I just flew back from Southern California after a few day mini-vacation centered around the USC Hawaii game. What a blow-out. Fight On USC!

Anyway, a lot more great title suggestions on this thread that will keep me typing for awhile. Thanks for keeping the great suggestions coming!

Best always,
Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
Death March.

Thanks for checking in Marc. Hope all is well with you and yours. Pat says hi and sends her love.

Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:

He is the most loved PH of Mr. Sheni but Fulvio you should know it as a DAR Resident ;-)

Mboga:

I know he uses Sheni (Game Frontiers) as no one else will accommodate him - simply wanted to know the area or concession where his filmed hunt would be taking place.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:


For every pro-MS post there are far more con posts, not to mention that he has already been ask to leave the two of top hunting organizations in the world today. That fact alone should justify some close scrutiny of the validity of his practices. That alone should tell any sane person there is something awry in Mr. Sullivan’s methods!

Mac,

Your posts are usually so informative, I treat them with great respect. This one, however, is out of bounds.

I have not hunted with Mark, and have no intention of doing so. But I do grow tired of the self righteous mob.

Best

Jack thank you for the statement of oft times respect for my posts, but it seems I've lost your respect here. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think if you read my post a little more closely you will note that I have never accused Mr, Sullivan of commiting a crime, or even a misdemeanor. I just disagree with his methods! If that makes me a self righteous mob member, than I guess you are right.

On the comment about a self righteous mob, if you are including me in that description, then again Im sorry you feel that way. It seems the only difference between you and I is you seem to agree with MS's methods, and I don't. Let me ask how is one of those two takes on this is more righteous than the other?

The evidence you say has not been offered is avaliable in MS's own films, books, and his word of mouth. He freely admits to purposely causeing charges of wounded animals for the purpose of causing a charge and getting himself stopping it on film. I ask you how is disagreeing with this being a MOB and you disagreeing with me not a mob and make one side righteous, and the other not?

.......................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Mark is currently hunting with clients in Tanzania but I had a chance to speak with him today.

It would be interesting to know the areas/concessions in which MS is conducting his hunts.

You can get in touch with Mark here anytime. I am sure he would be more than happy to discuss location specifics with you in detail. I am not familiar with all of the specific hunt locations.

Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:
His Methods seem to work though.
Regardless of whether any of you like it or not he is still alive and well after facing more charges than most. That is all the endorsement I need.

Marks way of handling close quarters charges has the highest success rate of any.
Until someone can actually show some inkling of justification, outside of their own personal feelings, for him and his methods to be damned: I say put your money where your moth is and show us different

Any 13 year old kid who can handle a rifle will do just as well as Mark Sullivan does with his charges.

Looking at a wounded buffalo lying in the open before it charges does not proove anything.

How come all the hundreds of buffalo we have seen shot always go into thick bush and die?

You are free to believe anything bullshit he puts out, many of us don't!

quote:

You can get in touch with Mark here anytime. I am sure he would be more than happy to discuss location specifics with you in detail.

Express Yourself:

Obviously not anytime as he is (according to your statement)currently in Tanzania.
Knowing the area was to facilitate the quest in finding a name for the latest video which, instead of the usual Black Death, Death here, Black there; to try and come up with something different, such as:

- "Whistling Thorns and Ninjas of Ngarambe"
- "The Dugga Boys of the Tapika Valley"
- "Mbogo Adventures in the Lungonya Thickets"

If you look the photo on the GFT website with Mark and the ele..it look like he is back where it all started....Moyowasi.

There is no proof of any wrong doings with Mark.The lies and assumptions have been said for such alongtime that people and SCI who cant think for themselves tend to believe the BS.Ive talked to some of Mark's clients none of the so-called lies-assumption have ever happened.Pure slander and jealousy.Jack D Bold I agree with you on the SCI thing.Example of one of the rumours-lie that started by a individual on this site "Mark charges a client $50k to have the animal charge" which is a total lie.There are more example's like that.

Capebuff:

MS is certainly not stupid - he probably chooses the right client for the film he has in mind as not ALL his hunts are film orientated, at least from a commercial point of view.

Seeing you appear to know so much more about him than most of us here you might be able to tell us why he only sub-leases from GFT when there are dozens of other outfitters with far better areas.

Mac,

No disrespect intended, I just take exception to the notion that SCI outed MS because of a disagreement on ethics.

