Im planning a self guided hunt in Cameroon for Bongo. Im told I need a DG rifle and that a 9.3 (my preference) is too light. In that light whats my best bet? What is the minimum for DG and what is ammo avaialbility?

416 Rems are available with many choices of premium bullets...With reloaded ammo the 416rem can be chranked up as a real punisher on game...

Mike

416 Rem.Tremendous versatility, outstanding killer.All kinds of bullet weights and types are available.Bwana dogo

The 416 is the way I would go. More available ammo and hopefully Kimber or someone else will step up and fill the void that winchester left.

Why not just bring something like a single shot 45-70 pistol or something like that?

I would prefer a Rigby. He really said a 9.3 is light for Bongo? It seems like it would be great choice to me.

I have a .404j but if you are not a dedicated handloader, then a .416rem. might be a bit better choice. Really though, a .375h&h would do you well on a Bongo bunt & to protect you from any nasties, maybe take a forest buff. as well.

John

Who is your connection in Cameroon? Cam?

I suppose if you run into one of those ornery forest buffalo a short barreled 404J might come in handy. But for Bongo?

Whoever told you a 9.3 is too light is full of shit.

The 9.3x62 would be as light as I would go on Eland size game, but using 300grn SWIFT A FAMES and 296gr solids it would not be too light IMO. OZHUNTER

I concur with interboat and ozhunter. Bongo is not considered DG. You were probably informed to use a DG caliber to protect yourself from a run in with buff or other nasties that inhabit the same area as Bongo. 375 H&H is usually considered minimum for DG. If you were using a 30-06 for Bongo and were forced to defend yourself from a buff trying to stomp you into the turf, I don't think you'd get into trouble with the local authorities doing so. In any event, I'd practice climbing trees. That might save your butt more than a big bore rifle.

The DG rifle you were told to bring is an assault rifle....Congo can be dangerous...you say you are going unguided???? good luck.

9.3X62 is a great round. It's killed a bunch of African game!

I'm having a couple of 404 Jeffery rifles made. Mainly because I have a 450/400 3 inch DR.

416 Rem has a long great penetratiing bullet.
Either the 404 or the 416 will serve you well, however if you have a 9.3X62, no need to go shopping. . .Unless you want a new toy!

Get a 9.3x64 it is enough for any living Bongo and is sufficeint for anything the 375 is.
The x64 is a 375 performance rifle on a 98 action. Now that can't be bad.
I know I'm talking to myself, but then I'm used to it, I've been married for 30 years.

To answer your question, I would get a 416 there is much more ammunition and more rifles to choose from.

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
I would prefer a Rigby. He really said a 9.3 is light for Bongo? It seems like it would be great choice to me.

Having shot 3 in the rain forests of Sudan and never knowing what you will encounter when out for a "walk", I for one consider the 9.3 too small. Not in the sense it would be too small for bongo, but there are other encounters than could pop up.

As far as a 404 Jeffery vs a .416 Whatever, get whichever snaps you cap. If you handload, they all throw a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps, or there-abouts. I have both the Rigby and the Jeffery, and really LOVE my .404, in spite of a whole list of annoying feeding and headspace problems.

Thank all of you for your posts. Just to claify
I was advised to use a DG rifle based on other critters that might pop up unexpectedly at close quarters.

Can you tell me what problems you have? I have been inclined to get a CZ with a 20/in barrel and take it up to a 404.....but I tend not to want to fool with problems. I like things to work.....especially when its a long walk out to look for parts. Did it before and didnt think it was fun.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
As far as a 404 Jeffery vs a .416 Whatever, get whichever snaps you cap. If you handload, they all throw a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps, or there-abouts. I have both the Rigby and the Jeffery, and really LOVE my .404, in spite of a whole list of annoying feeding and headspace problems.

My problems were smith problems. I built mine on a Ruger M77, Mark II, RSM action originally in .375 H&H. I found out the hard way that getting a 404 round to feed out of a .375 magazine takes more than a little work. I should have taken the advice of folks on this board who know better and had it built on an Ultra Mag action, which already has the feed problems worked out for the 404 case.

416- of any kind except the weatherby
you can borrow my 416 AR if you want.

9,3x62 too small for bongo? to paraphrase interboat - bladderdash..

but, to tell you the truth, if the 9,3 won't do it, i would do a 458 lott

jeffe

John,

One of my hunting partners told me this...Do you want the minimum gun in your hands if something goes wrong???

Mike

John,

Could you tell us more about your self-guided hunt? If you don't want to talk about it on here, could you send me an e-mail? It's jel225@psu.edu.

A 400 grain bullet out of either is the minimum recommended as a fully capable stopping rifle, which you may need as you won't have a pro along. The .416 bore has an advantage over the .404 (actually .423) because you can get chamber inserts that allow you to shoot .410 shotgun shells. This may come in handy because you'll have to pack in all your supplies either on foot or in a dugout canoe and you can supplement your food supply. You could also get a chamber insert made for .41 mag and take smaller game without all the noise or recoil. Accuracy should be adequate at short jungle ranges

i would go for 404 because here in norway, its Norma ammo to get and i reload all of my ammo. and it has lower pressure than the 416 rem mag, and it will fit in a m-70 or 700 receiver as well .

onefunzr2:

I laughed out loud about your suggestion about learning to climb trees. My only other thought was - Why is a black powder load like the 404 being talked about at all? (please, anyone else, spare me the talk about how it is Improved" as a smokeless load. That's like saying that the bicycle is just great -ever since Reo developed an auto) Like the 45-70 fanatics I want to bury them all with wooden stakes in their hearts. (Like vampires they keep coming back from the dead!)

