Phil as you have been most involved in trying to assist in this matter which I have grateful for you will be able to confirm that you have been in the loop with most of the subsequent communications & efforts to sort out the problems (CEPEC) etc as we discussed when we last recently saw eachother at National Parks HQ where I was working on these exports.
You can also confirm I did in fact at one stage deliver & leave with you for a period of time trophies for safekeeping at your request so they do exist & are in safekeeping & good condition & any suggestion that I have sold clients trophies is fantastic.
You can also confirm that National Parks themselves have been copied & involved in all of those communications.
Besides the banking issues there were also complications with the CITES permit for the Leopard as you know.
Aaron was also in the loop initially & did also assist in communicating with the authorities etc.
The fact is I too have continued trying to conclude all this satisfactorily & when assumptions are made & when only half the information is taken out of context & used as the basis for expressing opinions it can & does paint a very lopsided picture.
JJ I will respond your query via email & I apologize if my famous email make heavy reading but I have just tried to be thorough in the pasting explaining exactly what the problems were. (Also if you check I did email an update to you on the 29th of December to which I got no response, I also asked for a phone number I could reach you on so that I could explain in person.
I have always acknowledged responsibility for this unsatisfactory set of circumstances & apologized sincerely for it.
Despite all the inevitable ridicule to follow, I am still doing my best to get you your trophies home.

Don't have a dog in this hunt, but knowing Phillip S. like I do and reading so many positive things about Buzz.

When it look like a duck, flies like a duck, swims like a duck, has feathers like a duck, web feet like a duck and quacks like a duck
IT'S A DUCK...

THANK FOR POSTING BUZZ

Curious if Huber Halles was involved in any of the shipping of these (missing) trophies?

Hi guys,

Okay this is what I have noted -

1. I have been liaising with GD and a few previous hunters on their trophies and their whereabouts.

2. Yes, I collected a sable belonging to a hunter to keep it until the export papers came through. Proof that the trophy was still there - affirmed. Those where then dropped off again when you told me things were ready to be exported - 3 years ago.

3. National Parks were contacted and attached onto our emails. Alas - They have been of no use whatsoever in either pressurizing GD or making a stand or even helping other avenues to export the trophies. It may have been like talking to a cardboard box.

4. Cities complications? As far as I am aware - if all the necessary paperwork photos etc are attached with the TR2's no complications can arise. So am unaware of exactly what these complications these are, unless permits or funds were not issued/ paid.

5. The problem is GD, is that you email and we talk about how you are making progress and then nothing. No emails - no phone calls. I tried to offer another avenue to export the trophies under my company but you did not take it. If it was only a financial problem I'm sure we could have worked this out - but it seems to be bigger than this.

So whereby yes, Authorities are involved and the steps that I took to try and help are there but to no avail.

I really hope that you have a plan from here, as these guys trusted you and your company and really all they want is their trophies home.

On a GOOD note - I can say that one hunter DID get his trophies about 3 years ago - if that makes any difference when all this started.

Also point of correction since it was put out there Buzz you said no payments made since July last year, in fact you received another payment Oct/Nov of $2500 anyway since we have been in direct communication today on this end & have an understanding I'll leave it at that.

Phil I appreciate all that.
On the trophies exported we did manage to export the last half dozen clients trophies through Andy Hunter from that year after I was finally able to get the RBZ acquittals & it is just the remaining three that we had complications with & are still trying to conclude.
Following that, the past 2 years there have not been any problems or any outstanding trophies that have not already shipped.
On the Leopard issue it was not any of the things you mentioned which was the problem... I mentioned what it was to JJ some time back & will PM you on that which I'm sure you'd prefer.

Just out of curiosity, who do you have to perform oral sex on around here to be exempt from being held accountable for your involvement in transactions that turn into goat ropings? For those of you who are spending more than what the majority of those in this country make in a year for a vacation, which of the "professionals" that took your money do you hold responsible for closure of the transaction?

Is this GD fellow on drugs? He seems to have the cognitive function and rationalization skills of your average street junkie.

Guys - Its really this simple, Gordon Duncan is responsible for the money he owes guys like Buzz and for the trophies he owes guys like Lahtari, period!!!! Nobody else is to blame, no one else is responsible, nobody else can make him send the trophies, and nothing else can make Gordon - make it right, we have all tried!!!!

100% of the money was paid to Gordon for trophy fees/daily rates on the 2 hunts I helped arrange, period!!!