BTW, I have only ever watched about 5 minutes of one MS film, and it was quite enough for me. You might be right, but I have no idea if his own words condemn him for illegal or unethical behavior.

I now recognize this thread for what it is after reading this from the OP

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Anyway, a lot more great title suggestions on this thread that will keep me typing for awhile. Thanks for keeping the great suggestions coming!

Best always,
Shawn

-is that the members of this forum are being played for tools. Nice bit of free publicity there Shawn-O. I am not buying whatever you are selling.

Fujutupu,give Mark a call he is more then willing to talk to you and others,great guy to talk to then you can hear it right from his mouth.You dont need me to say anymore.

Shawn:

I have met Mark on more than one occasion out in the field where we spared each other a few moments of our time with idle banter.
Yes, he is indeed a pleasant fellow, a gentleman and I would be one among others who would lobby him in that respect.
His film production style regrettably is not my cup of tea and which unfortunately reflects negatively on an otherwise very proficient hunter.
Now if he were to go and do what he does best at his own expense (no client involved) I guess the negative tones would be honed down quite a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Capebuff:

MS is certainly not stupid - he probably chooses the right client for the film he has in mind as not ALL his hunts are film orientated, at least from a commercial point of view.

Seeing you appear to know so much more about him than most of us here you might be able to tell us why he only sub-leases from GFT when there are dozens of other outfitters with far better areas.

I understand that some of the concession holders in Tanzania refuse to let him hunt on their land.

May be they are just as so many of us, who are really not men, but "girly boys" and have "dust for brains"!

So, I think after 5 pages the answer to the obvious question still remains.........How DO you justify not immediately putting more rounds into an obviously wounded animal???????????

I've seen a couple of the videos that clearly illustrate a delay waiting for the animal to charge.
??????????????????????

quote:

I understand that some of the concession holders in Tanzania refuse to let him hunt on their land.

May be they are just as so many of us, who are really not men, but "girly boys" and have "dust for brains"!

Saeed, some of your countrymen and fellow royals have done far worse things than Mark ever will and yet I have not seen you say anything about them.
They too are not welcome in most anywhere other than the land they have paid government bribes for.

Now in light of your strong stance on ethics and doing things the right way, would you say it is ok for your countrymen to burn villagers out of their homes and drive around in open topped Nissan Patrols with guns blazing at anything that moves.

I have watched the videos proudly displayed at ADIHEX of the "hunters" chasing down game Hatari style and shooting from moving vehicles.

In defense of Saeed, unless you have evidence that he himself participated in these activities, you are getting way off topic. I doubt he can control the actions of his own country men anymore than you can. Unethical behaviour happens in every country on this planet, including mine.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Mark is currently hunting with clients in Tanzania but I had a chance to speak with him today. His upcoming DVD is scheduled to be released in January 2013. While much of the editing has been completed, a title for the DVD has yet to be determined. I wanted to start a quick thread for those who might wish to participate in that creative process.

If any of you have interest, Mark would like to offer the opportunity to those who might enjoy having a hand in naming the DVD. When Mark returns from Tanzania he will determine the final title for the DVD.

If Mark selects a name submitted by someone from AR he will use the winners name in the title credit of the movie, send them a personalized autographed book, and a copy of the new DVD release. Mark will review all submissions made through November
1st and announce the winner November 20th. Follow the same
naming convention from Marks previous DVDs if you wish or offer
something different for consideration.
[/QUOTE/]

Shawn...you and Sullivan have certainly accomplished your marketing prelaunch...5 pages and approx 4800 views here on AR, your audience has again expressed diametric views of Sullivan but is certainly aware of your upcoming product. Nice job of commercially using our forum.

I am in the anti Sullivan camp for a simple reason. Though I have not met or hunted with Sullivan, I have two close hunting partners that independently have hunted with him...never again is their position for all the reasons others have cited.

Good luck in your business offerings.

quote:

In defense of Saeed, unless you have evidence that he himself participated in these activities, you are getting way off topic. I doubt he can control the actions of his own country men anymore than you can. Unethical behavior happens in every country on this planet, including mine.

375, not asking him to control anything, just wondering why a far greater issue is never addressed with the vehement criticism it deserves.

There is plenty of proof of what the UAE Royals got up to in Tanzania. It made international news.
Whilst on the topic of proof, there is more proof of what the UAE Royals did than any of the allegations against Sullivan.
Now proof should not be an issue here, there has never been anything more than hearsay in the slamming of Sullivan, there are multiple news reports on the UAE Royals. How many times did Sullivan make the news.

