That would be great. They would make the gun very versatile.

i have one like that scoped with a leupold 1,5-5*20 vx3.its a nice gun,and the accuracy is good,but the recoil broke to optilock mounts apart after 20 rounds,i now use a german made svingmount with magnumrings(recknagel eramatic),and that is working just fine,compared with other custom-shop guns,i would say its value for money

quote:

Originally posted by WPN:
Anybody have an opinion on this gun? Quality? Value for money?

Listed only as a .416 Rem Mag in Walnut and Blue.

$2,175.00

http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_rifles_main.htm

416 WEATHERBY would be an excellant choice great for long range extremely flat shooting more flat shooting then a 375 HH and excellant knock down power.........

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
A 400 grain bullet out of either is the minimum recommended as a fully capable stopping rifle, which you may need as you won't have a pro along. The .416 bore has an advantage over the .404 (actually .423) because you can get chamber inserts that allow you to shoot .410 shotgun shells. This may come in handy because you'll have to pack in all your supplies either on foot or in a dugout canoe and you can supplement your food supply. You could also get a chamber insert made for .41 mag and take smaller game without all the noise or recoil. Accuracy should be adequate at short jungle ranges

I wasn't aware you could get inserts for the 416 Rigby to allow it to shoot 410 and 41 mag shells in it. Do you know where I could find these inserts or do they have to be custom made?

I found a company called MCA Sports/CE Bullet company in Anchorage, AK. They don't show any off-the-shelf products that will fit a .416. I just received a reply to my e-mail from the proprieter, a gent named Ace Dub. They produce chamber adapters and inserts in house and will make appropriate pistol/shotgun adapters.

Here's the contact info if any of you are interested.

MCA Sports/Ace Bullet Company
2800 West 33rd Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99517-2201
(907) 248-4913

http://www.mcace.com/

quote:

Originally posted by John Greenlee:
I have been inclined to get a CZ with a 20/in barrel and take it up to a 404.....but I tend not to want to fool with problems. I like things to work.....especially when its a long walk out to look for parts. Did it before and didnt think it was fun.

Heh, heh, shame on me for previously ignoring this thread, due to the title, as just another one of those "thirty-ought-six or two-seventy" debates.

Interesting thread. Can't wait to begin experimenting with shotgun shells in my rifles. Wonder what kind of patterns I could get just loading birdshot over a wad of Dacron filler topped off with a wax plug, in the rifle brass? Better make that a .458 WinMag.

I seriously like the idea of a "Jungle Carbine"
with a 20" barrel made from a CZ 550 Magnum chambered in 404 Jeffery. Could trim down to about 9 pounds with open sights. It will hold 5 down in the box, plus one in the chamber, a six-shooter.

The CZ 550 Magnum magazine box is perfect for the 404 Jeffery. Customize it how you like. It is a sound start for a custom rifle as good as any.

I get similarly gushy about the CZ 550 Medium for the 9.3x62mm Mauser.

There are those with sour grapes for CZ. Not me.

I also like the Winchester M70, Ruger 77MKII, Dakota 76 African, or Standard or Magnum Mauser as a basis for a "Bongo Carbine" in whichever chambering that suits it, and you, whether 9.3, .375, .416, .404, or even a .458 WM or Lott.

If you are concerned about finding suitable over-the-counter ammo in Bongo Country, better stick with .375 H&H or a .458 WinMag, with tip of the hat to Harold Wolf.

RIP, it sounds like i have to help you testfire some rifles.......

and come with new ideas and input for others aswell.

A duo of jungle carbine sets in 404 and 9,3x62 sounds good and would be fine for rifles you carry much and shoot littele, the pounds get heavier the longer the day is.

Call me a sap for tradition; but register a vote for the rigby. When Hornady ever does get off their bums and launches their rigby load the price deferential between rigby and rem will evaporate. I know there is that magnum action issue, but their are costs to join any club worth joining! Hugh

quote:

Originally posted by Hugh W:
Call me a sap for tradition; but register a vote for the rigby.

Hugh,
No offense meant, but if you are "a sap for tradition," you would want Hornady to be loading 404 Jeffery.

The 404 Jeffery started it all (for bolt actions) in 1905. The Rigby-come-lately did not arrive until 1911, beating the .375 H&H by only one year.

Many sources say the 404 Jeffery had a huge following with the common man and game department issue for control work, etc. Not so the .416 Rigby. Thank a few famous hunters and writers for romanticizing the .416 Rigby, and Ruger and Federal for awakening it from obsolete just over 15 years ago.

I used to favor the .416 Rigby over the 404 Jeffery. Then I learned a few things.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Hugh W:
Call me a sap for tradition; but register a vote for the rigby.

Hugh,
No offense meant, but if you are "a sap for tradition," you would want Hornady to be loading 404 Jeffery.

The 404 Jeffery started it all (for bolt actions) in 1905. The Rigby-come-lately did not arrive until 1911, beating the .375 H&H by only one year.

Many sources say the 404 Jeffery had a huge following with the common man and game department issue for control work, etc. Not so the .416 Rigby. Thank a few famous hunters and writers for romanticizing the .416 Rigby, and Ruger and Federal for awakening it from obsolete just over 15 years ago.

I used to favor the .416 Rigby over the 404 Jeffery. Then I learned a few things.

Ah young Grasshopper. You remember your teachings well.