This issue was discussed once before, and I'll tell you now as I did then - and you can look at the original hunt offering I made years ago here on AR, I helped book a couple of hunts for no commission, for Gordon. Gordon was a friend, he was looking for help in selling a couple hunts, he had always done good in the past (as I am sure Buzz and others would likely attest to) when he was running hunts on the Save Conservancy, thus I and others had no reason to think that same good service would not continue.

I did book a couple of hunts for him, the trophies were never sent as planned, and after dozens and dozens of emails, including asking Phil to help in the matter - over the course of roughly a year I would guess likely longer (its been a couple of years ago so I do not remember exactly) there was no other alternative but to give up, IMO. We heard story, after story, after story - delay after delay, after delay. All to no avail! Phil too can tell you how many times I emailed him / talked to him about trying to get the trophies from Gordon, because Gordon stopped all comms with me eventually too. I did all I could do, as did Phil (who was simply trying to help / he had no real involvement) but just as Buzz is experiencing too, short of going to his house personally and beating the crap out of him - there was nothing more that could be done! And even that would not solve the problem!!

I simply think Gordon was robbing Peter to pay Paul, and in the end could not pay the govt trophy fees for the animals taken, even though the money was all paid to him - thus exportation has never been authorized. I honestly don't believe that was Gordon's intention from the get-go, but I think he got in over his head in Doma and could not meet all the financial responsibilities in the end.

A very unfortunate circumstance for the two clients, and I obviously wish I would have never tried to help. I would love to say in 23 years in the hunting biz that I have never made any mistakes, that too is unfortunately not true! I trusted someone that have proven in the past to be trustworthy - that changed and the hunters lost their trophies - for that I am truly sorry. I realize Lahtari's disappointment - and I am sorry he still holds it against me, it certainly was not anything intentional that I did. The other client still to this very day books / and hunts with me every year, as he knows I personally did nothing wrong and he places the blame squarely where it lies, at Gordon's feet. He too has never seen his trophies, both an elephant bull and a nice leopard as I recall.

Aaron, do not take this the wrong way, as I am making no accusation, only asserting what would have been the right thing to do.

Did you pay over your commission to your damaged clients? When one acts as an agent for an unscrupulous principal, is there any other choice?

Again, just a question, not an accusation.

Hey Mike -

If you read para 3 of Aaron's post immediately above yours, you can see that he states clearly that he charged no commission on the bookings in question.

Reading comprehension counts, even on AR where it is too frequently lacking.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Aaron, do not take this the wrong way, as I am making no accusation, only asserting what would have been the right thing to do.

Did you pay over your commission to your damaged clients? When one acts as an agent for an unscrupulous principal, is there any other choice?

Again, just a question, not an accusation.

I don't honestly understand the question? Did I pay "over" my commission to my damaged clients, what commission? I didn't make any commission on these two hunts, I was trying to do a favor for Gordon - trying to help him book hunts. I stated that clearly above, and I stated that in my original hunt offering several years ago.

Secondly - had I made comms on the hunt, are you asking if I should have made the clients whole by paying 100% of their cost on the hunt? In other words if I made $3,000 in comms, and the total daily rate/trophy fees came to lets say $30,000.00 for example (in places like Zim agents don't get comms on trophy fees generally, only daily rates - often times the trophy fees are as much or more than the daily rates) are you asking if I think I should be responsible for paying $30,000.00 to the client, because I was the booking agent???

Thanks, I did not read this entire saga. Hence the very cautious nature of my question. Aaron, perhaps needless to say, but bravo for doing the right thing. Only the commission was in question. The rest is the responsibility of your erstwhile principal.

Aaron, re-reading your original post, I wonder if you weren't being worked....?

quote:

I am offering these hunts as a favor to Mr. Gordon Duncan, owner of Doma Safaris in Zimbabwe. Some of you may know Gordon, he is a cousin of Glenn Stockil at SHANGAAN HUNTERS in the Save Valley, and prior to Glenn running the operation, Gordon was handling the hunts at Senuko for the family. I am scheduled to hunt Doma with Gordon in about 4 weeks, but I have NOT yet hunted the area. I will personally be hunting elephant/buffalo. I AM NOT taking any commission on these hunts, but simply trying to help a friend get some clients as he has had two catastrophic vehicle failures in the past two weeks, thus he is trying to sell a couple hunts quickly to help finance the repairs of one and the replacement of another. Normally I DO NOT represent a hunt to clients without personal experience in the area myself, but I have known Gordon for many years, and I trust what he tells me to be accurate.