AHQ:

Allegations against Sullivan?

Where there's smoke there's fire and the same videos he markets are also ample proof in support of the argument going against his style.

As far as the UAE Royals are concerned, you could also look at Loliondo as being a private reserve with full protection or "blessings" from the highest authority. The organization also happens to be the only one that produces 100% on quota returns (paid up front).

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
Mac,

No disrespect intended, I just take exception to the notion that SCI outed MS because of a disagreement on ethics.

Jack you are probably correct in the SCI vs. Mark Sullivan conflict being over money, considering SCI’s record with Out Of Africa getting a pass for so long. I also agree that if it is true that SCI dumped Mark without explanation, I believe they at least owe him a list of the charges why he was dumped. He says they never told him why, but I doubt that.

quote:

BTW, I have only ever watched about 5 minutes of one MS film, and it was quite enough for me. You might be right, but I have no idea if his own words condemn him for illegal or unethical behavior.

Jack Mark’s films are valuable in one particular way, and can be used for a real education on the Cape buffalo body language just before he either runs or charges to know which he will do! I've heard rumors of illegal activity but have no proof of it so will not repeat the accusation here. Unethical practices now IMO that is a charge that is substanciated on film, if anyone views it with an open mind and a little cape buffalo experience.

I baught his first film “BLACK DEATH” because a friend of mine was in the film, a doctor from El Paso, Texas where I lived at the time these hunts took place. That was the beginning of his charges on film, and it was the talk of the African hunting client’s world, because of that close charge. I was drawn in myself and as a result I bought his next three tapes as well. Then I began to see a pattern, in his charges, that shined of a large ego! An ego that caused an eagerness to shoot clients animals, and a total disregard for the suffering of the wounded animal, to purposely cause a charge for the film.

The only proper reason for a PH to shoot his clients buffalo is if the buffalo charges, which Mark makes sure will happen. In every case where a charge is caused the animal in question could have been simply finished to end the animals suffering without moving in so close that the animal has no choice but to defend himself. Again the ridiculous statement when asked why he causes those charges, the answer is ” I let the buffalo decide how he wants to die!” That assumes the buffalo WANTS TO DIE and anyone with half a brain knows that is not true!He is hurting and scared and wants to kill you before you kill him.

Mark freely admits he insures a charge by moving in close so the animal has no way out of trying to defend it’s self.

Now it has become clear that most here do not really understand the impact of causing these charges. First this is done to sensationalize the action for the film, (read money), and secondly the charge gives Mark a reason to shoot the animal. If anyone here disbelieves this is true, all one has to do is, with an OPEN MIND just watch the charges very closely, from the distant approach of the wounded animal to the intentional closing into the animals fight space to cause the charge when the animal could be quite humanely put down from 30 yds by the client but that would not allow Mark to shoot the animal or get the desired impact on film. Never mind the fact that the buffalo belongs to the client, not Mark!


Then look at where these charges take place! You will not find one it tight cover, but all are in the open where it is easy to maneuver for Mark, and most start with the buffalo on his belly and wounded. This makes the buffalo very slow to rise, and and get going. For anyone who shoots his double reasonably well, there is no trick to braining the buffalo before he can do anything but die!

IMO, one day somebody is going to get hurt or killed because of this practice, and then all the intentional charges, on film, are going to come home to roost in the resulting liability court action. That is if Mark is not the one hurt or killed.

I hate to see anyone hurt or killed when it is a true accident, but when it is because of poor judgement and a blanent disregard for safety and/or the disregard for the humane treatment of a regal game animal, it is unforgivable.
.................................................................................................................................................... Bye

AHQ,
Did Saeed participate, himself, in any of these activities?
Yes, or no? If no, your post is not relevant to this thread. This thread has become about the actions and ethics of one person. Not a group or nation.

375
Makes no difference, Saeed was not involved with mark either but he has expressed vehement objection to the man.
I was merely asking him to explain where the difference arose in that he did not have anything to say about his countrymen.

I thank you for your opinion, but the relevance to any thread and my choice to comment on said thread has nothing to do with you.

Fujo, you are correct. 1000% percent in advance would however be a more accurate number.
If the allegations made by the villagers are anything to go by then some of what has gone on is simply damning to hunters. The fact that people were forcefully displaced from their homes and land for "Sport Hunters" will go a long way toward changing open minds against hunters.

