This month's Magnum magazine has an interesting pict and small article on the Black-Blue wildebeest crosses. The F1 is an interesting looking critter, but some in Namibia fear that the Black Wildebeest will become impure genetically if the crosses are not eliminated.

Looks interesting. I wondered if the hybrids were fertile, and apparently, according to this article, they are...
http://www.kznwildlife.com/sit...t_Hybridization.html

Anybody know if there is really a problem here?

Presenting the new #1 SCI Bluke Wildebeest!

FWIW, I've had clients shoot crossbreeds of the Tanzanian species from time to time but none of them have had properly developed testicles. Whether it's the same with blue & black from SA, I simply don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Presenting the new #1 SCI Bluke Wildebeest!

Wendell you going to get some for Red Bluff Ranch?

Hybrids are, according to knowledgeable animal conservationist scientists, a very real and serious threat to some species. I have not seen the Magnum article [yet] but as it is I have an appointment with Free State Nature Conservation on Monday to, amongst other, discuss some issues about blue X black wildebeest crossbreeds and the genetic purity of some black wildebeest herds. It seems that in the early days of efforts to bring the black wildebeest back from the brink of extinction some "clever" but actually totally uninformed and really ignorant land owners introduced blue wildebeest bulls to "increase" the trophy size of their black wildebeest. This is now quite an issue and under serious investigation. My understanding is that in nature these would “never” – however long that is, crossbreed: It is only where the two species are fenced in an unnatural environment where such hybrids would occur.

Some other hybrids that I can think of now are blesbuck X red hartebeest and blesbuck X bontebuck. Also gemsbuck X simitar horned oryx southern impala X blackfaced impala and eland X kudu, and of course the many subspecies of sable! Others can probably add a whole list to these few that comes to mind easily. Then there is the totally separate issue of game bird hybridization! All of these hybrids are, as I understand, fertile, and it is precisely here where the danger to the genetic purity of the animals lie. The message from Free State Nature Conservation to Hunting Outfitters & PH’s is that one should be very sure that animals like bontebuck and simitar horned oryx are only hunted in “registered” genetically pure and isolated herds. I slipped up a few years ago on this, and allowed a client to shoot what was claimed to be a bontebuck from an unregistered herd. Most fortunately my client was very understanding and forgiving, incidentally an Ex USF&G official.

In short my advice would be to beg anyone seeing such a hybrid to please shoot it for the good of all. But be warned, the USA policy is to not allow the importation of such hybrid trophies. In other words I beg a favor, and maybe even a costly one, in asking to shoot these hybrids on sight, as in all probability you will not be allowed to import the trophy into USA. I have no idea what the stance of other countries on allowing hybrid trophies to be imported. Can someone help?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

quote:

Originally posted by jeff h:
Wendell you going to get some for Red Bluff Ranch?

No, they would fight with my Red Elk, Silk Deer, Zonkeys & Beefalo's.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by jeff h:
Wendell you going to get some for Red Bluff Ranch?

No, they would fight with my Red Elk, Silk Deer, Zonkeys & Beefalo's.

I was wondering where I could get my Zonkey

I am booked on Zonkey till 2012. But I will take your deposit. Can't guarantee what the price will be then ...

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
I am booked on Zonkey till 2012. But I will take your deposit. Can't guarantee what the price will be then ...

Bummer. On the bright side, maybe McKenzie will have a full Zonkey sneak by 2012.

quote:

Bummer. On the bright side, maybe McKenzie will have a full Zonkey sneak by 2012.

I am willing to bet that in the history of the english language, no one has ever put those particular words together in that order, ever.

I have a new favorite phrase "Full Zonkey sneak."

If hybrids are fertile, then it's the same critter, daddy, mommy, and sonny, no matter how ugly or pretty one of the breeds looks compared to the other one.

I can't see how one would justify preventing consensual sex between two adults, and the euthanasy of their offsprings, just based on color, shape of the nose, or any other racial peculiarity...

If the hybrids are not fertile, so what's the problem in letting them enjoy life till it's braai time???

quote:

Originally posted by Philip A.:
If hybrids are fertile, then it's the same critter, daddy, mommy, and sonny, no matter how ugly or pretty one of the breeds looks compared to the other one.

I can't see how one would justify preventing consensual sex between two adults, and the euthanasy of their offsprings, just based on color, shape of the nose, or any other racial peculiarity...

If the hybrids are not fertile, so what's the problem in letting them enjoy life till it's braai time???

