Shawn,

I have to say you are willing to play to a tough crowd. If you've been around this forum much, you had to know how any Mark Sullivan thread would be received.

I've never met the man. Wife bought his first video for me as a gift years ago -- no provoked charges. Last one I have. Never met the man. I'm sure he's a wonderful chap. Not saying he does it -- but wounding animals, provoking charges, shooting client's animals (unless necessary to ensure recovery or prevent risk to the crew)just isn't cricket. Rumours spread.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Shawn,

I have to say you are willing to play to a tough crowd. If you've been around this forum much, you had to know how any Mark Sullivan thread would be received.

I've never met the man. Wife bought his first video for me as a gift years ago -- no provoked charges. Last one I have. Never met the man. I'm sure he's a wonderful chap. Not saying he does it -- but wounding animals, provoking charges, shooting client's animals (unless necessary to ensure recovery or prevent risk to the crew)just isn't cricket. Rumours spread.

lavaca...No stranger to this forum and I am aware of how a minority respond negatively. I pay it no mind and am not bothered by it in the least. Thank you for your sage words.

Mark is a wonderful man, a personal friend, and a fantastic hunter and host. I have never heard anything negative from those who have hunted with Mark.

My experiences hunting with Mark have been everything I expected them to be. I learned much about managing close encounters with dangerous game and learned many tools to add to my hunting and survival techniques.

I hope you might offer some suggestions for the new DVD title if you have interest. I have received some excellent recommendations via email and PM if the thread is a deterrent in any way.

Respectfully,
Shawn

Death takes a Holiday...

Mark's videos are one of the reasons that I want to go to africa and hunt the black death. If given the chance I would hunt with him anytime.

DUMB AND DUMBER- oops, already taken by ANOTHER clown.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximus Brutus:
An awful lot of very stupid and childish comments in this thread. I really thought AR members were above this petty nonsense. Disappointed.

Max,
No offense but you are sadly mistaken if you had high expectations when this thread was launched. There are few hot buttons with this crowd but aside from high fenced hunting, canned lion hunts, Mark S draws a lot of heated discussion...

On an open Internet forum,one has to choose what one believes.

The choice is yours, and yours alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximus Brutus:
An awful lot of very stupid and childish comments in this thread. I really thought AR members were above this petty nonsense. Disappointed.

You obviously don't follow AR much......

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
but wounding animals, provoking charges, shooting client's animals (unless necessary to ensure recovery or prevent risk to the crew)just isn't cricket. Rumours spread.

Let's break this down (general statement not meant for lavaca):

"but wounding animals"

I believe Mark Young said it best in another MS bash fest that one doesn't have to try to have a number of wounded animals during the course of an average safari season in Tanzania. I would say the frequency of charges and wounded PHs this year would bear that out. I think this is a I once heard from my cousin's uncle who hunted with a guy who shared a camp once with a guy who once met MS and he said MS intentionally wounds animals to make them charge.......



"provoking charges"

I'm not sure there's any debate on this one. Either you like it or you don't. My only concern is for the trackers and those who are just "doing their job".


"shooting client's animals"

If an animal is running at me I'm shooting. Especially after the client got it wounded in the first place. This topic has also been discussed before by those who ACTUALLY know what they are talking about......Mark's clients. Across the board we have heard it's not a problem. If you don't want him to shoot he's ok with that unless absolutely necessary.


"Rumours spread."

Via here say and professional jealousy.



Again I marvel at those who idolize the likes of Ivan Carter and Buzz and then bash Mark for escentially doing the same thing! That is not a knock or statement of condemnation for any party, but a statement of fact.

Brett

How about Maximus gluteus? Thanks Brutus or "MULLET MAN STRIKES AGAIN!"

On the third day of September, 2012, I think Saaed should choose the winning title and author.

QUOTE Again I marvel at those who idolize the likes of Ivan Carter and Buzz and then bash Mark for escentially doing the same thing! That is not a knock or statement of condemnation for any party, but a statement of fact.

Brett[/QUOTE]

HUH!!!

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
Glad to see someone from Switzerland finally getting off their ass and actually taking a side. You go girl.

I'm English, you idiot.

QUOTE Again I marvel at those who idolize the likes of Ivan Carter and Buzz and then bash Mark for escentially doing the same thing! That is not a knock or statement of condemnation for any party, but a statement of fact.