Anyway, TIA.

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:

Fujo, you are correct. 1000% percent in advance would however be a more accurate number.
If the allegations made by the villagers are anything to go by then some of what has gone on is simply damning to hunters. The fact that people were forcefully displaced from their homes and land for "Sport Hunters" will go a long way toward changing open minds against hunters.

AHQ:

It is also quite possible that these allegations of being displaced were likely to have been brought about by the villagers themselves. It is no secret that overpopulation of the northern zone is going out of control and accompanying that phenomenon is the scourge of overgrazing by the ever increasing herds of cattle, poaching increases and the villages sprout like mushrooms after the rains.

It is also blindingly obvious that the villagers have also been pumped by the various organizations backing them to "trump the charges" - c'est ne pas?

Back to MS - MacD37 has very graciously gone to great lengths in detailing what and where the argument is focused on.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
AHQ:

Allegations against Sullivan?

Where there's smoke there's fire and the same videos he markets are also ample proof in support of the argument going against his style.

As far as the UAE Royals are concerned, you could also look at Loliondo as being a private reserve with full protection or "blessings" from the highest authority. The organization also happens to be the only one that produces 100% on quota returns (paid up front).

Thank you.

One day everything is going to come out.

And from some of things I have heard, Mark Sullivan is very likely to have criminal charges brought against him.

I have personally been approached by at least one individual who claims he had worked for him.

He wanted to spill the beans.

I told him I was not interested.

Mark Sullivan has done enough damage to hunting himswelf by his silly antics, and I have no wish to get involved in hanging him.

To the extent that BOTH DSC and SCI - the latter is well known for turning a blind eye to all sorts of criminal activities to those they wish to help.

He must have really burnt his bridges with them.

I was in camp one day when an outfitter told us a story of Mark Sullivan getting into a terrible argument with a concession holder who had allowed him to hunt on his concession, and things did not turn out agreed.

I have hunted with some game scouts who claimed they have hunted with him.

They had some interesting stories to tell.

I am sure Mark Sullivan does not want to hear any of those stories.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

You can get in touch with Mark here anytime. I am sure he would be more than happy to discuss location specifics with you in detail.

Express Yourself:

Obviously not anytime as he is (according to your statement)currently in Tanzania.
Knowing the area was to facilitate the quest in finding a name for the latest video which, instead of the usual Black Death, Death here, Black there; to try and come up with something different, such as:

- "Whistling Thorns and Ninjas of Ngarambe"
- "The Dugga Boys of the Tapika Valley"
- "Mbogo Adventures in the Lungonya Thickets"

Sorry...I guess I misinterpreted what you were asking. The hunts are in a variety of areas and also different countries as noted in the string earlier. The DVD will also contain hunts in the Rufiji areas you mentioned and also the Moyowosi and other areas.

Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
Mac,

No disrespect intended, I just take exception to the notion that SCI outed MS because of a disagreement on ethics.

BTW, I have only ever watched about 5 minutes of one MS film, and it was quite enough for me. You might be right, but I have no idea if his own words condemn him for illegal or unethical behavior.

I now recognize this thread for what it is after reading this from the OP

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Anyway, a lot more great title suggestions on this thread that will keep me typing for awhile. Thanks for keeping the great suggestions coming!

Best always,
Shawn

-is that the members of this forum are being played for tools. Nice bit of free publicity there Shawn-O. I am not buying whatever you are selling.

Jack,

Sorry if my starting a thread to pick a name for an upcoming DVD has in some way played you or others as “tools.” The thread is what it is…nothing more. It has veered off course only where those who felt the need to take it in that direction.

If you are suggesting I am creating a storyline based upon this thread your assumption is incorrect. If you can think of a better way for me to organize the hundreds of title names I have received by email, PM, and through this thread other than typing them into Excel, let me know.

If you have a DVD title suggestion I would be happy to record it.

Best regards,
Shawn

How about:

"Get Up! You're Dead!!!

"Black Kneeling Death"

"Death Came On It's Knee's"

"Saggy Grey P.J.'s of Death"

"Puddles of Death"

"Death Takes a Break"

People who know Mark shouldnt waste anymore time here,no criminal charges against Mark,the new assumptions and lies that were just posted are to funny and just plain slander.Some will say just about anything just more lies and BS,unbelieveable.Mark's still going strong....

quote:

Originally posted by touchdown88:
I though this was a thread about naming a new DVD?

