The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting 350 Grain Woodleigh Solids in .375 H&HGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Has anyone used these in their .375 H&H? If so, what kind of velocities are you getting? What is penetration like? I've heard good things about effectiveness on large game but do not know any specifics. Your comments are appreciated. Thanks, jfm | ||
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Here's a hunt report using this bullet. Draw your own conclusions but for me, I'll 1) use something larger than 375 and 2) use a good flat nose like the CEBs. http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7381087571 | |||
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I used them on my ele that's in the report.I used 72 grains of H4350 with Federal 215 primers. Didn't run it through a chronograph but the info from the folks at Woodleigh say around 2300 t0 2400fps. As in the report the bull was slightly angled to me, the bullet hit it on the shoulder but it must have deflected off the shoulder blade and went back through the stomach into the gut. I can't blame the bullet for that. Before I went over there I asked Buzz his opion on the 300g or the 350 and he said the 350.You put the bullet where it is supposed to go and it will kill em. | |||
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Hey Randy, I certainly didn't mean to take away from your hunt report as I really enjoyed reading it and felt for you riding the emotional roller coaster. But to me, your report of a well placed 375 with a round nose bullet and then having it go "who knows where" is a perfect example of why I prefer a larger caliber and the flat nosed bullets. Actually, I think you CAN blame the bullet because from all accounts, you did your part correctly by placing the bullet where it should have gone. That it deflected can only be the fault of the bullet / caliber combination. That's just my opinion however and many will differ from mine. | |||
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The best penetration I have seen from a bullet! Cant find my specks on it but they run at around 2400fps if I remember correctly. | |||
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Ozhunter, certainly you mean 2400 fps. Unless you've created some wildcat based on the .50BMG cartridge shooting .375 caliber bullets. Thanks, jfm | |||
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Oops! fixed. | |||
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First, my recommendation is to use 300 grain bullets in the 375H&H. Preferrably mono metal like the Barnes etc. Second, there is absolutely no guarantee that a bullet will keep a straight path once it enters an animal. I have seen some incredible twists and turns taken by a few bullets. The worst fo which was a 460 Weatherby changing direction 90 degress after hitting an elephant in the trunk | |||
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Why do you recommend the 300g? Is it the extra fps or is the 350g to long? I have used the 300g on three ele cows but went to the 350 on the bull. | |||
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I hav shot a number of elephants, both bulls and cows, with the 300 grain bullet and had no problems at all. Also, I prefer to have more velocity, hence my using only the 300 grain bullet. | |||
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Shot one buff and it dropped to the shot with 350 woody PP bullet. Shot some plainsgame as well. Worked good. Ran them with RL15 to just under 2400. Mac | |||
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I'm bringing 350 grain (.375 H&H) Barnes TSX and Woodleigh Weldcore solids with me to Tanzania for buffalo in just a few weeks. I've only shot paper targets with them so far, but I've got nothing to complain about re: accuracy. At about 2350 fps they should do everything that caliber is capable of, if I do my part. Previously I've shot brown bear in SE Alaska with 300 grain TSX bullets and was only able to recover the last round, that traversed the bear from the front-left shoulder to the right-rear hip. Perfect expansion and I expect that the bullets that passed through did the same, based upon examination of the exit wounds. This will be my first trip to Africa and I have no first hand knowledge of how these rounds behave on buffs, but the research I've done (as well as my previous experience) indicates these should provide as good performance as possible with a .375 H&H caliber rifle. "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken." Tanzania 2012: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/8331015971 Saskatoon, Canada 2013: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4121043/m/7171030391 Las Pampas, Argentina 2014: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4107165/m/1991059791 | |||
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I used solids on my first Cape Buffalo hunt based on "advise".....I have never used them again on Cape Buffalo....heart shot, heart shot , double lung shot....thank goodness he was in low grass and we caught him fairly quickly standing, bleeding out nose and wounds....then made another mistake and high lung shot again with intention to come out on far side shoulder....missed the shoulder from 12 yds!Should have shot the clavicle I guess....he turned and tried to mount a charge, feeble but a charge none the less...I had a round jacked in and was about to pull trigger on his head when John dropped him with a neck shot...he was two steps from me....416Rigby with 400gr Woodleigh solids. The rest of my Buff were killed with Barnes TSX 350 gr...one was a one shot (frontal), other two were three shots... After my personal experiences, you could not pay me to use a solid on a Cape Buffalo! I know, Pros, limited experience but you could not change my mind even if I booked a hunt with you!! | |||
