I've screwed up shots just like anyone else (I have the whole sorted mess described in detail in the next book) but banging away by the PH at some animal just to hasten the return to camp and beer just ain't right.

I give up. If you want the PH shooting the animals you pay for so be it.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Well, I don't agree. Under the supposition that the PH never wants to take any chances, then he will always be shooting, no matter what

I cannot understand why anyone would go to hunt dangerous game and expect the PH to shoot the instant after he does.

Will you must have a better memmory than me. I don't remember ONE person on here espousing that every time a dangerous animal is hunting the PH should imediately follow the hunters shot for safety purposes. You did the math on that one! What the more reasonable of us are saying is that it's unfair, unsafe, and unreasonable to tell your PH under no circumstances will you shoot! The idea that he can't shoot if he feels the animal is in danger of being lost or if someone could be killed is ridiculous. The idea that your money or pleasure should come before the lives of the PH and trackers is ridiculous. I can only hope that people haven't thought this through and that no one is actually that selfish and self centered! I do wonder though!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

The ultimate being a butt head is being willing to needlessly risk someone else's life for your pleasure.

Brett

Brett

You are "needlessly risking the lives" of the entire crew by going on a DG hunt, are you not?

After all, there is really no "need" for you to try to kill a buffalo.....

The PH knows what he is signing up for. That is why PHs get paid more for DG than PG.



This whole thread is turning to BS. The PH should shoot if he feels that it is absolutely necessary, otherwise he should hold his fire.

If a client "requests" that his PH backs him up he should sell his guns and take up golf. Maybe the PH should reply, "if you want me to 'back-you-up' you should save yourself the pain of the recoil and just let me shoot it for you."

And before anyone gets upset, I am not talking about the PH taking a shot when the client flubs-it. I am talking about these "back-up shots" that are taken immediately after the client shoots without regard to the effect of the client's shot.

What is this place coming to?????????

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Well, I don't agree. Under the supposition that the PH never wants to take any chances, then he will always be shooting, no matter what

I cannot understand why anyone would go to hunt dangerous game and expect the PH to shoot the instant after he does.

Will you must have a better memmory than me. I don't remember ONE person on here espousing that every time a dangerous animal is hunting the PH should imediately follow the hunters shot for safety purposes. You did the math on that one! What the more reasonable of us are saying is that it's unfair, unsafe, and unreasonable to tell your PH under no circumstances will you shoot! The idea that he can't shoot if he feels the animal is in danger of being lost or if someone could be killed is ridiculous. The idea that your money or pleasure should come before the lives of the PH and trackers is ridiculous. I can only hope that people haven't thought this through and that no one is actually that selfish and self centered! I do wonder though!

Brett

"I don't remember ONE person on here espousing that every time a dangerous animal is hunting the PH should imediately follow the hunters shot for safety purposes."

Well look at Dave's post, he said the two clients in question requested back-up.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Both clients in question had requested backup shots-both weeks-both animals.

"What the more reasonable of us are saying is that it's unfair, unsafe, and unreasonable to tell your PH under no circumstances will you shoot!"

OK Brett, please show me where anyone said that it is alright to tell the PH, "under no circumstances will you shoot!"


It is funny how these arguments always get twisted up beyond recognition.


To make my position clear:
No one should tell a PH that he is not to shoot regardless of the circumstances.
No PH should back up a clients shot unless he has reason to believe the shot was bad.
Anyone who "requests" immediate backup(unless there are extenuating circumstances) is a skirt wearing sissy.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

The ultimate being a butt head is being willing to needlessly risk someone else's life for your pleasure.

Brett

Doesn't all DG hunting fit this description?

That is why when shooting a trophy bull I always take a heart shot first. At that point he is your bull so let the lead fly. Ive only shot three out of eight elephants in the head and they did drop like a rock. The other five went less than 100 yards. A brain shot is dramatic however if you miss it is easy to see. The average hunter on the outdoor channel who tries the brain misses. If you can live with that then good on you. There was a PH from Botswana who posted here a year or so back who claimed 80% or there abouts, of clients fail to make a brain shot. Hell I have seen Boddington blow that one several times.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
You are "needlessly risking the lives" of the entire crew by going on a DG hunt, are you not?.......The PH should shoot if he feels that it is absolutely necessary, otherwise he should hold his fire.

