This has been explained here very clearly.

And my understanding is that this is also the case of PAC hunts in Zimbabwe.

But, we seem to get so many PAC hunts offered in several countries.

I just hope none of our American friends get into a sticky situation about this after they have been on one of those hunts.

quote:

And my understanding is that this is also the case of PAC hunts in Zimbabwe

Saeed, is it your understanding that PAC hunts in Zimbabwe are not legitimate? While I've never participated in one, they have been discussed when I've been in country including the suggestion that they would be available to me, if the situation and opportunity presented itself

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:

quote:

And my understanding is that this is also the case of PAC hunts in Zimbabwe

Saeed, is it your understanding that PAC hunts in Zimbabwe are not legitimate? While I've never participated in one, they have been discussed when I've been in country including the suggestion that they would be available to me, if the situation and opportunity presented itself

Yes, that is my understanding, at least after hearing a number of PHs talking about it.

It would be interesting if someone in the know would throw some light on this.

Ganyana, anything you can say to clarify this point would be much appreciatete it by everyone.

Ganyana would certainly be most qualified to comment - as I have been out of Zim for some years, but it is my understanding that there ARE legal PAC hunts available in Zimbabwe. As per kathi's post Mozambique and Tanzania legislate specifically against PAC hunts for paying foreigners.

Martin Pieters or Buzz Charlton can also fill us in on the latest in Zim as regards PAC hunts.

Of course PAC hunts are the most open to abuse and double dealing - witness the recent thread about Evans Malema or whatever the fool's name is. So choose your outfitter/operator carefully.

I think that Zim "PAC" hunts are, for the most part, actually ele hunts done with non-trophy or rations quota in hand. A hunt of this sort would be legal.

The fact that the operators and PH's are targeting eles that are troublesome, or raiding fields, is helpful to the PH and outfitter in their relationship with locals, especially with tribal leaders and councils under the CAMPFIR program. The coucils and chiefs want their people and their crops protected and fed. The outfitter and PH want to continue their hunting in the future in that CAMPFIR area. So if an elephant is going to be killed, it is better for it to be a crop raider or an aggessive, troublesome ele.

A mutually beneficial situation, where the outfitter/PH, with non-export, non-trophy quota in hand, targets troublesome or crop raiding eles for the benefit of the locals.

This is Zim "PAC" hunting as I have done it and seen it done.

Also, from the hunter's point of view, or at least mine, it is a nice feeling to have tracked a raiding or otherwise troublesome ele from locals' fields, killed it, and then witnessed the joy of the locals in anticipation of a hearty chunk of meat, otherwise so rare in their lives. Sure beats watching an ele carved up knowing it is headed to a croc farm. The PH's I have hunted with or discussed this with feel the same regarding finding some "satisfaction" (if that is the right word) in the meat going to locals rather than a croc farm.

Could the PH and hunter have looked away from the fields for tracks to follow? Sure, but why?

JPK

In most African countries with elephants and lions, there will be occasions where animals are problems. In almost every case, the licensed PH's are obligated to help eliminate the problem. If he has a licensed hunter with him and a problem animal becomes evident--ie the village chief, or in some case the Game Scout, or the district commissioner makes a request to the PH, then it seems unlikely that any problem will develop over who pulls the trigger.
Mozambique, in years past, had a system that allowed some "Big Shots" to come in and take huge elephants that were not causing problems, and were not even in populated areas, and taking them under the guise of "PAC". The selling of that kind of hunt should obviously be regulated against.

PAC hunting in Zimbabwe is resttricted to zimbabwean citizens and?or holders of learner PH licenses. Finish and klar. This has always been the parks standpoint and an interpretation of the law.

There are many ways around this... - usually by the simple expedient of calling it a 'management hunt'.

The 'trick' in Zim has usually been that there has been NO paperwork at all for PAC hunts whilst for ration?management hunts there is a TR2 reflecting exactly what has gone down as far as area, quota, payments etc.

The councils don't car- they want the money and the less the govrnment steals the happier the council are. The operators would rather leave the thieving bastards in government out of the equations as well, but the bottom line is- if the council or operator 'label' a hunt as PAC then no foreign national may shoot the animal.

There you go Gentlemen - from the horses mouth - so to speak...

Thanks Ganyana. Very informative post. Good to get it straight..

Thanks much GANYANA!

quote:

Originally posted by JTHunt:
There you go Gentlemen - from the horses mouth - so to speak...

And his answer would also apply to the country of Mozambique, which is what this thread is all about?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by JTHunt:
There you go Gentlemen - from the horses mouth - so to speak...

And his answer would also apply to the country of Mozambique, which is what this thread is all about?

Illegal PAC Hunts Sold In Mozambique

(posted April 09, 2010)

If you have been offered a Problem Animal Control (PAC) hunt in Mozambique, you need to know that all such hunts are illegal in that county. I have this directly from Afonso Madope, national director of conservation areas in Mozambique. "Criminal charges will be laid against participating hunters, outfitters and professional hunters involved in such practices," he wrote in a memorandum that was forwarded to The Hunting Report. No matter what an operator may tell you, there are no permits that allow a hunting client to participate in a PAC hunt. Forewarned is forearmed. - Barbara Crown, Editor.

Here it is.





This status still stands. I wonder how long it will be before soneome asks the same question again!

I was offered a PAC lion hunt in Moz last year and a couple of AR members, incl. one who corresponded above, know the miscreant.

After much complaint from me about lack of references and proof that he could do this, the PH sent me docs with similar seals to the one above saying he was authorised to do PAC. A PH member well-known here told me that even if I were able to hunt a lion like that I would not be allowed to take the trophy out of the country, so I took my business elsewhere. Just as well, it seems: while I got four animals on my safari, the unlucky hunter next door with the PAC cowboy got zilch.