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Have used 350grPP Woodleigh on buff and various plains game. Used RL15 and got 2400fps. No problems but next time I will probably use 300grTSX for everything. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I now use solids, whatever caliber , on Tiny Ones to make my taxidermist happy , and on Hippo and Ele... | |||
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The idea of running into cranky Elephant with a soft down tube almost always has me loading FMJ's. | |||
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Why use a 350 grain solid when a 300 grain solid will go completely through an ele skull, statistically has an impeccable track record of doing such in the field for decades and is one of the best penetrating cartridges on the planet? "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Dirklawyer is correct in that the 300 grain .375 solid has more than enough penetration on elephant heads. Penetration isn't the issue. The .375 is generally rated as a very marginal stopper on elephant. The heavier 350 grain bullet increases its stopping power to some degree. Maybe just enough to keep you from getting squashed. Where increased penetration is valuable is with soft point bullets on buffalo. You have a much better chance of getting your 350 grain bullet into the heart/lung area on a follow up rear end shot with it than a 300 grain bullet. In addition that bullet will cause more trauma on its path than even the 300 grain Barnes. 465H&H | |||
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I can see your reasoning behind a 350g soft point on buff but backup shots should be solids and any good 300g soft point on the initial shot is going to get the job done. My son shot a nice old buff in Zim a few years back with a 300g Swift a-frame at a lowered velocity of 2450fps the results were perfect. At 60yds it broke the near side shoulder leg bone, broke near rib, top of heart, far rib and we cut the bullet out under the skin on far side it weighed 288grains. Swift bullets are a great bullet and stay together but not the best penetrating soft on the market because of the beautiful broad mushrooms they make when going through tissue. So fifty more grains of bullet weight at lower velocities I'm not sold on it being a dramatic difference in the end. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Dirk is correct. Bullet stability is the greatest influencing factor wit the type of penetration you are describing. A shorter bullet will stabilize faster in the same twist rate. For the longer bullet to obtain the stability you require you need a tighter twist. Go wit a North Fork/GS Custom or other 300gr FN solid. It will penetrate in a straight line through any elephant. With the 458 450gr FN solid GS custom has measure 80+ inches of straight line penetration in elephants. I believe the source of the info was Johan Calitz. Round noses dont make sense to me, unless that is what your gun likes and performs well with. Good luck, | |||
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A 300 grain mono-metal solid is about the same length as a 350 grain RN steel jacketed solid. The stabilty factor for both will be about the same. 465H&H | |||
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Which is why GSC recommends that the 270gr FN be used. In a 375H&H it will outpenetrate a 300gr solid mono every time, which, in turn will outpenetrate a jacketed leadcore every time. Also, FN solids are shorter than RN solids of the same construction. Once a bullet is submerged in the target, twist rate and stability factor means nothing but, in the transition from air to tissue, it is a factor. The higher the s/f, the better. | |||
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Since the 300 grain .375 has more than enough penetration as is, going to a 270 grain FN solid to increase penetration even more will result in a further reduction of stopping power of which it is short! In my opinion that is going backwards. 465H&H | |||
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A 235 gn Woodleigh Hydro was giving us the same penetration as a 300 gn RN SN Hard to believe but end to end on full size big Water Buffalo is impressive. 350gn Woodleigh Solids penetrate a long way if not all the way through most animals. Is there a need ? . Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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A 375 does not have enough stopping power on dangerous game, no matter what bullet weight you use. A 270gr bullet runs faster than a 300. That increases the temporary wound channel and that adds to the permanent wound channel volume. There are many things you have not considered and, until you have experience with a particular make of bullet, your opinion is not valid. | |||
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Gerard, Can you explain to me what "stopping power" is please? Personally, I have never believed in "stopping power" as has been written in books. To stop a charge, one has to hit the CNS, an for that, the 375 has plenty of power. I suppose I have been very lucky, in that I have never had to stop a charge. But, I have dropped many elephants, and more buffalo, stone dead with with brain shots, from different angles, using a 375. | |||
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Saeed, You are completely right, stopping power is a myth. A charge, or the flight, of any animal can only be halted immediately if the central nervous system is knocked out (temporarily or permanently), or the skeleton is damaged in such a way that the animal can not cover ground. All indices that list stopping power from 'good' to 'bad' are just so much nonsense. What they actually attempt to list is the ability of a caliber/bullet/cartridge to track deep and straight and do the most permanent damage within the wound track. Shot placement is job number one. If the hunter does that well, it is then up to the bullet to go as straight and as deep as possible, leaving the highest possible damage in the volume formed by the track through the animal. Those are the only factors that matter: Shot placement and the bullet finishing what the hunter started. We seek reliability and consistency. | |||