That's their profession that they chose. So they get to decide weather their life is worth risking. The difference is when someone says "no shots under any circumstances" they are deciding to NEEDLESSLY further endanger people's lives including the trackers who are unarmed! That said I totally agree with the last part of your quote above. I would welcome any PH to shoot an animal on my hunts if he feels it is absolutely necessary. Otherwise I'd prefer to do the shooting.

Brett

Jason,

Off the top of my head Will and Lane have either on this thread or others both stated that under no circumstances should their PH shoot and that if the PH ever shoots the hunt is a complete failure.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by dla69:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

The ultimate being a butt head is being willing to needlessly risk someone else's life for your pleasure.

Brett

Doesn't all DG hunting fit this description?

Fair enough. I do see a difference though. Someone choosing to risk their own life by choosing to be a PH or tracker is THEIR choice. A client making decisions about the hunt that needlessly adds further risk to the lives of the trackers and PH without their say is a totally different story! I suppose they could tell the client no, but how realistic is that in a service industry like this. How often do PHs take risks that they would prefer not to because the client has a wild hair up their butt? I don't know, but I'm sure it happens. How likely do you think it is that a tracker will have the guts to tell the PH or client no if they really don't want to do something? Do you think they'd keep their job? Hunting dangerous game should be about accepting some level of personal risk in the persute of the animal. It should not be about placing risk on others without their say if further risk can reasonably be avoided.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
To make my position clear:
No PH should back up a clients shot unless he has reason to believe the shot was bad.

A brain shot that misses the brain, is a bad shot. By your own logic, a back up is warranted.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
To make my position clear:
No PH should back up a clients shot unless he has reason to believe the shot was bad.

A brain shot that misses the brain, is a bad shot. By your own logic, a back up is warranted.

There are missed brain shots and then there are missed brain shots. If you are using enough gun a missed brain shot will knock down an elephant and there is no need for the PH to start shooting as there is then time to correct the mess.

When using baby guns (been there) things can get ugly and yeah maybe the PH is justified.

But it is not the point. A PH shouldn't shoot routinely no matter what the circumstance.

You are putting words in my mouth again. One more time, and I am confiscating your hall monitor badge.

What I said was: "If the PH has to shoot I consider the hunt a failure.". I stand by that.

I NEVER said he could or should not shoot under ANY circumstances.

The PH has only one legitimate reason to shoot MY animal. That is because I screwed up the initial shot. I consider that, under what ever circumstances; an abject failure on MY part. Are we clear on that issue? Good.

If I anchor/kill my animal when I shoot, it is absolutely NOT the PH's place to fire his rifle. That is a failure on his part. If he wishes to hunt game animals, he should take two weeks off and go hunting on his own. I did not ask for a chaperone. I paid what I assumed was a professional hunter a tremendous amount of money to take me where I could see the animal I am interested in and position ME to kill it.

After I shoot, he has only one acceptable reason to shoot. To keep that animal from killing me or someone else. If I did not want to kill all of my game by myself, I'd buy a good DVD and have somebody PhotoShop me into the footage with the dead animal.

Do you have anything to add to this post?

Blather aside, this is what is the major problem with too many (and one is too many) PH outfits today. They want to get you in as quick as possible, for the maximum number of days at a fat daily rate, and then get all of your list killed by suppertime the first or second day. I am there to experience Africa on an intimate basis that only comes from slogging thru the jess, day after day, and stalking enough animals to pick one that suits me. I want away from the rat race... I want My Africa, the way Selous, and Lyell, and Blunt, and Taylor, and Harry Selby did it with their clients.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
To make my position clear:
No PH should back up a clients shot unless he has reason to believe the shot was bad.

A brain shot that misses the brain, is a bad shot. By your own logic, a back up is warranted.

There are missed brain shots and then there are missed brain shots. If you are using enough gun a missed brain shot will knock down an elephant and there is no need for the PH to start shooting as there is then time to correct the mess.

When using baby guns (been there) things can get ugly and yeah maybe the PH is justified.

But it is not the point. A PH shouldn't shoot routinely no matter what the circumstance.

I was not referring to men hunting with guns for men, men that follow Pondoro's admonition, that an elephant gun needs to be in a caliber big enough to knock an elephant down even if it misses the brain. Men like . . . , well you get the drift.

I was referring to the hunt on TAA. The ele was not brained, was still on its feet and was starting to turn away. That is a classic case that calls for a back up.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
You are putting words in my mouth again. One more time, and I am confiscating your hall monitor badge.