Brett[/QUOTE]

HUH!!! [/QUOTE]


Scriptus,

Three people that ALL make videos, ALL have an up front and in your face confrontational style of dangerous game hunting, and ALL frequently get charged for their efforts. If Buzz or Ivan shoot at an incoming animal no one says anything but praise for a job well done. If Mark does it he's shooting the client's animal and show boating. The biggest difference I see between Ivan and Buzz and Mark is that Mark is much more in your face about his purpose of confrontation (although Ivan, Buzz, and associates have been up front about having a confrontational style)...........and Mark always has quota for the animals that get shot due to his "style"...........the latter being rather a large point if you ask me.

Brett

PS. Again in no way a condemnation of Ivan, Buzz, or Mark for that matter. Just an exercise in critical thinking. I'm sure the nuances of tuskless hunting require a certain amount of charges from unintended animals by the nature of the work. That said I would imagine being confrontational ups the accidents.

I'm a firm believer in trying to observe both sides of an issue in order to arrive at a more accurate opinion. Concerning Mark Sullivan, we often hear of the "provoked charges" and the hamming it up statements such as "let the buffalo decide how it's to die". Of course those statements are salesmanship bravado and nothing more. It doesn't bother me. In fact, I think it a bit humorous. I also don't buy the argument of presenting hunters in a bad light to the anti's. News flash folks, it doesn't matter what we present to the anti's, they are loons and are going to take issue with anything. Case is point being their statements that they would rather see a species go extinct than be hunted. Completely detached from the reality that the species is hunted by natural predators other than man on a daily basis.

There are some other things I NEVER see presented here on AR that mitigate the objections listed above. On a couple of his hunts for Lion or Leopard, MS reports and shows the cat laying around near the bait tree as they drive into the blind area. Mark makes a statement to the effect that it would be easy to just get out, walk a certain distance from the cruiser, and shoot the cat. But he objects to doing that as in his words, "it would diminish the way the animal should be hunted". Why do the MS bashers never mention that? I can understand and respect that statement. On my first trip to Zim in 08, I was hunting Leopard and Elephant Bull. On the second day of the hunt, we came over a hill in the cruiser and found 8 Ele's snoozing under a tree right along side of the road. In the group was a bull that, according to the PH, would go close to 50 lbs. I don't know to this day if my PH was kidding or not but I really think he wanted me to shoot it saying "When the hunting gods smile on you, you can't turn your back"! Well, I didn't shoot it because I wanted to hunt, not just shoot. Ended up taking a much smaller bull but had a much better hunt!

I've never seen MS over anxious to participate in the shooting of a client's cat whether it be Lion or Leopard. Buffalo and Hippo are relatively cheap compared to the cats and more plentiful on quota. Pure speculation on my part but for Mark to have as good of a referral rate as he does with his clients, there must be some mitigating influence offered on his Buffalo and Hippo hunts. I've said it before but there is obviously more to the hunts with MS than what we see on the DVDs. Furthermore, you can't chalk up his reputation of satisfied clients to them being naive or inexperienced. I know a couple of guys that have hunted with him that have extensive experience hunting DG in Africa as well as all types of game the world over.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I know a couple of guys that have hunted with him that have extensive experience hunting DG in Africa as well as all types of game the world over.

...but what would experienced international hunters that have actually hunted with Mark know about international hunting or hunting with Mark? Your INUENDO isn't welcome here!

Brett

Brett,

I like and appreciate your "critical thinking" approach. I've tried to point out a few items as well in my previous post.

However, there is a difference between Ivan and Buzz as compared to Mark that you are missing, IMO. And by the way, that difference is the only real objection I have with Mark's methods. It is that he doesn't finish off a wounded animal at the earliest opportunity. Ivan and Buzz don't conduct their hunts that way. I don't think MS has his clients intentionally would buffalo but I do think the ethical thing is to finish them off immediately.

I don't think you'll get an arguement from me. I've noted times where he could have killed the animal, but pauses to reflect or some such other activity. That said playing devils advocate.....if he rushes right in as opposed to waiting 30 minutes, an hour, or 2 hours isn't that speeding up the kill and avoiding suffering?

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
I don't think you'll get an arguement from me. I've noted times where he could have killed the animal, but pauses to reflect or some such other activity. That said playing devils advocate.....if he rushes right in as opposed to waiting 30 minutes, an hour, or 2 hours isn't that speeding up the kill and avoiding suffering?

