Thanks Larry!

I have not read this entire thread. I am not sure everything that has been said.

I agree with getting as close as you can.

On the other hand, I attended a long range shooting school. After that school, I found it amazingly easy to hit long range targets. For example, I hit a grapefruit sized target every single time at 600 yards. The key is knowing where your gun will hit at the exact range you are shooting.

As a practical matter what does all of this mean to me? Would I shoot at a sheep at 500 yards while lying prone with a bipod? Hell yes! Would I shoot at a buff off sticks at 300 yards? Hell no!

No one should ever take a shot they are not comfortable with.

One other side note. The local range I go to has targets at 100, 200 & 300 yards. I have recently been practicing with my 300 Win Mag, shooting gongs at 100 & 300 yards. There is a noticeable difference in the time it takes to hear the "whack" on the gong from 100 to 300 yards. The moral of this story is that an unexpectdde movement by an animal has a much bigger chance of causing a miss or a wounded animal the further one shoots.

I agree with Larry, Dave and Larry!

quote:

The moral of this story is that an unexpectdde movement by an animal has a much bigger chance of causing a miss or a wounded animal the further one shoots

The exact reason why I do not buy into the "Long Range" shooting business. Too much chance for the animal to move, even the slightest amount, to guarantee a hit.

Now, since this is supposed to be based on opinions and larryshores has laid some ground work, what animals would any of you be comfortable shooting at, at extended ranges?

My neighbors cat, my girlfriends horse ( she does not read AR) and especially ugly coyotes.

I have shot an elk at 574 and a mtn goat at 535. Would easily shoot another elk at that distance given the chance.

I would not be comfortable with a Brown Bear at that distance. None of the Big 5 either.

I would like to add that at the very long ranges animals often have no idea somebody is shooting at them. The report is too far away for them to associate it with anything. There are tons of variables of course.
I've killed deer in Va beyond 300 yds and had the other deer just stand around the one that went down. The shots in Va are usually at 50 or 60 yards.
I've heard the same thing from long range hunters of various animals.

quote:

My neighbors cat, my girlfriends horse ( she does not read AR) and especially ugly coyotes.

I like cats, as long as they are in the house not the pasture, then they arte free game. The last horse I was on tried to kill me, and coyotes need to be shot/shot at anytime a person gets the chance.

A cat that is for the family and resides in the house or at the house is that; a "cat".

Now one of those fearful cats you see in a field without a home; now they are called "field lions" and they are fair game.

quote:

Now one of those fearful cats you see in a field without a home; now they are called "field lions" and they are fair game.

I love cats, unless they are out in a pasture and those little predators were never meant to be part of the eco-system in North America. They kill too many quail and other ground nesting birds. I don't like having to kill them, but they are not supposed to be there.

LS suggests no one should take a shot that they are not comfortable with?

I would have to object to that statement and reword it as GENERALLY no one should take a shot that they are not comfortable with.

We now and again break the rule. However that mentality scores quite highly in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:


We now and again break the rule. However that mentality scores quite highly in my book.

"Hold where"?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:


We now and again break the rule. However that mentality scores quite highly in my book.

"Hold where"?

Exception to the rule?

Should have seen the Sitatunga we had a brief glimpse of in the early grey of morn. Took our breath away mate.

Brad had a shot but it would have been a guess and he did not take it. Good man that.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:


We now and again break the rule. However that mentality scores quite highly in my book.

"Hold where"?

Exception to the rule?

Should have seen the Sitatunga we had a brief glimpse of in the early grey of morn. Took our breath away mate.

Brad had a shot but it would have been a guess and he did not take it. Good man that.

Tease!!

One reading this thread might get the impression that only those who shoot at long distances miss and wound animals.

Reality, is, of course, this is not true.

There are hunters who are capable of consistently killing at any reasonable range.
While there are hunters who really have no business shooting at any range.

Bottom line is, hunt long enough, and you will miss and wound animals.

Regardless of the range.

quote:

While there are hunters who really have no business shooting at any range.

