Dear Guy's

I was just after a better understand of how the pricing system works.

If we compare one country only. Not country to country.

1. If a plains game hunt cost $400 per day.
1.1 Why dose a dangerous game hunt in the same area cost around $1,000 per day?

1.2 Given we are talking about the same hunting area and all the cost to the operation should be the same.

2. If there are extra government fee's etc why is the trophy fee not reflect that?

3. For a dangerous game hunt how do you work out the correct rate to charge. If we talk about Zim were the accomadation is all around the same general standard. Both major hunting areas are around the same travel distance from the capital city. Local labour cost around the same for each area.
3.1 Why is there a range from $700 per day to $1200 per day

I understand if you have a better reputation you can charge more. But some of the new comer's are charge the same as old timers.

Any advice would be handy.

Thanks Mark

In most cases DG hunts are conducted in more remote areas than are strictly PG hunts which drives up costs and also in many cases good DG areas are not necessarily great areas for PG anyway, if that makes any sense.

Mark,

Just off the cuff. There are a number of factors that dictates the price and for starters a fully qualified PH is normally paid double for hunting dangerous game. Often DG is much more intensive and requires more equipment and travel. The recovery of large mammals may incur other vehicles and staff as so may the checking of baits. DG hunts are normally lengthy affairs and there are resupplies to consider which also add to the cost.

Wouldn't it be fair to answer that paying people to take you on a hunt for dangerous game costs more because...it's dangerous?

Seriously...aside from the higher overhead and logistics as explained by fairgame...the PH and trackers are doing something that is inherently more dangerous than hunting PG. Why shouldn't they be paid more?

They charge more because they can.

Think of PG hunt as a "first car" for a teenager. It's cheaper but it allows them access to the "big wide world". As they gain experience, they may make the sacrifices necessary to drive something really nice, or they may stick with the "economy car" forever.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
They charge more because they can.

Yup

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
In most cases DG hunts are conducted in more remote areas than are strictly PG hunts which drives up costs and also in many cases good DG areas are not necessarily great areas for PG anyway, if that makes any sense.

Cane rate pretty much nailed it, but there is another side. As he said, a DG hunt is usually done in more expensive(remote) areas and have many extra costs. PG tends to be less expensive to outfit, therefore the client pays less.

But there is an entirely different situation: a dual use area where DG and PG is hunted out of the same camp. I believe this is what cameronaussie was asking about.

In a remote dual-use area the operator will often charge "standard" DG rates for DG. on these hunts he will turn a "fair" profit.

When the operator is setting prices for PG hunts in the same remote, dual-use, area he must keep in mind that he is competing with low priced ranch hunts. Therefore he must set his PG daily rates far lower than the DG daily rates even though the hunts may be conducted out of the same camp.

On these plains game hunts the the operator will turn little or no profit, but he will keep his crew(especially the younger PHs on his staff) working.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
They charge more because they can.

I would say that they charge less for PG because they can't charge more.......

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

.......

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
They charge more because they can.

I would say that they charge less for PG because they can't charge more.......

Both of these statements are TRUE....that is the simple beauty of Economics 101 --- Supply vs Demand

Cost of acquisition is a big factor that nobody has mentioned. Remoteness yes, but why then are Matetsi hunts so expensive? 30-60 minutes drive from Vic Falls, $1500/day, so you can not claim remoteness.

It is purely cost of acquisition. How much did it cost to obtain this quota? There is a cost to obtain a hunting area. Whether remote or not, there is a cost to obtain the hunting area. Call it a lease, to be clear.

1. Lease. What did the safari company have to pay to get this area. Or, how much did subleasing ph pay to obtain the quota they sold to the hunter.

2. Remoteness. Very expensive to get camps, food, vehicles in. Building camps, roads (if necessary) and camp infrastructure.

3. Cost of camp operation. Staff of 10-20.

4. Vehicle operation and maintenance, depreciation etc can cost $150-$200/hunting day. Support vehicles, (hunting car isn't the only vehicle used in camp)

5. Supply and demand. Buffalo are $1000/day. Good Lion are $2000/day. Although, this cost also has a lot to do with #1, cost of acquisition, demand sets the price paid (acquisition) and the price charged (day rate).

6. Profit. Oh goodness, let's not bring this up! It is common knowledge that ph's are absolutely rolling in it. God forbid they should be paid a decent wage for what they provide!

Add these up and you have your day rate.

So when you hear someone say, "My ph is making $2000/day on this hunt!"
Less cost of acquisition $1000/day
Camp setup and operation cost $300/day
Vehicle cost $200/day
Less various assorted cost $100/day

At $400/day per day ... yep he is rolling in it ... until one of his Elephant hunts goes unsold.

Subtract $15,000 from his annual bottom line.

Being on this side of the industry, I can see how much risk there is in operating a safari company. They work long days to make a decent profit, but risk a lot to keep that profit. Hunts that go unsold come directly off the bottom line.

The safari industry is quite like farming and ranching. There is the possibility of making very good profits every year, but something always seems to happen to prevent it.

Why do SF guys get paid more than grunts?

Done 5 buffalo hunts in tanzania and zambia. The camps used were for the general plains game as well as the big 4. They charge more because they can. There is more danger hunting the big 4 as you are targeting those that can hit back. Follow up as well as tracking thereof. However, the camp costs are the same in the Selous whether your hunting dangerous or non dangerous game. Look at the costs of camps in the Masai for the east african non-dangerous species. It is very high due to rare species only available in limited locations. Those properties cost more. The camps are the same, PH is the same, trucks are the same, risks are more but that is why they are there. Sure the PH needs a livable wage. I thought that was what tipping was all about. A dangerous game hunt that yields no dangerous game is a plains game in disguise. But try getting your money back for the difference!

Wendell makes all the good points. Aside from "because they can" it's also supply and demand. Hunting Ele's, Lion's and Buffalo just seems more manly. What the heck, give me a good two weeks in the bush chasing plains game and I'm happy as hell. But I do dearly love hunting big Cats. They eat humans! All considerations aside, Wendell put it together very well. It ain't cheap to hunt the good spots. Just price a 200 class deer or a 350+ Elk hunt. I won't even mention a Brown Bear.
LDK

LDK and WR have done a good job explaining - there's a lot of truth that DG does require much, much more expense to conduct - cats in particular.

In short, DG hunts are "exclusive" based on many things - the amount of DG animals on quota is generally much lower than that of more abundant plains game animals, thus one must pay more for this exclusivity!

Seems simple enough to me and I'm glad to pay for "Box seats", so to speak!

JW