What I said was: "If the PH has to shoot I consider the hunt a failure.". I stand by that.

I NEVER said he could or should not shoot under ANY circumstances.

The PH has only one legitimate reason to shoot MY animal. That is because I screwed up the initial shot. I consider that, under what ever circumstances; an abject failure on MY part. Are we clear on that issue? Good.

If I anchor/kill my animal when I shoot, it is absolutely NOT the PH's place to fire his rifle. That is a failure on his part. If he wishes to hunt game animals, he should take two weeks off and go hunting on his own. I did not ask for a chaperone. I paid what I assumed was a professional hunter a tremendous amount of money to take me where I could see the animal I am interested in and position ME to kill it.

After I shoot, he has only one acceptable reason to shoot. To keep that animal from killing me or someone else. If I did not want to kill all of my game by myself, I'd buy a good DVD and have somebody PhotoShop me into the footage with the dead animal.

Do you have anything to add to this post?

Blather aside, this is what is the major problem with too many (and one is too many) PH outfits today. They want to get you in as quick as possible, for the maximum number of days at a fat daily rate, and then get all of your list killed by suppertime the first or second day. I am there to experience Africa on an intimate basis that only comes from slogging thru the jess, day after day, and stalking enough animals to pick one that suits me. I want away from the rat race... I want My Africa, the way Selous, and Lyell, and Blunt, and Taylor, and Harry Selby did it with their clients.

Rich
DRSS

Unless you pay a very hefty price in terms of time "gaining" experience on the ground in Africa, you do not get "MY Africa". What you read in books by the authors you note does not exist anymore. The costs and the business aspect has changed all of that - along with the governments and clients. You can hike and slog all you want, but the cost of going on a 3 month walk-about is pretty steep.

You pay the PH to lead you to the game, point out the game, tell you if the game is "good", fix the truck, organize the staff and handle the details that allow all of us a sniff of Africa. If in his judgement he needs to shoot - so be it. It is not a failure in any sort if he shoots. If you are hunting DG and you do not make a killing shot, then he must shoot. If the critter runs off, you may not be at risk but he will be at risk the next time he goes out. You were quick to hero worship the poor bloke (Steve Kok) that got killed by a buff while picking up snares yesterday. Same thing can happen if your PH does not shoot. You are paying for him to look out for you as you cannot look out for yourself in the bush. Let him do his job.


Ask your buddy Boddington his opinion on this. I believe his cohort at Chifuti shoots a follow up shot pretty regularly on CB's buffs.

You may need to differentiate between "hunters" and "vacationers". There are quite a few folks that take a vacation in the literal terms as a safari. They really need a back up.
It would be good to suggest most folks on this forum view a safari as a quest and a adventure and are planning well in advance for the trip; Shooting skills, physical conditioning, game selection. That is half the fun along with the anticipation.
I doubt these PH's necessarily lump all their clients together.

EZ

Ok. this is really interesting.

I am planning a buff. hunt for me and my father in about a year. We are both beginners but sure as hell do not want anyone to shoot the buffs for us.

So, Can someone state what firms, PHs to be avoided if you want to shoot the game by yourself!!!

and don't mention MS please............

MY thoughts; 99+% of the PH's out there will want you to check your rifle's zero when you get to camp. That thing about scopes perhaps shifting impact on the flight. I believe they want to see you shoot.
I took my 450 Dakota (rechambered 458 WM CZ) Cape Buffalo hunting with CM Safaris in northern Zimbabwe in December of 2008. I shoot cast bullets mostly, I can make them cheap, and do speed drills for practice. I had a 500gr gas check mold, and I got a load at 2100fps that I shot ten rounds a day, two or three days a week, about eight months worth.
Four hundred rounds later, I was ready, and then the hunt fell into my lap around Thanksgiving.
I could hold four shots under four inches at two hundred yards with 500gr bullets at 2470fps.

That will keep your PH out of the shoot, if you show him that skill.
I would suggest a 375 H&H if you or your Father are at all recoil sensitive. If you are a rifle nut like me, a 416 Rigby would be awesome.
Shoot what you can learn to shoot fast and accurately. Then practice, the two pf you.

Good hunting.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Goldeneye:
Ok. this is really interesting.

I am planning a buff. hunt for me and my father in about a year. We are both beginners but sure as hell do not want anyone to shoot the buffs for us.

