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If I have something to put my back against then a bipod is incredibly solid when used the way steve describes pulling the sticks towards you. Over all the tripod is better but needs a bit of care when deploying to avoid to much noise or scraping of the third leg. It may not be such an issue in Africa but on our deer species they are up and away at any strange noise. I used the bog pod for a few years until I put it down in Scotland and forgot its location. I think it is the best set of sticks out there bar none. Go for the version with the twist lock limbs though. Rgds, Ki | |||
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Not surprisingly, Saeed and Shakari nailed it. Two sticks are easier, especially if you don't have a tracker to deploy them -- and they are nearly as steady if you lean into them. Three sticks are generally steadier (unless they are made out of too thin, to flexible sticks, which has been known to happen). With three stick sticks, I'd set them a bit higher, but still lean in. As many have said, your sticks are definately set too low. | |||
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Referring back to the original post: "I wasn't perfect at 100 on an 8" steel plate and worked on technique all day." I don't want to come across as nitpicky or critical, but the original poster has been a good sport about looking for advice, and I am sure, genuinely wants to improve. 8" @ 100 yards should be mostly doable offhand, and even with less than perfect technique should be pretty much a sure thing from sticks. If you're not hitting consistently I'm not sure adjusting tripod height or changing foot position is going to make a dramatic improvement. It may be the rifle isn't sighted in, or your trigger control needs practice, as it does for all of us. I know several world champion rifle and pistol shooters and they tell me they never stop practicing trigger control. A few thousand careful dry fires plus as much live fire as you can manage (with air rifle or .22 if nothing else) might make a big difference. But the advice on sticks from pegleg, shakari, Saeed and others is rock solid! | |||
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I used bi-pods and still do, made from heavy dowels. For better stability, I have drilled a hole in the bottom of each leg, big enough to take a 75 mm [3 "] length of a 150 mm [6 "] heavy nail so that 35 mm is protruding. Instant grip with no movement. Makes a good prodder as well?  | |||
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Actually the stick height made the difference. Shoulder high or just below ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Good man. _______________________ | |||
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Hi All This is great topic and important skill which is often neglected and its importance is not appreciated till the hunter is actually on a hunt. Things often go pear shaped first until the hunter gets the hang of the "Shooting Sticks" (SS). The skills of using SS's applies not only to the actual animal being hunted or wounding or wasted precious hunting time BUT may also have further reaching consequences. For instance if you're on a cat hunt and need bait urgently to either replenish a hard hit bait urgently from some brute (perhaps even on the last day or two of the hunt..) or bait a smoking hot location. Miss or wound that Zebra or Impala and you may very loose that one only opportunity at a cat that you've already put a great amount of time and effort into. Some hunters don't realise the often further reaching consequences of a fluffed shot! Not to get into a contest over which is better., I mainly use three sticks as they are more stable, can stand alone and besides its what I'm used to using. Besides what the rest of you have picked out from the original picture, stance, height of the sticks etc.. I differ slightly with the placement of left hand (for right handers) which effects the way the rifle is rested on the sticks. I find that if you place a your left hand in front of the V, formed by the sticks (like in the picture), the rifle pivots in the sticks. So this is how I do it, though it may not work for big doubles. Deployment of the sticks. (much overlooked) 1) Short stick in front, place it on the ground. 2) Holding the other two, each one hand, take one step back (or swing the front stick out elegantly in front of you) and simultaneously spread the the sticks placing the legs on the ground. Bottom of the V Approximately shoulder height will do. With the left hand push them down to secure. Setting them a little lower (2"-4") is better than too high. In a crunch you can make a shot from lower rather than higher positioning. This way if they're too low hold, the sticks around the "neck" (where they are bound by inner tube) and lift slightly to perfect the height. Note there are obviously things to consider like the terrain or the ground. Soft sand vs Hard etc.. Shooting (right handers, lefties do the opposite) Assuming the correct stance etc... 1)Place the rifle in the V. 2)Grab the left stick with