been very hard to explain it to HIS family how he ended up as croc bait! | |||
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Would you hunt whitetails over oak trees?? | |||
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Or put out decoys for ducks, shoot cats over bait, run cats with dogs, plant food plots for deer, call moose or elk, hunt nocturnal species at night with a light etc. etc. If it is legal and does not endanger the health of the game herds where is the problem? Now if these methods are repugnant to an idividual hunter personally that is fine. Each hunter should hunt the way that makes him happy with his hunt as long as it is legal. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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If it is legal then it is up to the hunter. We all hunt for different reasons and with different expectations. I wouldn't force my standards on anyone and would detest anyone forcing their standards on me. | |||
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On my one and only trip to South Africa I had two occasions to hunt near water. On the first I sat with only a tracker near a small water hole and watched a small hippo harassing a 6' long croc by bumping him up out of the water with his nose. At one point the hippo was swimming upside down with his feet sticking out of the water. Needless to say, I had a grand time even if I never shot anything. On a second occasion I sat at a blind 60 or so yards away from a waterhole and watched giraffe, baboon, and other animals until I finally shot a nice warthog. Hunting over waterholes is like looking for women at a bar. You'll see a lot of wild life, acting ethically is up to you. | |||
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I was stuck hunting over waterholes on my first hunt in Namibia last year - despite the PH's claim that it would be spot and stalk when I booked the hunt. It's one of the primary reasons I won't hunt in Africa again.  AFA hunting whitetails over oak trees, I don't believe it's the same thing. Acorns are but one food whitetails eat, they can decide to eat just about anywhere and anything else in the bush, their choice. But water - the only water around - not kosher. | |||
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Simply well said... Your short statement say's it all too well.. MopaneMike | |||
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Sums it up perfectly Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
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Well, I must be the most unsporting man on this forum as I love to hunt pigs, deers, cats or whatever can be hunted over waterholes, baits, etc, with or without a spotlight, shooting from a truck or after stalking for hours, it makes no difference for me, I enjoy being "out there" with friends, eating barbacues and drinking cold beer. It all depend the country (type of area) or game you are hunting. Some places or animals can be hunted only by night or over a whaterhole. For me there are very few things better than staying all night near a waterhole watching game, stars and remebering old girlfriends while waiting for a given animal. And if I share these moments with a good friend much better. So as I said, what an unsporting hunter I am.... L | |||
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No Lorenzo, you are not unsporting hunter, you are a realist telling the truth. I am sure some of the responders on here would change their tune if it meant getting a record class animal at a waterhole or eating tag soup. It is amazing the ethics people develope when setting at a confuser(computer). I am happy to say that I feel that I am good company, as I would be right there beside you at those waterholes. If I ever get the chance to go to Africa, or South America, it would be a One shot deal, and I am going there to kill something, as long as it is legal, I can live with it. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Lorenzo: I hereby promote you to an honorary Texan.....Congratulations!  xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Twelve shots to kill an elephant? It must have been terrible to see an elephant die that way? Surely a lot of suffering by the poor beast? And you think bow hunting elephant is cruel and a stunt? Kinda discredits a lot of claims on here about the effects of large rifles over bow and arrow and swift, ethical kills of DG.  Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Thanks to everyone for their replies. I did post this to get us thinking and talking, and see how everyone felt. Sure is a great way to see lots of game, and get good video. In the photo there are some gemsbok, hartebeest, some springbok, and a big boar warthog walking away out in the grass. I agree that it is mostly a deeply personal matter, and what you yourself can live with, after the fact. For what it is worth, I did shoot a lovely big pig over this very same water, but that was all. Seven days later, with this much activity and lots of big animals, it was dry and a mute point! | |||
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That is one of the best compliments I have received in my life Thanks L | |||
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Larry, It was one of those things no one can explain. From external observation, my bullet placement was fine, but had no effect on the bull. So we did an autopsy, and discovered that the bullet tumbles as it entered the head, went up and over the brain, then out. | |||
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Saeed I would like very much to know what bullet and velocity you were shooting in the 416 Weatherby please? Thanks Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Now that's funny. | |||