There, is why publicizing Long Range shooting bothers me. There are people out there that can not hit game at reasonable ranges, but, when reading about the exploits of those that can and do kill game at extended, the ones that do not have the ability will try the same shots as those that do, with out going thru all the preparations that those people go thru.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
My neighbors cat, my girlfriends horse ( she does not read AR) and especially ugly coyotes.

And with any luck my friend, you and I will kill a few of those ugly coyotes tomorrow night out at the ranch!! Long range or short!!

You are correct, Saeed. I wound and miss animals (and targets) at short range, too.
Cheers, all.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
You are correct, Saeed. I wound and miss animals (and targets) at short range, too.
Cheers, all.
Cal

Maybe your weapons weigh too much!!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
You are correct, Saeed. I wound and miss animals (and targets) at short range, too.
Cheers, all.
Cal

Maybe your weapons weigh too much!!

Or they are just too old!!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
You are correct, Saeed. I wound and miss animals (and targets) at short range, too.
Cheers, all.
Cal

Maybe your weapons weigh too much!!

Or they are just too old!!

Or the shooter is....

Every time you guys pick on me I have to make one or more sessions with my therapist.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

While there are hunters who really have no business shooting at any range.

There, is why publicizing Long Range shooting bothers me. There are people out there that can not hit game at reasonable ranges, but, when reading about the exploits of those that can and do kill game at extended, the ones that do not have the ability will try the same shots as those that do, with out going thru all the preparations that those people go thru.

There is a lot of truth to what you say. My rifle has hold-overs to 1,000 yards. Combine that with a laser range finder and it would seem pretty easy to inexperienced people.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Every time you guys pick on me I have to make one or more sessions with my therapist.
Cal

Still using Cordite?

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
You are correct, Saeed. I wound and miss animals (and targets) at short range, too.
Cheers, all.
Cal

Stop using those little varmint calibers. Remember, "Use enough gun".

quote:

an unexpected movement by an animal has a much bigger chance of causing a miss or a wounded animal the further one shoots.

the most challenging animals Ive found to hit were when we startled mobs of pigs at close range,
...trying to quickly get the sights on them whilst they all rapidly dart off in all directions.
..whilst having to be very safety conscious of the other person(s) in ones group.

quote:

One reading this thread might get the impression that only those who shoot at long distances
miss and wound animals.

MIssing or hiting/wounding the actual animal[at any range] is not the only issue.

I believe incidences of recreational hunters who are shot by other rec. hunters,
[or PHs shot by their clients]....happen at relatively close hunting ranges.
Where people panic at situations,..reacting ineptly, causing dangerous-potentially fatal mishaps.
..or firing rashly at some movement or mere glance, of something in the nearby foliage.

LR hunters tend to have more time to view,select and properly indentify their quarry,
taking more time to decide & prepare for the shot.
LR hunters like other hunters, miss and wound game,
But I dont hear of LR hunters shooting-killing anyone at LR.

I hate to get off topic ... or, back on topic as it is here, but did anyone else notice the letter in the back of the SCI magazine addressing the new format of the magazine? Last page.

Basically, it says, 'We have heard your complaints and praises about the new format. etc etc.'

It clearly states that money is the reason. Save money, spend more on conservation.

Just an observation.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Saying you should punch your tag if over 400 yards is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

I have the right set up, practice all the time and have the confidence to make it happen.

Shot my last elk at 574 yards and he ran 20 yards and was done.

Don't judge just because you cannot do it.

Little Joe:

CR didn't say can't shoot that far, but only those who do should be 100 percent absolutely sure they can kill that animal. So if you shoot and the animal can't be found, you assume you hit it and punch your tag. After all, if you are such a great shot at long range, you wouldn't miss.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
CR didn't say can't shoot that far, but only those who do should be 100 percent absolutely sure they can kill that animal.

Thats good advice,. and It would be good if the 'inclose' hunters could follow the same principle.
Fact is, fair number of them dont necessarily know if they can assuredly kill their DG at close-range encounters.
If one can afford a big-bore and a hunt, you more or less 'qualify' for a DG hunt.
If PHs only took on clients who were 100% sure the client could do the job, they would be long out of business.
PHs need to have the mindset that may have to do all the shooting from the get go,
cause they cant reliably rely on novice hunter clients to do anything correct right from the start
or anywhere through to the end.