Obi Wan Ka-Mickey,
Oh Grand Master of the Jeffery Knights (now that Yoda-Ray has gone over to the Dark Side), I am eternally grateful for your training in the ways of the Jeffery Force.

May the Force 404 be with you, and with me.

RIP,

I guess you have exposed me as a sap for romanticised indulgences!

Being that I do not reload, I do not have a great deal of interest at this point in learning the power of the 404 force.

I will say that the force from my rigby is quite powerful! Thanks, Hugh

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Hugh W:
Call me a sap for tradition; but register a vote for the rigby.

Hugh,
No offense meant, but if you are "a sap for tradition," you would want Hornady to be loading 404 Jeffery.

The 404 Jeffery started it all (for bolt actions) in 1905. The Rigby-come-lately did not arrive until 1911, beating the .375 H&H by only one year.

Many sources say the 404 Jeffery had a huge following with the common man and game department issue for control work, etc. Not so the .416 Rigby. Thank a few famous hunters and writers for romanticizing the .416 Rigby, and Ruger and Federal for awakening it from obsolete just over 15 years ago.

I used to favor the .416 Rigby over the 404 Jeffery. Then I learned a few things.

In all fairness the reason the .404 was more widely used than the .416 is that Jeffery released the cartridge to the trade and designed it to work in standard 98 mausers. The .416 was retained by Rigby as a proprietary cartridge and requires a magnum action.

The Jeffery was more popular, but not because it performs better in the field. The economics factor in, too. It was available in a wide range of affordable rifles with multiple sources of ammo. Naturally it was more popular than a rifle/ammo combo available only from a single high-end, low-volume manufacturer.

In the case of government game departments, I don't see widespread use of the .404 as necessarily an endorsement. Government purchasing officers generally go with the lowest bidder. It doesn't mean it would have been the personal choice of the guy carrying it.

Now things have been reversed. The Rigby is availible in affordable rifles like Ruger and CZ and there is at least some factory ammo for it. I keep hearing rumors the .404 Jeffery is going to be available but it never seems to come true. I think the scales now weigh in the Rigby's favor. But assuming equal availability of both rifles and ammo there really isn't that much difference between the two. They'll both work, and I think that's more important than what famous hunter used one or how many game departments issued the other.

About the use of the 404 Jeffery by game departments in East Africa, whatever the motivations of the purchasing officers, it didn't result in massive complaints from the end users as far as I know. Perhaps it worked, and that could be considered an endorsement. I wonder what would have happened if Harry Selby carried a 404 Jeffery?

Dear John Greenlee,

I knew Odo Willscher who did all of the original field testing of the 9.3x64 for Wilhelm Brenneke. He was a forest engineer by profession and he did it in the Camerouns while clearing coffee plantations in the 1930's.

He killed more than 300 elephant and 300 buffalo with it along with lions , at least five bongo etc. It works. He used the TUG bullet for everything except elephant and then he used solids.

Addenda

It the dim light of the forest its a good idea to have German boar hunting scope on QD mounts that return to zero. The German claw mounts and EAW mounts, specially made for heavy recoiling rifles, are ideal. I am told the strongest crosshairs are the number 4. You can pop them on at dawn and dusk while waiting for bongo at salt licks.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
About the use of the 404 Jeffery by game departments in East Africa, whatever the motivations of the purchasing officers, it didn't result in massive complaints from the end users as far as I know. Perhaps it worked, and that could be considered an endorsement. I wonder what would have happened if Harry Selby carried a 404 Jeffery?

Sure it worked. It just didn't work better. The popularity of the .404 over the .416 Rigby was really driven by economics.

One rifle works about as well as the other but if one chambering is more readily available, cheaper to feed, and has a greater selection of components it'll win the popularity contest. These factors used to work in the .404's favor. Now they don't. At least in my neck of the woods .416 Rigby rifles, ammo, and components are more affordable and more widely available.

That doesn't make the .404 Jeffery a bad choice. If Harry Selby had hunted with one, then maybe Robert Ruark would have written about it. Then maybe Ruger and Federal would have resurrected the .404 instead and I would happily own one. It just didn't work out that way.

RIP

Can you stuff a 404 into a medium action 550 CZ effectively?

China Fleet Sailor,
All you say is true. Just the facts, and I cannot differ. Having used them both, on cape buffalo, water buffalo, or bison, there is no difference in lethality between the two. How can there be?

My .416 Rigby loads:
380 grain GSC FN at 2509 fps
and
350 grain Barnes X at 2700 fps

My 404 Jeffery loads:
380 gr NF SP at 2526 fps
and
340 grain NF SP at 2700 fps

Just the way I like them. Others may differ. However, the 404 Jeffery does grow on ya.

John Greenlee,
I am sure you could do it, but what a silly thing to do when the 550 Magnum is so perfect for it. There lies the charm: 5 down in the box with no effort nor expense, nor weakening of the action, in the 550 Magnum action, 404 Jeffery.

I would not be comfortable equaling the .416 Rigby with a 404 Jeffery built from the standard/medium length action. To heck with the Selby Rigby on a standard Mauser. You know that one was fed a diet of 400 to 410 grainers at about 2300 fps only, for chamber pressures around 40K psi.

A 404 Jeffery built on a standard Mauser or CZ Medium action would be best sticking to no more than 2200 fps with 400 grainers.