It seems Gordon used to run an honest operation, but somehow that had taken a sharp turn to the south, and everyone who has dealings with him has paid a price.

Aaron, or anyone else for that matter, booking hunts for him, has absolutely no hand in this.

I wonder ho many other hunters have been affected by Gordon sad turn of behavior??

I feel compelled to make something public about Aaron Neilson, more than a few years ago I hunted with a company that will remain un-named (not Aaron's company). I had a good hunt, didn't shoot anything, but it was a good experience, I left a deposit for another hunt the next year. Time passed and I began trying to contact the outfitter to get the details, to no avail, no returned phone calls or emails. I know one of his guides personally, and I made a comment about not being able to get hold of him. In short order, I received a phone call from Aaron, giving me all of the details and getting everything "set up". To this day, I do not know why he got involved and completed the transaction the other guy took the first 50% for, but it was noticed and is appreciated. If he (Aaron) had never called me, I never would have had any legitimate beef with him as far as I knew he had nothing to do with the transaction. Never said "thanks" Aaron, but I am saying it now.

Two points I'd like to make here for what little I know and I know none of the gents this thread is about.

When someone (like myself) is ignorant to a situation and reads the posts, one can only use logic and common sense. When I read Aaron's and Phillips's comments they are to the point, logical, and seemingly honest. When I read Gordon's post it is a cloak and dagger mystery that is so convoluted there is something hidden in all the double speak. I'm grateful folks like Aaron and Phillip are in evolved in the business.

Secondly, this thread is an excellent example of the value of AR and the posting allowed here. As in my tribulations with 70North Air Taxi and the charge for a flight not taken, many forums won't allow negative comments thusly keeping the buying public from knowing the truth. Yes, bogus accusations can be made but if the person in question can reply honestly and to the point (as Aaron and Phillip did here) false accusation will quickly fall away.

So, thanks to you two gents for your honesty and thanks to Saeed for the freedom allowed on AR.
Cheers, gents.
Cal

Aaron, I'm putting myself at the mercy of the AR jury, but you said you gave up on trying to resolve the situation for your clients. I know you didn't get paid commissions. You were trying to help others booking for two hunts without commission.

In my business, those favors end up biting me in the ass more than paying clients. I've learned.

It's sad that favors end up creating headaches for service providers. I am bound to different standards. I've felt like an idiot after the fact.

I really hope it all works out. You are not the bad actor. I think Mr. Duncan is done with the knowledgable crowd.

seems like G.D cant be trusted , i think a better option to export trophys might be to use Andy Hunter . Im sure Andy can be trusted and i know he does his job well and is a hands on guy .

I only wish I could use my own language. This is also the reason I'm never even going to try solve these things in phone with you Gordon. I'm already struggling to understand what you are writing. And yes. I read your season greeting in the end of the year, every year, where you tell that my trophies are about to be send soon. This is the thing I done every years for the past five years now. Don't feel bad if I'm not jumping of joy any more.

Thank you Aaron. This is first time in nearly five years I get to read this comprehensive report of your thoughts . Power of open forum.

For the last time. I was never intend to whine here at AR about what happened to me. I'm a patient man, waited my first buff head little over four years to arrive from Zim. I mentioned Aaron's name because he is the one to whom I paid my hunt and that's why felt he also would be obligated to share some words in public. For the first year of this nightmare he said Gordon was his trusted friend and if he say his going to send my trophies he means business. If he would ever suspected other vice he would never recommend GD in a first place. Of course even Aaron realized at some point that GD is not ok and for my disappointment he came to conclusion that there is nothing he/we can do. The fact seems to be that GD hold all the cards. Even though, I had a great hunt but trophyvice I got screwed. Only one to blame here is Gordon and it was just lesson to me that in case like this there is no one who could help me. Shit happens. The end.

My plans to go hunt lion in Africa slowly fade away as I felt shame of myself being such an thumb sucking idiot not to be able to clear this thing. See unlike many other Gordon's or Aaron's clients I most probably do my big five hunting just once in a five years. If even that.

Now that the five years was almost gone I started to looking AR's - Offered and Discounted Hunts sector again. I saw Cal Pappas thread about infamous GD. I probably made mistake by taking part of this, but when I noticed that someone still said that GD is ok, I just had to write my part of a story. And this is when people started contacting me. What good am I? I only have questions not a single answer.

