In addition to your African Game and game from around the world is it illegal for you to possess a Wolverine you took legally in say Alaska?

Fish & Game seizes Wolverine

What I don't understand is how they can seize personal property that was legally possessed prior to the inception of the law. Sounds like Ex-Post Facto to me?

A good lawyer can get it back.

A good law would not have taken an old stuffed animal or bird.

the Socialist Republic of Ca. hasn't had a good law in 50 years. there is a reason it is called the granola state- the land of fruits, nuts, and flakes. the only reason i have stayed here for 30 years is because of a REALLY good job, plus the fact i live 25 miles out of town on my little 36 acre ranch. this shithole is the epitomy of the nanny state with Big Brother doling out the benefits to the great unwashed( but voting) masses.

California sucks because stupid people vote.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
California sucks because stupid people vote.

There is an intiative circulating to make Ca Legislature part time. Search the web, download the petition, sign it and send it in.
If we can pass it the A**holes in Sacramento will have to get real jobs like the rest of us and maybe they won't have time to pass anymore stupid laws.

Jim;

I saw that info today....I was mistakenly under the impression that if it was legally taken prior to the "Endangered Species" thingie in California, trophies could be kept. I knew we could never bring a mountain lion home...legally taken somewhere else. Frightening...I'm glad I'm OLD! It's going to get worse, especially in California!

Best regards, D. Nelson

I had a meeting in San Francisco yesterday; flew up in the morning and was damn glad to be back home for dinner. I am normally very comfortable in urban areas, but that place is getting just too weird.

You don't need a good lawyer, you need a "good" Judge. Too bad your not in Texas where you could buy one with a "campaign donation" of course. I don't think it's as open a system in California.

There might be good reasons a large percentage of Americans have no faith in our system, but I don't know what those reasons could be.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
California sucks because stupid people vote.

Sadly it's not limited to California. Maryland is just as bad.

Proud to be Alaskan!! Might be awhile before that non-sense makes it up here.

So Darin, If you came up here and took a Wolverine on your Moose hunt you could not legally take it into your trophy room.

Something is dead wrong with that.

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
You don't need a good lawyer, you need a "good" Judge. Too bad your not in Texas where you could buy one with a "campaign donation" of course. I don't think it's as open a system in California.

There might be good reasons a large percentage of Americans have no faith in our system, but I don't know what those reasons could be.

could the reason be that most voters( i.e. the majority as opposed to a large percentage) are idiots looking for a free ride and most politicians are crooks looking to give them the car?? naw, couldn't be!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Proud to be Alaskan!! Might be awhile before that non-sense makes it up here.

So Darin, If you came up here and took a Wolverine on your Moose hunt you could not legally take it into your trophy room.

Something is dead wrong with that.

exactly the same way that if i shot a cougar in Nevada i couldn't bring it home. as i said- the land of fruits, nuts and flakes-AKA the Left Coast

Along with the fact that voters can be convinced to vote on anything California has some real losers in the Assembly. A lot of the crazy legislation is authored by representative from districts with very high crime and drug usage. They can't come up with any solutions so they constantly introduce gun legislation to "prove" they are working to clean up their respective districts.

IMHO these jerks are only interested in getting reelected.

Man, I wonder if these guys found out about another bar I have been too a couple times specifically for their trophies. what douches. and whomever "tipped" them off is a complete shit.

I would think this would be a grandfathered case, especially considering the age.

Red

I don't have a trophy room. I have a trophy garage. Real estate is so expensive here that if I had a proper trophy room I would never be able to afford to go hunting. My state use to be Reagan country, but now it is stupidland. Sadly, I don't see the bottom or the possibility of a turn around.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Proud to be Alaskan!! Might be awhile before that non-sense makes it up here.

So Darin, If you came up here and took a Wolverine on your Moose hunt you could not legally take it into your trophy room.

Something is dead wrong with that.

Now if we could just send some of the pretty California girls up to Alaska to hang with us old coots, I might move up there myself lol

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Proud to be Alaskan!! Might be awhile before that non-sense makes it up here.

So Darin, If you came up here and took a Wolverine on your Moose hunt you could not legally take it into your trophy room.

Something is dead wrong with that.

Jim;

I didn't realize that, but apparently so!!! DRATS!

Best regards, D. Nelson

I live in CA and my local shooting range has a mounted Wolverine in the pro-shop, so that's obviously not a problem. As far as I know, the only game animal that individuals are prohibited from possessing (according to state law) are mountain lions. The prohibition against importing their hides and skulls was included in a state initiative that banned hunting these cats within the state.

Other than mountain lions, you should be "good to go" so long as you didn't violate any laws in the jurisdiction where you took the trophy or federal prohibitions against importation into the U.S.

quote:

Originally posted by Pulicords:
I live in CA and my local shooting range has a mounted Wolverine in the pro-shop, so that's obviously not a problem. As far as I know, the only game animal that individuals are prohibited from possessing (according to state law) are mountain lions. The prohibition against importing their hides and skulls was included in a state initiative that banned hunting these cats within the state.