The problem is that te hybrids that I mentioned are indeed fertile! [Not 100% sure of the kudu/eland though. I seem to recall that a male kudu/eland hybrid is fertile when mating with a kudu female, but not when mating with an eland. Now not even very sure if theguy was just pulling my leg?] But black X blue wildebeest are fertile, as is bles X bontebuck hybrids.

I agerr, if a hybrid is not firtile, let him/her live in peace until time to collect meat for biltong!

Jippee and yummy, the hunting season is getting real close now; only 26 days to go!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

quote:

Originally posted by Philip A.:
If hybrids are fertile, then it's the same critter, daddy, mommy, and sonny, no matter how ugly or pretty one of the breeds looks compared to the other one.

I can't see how one would justify preventing consensual sex between two adults, and the euthanasy of their offsprings, just based on color, shape of the nose, or any other racial peculiarity...

If the hybrids are not fertile, so what's the problem in letting them enjoy life till it's braai time???

The fear is that if allowed to continue, the differentiation seen in the black wildebeest would gradually disappear, as the more dominant and larger blue wildebeest characteristics would prevail.
The hybrids mentioned only occur under artificial conditions. Whether or not a "fertile hybrid" is enough to say it is not a hybrid at all is a matter of choice of definitions. I would bet that these two are much further apart genetically than the parents of the sterile hybrids that Shakari mentions as occurring in Tanzania, and that their fertility is a bit of a fluke.

Toast of Botswana
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An unusual case of a sheep-goat hybrid was reported by veterinarians in Botswana in 2000. This was called the "Toast of Botswana". The animal was born naturally from the mating of a female goat with a male sheep that were kept together.

Because of their vast genetic differences (goats have 60 chromosomes, sheep have 54 chromosomes) and presumably them belonging to different genera (goats are genus Capra, sheep are genus Ovis), sheep-goat hybrids generally die as embryos. The hybrid had 57 chromosomes, intermediate between sheep (54) and goats (60). The hybrid was intermediate between the two parent species in type. It had a coarse outer coat, a woolly inner coat, long goat-like legs and a heavy sheep-like body.

Although infertile, the hybrid had a very active libido, mounting both ewes and does when they were not in heat. This earned the hybrid the name Bemya or rapist. He was castrated when he was 10 months old because he was becoming a nuisance.

There is a detailed article in the SA Hunter magazine about the wildebeest hybrids in the feb issue and the impala and black face impala in the march issue

"This is clearly not in the interests of conservation, where the objectives are to maintain species diversity and natural evolutionary processes.
Conservationists feel so strongly about the threat of hybridization that they have taken steps to remove one of the species from nature reserves where both were inappropriately introduced, and to prevent any additional introductions of both species on the same reserve."

This sounds like a racist policy that would clearly be rejected in our PC circles if the topic were humans rather than antelopes.

eyedoc, exactly on the mark. The intention is to hybridize in our human zoo.

quote:

[Not 100% sure of the kudu/eland though. I seem to recall that a male kudu/eland hybrid is fertile when mating with a kudu female, but not when mating with an eland.

Anyone have a photo of kudu/eland cross? Sounds interesting to say the least.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
I am booked on Zonkey till 2012. But I will take your deposit. Can't guarantee what the price will be then ...

Wendell, What caliber of Zonkey can I expect to see on your place? I'd make the trip, but it's ways to go for an immature animal. I'm sure you understand

quote:

Originally posted by robncolorado:
Wendell, What caliber of Zonkey can I expect to see on your place?

Depends on which color you want.




I wouldn't sell you an immature Zonkey, they are just too cute.



This is about as good as I can do on short notice. The trophy quality is quite poor.



And now many apollogies to Steve for a complete hijacking of his thread.

Sorry Steve, Jeff H started it.

Wendell, there is a trophy Zonkey just down the road from me. I would like to use him as a riding animal--- if I could get Will to come down and break him. If it didn't work out, the admission fee to the rodeo could go towards the next hunt.

quote:

If I could get Will to come down and break him. If it didn't work out, the admission fee to the rodeo could go towards the next hunt.

This, I would like to see.

I am always game for watching someone else do something stupid, even if I have to pay for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Depends on which color you want.

Wendell, you win the prize for that one.

Does this mean you're "colorful"?

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by robncolorado:
Wendell, What caliber of Zonkey can I expect to see on your place?

Depends on which color you want.




I wouldn't sell you an immature Zonkey, they are just too cute.



This is about as good as I can do on short notice. The trophy quality is quite poor.



And now many apollogies to Steve for a complete hijacking of his thread.

Sorry Steve, Jeff H started it.

I just sent you a deposit for 2014, they oughta be fully mature by then. I'm thinkin the blue one would look nice in my trophy room. Thanks for the info.