IF I was given the task of breaching a building where some mean bad guys were held up,
who were intent and highly capable of fatally harming me and my team,
the last thing I would want is a person on my team that was a mostly untested novice.
Unlike the DG hunting industry,..He would not be on my entry-team no matter how much money he could afford to throw around.

I like the bit about being 100 percent sure of killing the animal you are shooting at.

I can categorically say that there is no one. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US.

Who has achieved that feat if he has ever shot more than one animal.

I can go and sit by a waterhole in a farm in South Africa, and pretty well guarantee one shot kills on any animal I shoot.

Hunting free roaming animals, where one has to track, follow, and run after an animal, one is going to miss and wound some.

Regardless of the distance.

'Hunting' should mean stalking, into close range.
Leave 'shooting' to the target-boys on the range.

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:
'Hunting' should always does mean stalking, into close range.
Leave 'shooting' to the target-boys on the range.

This is becoming rather funny.

If one really wants to make it sporting, leave the rifle at home.

Kill the animal with your bare hands

THAT is what I would call sporting

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_500:
Discussing hunting "ethics" on a forum like this is a bit like coming to a discussion with a large group of people and asking "what woman should I find attractive?".

The fact is that many of the contributors have different experiences and belief systems that influence their answers. And I would expect many of those answers to change over time as peoples life experience continues to influence their thinking.

To me, the bottom line is that as hunters we need to stop squabbling with each other over what are essentially nuances of a lifestyle choice.

If we all put this much energy into fighting the anti-hunter, anti-gun crowd, we would all be far better off.

I never thought we were fighting!

I thought we were expressing our own choices of hunting.

This is actually no different than those who like to hunt with a bow and arrow, or use open sights.

I would not even dream of hunting with open sights, as I know my own limitations with my eyes.

I would not even dream of hunting with a bow and arrow. Because I have never used them before.

But, I would never tell others not to use open sights, doubles or bow and arrow.

You are absolutely right Saeed.
It's about discussing topics and expressing opinions.
I for one hunt with primitive bow and wooden arrows and would never touch compound, on the other hand I readily grab rifle in rifle season and head off to the woods.
I will not shoot past two hundred yards, but that is my own choice of not hunting with magnum cartridge and not practicing at long range.
LOVE THE FORUM GENTS.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I enjoy shooting at gongs at 500 to 1000 yards. There are 2 key variables to it that make it a hobby I will not extend to game. First is wind drift especially cross canyon shooting here in Idaho. You can have several winds affecting your bullet such that it may be pushed left then up then left again then down all before it gets to the gong. You wouldn't believe how far off you can be.
Second is time of flight. That elk over yonder at 700 yards has a scary amount of time to move while the bullet is in flight. He might take a step or 2 or whatever and you shoot him in the guts even if your as great a long distance shot as you think you are.
No thanks, I respect the game differently, and enjoy the difficulty of getting close.

I'll stick to gongs at distance and game up close.

Well said. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, friends and I competed regularly in silueta metalicas league competition in Sonora, Mexico, shooting steel animal targets offhand from 100 to 500 meters away.

What we learned about the variables of wind and the time it took for a bullet to reach a target make me shudder when I see videos or hear others talk about killing game at long distances.

Bill Quimby

I'm not a great long range shot, but I and my friends used to shoot crows regularly at 300 yards in Montana, mule deer and elk out to 400 yards also was somewhat commonplace. My experience with hunting elk was that they were often shot running inside of 20 yards in the black timber, an occasional 150 yard shot down a meadow or a 300 yard plus shot across a canyon. I would only take the latter if I had time to find something for a rest. If you shoot a lot (a couple of thousand rounds a year at long range) and work at it, and your rifle is accurate it really doesn't get difficult until you're out past 600 yards.

That being said, if I had a shot at a 10' brown bear at 300 yards or no shot and a good rest without too much wind, I'd take it if the guide was willing. I'd much rather shoot him at 10 yards since the thrill of hunting DG for me at least is getting up close. I've never hunted buffalo yet but hope to get within 50 yards when I do, since I probably will only get to do it once or twice.

To each his own, I respect each hunters decision and abilities.