your left hand using your pinky, fourth and middle fingers just below where the sticks are joined. Your index finger and your thumb form a U. The U should be the same height as as the bottom of the V formed by the sticks so that the forend rests in your "U". Grip the forend with you thumb and index "U". This way you can grip the forend firmly and lean slightly into the sticks. The rifle doesn't pivot and you have a firm grip on the rifle. The short stick being out front allows you to lean into the sticks and allows your feet free movement without accidental kicking the short stick... For longer shots or to give the shooter more stability I stand next the hunter (right hand side for right hander) reach across and grip the sticks one in each hand and bend over (HAHA) a bit let the hunter use my back for an elbow rest. Works really well but hunters soon get spoilt and want the support for every shot! With practice this is process is quick. If you're hunting solo then a 3 legged Sticks are not ideal especially if you have to set in a hurry and carry. In the Safari context they work very well if of course they are setup quickly and correctly by your PH or trusted and experienced tracker. Good hunting Leon Have a look at these thou I feel they would be better suited to longer ranger and not ideal for shorter ranges www.deutschejagdzeitungshop.de | |||
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Do you guy have any pictures of these different grips you deploy? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Ted, For me gripping the sticks where all three legs come together with my fist and sliding it up so I can grip the rifle's forend with my forefinger and thumb works best. It allows me to control the sticks and the rifle in recoil. Sorry. No pix of this. Wowo essentially said the same thing in his post which I missed. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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That grip has worked best for me ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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This worked best this evening Shooting 4" square gong at 70 yards on 4X with standard velocity 22LR   ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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That's a lovely .22 rifle you have there. | |||
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Ted, the last picture you posted is the grip I use on sticks. If I may offer a couple other suggestions: 1. Straighten the left arm, use it as a stiffener for you upper body. Triangles are natures stiffest structures. 2. Feet apart more - not such a big deal with a 22, more important with the big stuff. 3. Lean in a bit, using that straight left arm against the sticks. If you have the time and the funds, may I suggest a bit of school? SAAM Safari class is a very good polish upper before you go on the hunt of a lifetime. Sticks, reaction drills, reloading drills and enhanced marksmanship skills are all a part of the deal there. If your equipment is capable ( and you will learn that also) you can be hitting the lethal zones well out to 500 yards, from sticks, reliably. You will also learn where your weak points are, and what shots you are likely to miss. As an aside, you can also use sticks sitting, kneeling, squating, once your eyes are opened to all improvised positions, you can get very creative. I shot a hippo last year, from sticks, off the side of a very uneven bank, with the rifle hanging from its sling, from the top of a Primos set of sticks. It was the only way I could figure out how to be stable for a long shot, for a long period of time, when I had few short seconds to get on, and shoot. Also, learn to use any type of sticks, trees, hood of a jeep, whatever is available. A backpack in your lap, is an amazing tool. This is a 600 yard shot at a 9" gong. Bag under the buttstock arm, sticks, tree for backup, very steady.  Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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This of course is a particularly good way to shoot a .505 Gibbs or a .460 Weatherby.  | |||
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Hunters will almost always sight in their rifles upon arrival in camp but overlook/ignore shooting sticks. After sighting in, I like to get the sticks and show the PH what height I like. This decreases fumbling in the field. BTW, I like to have the sticks placed a bit low and as I come into position I pull the sticks up to the perfect height with the off-hand. Raising sticks is quick and easy---lowering sticks that are too high is irritating. | |||
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Thank you ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I have a pair of tripod sticks from long grass safari, about $100. they have leather at the top, double and .375 rest comfortably in the top. the sticks break in half with brass connectors to easily fit in checked luggage. Take them on every safari. I dry fire practice off of them in my living room looking out and aiming in the back yard or lake. I have found that one hand on the stick rifle junction helps. The other is very little pressure on them. stand equal weight on both feet. don't lean on the sticks, gently rest the rifle on them and they are pretty darn steady. practice will tighten the groups Kodiak 2022 Namibia 2019 Namibia 2018 South Africa 2017 Alaska Brown Bear 2016 South Africa, 2016 Zimbabwe 2014 South Africa 2013 Australia 2011 Alberta 2009 Namibia 2007 Alberta 2006 | |||