So, Can someone state what firms, PHs to be avoided if you want to shoot the game by yourself!!!

and don't mention MS please............

Hunt with whoever you like.

Just tell him in advance that if he fires a shot without your permission, he pays the trophy fee.

Tiger has missed big putts in majors. Emmet Smith fumbled in Super Bowls. Willy Mays dropped fly balls. Trump blew business deals and Dave Fulson has missed, shot poorly, and even wounded in a career pretty well dedicated to Africa the last 15 years , and I don't mean a safari every other year or so. And Rich will too if he continues to hunt there. Each of us will. You play long and hard at anything you ARE going to cock up ! The guy who has not has not done the days... Period. The experienced guys on AR will back me 100% on this. Each of us has to play as we see fit and can live with. I am happy to offer the help, or accept the help of a insurance shot. If you feel differently so be it. But I hope your wounded buffalo does not kill me one day when I blunder into him .

Guys,

As you can see from Goldeneye's post people do get the wrong impression sometimes from what they read here. PH's in general do NOT routinely back up a client. In fact you could go on a great many safaris without the PH ever even raising his rifle let alone firing at an animal. Personally I think if a PH believes that you have hit any animal badly he should shoot if he has the opportunity particularly if your hunintg DG. Of course he should also shoot if he finds the animal coming in a serious charge. I think if a client cannot give a PH permission to shoot in these circumstances he is a macho fool. There is nothing manly about letting an animal get away wounded to die a long lingering death or to become a deadly threat when the PH could have cleanly killed the animal after the client made a bad shot.

A good PH will give his client all reasonable chance to take his own game but will know when to enter the gun fight.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Tiger has missed big putts in majors. Emmet Smith fumbled in Super Bowls. Willy Mays dropped fly balls. Trump blew business deals and Dave Fulson has missed, shot poorly, and even wounded in a career pretty well dedicated to Africa the last 15 years , and I don't mean a safari every other year or so. And Rich will too if he continues to hunt there. Each of us will. You play long and hard at anything you ARE going to cock up ! The guy who has not has not done the days... Period. The experienced guys on AR will back me 100% on this. Each of us has to play as we see fit and can live with. I am happy to offer the help, or accept the help of a insurance shot. If you feel differently so be it. But I hope your wounded buffalo does not kill me one day when I blunder into him .

Everyone screws up sometimes but I don't know what that has to do with trigger happy PH's.

You are far more likely to stumble into a snare-wounded buff than one wounded by some dude.

When a PH should/should not shoot is an interesting question and one that all PHs give a lot of thought to. Obviously, they all don't come to the same conclusion. One aspect that hasn't been discussed is what the PHs responsibility is in this regard as viewed by his peers and even more importantly by the Game Department that licence's him. If a client or tracker gets hurt or killed by a wounded animal there will be an inquiry by the Game Department. The actions of the PH will be closely reviewed and if it is determined that the PH did not act properly he could lose his license. The safari company that he works for will also review the case and again could not hire him again if they think he was at fault. Not good business for the company if clients are getting hurt. In either case not only does the PH have a moral and ethical responsibility but also a financial consideration.

Saying that, I personally wouldn't hunt with a PH that immediately shoots on the echo of my shot no matter what my shot did. It seems that Chifuti Safaris have a couple of PHs that do that routinely. I would still hunt with those PHs but we would have to have a solid understanding on when he should/should not shoot that he would agree to.

I haven't gotten too excited on the couple of occasions that a PH has shot when it wasn't needed. In both cases it was on elephant and in one I heart/lunged it and the PH fired a back up shot. In the second case it was a big cow that I knocked down with a shoulder/spine shot and we had to back out quickly because the rest of the herd was looking for us. He fired the shot as an insurance shot. In the first case the PH missed the whole elephant and in the second he just grazed it. The way I looked at it was that my shot/shots were the killing shots and his just a waste of ammunition on his part. No harm, no foul.

What I have learned is that in general PHs are not very good shots. Yes, I know that there are exceptions to that statement. That makes me even more careful on my shooting.

Here is the agreement that I have had with the PHs that I have hunted with.

They are to shoot when:

1. I take a brain shot on elephant and the animal doesn't go down at the shot then turns and runs. I ask them to heart/lung it as my ego isn't big enough to allow an animal that I wounded to escape. I'll eat the fact that my shot wasn't good enough.