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Gerard, Until you have stopped a couple of elephant charges your opinion is not valid! Also how many elephant have you shot with the 350 grain Woodleigh or Barnes? If none then as you say your opinion is not valid. 465H&H | |||
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Seed, Please view Mike Jines tuskless elephant charge with Buzz Charlton. Mike got in 2 500NE rounds and Buzz got in 1 416 round. The 3 hits knocked the cow ele down right at their feet. As they retreated, the cow got up and attempted to run away. Buzz then finished her off from a distance. In this instance, the 3 rounds failed to hit the CNS but put enough energy into the skull to knock her off her feet and thereby "Stopped" the charge. There is no denying that a CNS hit with the 375 will do the job but, this video has been shown over and over and yet we still have the 375 crowd stating that there is no such thing as a charge stopper in terms of large bore weapons. Irrefutable evidence to the contrary matters not. | |||
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Todd, I have personally knocked an elephant down after missing the brain, and was able to kill it. All with a 375. Animals react differently to being shot. Some might be swayed and knocked down very easily. Others might show waht seems an extraordinary will to resist being killed. I know of instances where a charging cow was shot in the head with a 577 T.Rex. The brain was not hit and all she she did was shake her head. Regardless of all this, I will take my chances by using a rifle I know well, in any dangerous game situation. And in my case this iss teh 375/404. | |||
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Saeed, Your post to Gerard stated: "To stop a charge, one has to hit the CNS, and for that, the 375 has plenty of power". The first sentence of your response to me says: "I have personally knocked an elephant down after missing the brain..." One or the other. Can't be both ways! Stopping Power, not killing power, is the ability to knock the animal down or at least turn the charge, when the CNS is missed. Your example, stated in your first sentence responding to me, illustrates that Stopping Power does indeed exist. The large caliber bullet with it's larger frontal area and higher energy level, allows this "Stopping" reaction to occur more reliably when the CNS is closely missed or possibly by a little further CNS miss. There is of course a limit to this as illustrated by your example of the head shake from a 577 T.Rex. Shot placement is still No. 1, but the larger caliber does provide a larger margin of error. That margin may be only a matter of inches, but sometimes that is enough to save the day. Sometimes not! | |||
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Todd, Well stated! 465H&H | |||
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Todd, The elephant I shot was not charging, so I wasn't trying to stop him. My understanding of so called "stopping power" is to stop a charge. I am afraid I do not subscribe to the theory that a bigger caliber gives any sort of margin. But, if that is what you believe, please go ahead and use any caliber that will satisfy you. I will stick to my 375 and take my chances. | |||
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Ferrari have won more world championships in Fomula One than any other manufacturer. Audi have won more LeMans 24 Hour endurance races than any other manufacturer. How much driving on race tracks do you think the engine designers, chassis designers and the engine and chassis builders have done? The drivers of the winning cars can attest to the competence and effectiveness of those winning car designs. Until you have used the product, your opinion is not valid. My opinion is valid because I design and build and then have the 'drivers' decide whether I have a winning car or not. Someone who has not designed and tested or driven, speak from hearsay. Argue with the likes of Johan Calitz and many others if you feel like arguing. | |||
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I killed an elephant in Mozambique last summer with a .375 H&H Ackley Improved using a 300 Failsafe bullet. Shot between the eyes at ~15 yds. Velocity ~2850 fps at the muzzle. The elephant was "dead" before it hit the ground, and it never twitched. Hitting the vitals - in this case the CNS - is critical to "stopping power." Shooting straight is most importnant, although shooting through brush and the like may be better with less deflection using the heavy-for-caliber and larger big-bore caliber bullets. But, IMO this is the only advantage the .416, .458, etc. may have over the .375. Regards, AIU | |||
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That is your problem Gerard. You think your a Ferrari. Your arrogance and know it all attitude doesn't float with those with real and not second hand elephant hunting experience. 465H&H | |||
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I do not think there is ANY sport hunter, living today, who can claim he has enough elephant hunting experience to tell the rest of us he knows any better. | |||
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So, you think that the couple of elephant and buff you have shot (using a limited range of products) weighs more than the testing I have had done by 5 or more PHs, over the shooting of several dozen elephant and buff (using many more different products), and then the field reports of several hundred instances thereafter, with every product you can imagine and some you cannot? Dream on. Surely you can understand the Ferrari/Audi story, no one can be that obtuse. | |||
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Since I have shot several dozen elephants and buffalo with a variety of bullets maybe my opinion does have some validity. You seem to want to make the rules on who can have an opinion and everyone has to follow them but YOU! Arrogance of the frist order. 465H&H | |||
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