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The other reason to do this is to see how good his sticks actually are. I had a set in Namibia fall apart on me. It also gives the PH a chance to see you have used sticks before. Joyce insisted to Andrew after shooting off his truck hood to check sight in that she wanted to shoot off his sticks. She shot twice off the sticks and he called the second shot a total miss of the box at 100 yards. When they walked down to the target she had hit the same bullet hole.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Someone took this shot of me last year in Zimbabwe shooting a buffalo..... I use a sling, and one must remember if you are shooting a big bore rifle to keep control of it you must hold on to the rifle itself with your off hand. This method is dead rock steady......... using sling and sticks in combination....  Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I was assisting in a rifle class at LSU many years ago and there was a young woman who was punching the smallest groups you could. I mean she was shooting great. The main instructor came up to her, "corrected" her position and the young woman couldn't hit the target. A person has to shoot in the position that works for them. My experience, shooting off the sticks, getting ready for my second trip to Africa, I found my best grouping was shooting from the position displayed in this photo. To me it demonstrates a bipod position aligning the rifle on a tripod, very stable indeed. I believe in results, not form. | |||
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That sir, is funny as hell, and I appreciate the humor! No, of course it is not for a rifle with beastly recoil, it was to offer ideas about how creative one can be with sticks and improvised positions. Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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tedthorn, I think you're on the right track. I just got back from a 10 day Namibia trip, and I found that everything "clicked" as I stood more upright, much like you did in your last pics you posted. I'd stick with that and you'll be golden. Good Luck! | |||
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The below picture of the green sticks shows the string I used to hold the sticks at a fixed distance. (the string has now been removed as I do not use these sticks anymore as they flex & are unstable). I found that the string across the 3 sticks ensures a consistent positioning of the sticks on level ground. This ensured that I always maintained the same height and posture when mounting the rifle.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Shot my -06 today and the upright stance and extended stiff left arm was the most stable Thanks to all for all the tips I received. In just one week I have gained a lot more confidence with 4 more weeks to go ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I once wrote a paper on shooting sticks. Here it is: Anyone that has had the good fortune to hunt in Africa has had experience with shooting sticks. This experience is not always pleasant. I have seen them cause clean misses and poor hits. I have only been to Africa eight times, but I have been shooting all my life and I build long range rifles. Here is what I have learned. It’s not the sticks fault as much as the situation. When you are asked by the PH to make a shot using the shooting sticks he has set up for you it may be the first time you have shot off his sticks. This is a recipe for disaster. A good friend of mine and I were hunting in Tanzania and he wanted a Baboon. We found a large Dog and after a great stalk the PH set up his sticks at about 110 yards. He was shooting a .416 Remington. Larry is a very good shot. Most of his targets at home, with that gun, are within 1 MOA at any distance out to 500 yards. That’s the max length of our range. Using our PH‘s, sticks he squeezed off the shot aiming at the center of the baboon’s chest. Unfortunately the shot went 7 or 8 inches high killing the baboon instantly by removing the top of his skull and ruining the trophy. Had Larry been able to practice with those sticks and learn what he needed to do to make them work for him this would not have happened. My first trip to Africa was to Namibia and I had the same experience on the first Warthog I had ever tried to shoot. It was 325 yards and I thought I was steady and squeezed the trigger, the shot went over his shoulders by a couple of inches. Needless to say, that was the last we saw of him. As any serious target shooter will tell you resting your gun on a hard rest will cause it to shoot high. One of the bigger reasons for poor shooting off sticks is they are set up wrong. If a 