I promise that if some day I see any of my trophies GD claims he still possess, I will announce it here. I'm not sure if I ever be able to completely trust people in international hunting business again though. And that's the worst thing which came out of this episode. You can't carry out overseas hunting without some amount of mutual trust.

If there is one message in this thread it is to do a proper intelligence and also outfitters should not underestimate trophy handling once the hunt is over. I have seen the whole spectrum from non-delivery to impeccable services.

Ugly

I would like Gordon and why not Aaron to confirm that I have never asked any kind of a money compensation from either of them for what has happened. And I never will. Admitting this would be nice thing these guys could do. By the time when I still was in belief that something positive actually is happening to my trophies I asked for fair offer for a lion. More or less just to keep connections open. That's all.

I have a bad feeling that after few pages more I'll be the crooked guy here. Let me be clear on this one. I'm out here simply to get my trophies. Nothing more.

I did sense from Aaron's response that he considers him as a sort of a outsider in this case. Because he did not make any profit with this one. But looking back the add he put up here on AR, and I must say it is still very tempting, I remember that Aaron's insurances made me choose GD instead the other nice offer I had at that time.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...32100588/m/614102882
This gives me right to be just a little bit sorrow also for his sake. Don't you agree.

But no hard feelings. And Gordon. If you ever gonna actually do anything that brings even one of my trophies closer to me, would you please consider giving up at least the kudu. No cites, no value to you. We pushed hard 24 hours for that one.

Gordon, why don't you at least take a picture of the kudu trophy and post/send it so this gentleman has some hope? Of course after all these years, if not tanned, The cape if there was one is probably ruined.

Lahtari you are NOT the "crooked guy" here by any means. It sounds like you are not in the US, but I have a nice cape kudu shoulder mount that is just hanging in my basement, it is not "your trophy" but if I could get it to you I will (pm me).

Bill,

That is very kind of you!

I think Lahtari is in Finland, and if he accepts your kind offer, I will be very happy to pay for the shipping.

Amazing offer Bill & Saeed!! Well done.

GD must be related to those brothers from Tanzania. Zair is one I believe...

Mike

Thanks everyone and I don't want to sound ungrateful, but looking at someone else's trophy on the wall in this case would remind me of our dear friend mr Duncan forever. Thanks but no thanks.

On the other hand, if someone of you could arrange shipping of man himself to me I would be very happy. Even better if he would be wrapped around leopard skin and have pair of ivory in his armpits. It's quite nippy here in Finland this time of a year so warm clothing is very important. Snazzy dressing makes always good first impression so what better than decent fur.

Very noble gestures from Bill & Saeed indeed.
I certainly understand you not wanting someone elses trophy, but it shows there are more GOOD people than bad in our fraternity.
If someone does ship Gordon to you as you wished, please post a photo!

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
GD must be related to those brothers from Tanzania. Zair is one I believe...

Mike

It does boggle the mind that he chose to post here in the manner that he did. What a low life.

I had a bad experience wherein my trophies were held up in Tanz. for 19 months and one was my lion. I never gave up hope even though the concession holder was not paying the fees. The lion did suffer mane loss but in the end I did get them but not before the concession holder alleged that my PH and I shot the lion by spotlight, which was a total lie. I guess he was tired of my threats of lawsuit after dozens of emails and his bullshit promises. I wasn't the only one being held hostage as two hunters from Montana had their trophies held as well.

I guess the moral of my story is to hold fast, Lahtari as they may one day appear and I sincerely hope that they do.

That concession holder recently posted a couple of hunts here and I have no idea if he is on the up and up now or not and I have not heard from any other AR poster regarding him. He has changed his company name, however.

Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
GD must be related to those brothers from Tanzania. Zair is one I believe...

Mike

It does boggle the mind that he chose to post here in the manner that he did. What a low life.

He might have gotten the wrong idea, as he asked me why AR allows such negative reports to be posted!

I told him AR also allows him the freedom to clear his name if he so wishes.

Someone needs to help this poor soul out and go gather up the trophies he is holding on to and put them in a safe place until the owners can get them.

Take the burden of all that responsibility off him.

That is if he still has them.

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
Someone needs to help this poor soul out and go gather up the trophies he is holding on to and put them in a safe place until the owners can get them.

Take the burden of all that responsibility off him.