2. When following a wounded DG animal. If possible he will get me in position for the shot if not he is to take it.

3. Any time he feels that animal is endangering any of the crew.

465H&H

Mark
Spoken as one who has the background experience I was referring to. Very well said.

I should have added to the above that the PH can not agree to never shoot as it would be a abdication of his responsibility to you his client and to his staff. Their lives are much more important than your ego.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
A good PH will give his client all reasonable chance to take his own game but will know when to enter the gun fight.
Mark

Exactly! And he also doesn't have time to ASK permission either.

Goldeneye, I have done 24 safaris, shot 36 DG animals, and I only had a PH fire his gun twice. Both on charging buffalo, one I wounded when I was 23 (15 years ago), and another un-wounded buffalo in Tanzania in 2008. Trust me, 99.9% of them are very professional. They will always discuss your feelings about such things before hand, and will let you know their's too! Don't let this thread mis-lead you into thinking it happens often, cause it doesn't.

To Rich's point about a PH wanting to see his client shoot when he gets there. Rich, you're right. Fact is though, any good guide can tell right away how a guy shoots just by watching how he handles himself and his rifle, long before a shot is even necessary. Besides, after YEARS of guiding hunts, I couldn't care less how a guy shoots a piece of paper. I only care about how he shoots a live animal, and sometimes the two results are MUCH different!

I really think though if a lot of you guys would spend a couple of years guiding hunters yourself, likely you might have a whole different outlook on the situation. I could tell guide/hunter stories here on AR that simply would not be believed. Some of the things I have seen my clients do, would leave you wishing they had brought their 6 yr old, and given him the gun. My 17 plus years of guiding experience only includes Elk, Deer, Antelope, Mtn. Goat and Bighorn. Yet some of these guys have told me about their up-coming African safaris, etc, etc. All I could think of was, thank god I'm not the guide, cause someone's gonna get hurt! Obviously not in every case, but enough to know that there's a lot more in-experienced hunters/gun handlers out there than one might think. Just a little food for thought.

quote:

I only had a PH fire his gun twice. Both on charging buffalo, one I wounded when I was 23 (15 years ago),

I seem to recall the 15 year old incident !!!

To get back to the original post,, I thought the show was pretty good as well,, and yes, the PH may have shot sooner than I would of liked if I had been the shooter. As most have said, you should talk to your Ph ahead of time if this is an issue for you,, like before you pay your deposit and again onsite before the hunt. If you talk to a great number of Ph's, they will tell you they have hunters and vacationers. Some arrive without ever shooting their weapon! My last Ph said he had a hunter to refuse to check the sight in on his rifle when he arrived in camp, he said he would not shoot paper and his friend that was on the trip shot it on sight in for him! As ISS said, it not only serves to check the accuracy, but it tell the Ph a greaat deal about the shooter, how he handles the rifle, the recoil, reloading etc. As one would expect, the buffalo he shot at was wounded badly and never recovered, but paid for. He did not want the Ph to shoot and by the time it was obvious he wasn't able to reload the buf was in the jess.

Things happen in the bush and it happens quickly. A bullet hits a tree and wounds the animal and a quick second shot is required, if at all possible I want to shoot the second shot, but the PH has a responsibilty to recover the game and protect everyone involved.We will have the discussion before we are on the hunt and agree to proper protocol that we can both live with. The double tap on tv was just to close for most of the DG hunters who post here. All things considered, I would rather be a little ticked off at the Ph for making a quick shot than to watch a train wreck occur and live with the aftermath, like they always say,, better safe than sorry.

Aaron is right about the shooting ability of many clients. The piece of paper at the range is so different to the real thing, and "buck fever" does enter the fray, resulting in bad shooting.

As a Professional though, it is our duty to help clients through a situation where shooting is difficult, and one soon realises the capabilities of the client. Some advise and positive guidance wins through most times.

I have been most fortunate in the 20+ years of PH'ing not to have had clients who scared the crap out of me with their inability to handle a situation calmly, and as I said, a bit of coaching goes a long way.

On occassion I have shot a short time after my client, but never without their consent.