5’6” PH sets the sticks up for a 6’4” client the client is going to have to bend over too far straining the back muscles. (This also happened to Larry) You can never be comfortable in this position so you will rush the shot and most times you won’t be lucky and hit where you are aiming. It’s even worse, as in my case, when the PH is tall and the client is short. I would have to spend too much time adjusting the sticks and the shot would disappear. “Well if you don’t like sticks that much, why bother with them.” It’s a good question. Quite often the PH wants you to use them because his experience has shown him that most people will shoot better with them than offhand. “If you are hunting in the part of Africa that has brush and trees, and most of it does, why can’t you use a tree or bush as a rest?” One truism in Africa is “If it’s alive it has teeth, horns or thorns”. You most likely aren’t going to be able to use any natural rest. You also need to be high enough to get over the 2 or 3 foot high grass and brush, so prone won’t work. This is why you see shooting sticks in Africa. “Okay so you need to use them. What can I do, 9000 miles away, to make this work?” As in all endeavors it’s practice, practice, practice. Build yourself some sticks out of bamboo or saplings. I have made them out of ½”EMT tubing. You can also buy some from the large sporting goods stores that are collapsible. They need to be sturdy or they won’t be steady. My favorite is made out of bamboo. They are light and sturdy with a leather sling for the rest. Once you have a set of sticks you like, practice with them….a lot. Learn to adjust the sticks to your height quickly. Once you have a technique down, when you get to Africa, show the PH how you like the sticks set. They will work with you on setting you up quickly. Use the sticks when sighting in your rifle for Africa and in Africa. The PH or the trackers are not going to carry the shooting bench into the field so there is little reason to use it while practicing at home.. I like the sticks set low with two legs out front and one leg back. I set my hand in the sticks with the gun. My hand is between the sticks and the gun, this eliminates the hard surface and keeps the gun from shooting high. I then move forward with my gun shouldered, this raises the gun up dragging the trailing leg. Once I am at the right height I am solid and ready to make the shot. Most Ph‘s set the sticks up quickly by throwing one leg out forward and setting two behind. This means you must back up to get the proper shooting height, I find it awkward. I don‘t back up with a gun, I lean into it. That is just the way I do it. You will find what works best for you. As with all sports, there is no substitute for practice. I practice with my sticks and I take them to Africa. I made them out of Bamboo (from Menard’s garden shop) . I made a joint in them similar to a two piece pool cue. They fit in my gun case (Tuffpak) and weigh less than 3#. The tracker that has to carry them likes the light weight. There are good ones on the market. The biggest thing is having them strong enough to be steady. Keep your head down and follow through……good advice in any sport…..Tom Parrott SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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http://www.southwickshootingsupplies.com/index.html Probably a bit fiddly for some DG situations but used a lot here for deer. Might be useful for plains game. Very solid indeed and I like that it can be used seated to get over long heather/grasses. | |||
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Thanks Tapper for your report. I still notice only three or four of us adhere to the technique of NOT putting the rifle on a HARD surface. I ask everyone just to give this a trial (shooting with rifle in cupped hand between the rifle and the rest). Six of us, who hunt Africa and use sticks of some sort, had our semi annual shoot out in the desert a couple of weeks ago. Everyone had their sticks and I was the "only" one shooting with "hand under rifle". I mentioned this and the other five guys gave it a try. Guess what? Now there are six of us using this technique. Give it a go, if you don't like it fine, go back to your method. I let the other five shoot my 'trash' Sabatti Double Rifle and my R8 Blaser. All gave a  to both rifles.  Larry Sellers SCI(International))Life Member Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter R8 Blaser DRSS
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I like both bi & tri-pod sticks & practice with both. When I was learning to shoot off sticks I did not even know this wonderful site existed, therefore I was on my own to learn. Spent many months burning lots of ammo trying to figure out what would work for me. I have read articles where some say they are as steady on sticks as they are off the bench, I never found that spot. What I learned was that I had to figure out my steadiest position & then know when to squeeze the trigger. I seemed to be able to get my vertical steady, but my horizontal still had some movement to it. Don't know that it matters, but I'm a lefty & found that if I allowed my cross hairs to start to the right of the target & move them to the left, as I acquired the target, squeeze the shot off, I had better groups. Just my 2 cents worth. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Larry Do you wear a glove with the underhand grip? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Ted - yes I do if at possible. It's one of the very thin leather batters gloves. I still use this hold even if the glove isn't in place. Let me know what you think. Larry Sellers | |||