That was definately my intended purpose. Perhaps it will get back on track. Probably not.

How about "White Death-A New Leaf" or "Black Life-My Reformed Hunting Career Because of An AR Thread"

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:

quote:

Originally posted by touchdown88:
I though this was a thread about naming a new DVD?

That was definately my intended purpose. Perhaps it will get back on track. Probably not.

When I see someone making such outlandish claims to their way of "hunting", such as Mark Sullivan and the crooks from Out Of Africa, I like to see the real side come out.

Why did he post his so called Open Letter?

Where he says only his way is the way to hunt?
Why did he stop after just one post?

It is the same old story.

Mark Sullivan is nothing but a bully with a rifle. He has the balls to be so brave in shooting buffalo he had wounded, lying down in the open - not much different than shooting fish in a barrel really.

But, he cannot handle it and answer questions from real hunters who have been doing real, ethical hunting all their lives.

What I find also sad is the fact that we still have people who champion this sort of behaviour.

Amazing what we humans have amongst us!
Some have a life so low as to compete like champions amongst the creepy crawlies.

It finally happened to me yesterday.
I was charged by a Moyowosi bull, IN KENTUCKY!!!

He charged from a height of 10 feet off the floor and caught me with his right horn on my forehead,
and viciously hooked downward, driving the bridge of my spectacles
(Fossil brand frames, "Eugene" model name, with safety glass "farmers' lenses")
down onto the bridge of my nose, cutting me viciously as he fell.

My son and I were on step ladders and did a controlled crash to the floor, saving both of our necks.
The beautiful mount, by B&B Taxidermy of Houston, TX, sufferred no damage.
That sucker weighs a hundred pounds!
Custom form for such a big bodied bull?
Made of concrete I reckon!

We called a couple of son's buddies to provide some muscle from below when next we climbed the step ladders.

If I had a video of that buffalo charge, I would set it to the music of Kenny Rogers:
"You gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em ..."
I would make the title of that one "Black Death Gets Even."

Maybe there will be a documentary about MS someday with the same title?

Absolutely great Ron

Regards

I have recorded all PM, email, and thread posted suggestions received as of this post. Thanks to all who have offered DVD title suggestions! I will keep checking the thread and adding additional suggestions to the list as new ideas are provided. Thanks again for participating in the process.

Shawn

Have we forgotten the Post subject. It is not another MS arguement.

Truly one of the best subjects ever. Even if not meant to be funny. Brings me out of the lurkers. Can't resist.

DENIM TO DEATH

DEATH BY BLUE JEANS

DEATH WITHOUT SLEEVES

TALK EM TO DEATH

RANT TO KILL


Saaed-
Since you are so generous, I would accept your offer to give away Sully's video to all AR members, if you wish to imbibe.
(big grin)

One more:

DEATH WEARS "WIFE BEATER" SHIRTS

(QUOTE]Originally posted by zzz:
Have we forgotten the Post subject. It is not another MS arguement.

Truly one of the best subjects ever. Even if not meant to be funny. Brings me out of the lurkers. Can't resist.

DENIM TO DEATH

DEATH BY BLUE JEANS

DEATH WITHOUT SLEEVES

TALK EM TO DEATH

RANT TO KILL


Saaed-
Since you are so generous, I would accept your offer to give away Sully's video to all AR members, if you wish to imbibe.
(big grin)[/QUOTE]

Hey I like wearing blue jeans when hunting in Tanzania!!! Actually I like wearing blue jeans in general.

Shawn

I suppose one should have a varied diet so I’m adjusting mine to add a little crow in the mix. It seems there are some facets of Mark Sullivan’s full activities that the films do not show. #1 is that he often goes into the weeds alone to sort out a client’s mistake but still initiates a charge anyway. And #2 he doesn’t shoot before the clients first shot! And #3 my whole judgment is based on his films and his own words not personal hunting experience with Mark! That being said some remarks below may be of some value to those here who care one way or the other!