The .404 Jeffery wasn't "improved" as a smokeless load. It was introduced in 1910 as a smokeless round and never was a black powder load at all.

If I was going to hunt Bongo, from the videos I have seen, and the hunters I have talked to, I would use my soon to be scoped, it is with JJ right now, 450/400 double rifle.

try a .425 westley richrds.its just as good as the other two , but if you like to be a little different,its got that africa flavour with all the punch and,in a standard action.

China Fleet Sailor:

According to a quite extensive article by Keith Luckhurst,(googled on the Internet) the 404 Jeffery was introduced in 1905 (not 1910) as a "duplicate" of the 450/400 -described as a black powder load. I admit that I spoke too fast in calling the 404 a black powder load. i should have said that it was no better than any black powder load -judging from the ballistics. Small wonder that the 375 H&H made such a splash in 1912!

gerrys375,

Yes, the 450/400 was originally a black powder cartridge. It made the transition to smokeless powder, and the 404 Jeffery duplicated the smokeless cartridge's ballistics in a bolt gun. But if that means it is no better than a black powder cartridge, then by the same logic the .458 Win Mag is no better than a black powder cartridge. After all, it attempted to duplicate the ballistics of the old 450 Nitro
Express round which also was a black powder cartridge to start with.

I read that article in African Hunter. But you'll also note that the last paragraph in "Reloading the 404 Jeffery" is devoted to the fact that it is ". . . an excellent calibre for the largest and most dangerous game." It doesn't have the flat trajectory of the .375 H&H, but flat trajectory won't matter as much as the heavier bullet and greater cross section during a forest hunt in Cameroon. The bottom line is that Mr. Luckhurst has noted excellent performance in the field, and I think that John Greenlee would probably be just as happy.

While on the subject of 450/400s, some may not know that there are two different versions.

The 3.25" version was originally a BP cartridge.

The 3.00" version (aka 400 Jeffery) was designed by Jeffery @ 1896 as a smokeless powder cartridge following the development of cordite in 1889 by Sir James Dewar and Sir Frederick Abel.

Anybody have an opinion on this gun? Quality? Value for money?

Listed only as a .416 Rem Mag in Walnut and Blue.

$2,175.00

http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_rifles_main.htm

If it is a toss-up between the .416 Rigby and .416 Remington, I would go with the Remington. The cartridge can fit into a standard magnum length action and the ballists are very similar:

.416 Remington Ballistics

.416 Rigby Ballistics

What has not been said about bongo hunting is that it takes place in the worst of situations for accurate shot placement. This opinion is from books, never done this myself. It seems that bongo prefer thick moist environments with lots of cover from bamboo or understory. When you get a shot it will likely be at a small patch of orange fur through a small opening in the green. May not be in a vital area. You need to punch a big hole in it's hide in order to slow it down enough to catch up and finish it on the second shot. 30-06 is plenty to kill one if you put it throu the lungs but you need a bigger bullet to open a big hole for this, perhaps sloppy shooting scenario. It is rated as a very difficult, physically demanding type of hunt. Lots of crawling over and under and through stuff that you would rather not, trying to be silent all the way. Usually allow a month hunt to have any reasonable chance of success. That puts me out of the running for another 20 years at least. By then the availability/physically demanding parts may prohibit me from having a chance. Good hunting and let us know if you score.

jens perto a danish hunter/gunwriter used 404 on a bongo hunt and he wrote about it, cit was a very challenging hunt ,and he didnt get many chances, and those that was ,were obstructed by vegetation, but he got the bongo after several days of hard work work,

China Fleet Sailor:

Thanks for the informative reply. I went back and reread the article (which I read quite fast the first time) I guess I let my real prejudice against reviving black powder loads make me shoot my mouth off. Even at my age, I did not put brain in gear before engaging tongue - a real fault of mine since I ever learned to talk!

Don't worry about it. I also don't favor black powder cartridges. In general I think it's bad policy to use a marginal (at best) weapon simply out of nostalgia. In this case, though, these particular cartridges remain relevent because they still work. A century ago the Brits had a pretty good handle on what constituted a good cartridge for African and Indian big game hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
A 400 grain bullet out of either is the minimum recommended as a fully capable stopping rifle, which you may need as you won't have a pro along. The .416 bore has an advantage over the .404 (actually .423) because you can get chamber inserts that allow you to shoot .410 shotgun shells. This may come in handy because you'll have to pack in all your supplies either on foot or in a dugout canoe and you can supplement your food supply. You could also get a chamber insert made for .41 mag and take smaller game without all the noise or recoil. Accuracy should be adequate at short jungle ranges

I wasn't aware you could get inserts for the 416 Rigby to allow it to shoot 410 and 41 mag shells in it. Do you know where I could find these inserts or do they have to be custom made?

I'm working on it. The insert is mentioned in the writings of Cam Greig. He's got extensive experience hunting without a guide in several African countries, primarily Cameroon. He uses a .410 chamber insert and a .41 Action Express insert to fire quiet loads for small game so as not to spook larger game, elephant in particular. I e-mailed him, and he had his made by a company called MCS. Unfortunately, they've been bought out and moved away.

If I can't track them down I'm going to try and find out who manufactures the chamber inserts for companies like E. Arthur Brown. Or some other gunsmith who is a good machinist.

Cam says he had to have an insert made for his rifle because it isn't controlled round feed. The insert ensures proper headspace. He believes a CRF rifle can fire a .410 shell without an insert as the claw should hold the shell back against the firing pin. Any gunsmiths out there know if this would be a safe practice or not?