Other than mountain lions, you should be "good to go" so long as you didn't violate any laws in the jurisdiction where you took the trophy or federal prohibitions against importation into the U.S.

Why doesn't someone in CA sue the government over the mountain lion initiative? Voter propositions are tyranny by the majority; it is my constitutional right to pursue happiness, and such a proposition is a violation of my constitutional rights.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
California sucks because stupid people vote.

And because other stupid people- like me haven't for a long time. Personally going to change it on my end and am working to encourage others to do the same.
Frank

I think the game warden was being a douche bag for returning a week later to confiscate the critters.

I found the warden's number in case you want to call him and express your opinion. Wish I had the DA's number who is "investigating" this matter.

Warden Patrick Foy, DFG Law Enforcement, (916) 508-7095

I did some more research and apparently the wolverine is listed as a "threatened" species in the State of California. As such, there probably is a prohibition against importation. I didn't write the post with the intent to get in on a "Lets all bash California!" party.

I don't believe any responsible hunter thinks there shouldn't be laws regulating the take and possession of wildlife, just that said laws should be reasonable and that they be designed with the intent to protect the resource so that they can be utilized (including hunting) by future generations. Isn't that what conservation is all about? If the location in question possessed mounts of protected species (and both were), I really don't see what choice the game wardens had but to seize them. If they didn't (because of the age), how would they justify seizing protected species which were taken only two years ago, two months ago, or two days ago?

The prohibition against hunting, importation, and possession of mountain lions (including hides) was enacted under very different circumstances than our other F&G Code sections, and many associated with the California Department of Fish and Game openly opposed it. I don't think any of us here agree with the initiative and it was obviously passed in large part due to misconceptions among the electorate. That said, the initiative process in this state has provided voters the opportunity to pass needed legislation that our elected officials either wouldn't support or opposed regardless of the will of the majority of voters. You don't have to like them (initiatives), but the process certainly meets constitutional requirements on both state and federal levels.

why not bash Ca?? it certainly needs it....why in the world should game management be left up to a vote of singularly uninformed " citizens"???

There is nothing wrong with bashing stupid people. They are the majority of the population. It's not like we are kicking Gingers, left handed people or some other tiny minority of the population.

It could be dangerous because obviously stupid people are God's preferred design, so be careful.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
why not bash Ca?? it certainly needs it....why in the world should game management be left up to a vote of singularly uninformed " citizens"???

Because the initiative process involves a lot more issues than game management. While we certainly agree about that specific topic, enabling the public to make it's voice known on other issues is important and has proven to be beneficial.

We could go on and on about voter ignorance when it comes to the selection of elected representatives too, but I don't think we'll see tests being required to "qualify" voters on their intelligence levels become law anytime in the future.

quote:

If the location in question possessed mounts of protected species (and both were), I really don't see what choice the game wardens had but to seize them. If they didn't (because of the age), how would they justify seizing protected species which were taken only two years ago, two months ago, or two days ago?

This post makes absolutely no sense. If next year Mule Deer become a "threatened" spieces in California because they've all been eaten by the ever expanding lion population, then fish and game can go around and "confiscate" all the mule deer mounts whether taken legally in California or some other state before some bureaucrat made that determination? The answer here is for the town or others to take up a collection and sue DFG to get back those mounts.

DFG used to be an agency with populated by individuals with integrity and common sense. No more. It's increasing populated by extreme envrios with little or no knowledge of either the laws or the game they are supposed to protect. Last duck season two wardens stopped by our club and checked us. When looking at the days bag, one of them asked "what kind of ducks are these?". I thought it was a joke and they were checking to make sure we knew what we were shooting. I looked at the older warden who just looked away, so I asked the other guy, "you tell me". There were five ducks, two bull sprig (or pintails) one of the most recognized ducks in the world, and three hen widgeon. He couldn't identify either spicies and admitted "I don't know". Pathetic.

quote:

Originally posted by EB:

quote:

If the location in question possessed mounts of protected species (and both were), I really don't see what choice the game wardens had but to seize them. If they didn't (because of the age), how would they justify seizing protected species which were taken only two years ago, two months ago, or two days ago?

This post makes absolutely no sense. If next year Mule Deer become a "threatened" spieces in California because they've all been eaten by the ever expanding lion population, then fish and game can go around and "confiscate" all the mule deer mounts whether taken legally in California or some other state before some bureaucrat made that determination? The answer here is for the town or others to take up a collection and sue DFG to get back those mounts.