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………


[QUOTE: Jack Dbold ]I baught his first film “BLACK DEATH” because a friend of mine was in the film, a doctor from El Paso, Texas where I lived at the time these hunts took place. That was the beginning of his charges on film, and it was the talk of the African hunting client’s world, because of that close charge. I was drawn in myself and as a result I bought his next three tapes as well. Then I began to see a pattern, in his charges, that shined of a large ego! An ego that caused an eagerness to shoot clients animals, and a total disregard for the suffering of the wounded animal, to purposely cause a charge for the film. [/QUOTE]

quote:

My answer to the above from another post. I bought his first film “BLACK DEATH” because a friend of mine was in the film, a doctor from El Paso, Texas where I lived at the time these hunts took place. That was the beginning of his charges on film, and it was the talk of the African hunting client’s world, because of that close charge. I was drawn in myself and as a result I bought his next three tapes as well. Then I began to see a pattern, in his charges, that shined of a large ego! An ego that caused an eagerness to shoot clients animals, and a total disregard for the suffering of the wounded animal, to purposely cause a charge for the film.

Then look at where these charges take place! You will not find one it tight cover, but all are in the open where it is easy to maneuver for Mark, and most start with the buffalo on his belly and wounded.[/B] This makes the buffalo very slow to rise, and get going. For anyone who shoots his double reasonably well, there is no trick to braining the buffalo before he can do anything but die!

the quote by an unnamed source: Countering my post above!
Gentelmen the reason for the un-named source for all of the quote under that name is because it is from a private personal E-mail and I do not have permission to use his name ! If he chooses to make that public I have no problem with that.

quote:

By un-named source Im told taken from hunting with MS.

-Mark does not shoot before his clients. He would like nothing more than the client to do it all on their own. Many do but many do not. -Many of the buffalo that are killed with Mark are killed in extremely tight cover. I have personally been there in the long grass with him many times tracking and then killing buffalo. In some cases tracking for over an hour and ½ on buffalo in impenetrable growth that you could only see a foot or two in any direction. The fact is that if a camera happens to be present, these do not always make for good footage in a DVD.

I’m certain the above is a true statement. The client shoots the buffalo first, and the buffalo is wounded but not killed. Then the follow-up to where the buffalo is down out in the open, then Mark moves in to force a charge! At this point is when Mark will shoot first, simply because he has a legitimate excuse to do just that. It means nothing that the client hunter doesn’t recognize it for what it is. It would not fly well with me, however!

quote:

by un-named source
-No one is ever required or forced to go into the long grass or heavy cover with Mark. Many are terrified and do not. That is one’s personal choice.

This is true and the above is as it should be, because at this point it is the total responsibility of a PH to sort the buffalo out, and if a client hunter is nervous state he may be a very serious danger to the PH and himself if forced to go into the tight bush under these conditions, and it is the PH’s call. However if the client wants to go in he can if the PH thinks he’s up to the task.

quote:

un-named source

-For some, waiting to pursue the animal for 10, 20, 30, 60, 90, 120 minutes or perhaps coming back in a day to pick-up the track is inhumane.

The above I agree with completely, but no more inhumane than standing talking in the camera with a wounded buffalo suffering in the background for several minutes instead of moving in immediately and finishing the job.

quote:

by Un-named source
-Further disagreement comes for some when on follow-up buffalo are not killed when immediately approached or confronted. This is especially true when the buffalo could be finished at that moment. Instead, they are allowed to turn and run or charge. This is where the hunting style is the driving force over simply killing and why it is controversial. This is the other component that becomes the ethical area of debate.

IMO This is not hunting style but killing style, and the poster is correct. This is where the ethical component of hunting becomes the deciding factor! I believe it is unethical to let an animal suffer while trying to force a charge when it is easy to simply put him out of his suffering, as the hunting part has already taken place at this point! Now is only the stoping of the suffering is left. Others seem to disagree, which is their right!

quote:

un-named source:
Hope you find the information useful and of personal value. I realize some of it you are aware of and some of it is new information. Your perspective is based upon what you have seen through the eyes of a camera on an edited DVD and mine is through personal experience.Respectfully, un-named source

I understand that a lot of footage is removed or just moved to make a flowing film! And I’m sure the above is no surprise to anyone who has ever edited any film. I yield to the source this certainly has made some charges seem like this but I must protest that it doesn’t debunk them all. In the Nitro express film SUDDEN DEATH There is a wounded buffalo in the back ground struggling to get to his feet for several minutes while Mark is in the foreground talking to the camera for several minutes about how many buffalo he has in his concession, and telling the viewers how beautiful they are as the buffalo behind him suffers.

The meal of roast crow was a nice appetizer, but I'm still hungry! If I'm going to have to live on crow we need to find a flock of bigger birds! All this has become silly because the years of discussion on this has changed nobodys mind at all, and I'm sure it never will![/COLOR]

...........................................................................