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I think it was a Barnes Super Solid, and the velocity was about 2400. A very similar occurance happened to Alan Vincent and one of his clients. Again, the bullet entered at the right place, changed direction and came out of the top of the head of the elephant. I cannot recall the caliber or bullet used though. | |||
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Saeed I know lot's of ???--but round nose or new banded flat nose??? I would suspect round nose, but in 416 caliber I have been less than pleased even with the flat nose version, I suspect that it is the size of the meplat on a 416 caliber bullet? But if you could recall if it was round nose, I would not be surprised at all. Thanks Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Yes, they were round nose. | |||
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For what it's worth, I don't hunt over bait or food plots. Also don't hunt out tree stands any more. Have done all those things, and don't find it to be the thing for me. I do hunt through oak woods, and in farm country, but to me at least, that is a lot different. Also I've shot a bunch of stuff off the seat of a combine and tractor in years gone by and had fun doing it, but don't do that any more, either. And yes, I eat a lot of tags. But that's OK. For me its the hunting part. Chasing dogs around in the woods after raccoons is fun. But it's the chase that's fun for me. On the other hand, if you enjoy it, whatever 'it' is, and it's legal where you are, go for it. The thing about hunting is that it is an individuals experience that counts, not what somebody else thinks. It's just that some of those things just don't make my socks go up and down. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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Lorenzo: I agree 100%. Bill Quimby | |||
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I'm with our friend Lorenzo on this one. I'll shot an animal any way I want and it ain't none of your damn business! Your an egotistical ass if you think I really care if you approve or not. The dead animal doesn't know the difference. Ethics are personal. Your ethics may not agree with mine. You mind yours and I'll mind mine. I've shot warthogs in Africa from a waterhole. It was for a friend who wanted meat. Didn't bother me a bit. However, on the same trip I passed on a nice Kudu, Wildebeast and Waterbuck from a waterhole. My call. If you had been there and took the shoot, I would not have been been bothered. Your call, your ethics, not mine. | |||
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You know, I got to the point where I follow that old axiom. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". This simple fact was brought to me the first time I hunted in South Africa. We wold be driving along, and see a zebra, I was told to shoot it, so jumped from the truck, and shot it. A few miles further, we saw a gemsbok. The same thing happened. Then my PH asked why the hell was I jumping from the truck to shoot. I told him that was the way I have always hunted before. He said you might as well stay put and shoot from the truck, because that is the way they did it, and the end result is not going to change. He was absolutely right, and Walter, of course, fell in love with that sort of hunting. In fact, the next day they gave him a sand bag to put on top of the truck cab, and use it as a rest. And as usual, he wasn't satisfied with it that way. He put the sand bag and rested his rifle on it. Trouble was he was pointing in the wrong direction. So - I am NOT making this up! - he taps on the cab, telling the driver "left, left, left, STOP! Right a bit, a bit more, STOP! SLOWLY to the left a bit more, STOP Bloody hell, this driver is USELESS, I have to move myself to shoot" We all had a great laugh! | |||
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Saeed Thanks for the info on the RN bullet. I am not surprised at all. Regardless of manufacturer RN I believe can and does at times go off course. In my test work and medium it is very near 100% of the time depending on the medium. In the field I am sure it is less, but the potential is always there. Your problem on that hunt as I see it was this issue alone. As for hunting over the waterhole, I have done so on occasion and never considered it an issue. I have also sit at the waterholes for my wife to take photos. I don't consider it an issue one way or the other. As for hunting from the truck, as Saeed says "When in Rome". The biggest problem I have with the truck is that it is never still enough for me! Most of the time I am off and running. But I have on occasion been on a shooting mission (not hunting) and have shot several animals quickly from the truck. No big deal. I would refuse to hunt a major animal, buffalo, lion or something from the truck however. One must be on the same ground as dangerous game for that. Lesser critters no big deal. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Other than for culling or hunting water fowl the idea of shooting at a water hole is completely aborent. Much the same applies about shooting from a vehicle except for culling and predator control. But I won't blacklist those that do. Let your concience be your guide. 465H&H | |||
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Put me in Lorenzo and Saeed's camp. As a general rule I prefer to stalk whatever I am hunting, if that is not feasible, I'll conform to the local hunting mores. | |||
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