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I will try it tonight and get back ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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If the barrel is free floating, there is no problem putting the forend directly on the sticks. I have been using it this way for many years. I did not see anyone mention the fact that sometimes one has to be able to shoot quickly. This can bring quite interesting results, especially if one has been running for a couple of miles just before the shot. Once in Matetsi, we saw a nice kudu bull walking far away. WE ran to get ahead of him. And we had to climb a few hills on the way. Eventually we got to about 300 yards to hi8m, and he was just about to get into some thicket on a hill top. We were on top of another hill. Roy put up the sticks, saying "there he is!" And sticking his fingers into his ears waiting for the shot. I looked through the scope as I was panting. The view from the scope was as if one was riding a truck with no suspension, on one of Dar's pot holed roads. In fact, I am not sure I would have been able to hit the hillside the kudu was on, let alone the kudu, which disappeared into the thicket. "He is gone! You were too slow to shoot!" was Roy comment!! | |||
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I had a pair come apart with a buffalo we intended to shoot facing us. I lifted the rifle out of the sticks while the tracker quickly bound the sticks back together with the innertube. All the while, the buffalo looked on. Darwin at work I guess. That said, it was mostly an offhand shot; I didn't put a whole lot of weight on the sticks. | |||
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That looks like a rock steady way to shoot a big bore off sticks As Saeed has said a rifle that is free floated doesn't need to be cradled on sticks....I like to use a laminated or wood stocked rifle for Africa now and you don't get any harmonic problems with those stocks if free floated. Generally I find the biggest problem for most people using sticks is lateral movement....they sway behind the sticks to a greater or lesser degree.....my solution is to use my free hand to grasp the nearest leg of the sticks in a straight arm brace. With that set up and sticks made from heavy material I have shot game out to 400+ yards. But it will NOT work on a really big bore as the rifle will torque too much. The other way to use sticks is in the sitting position, especially on a downhill slope.......I was taught this by my PH in Namibia. It's the steadiest way to shoot period. IF you have the time to set up correctly. | |||
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Ted, I have to say all your hard work and experimentation will result in good shooting and nice animals in the salt in Africa. Good on you. I was in Namibia last November with 5 blokes from Oz.........I warned them about the problems with shooting from sticks. Not ONE practised with them before the hunt and it was a debacle!! Bloody Australians | |||
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My first Big Bore & I have been practicing off sticks for the first time in my life for the last year or so. So far about 200+ rounds of the 416 Rigby & 100+ of the 9.3X62. I am definitely making good progress over the last 3 or 4 months. I am able to keep 6 rounds of solids & softs in a composite group of about 4 or 5 inches at 50 meters. When I started, I was getting only about 75% on the target - A4 sheet! I am not that bad a shot - but the heavy recoil & the stick do take getting used to. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Unlike small bores, hold the rifle down. Grip the forend and hold it down. Don't just let the rifle rest on the sticks and squeeze off a round like you would wih a small calibre. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Milo Shanghai: http://www.southwickshootingsupplies.com/index.html Probably a bit fiddly for some DG situations but used a lot here for deer. Might be useful for plains game. Very solid indeed and I like that it can be used seated to get over long heather/grasses.[/QUOTE Milo, Cant get your link to open. What sticks are flagged in it I could be doing with a new set for sitting and standing.jc | |||
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At the rate your'e burning powder through that 416 you'll probably need a new barrel by the time you go on your hunt.  | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Shooting off sticks.....asking for suggestions please
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