I think that we are going a bit overboard on this whole subject. I don't recall anyone posting here that their PH backed them up too quickly. All of the commotion revolves around hunts filmed for TV. First, the production demands of putting together a TV show may make those involved act in a different way than they would otherwise. Second, the clients involved have either agreed to, or requested, immediate back up. My experience is statistically insignificant, 2 buffaloes with 2 different PH's, but in neither case did the PH fire his rifle. Is there anyone here who feels that their PH fired too soon? If not, quit complaining about something that didn't happen. The clients are happy, it's their hunt, why are you upset.

This is my first post on AR and would like to thank the many members for sharing their vast wealth of knowledge, insights and experiences.I have booked my first African safari with Chifuti Safaris (lion/leopard/buffalo) for June 2011. This hunt was booked after quite a bit of research on this site as well as many others.After booking Dave told me that my PH would probably be Mark Vallero (the PH referred to). I was a happy camper to say the least as many hunters who had hunted with him were more than satisfied with his ability and professionalism.I too want to shoot all of the animals myself BUT if in the PH's opinion there is a serious threat to life and limb then he should shoot a back up shot. If there is a real chance of wounded game being lost or putting the trackers, PH, and hunter at serious risk when retreiving it then a he should shoot a back up shot. I consider myself a good shot (not a great shot) after forty years of hunting and shooting a lot. If anyone thinks that they only make PERFECT SHOTS and never make a SOSO shot they are kidding themselves and everyone around them (there is way too many factors affecting this such as brush,angle,being hurried,etc,etc,etc, etc).I don't agree with a PH shooting a back up shot on every occasion but if he feels it is warranted SO BE IT. Just my two cents worth.
Louis

Lou
Anyone with as many big whitetails as you I'm not worried about. I may just tell Mark to leave his rifle in his tent ! Seriously, we are looking forward to your hunt and I am sure Mark will not need to burn any powder on your safari. Welcome to AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:

I only had a PH fire his gun twice. Both on charging buffalo, one I wounded when I was 23 (15 years ago),

I seem to recall the 15 year old incident !!!

You should!! You saved my bacon, and yours too, with that .460 Weatherby you shoot.

Welcome to AR!

Brett

Not sure what more I could add. +1 Neil, Dave, Mark, and Aaron!

Brett

Dave feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I heard Dawson say on one episode of Tracks that he fires a backup shot routinely whenever someone is on their FIRST dangerous game hunt/ FIRST dangerous animal.

That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. My PH on my first buffalo planned to do so, but didn't. As it turned out my 1st shot did the trick, but the buff still ran over 100 yds (one of those dead but needed more convincing situations).

I don't recall ever hearing Andrew saying that, but I have seen him backup quickly, even on Craig. Speaking of Boddington, perhaps other than Saeed, Craig has tipped over more bulls than any other client-hunter on AR, and although he is a very fine rifle shot he is very happy to have a PH put in an insurance shot if he thought it a good idea.
In most cases Craig's initial shot is spot on, but it is never a known fact until you find a dead bull. I recall one buff hunt Craig and I did when Craig shot a bull in heavy grass and it was swallowed up before he could bolt in another round. The PH, a great friend of mine, could have shot , but was afraid of second guessing 'The Bod". Craig laughed it off and said " If that bull kills me in that grass I'm going to return from the dead to kick your ass for not shooting!" Craig has lost a buff, so have I, ( his first and my best) and we would both have welcomed a backup shot that could have made the difference .And will tomorrow if the situation calls for one.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:
I only had a PH fire his gun twice. Both on charging buffalo, one I wounded when I was 23 (15 years ago),


I seem to recall the 15 year old incident !!!


You should!! You saved my bacon, and yours too, with that .460 Weatherby you shoot.

Wasn't that dramatic..........just all in a day's work !! Then again, if I saved your bacon, does it mean I'm in line to collect on something ?????

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:
I only had a PH fire his gun twice. Both on charging buffalo, one I wounded when I was 23 (15 years ago),


I seem to recall the 15 year old incident !!!


You should!! You saved my bacon, and yours too, with that .460 Weatherby you shoot.

Wasn't that dramatic..........just all in a day's work !! Then again, if I saved your bacon, does it mean I'm in line to collect on something ?????

Bribery by an African! Imagine that concept???

Have learnt from a lifetime of living with the best of them !!!

quote:

There is nothing manly about letting an animal get away wounded to die a long lingering death or to become a deadly threat when the PH could have cleanly killed the animal after the client made a bad shot.

absolutely 100% right, in fact i'll go a step further and say that anyone who doesn't agree with this shouldn't be hunting