Brett

Yes, it is speeding it up over waiting for the animal to "stiffen up". That is also a valid point in my opinion. I'm sure others will see it differently.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximus Brutus:

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
Glad to see someone from Switzerland finally getting off their ass and actually taking a side. You go girl.

I'm English, you idiot.

Well, that explains the apparent irony, but it does not excuse it, nor make it less amusing.

My next title suggestion:

"DOA: Death Orgy Again, Pimped by Mark Sullivan"

You know, I owned the book "Death and Double Rifles" and more videos by MS than I want to admit to.
One day I became overwhelmed by nausea.
Cured it by packaging up the book and all the videos, from old VHS tapes to recent DVDs,
and mailed them to an AR.com member in California.
What better place to dump porno?
He promised to keep them out of the hands of children, and to dispose of them safely for me,
but he did want to see what all the fuss was about before he burned them.

quote:

Three people that ALL make videos, ALL have an up front and in your face confrontational style of dangerous game hunting, and ALL frequently get charged for their efforts. If Buzz or Ivan shoot at an incoming animal no one says anything but praise for a job well done. If Mark does it he's shooting the client's animal and show boating. The biggest difference I see between Ivan and Buzz and Mark is that Mark is much more in your face about his purpose of confrontation (although Ivan, Buzz, and associates have been up front about having a confrontational style)...........and Mark always has quota for the animals that get shot due to his "style"...........the latter being rather a large point if you ask me.

Brett:

Point 1

Ivan and Buzz focus mainly if not entirely on elephants who don't need much coaxing to induce a charge though some may be aggravated mock charges whereas MS relies on wounded buffalo to be sufficiently goaded into producing the desired charge........just sayin

Point 2

All 3 individuals produce action video footage for profit - nothing wrong with that; it is how the desired footage is obtained that causes grief.

Todd Williams: You speak with fairness.

Mark Sullivan's Cordite Continent

quote:

Yes, it is speeding it up over waiting for the animal to "stiffen up". That is also a valid point in my opinion. I'm sure others will see it differently.

Todd:

Speeding it up is one thing and waiting around and goading it to retaliate is another - is it not?
If they are too badly hurt most of those poor sods just want out and it takes quite a few candidates before you find the right one that will give you the desired footage

However, to each his own.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Yes, it is speeding it up over waiting for the animal to "stiffen up". That is also a valid point in my opinion. I'm sure others will see it differently.

Todd:

Speeding it up is one thing and waiting around and goading it to retaliate is another - is it not?
If they are too badly hurt most of those poor sods just want out and it takes quite a few candidates before you find the right one that will give you the desired footage

However, to each his own.

Well, I did say that the part of Mark's methods that I object to is that he doesn't finish off the animal at the first opportunity , did I not?

Brett is the fellow who stated it is speeding things up by [Mark's] going in right away (even though he doesn't put the animal out of it's misery right away) instead of "waiting 30 minutes, and hour, or 2 hours" for the animal to stiffen up. I simply agreed that going in right away is quicker overall than waiting. From a time standpoint, that is a fact!

Please assign the proper sentiments to the proper poster and don't take me out of context.

Todd:

Apologies for the misinterpretation.

"Tanzania Roulette"

quote:

It is that he doesn't finish off a wounded animal at the earliest opportunity

I have one of Mr. Sullivan's DVD's and the above quote is what I don't like about that DVD.

My father taught me to finish off a wounded animal as quickly as possible. Not to stand there looking at it so "it can decide how it wants to die"

I enjoy watching MS's videos, but I always seems to hit the mute button 1/4 of the way through. You can only hear "tell me about your shot" so many times. Maybe the client should start asking for Mark to them about his shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Maximus Brutus:

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
Glad to see someone from Switzerland finally getting off their ass and actually taking a side. You go girl.

I'm English, you idiot.

I think since your loaction is listed as SWITZERLAND, unlike you, I think Mr. Olds doesn't seem to me to be the idiot, what makes you think he is? Who is the idiot who assigned your location in your profile and expected everyone to know you are English?

Acting is acting and if you watch many of the outdoor shows, that is what you will see. The videos Mark sells are made for selling and others enjoyment. Yes you may not like them but they show up close and personal encounters with DG.
If you look at Mark's client results you will see that he works hard to get his clients outstanding trophies. Very successful safaris.
I had the pleasure of meeting him and he is not at all like he portrays himself in the videos. A die hard hunter and he loves hunting DG up close. In a close up gun fight he is the guy to be on your side. Nerves of steel.
One of his best rifle shots who has hunted with him a couple of times is a fellow member here on AR. A superb double rifle shot.
Read Mark's books they will give you a better insight as to who he really is... Late in Sept one of my friends will be with Mark for a full bag safari to Tanzania.