That is if he still has them.

100% my thoughts.

And I mean why continue this if mine and I don't know how many other Gordon's clients trophies are already gone. There is no proof they still exists. No wait, correction. He said he has them and they are ready to be shipped soon. This was first in 2010, then 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014,........

Jan 2014 we were already so close that I managed to squeeze the name of his shipping agent he said is now preparing the shipment. One year's silence followed when I was rude to asked connection info of this shipping agent of his. Has anybody ever heard of Lynn Duncan Trophy Ship?

But in all seriousness, this what npd345 said is the key. Is this technically possible? Can safari operator who has screwed up his business and is unable to pay what ever the payments there is, just hand those trophies or what's left of them to someone else. How the system works down there? Or is this just so simple that I took a part of poaching rather than safari business? And that's why there is no way out for GD. Is there some easy way to inspect this.

Very classy, Bill and Saeed. Hat off to you both.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Bill,

That is very kind of you!

I think Lahtari is in Finland, and if he accepts your kind offer, I will be very happy to pay for the shipping.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Very classy, Bill and Saeed. Hat off to you both.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Bill,

That is very kind of you!

I think Lahtari is in Finland, and if he accepts your kind offer, I will be very happy to pay for the shipping.

Got to agree - Gentlemen in the old world definition.

quote:

Originally posted by Lahtari:

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
Someone needs to help this poor soul out and go gather up the trophies he is holding on to and put them in a safe place until the owners can get them.

Take the burden of all that responsibility off him.

That is if he still has them.

100% my thoughts.

And I mean why continue this if mine and I don't know how many other Gordon's clients trophies are already gone. There is no proof they still exists. No wait, correction. He said he has them and they are ready to be shipped soon. This was first in 2010, then 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014,........

Jan 2014 we were already so close that I managed to squeeze the name of his shipping agent he said is now preparing the shipment. One year's silence followed when I was rude to asked connection info of this shipping agent of his. Has anybody ever heard of Lynn Duncan Trophy Ship?

But in all seriousness, this what npd345 said is the key. Is this technically possible? Can safari operator who has screwed up his business and is unable to pay what ever the payments there is, just hand those trophies or what's left of them to someone else. How the system works down there? Or is this just so simple that I took a part of poaching rather than safari business? And that's why there is no way out for GD. Is there some easy way to inspect this.

Lahtari, so very sad to read this post. I am truly sorry this has happened to your trophies
I have a different opinion on if your booking agent has zero responsibility but than don't matter. Lynn Duncan email is Lynn@trophyship.com
I used them and I found her and Andy hunter to be honest and very helpful.
good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Lahtari:
Thanks everyone and I don't want to sound ungrateful, but looking at someone else's trophy on the wall in this case would remind me of our dear friend mr Duncan forever. Thanks but no thanks.

On the other hand, if someone of you could arrange shipping of man himself to me I would be very happy. Even better if he would be wrapped around leopard skin and have pair of ivory in his armpits. It's quite nippy here in Finland this time of a year so warm clothing is very important. Snazzy dressing makes always good first impression so what better than decent fur.

Lathari,

I understand how you wouldn't want someone else's kudu hanging on your wall for reasons yve explained...

What saddens me greatly is that you are hesitant to hunt Africa because of your past experience (can't say I wouldn't feel the same if I were in your shoes).

If you have any interest - this is an offer for you to come to me for a week - free of charge and hunt another kudu bull with me in the mountains - free of charge).

I promise that your trophy will get back to you within 3 - 9 months (depending on whether you want to have it dipped and packed or mounted). If not - I will pay for the taxidermy charges too.

quote:

Lathari,I understand how you wouldn't want someone else's kudu hanging on your wall for reasons yve explained...What saddens me greatly is that you are hesitant to hunt Africa because of your past experience (can't say I wouldn't feel the same if I were in your shoes). If you have any interest - this is an offer for you to come to me for a week - free of charge and hunt another kudu bull with me in the mountains - free of charge).I promise that your trophy will get back to you within 3 - 9 months (depending on whether you want to have it dipped and packed or mounted). If not - I will pay for the taxidermy charges too.Regards,Chris TroskieReal Hunts for Real Hunters!

MAN OH MAN WHAT A GENEROUS OFFER.
Way to go Chris!

Now that is stepping up, Chris. Kudos to you as well as Saeed and Bill. Very generous offer that promotes real character.

Dutch