DFG used to be an agency with populated by individuals with integrity and common sense. No more. It's increasing populated by extreme envrios with little or no knowledge of either the laws or the game they are supposed to protect. Last duck season two wardens stopped by our club and checked us. When looking at the days bag, one of them asked "what kind of ducks are these?". I thought it was a joke and they were checking to make sure we knew what we were shooting. I looked at the older warden who just looked away, so I asked the other guy, "you tell me". There were five ducks, two bull sprig (or pintails) one of the most recognized ducks in the world, and three hen widgeon. He couldn't identify either spicies and admitted "I don't know". Pathetic.

If you believe in conservation (and educated hunters do), then you should recognize the legitimacy of why certain animals have protected status. Mountain lion hunting ceased in California because of the electorate, not because the Department of Fish and Game said a ban was needed. It wasn't "bureaucrats" that wrote and created the law, it was citizens who believed that sound wildlife management decisions shouldn't be made by "professionals" (ie: DFG) because they knew better. Does the theory sound familiar? (It should. )

I didn't post the information to get into a pizzing contest, but the fact is DFG is being co-opted by environmentalist extremists because they are filling a gap other Californians are creating. The number of hunters in our state is dropping every year and DFG depends upon license/tag fees for it's very existence. It is one of (if not the) worst funded law enforcement agencies in the state and that lack of training has much to do with your complaints about things like the inability to ID species of birds taken (ie: ducks).

There's a lot of ignorance to go around in our state. If DFG got a dime for every sparrow hawk, killdeer, or other unintended "victim" shot by inexperienced or incompetent dove hunters, they'd probably be able to train their employees better. Unfortunately, the state legislature has deliberately diverted funds that would have supported such purposes. Now, things like license and tag fees, fines for F&G violations and other sources go into the General Fund, even though (by law) they should be funding the agency.

If we (hunters) aren't willing to provide support to DFG, others (HSUS) will seek to fill the vacuum. If all we're going to do is whine about the problems, you'd better expect that hunting, fishing and other opportunities to utilize wildlife resources are going to evaporate. Encouraging young people to get into our sports, getting involved in DFG projects, and demanding that those responsible for protecting our resources are properly supported is essential.

Well at least the idiots' kids will be safe from being dragged off by the booming lion population because they're now breast feeding and sleeping in bed with mommy until age 7 in Cali.

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:
Well at least the idiots' kids will be safe from being dragged off by the booming lion population because they're now breast feeding and sleeping in bed with mommy until age 7 in Cali.

If you wanted to be optimistic about it, the increase in our population of mountain lions might result in fewer stupid residents. Darwin's theories are just as applicable to people as they are to mule deer and you'd expect large predators to be drawn to the easiest meal.

quote:

Originally posted by Pulicords:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:
Well at least the idiots' kids will be safe from being dragged off by the booming lion population because they're now breast feeding and sleeping in bed with mommy until age 7 in Cali.

If you wanted to be optimistic about it, the increase in our population of mountain lions might result in fewer stupid residents. Darwin's theories are just as applicable to people as they are to mule deer and you'd expect large predators to be drawn to the easiest meal.

Depends on if Californians taste as shitty as they vote.

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by Pulicords:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:
Well at least the idiots' kids will be safe from being dragged off by the booming lion population because they're now breast feeding and sleeping in bed with mommy until age 7 in Cali.

If you wanted to be optimistic about it, the increase in our population of mountain lions might result in fewer stupid residents. Darwin's theories are just as applicable to people as they are to mule deer and you'd expect large predators to be drawn to the easiest meal.

Depends on if Californians taste as shitty as they vote.

I don't know how Californians taste, but I can assure you they don't all vote "shitty." Suggesting that they do, isn't going to gain much support from those who live here and share our values about hunting and other things.

I'll miss the sushi and the weather, but can't say I'm going to miss all their stupid anti-hunter/gun laws. Hooray for the promotion to DFW!

I know there are actually quite a few hunters in California, some with ridiculously large trophy rooms and collections. One guy in particular I know has several signs by all the replica owls and eagles (in the dioramas) stating they are replicas. I asked about the signs, long story short, apparently Fish and Game is very aware of who has a large collection of trophies and they like to keep tabs on what is in them.

wasting money on a ridiculously over priced hunting license in Ca. is one of the more idiotic things a human can do. for years the money spent on hunting licenses, tags, etc. has gone into the general fund( through various legislative manuevers) as opposed to the DFG budget AS REQUIRED BY LAW!!! i would no more buy a license and hunt in this state than take a 1 way trip to Hell. if God was giving the world an enema, he would insert the tube here. HSUS, the Sierra Club, Defenders of Wildlife, etc. OWN game management in this state via the ballot box.

SG OLDS: You remember what ol LBJ used to say about Texas judges : "We have honest judges; once you buy them they stay bought"!

the government in California has the tax payers footing the bill to control cougar populations.
There are piles of lions getting killed by government hunters using hounds and traps. It is ok for the government to do this but heaven forbid the sportsmen do the management.
California is on the brink of loosing black bear and bobcat hunting with hounds as well!!

So why isn't SCI doing something about this?