Mike

Mark is a wonderful man, a personal friend, and a fantastic hunter and host. I have never heard anything negative from those who have hunted with Mark.
These are exactly my words.
I have meet him in Las Vegas at the beginning of this year and I can say only the best about him.
I have meet (without him) some of his former clients and all (!!) of them talk only in the best word about him and his hunting style.

You might not believe it, but there is a tiny group of hunters (4 of us, at last months meeting) who consider the highest form of hunting to be getting very close and killing the animal without him knowing you were there until the shot strikes home. We believe in the holy trinity of:

1. Using the biggest caliber you can shoot as well as your old 06'.
2. Getting in really close, so you shoot from a distance that is a tiny fraction of how far away you could have made the shot from. And
3. Bonus points if the animal never knew you were there until the bullet struck home.

We meet, the first Tuesday of the month at the local Chick-Fil-A.

"You pay trophy fee I shoot death comes swiftly on your dime!"

Deadliest Death
Death in a Deadly Land
Death by Double Gun
Death One More Time
Death for the Last Time
Death’s Last Call
Call of Death
Death’s Call
Whisper of Death
Death’s last Breath

quote:

Originally posted by Maximus Brutus:

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
Glad to see someone from Switzerland finally getting off their ass and actually taking a side. You go girl.

I'm English, you idiot.

your site address is Switzerland. how would ANYONE KNOW you are English? who is the idiot here? don't worry- it is a rhetorical question. even an idiot knows the answer

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
You might not believe it, but there is a tiny group of hunters (4 of us, at last months meeting) who consider the highest form of hunting to be getting very close and killing the animal without him knowing you were there until the shot strikes home. We believe in the holy trinity of:

1. Using the biggest caliber you can shoot as well as your old 06'.
2. Getting in really close, so you shoot from a distance that is a tiny fraction of how far away you could have made the shot from. And
3. Bonus points if the animal never knew you were there until the bullet struck home.

We meet, the first Tuesday of the month at the local Chick-Fil-A.

Your ideas intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

How about... "Death By Mullet"

Some titles that might cut the mustard: Substitute the word "Breath" for that monotonous "Death" in some previous titles.
Time for a little variety.
Such as:

Africa's Black Breath

Sudden Breath

In the Face of Breath

Breath and Double Rifles

Fear No Breath

Breath on the Run

Shot to Breath

Breath at MY Feet

Breath Rush

Breath by the Ton

Forget the mullet haircut, Markie S. at age 62 has outgrown that finally.

He still has a mustache.

January 2013 DVD title:

Tanzanian Gigolo's Mustache In The Bush: Horny For Handlebar Horns 2013

Tanzanian Tittilations 2013

Charge Card 2013: Maxed Out

Proposition 2013: Cut You For A Poke After You Sign The Contract

Ah For the Life of a Guide: PH In Tanzania 2013

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
You might not believe it, but there is a tiny group of hunters (4 of us, at last months meeting) who consider the highest form of hunting to be getting very close and killing the animal without him knowing you were there until the shot strikes home. We believe in the holy trinity of:

1. Using the biggest caliber you can shoot as well as your old 06'.
2. Getting in really close, so you shoot from a distance that is a tiny fraction of how far away you could have made the shot from. And
3. Bonus points if the animal never knew you were there until the bullet struck home.

We meet, the first Tuesday of the month at the local Chick-Fil-A.

I'm in. Or rather my daughter is. She is the sneakiest shooter I know.

add me to the mailing list!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ongwe:

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
You might not believe it, but there is a tiny group of hunters (4 of us, at last months meeting) who consider the highest form of hunting to be getting very close and killing the animal without him knowing you were there until the shot strikes home. We believe in the holy trinity of:

1. Using the biggest caliber you can shoot as well as your old 06'.
2. Getting in really close, so you shoot from a distance that is a tiny fraction of how far away you could have made the shot from. And
3. Bonus points if the animal never knew you were there until the bullet struck home.

We meet, the first Tuesday of the month at the local Chick-Fil-A.

Your ideas intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.