The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting elephant...how close can you go?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| elephant...how close can you go? | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
I have a question for the PH's here. I posed it once in another existing thread that faded away with no responses so I'll take another kick at the cat. You have a client hunting elephant. He desires to get in as close as possible for the shot. Would his choice of cartridge influence just how close you would be willing to go? Many have commented that the .375 is sufficient for elephant, but would you as a PH require that a .375 user take the shot from further away than, say, someone shooting a Lott? Or would you consider other factors such as marksmanship, excitability, etc. as more important in your decision? John | ||
|
One of Us |
This last part is what I would consider. Caliber would have very little influance on how close I am prepared to take a client in Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
|
| One of Us |
Caliber is irrelevant. Has he hunted dangerous game before? how confident and good a shot is he, can he walk quietly? (most Americans cannot in my experience)...there are many aspects to - how close can you go. When you are guiding clients with bow's or handguns it is often necessary to get within 10 paces - in the jess, you often end up within ten paces anyway irrespective of what the client is carrying. | |||
|
| Administrator |
Sadly, I have been hearing that there have been quite an increase of elephants being shot in "self defence". Because the PH wanted to get "as close as possible". This is a very sad turn of events. | |||
|
one of us |
I think this is mostly because they want to get a charge on video ... to make money. I am as naive as they get, but have subsequently seen how easy it is to get an elephant to charge. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you hunt in the thick stuff, you will likely end up well inside the animal's tolerance zone to get a shot. It isn't about getting the video, but exciting situations and pictures sometimes result. | |||
|
| One of Us |
If you are good you can get darn-near as close as you like! I've had charges result in point-blank shots....Not preferred, but it does make sure that your shot / shots have to count! It is really unbelievable just how fast an Elephant can close the distance!! As far as calibers go, Shot placement is the single most deciding factor when they get in close....375 and up are the obvious choices. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Unfortunately true- and there are a disproportionate number of bow hunts for Buff that end in a charge by an animal other than the one being hunted. In an ideal world one could say that if you (the client) want to get within say 15 paces and an animal gets shot in self defence, it is to your account. Cannot see it happening though. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Is that not the same sort of system that people like Buzz Charlton probably agree with their clients before going in to close quarters with tuskless etc. I guess Mark Sullivan must do the same, he pushes the limits too and often shoots the clients animals in self defence. Can anyone say whether or not either of them or others who hunt in similar fashion have a prior agreement that the client pays for the luxury of getting up really close etc. or is the game department/reserve footing the bills? | |||
|
One of Us |
This quite true and a point I have raised before as well. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
One of Us |
The question of 'how close is too close' when hunting elephant is an interesting one, and this past February the African Society of Safari Hunters Ltd. made an attempt to resolve it. Rather than simply categorize an animal species as 'dangerous game', they have instead instituted a sliding scale that will go into effect in 2012, taking into consideration the relative risk the PH undertakes with his client. To the issue at hand, the draft proposal would have hunting elephant look something like this: 1) Shooting elephant within 30 meters = Dangerous Game 2) Shooting elephant within 30-40 meters = Hazardous Game 3) Shooting elephant within 40-50 meters = Rancorous Game 4) Shooting elephant within 50-75 meters = Acrimonious Game 5) Shooting elephant within 75-100 meters = Aggravating Game 6) Shooting elephant within 100+ meters = Petulant-but-Still-Kind-of-Dangerous Game PHs will be permitted to structure a new tariff system to these categories, charging a premium fee for hunting Dangerous Game as opposed to more pedestrian (and inexpensive) Rancorous Game. New hunters may be limited to only shooting Acrimonious Game until they have demonstrated their proficiency at shooting under pressure and/or tipping. Kim Merkel Double .470 NE Whitworth Express .375 H&H Griffin & Howe .275 Rigby Winchester M70 (pre-64) .30-06 & .270 "Cogito ergo venor" René Descartes on African Safari | |||
|
| one of us |
Kind of depends on the amount of cover and when the ele figures out the jig is up dont you think? Happiness is a warm gun | |||
|
one of us |
"Elepant...how close can you go?" That depends on how likely you are willing to take a chance on becomeing toe jam! I can assure you the closer you get to any very dangerous game the more important the shot placement will become, and less likely you will be able to place that shot perfectly, and/or get off a back-up shot in time if you don't place it right! ALTERNATIVE........................R.I.P.  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
One of Us |
So, let me ask the question in reverse ... How far should a hunter be from an elephant for that first shot? What's the magic distance so that one is close enough to be hunting elephants rather than shooting but far enough not to hurt the delicate sensibilities of the AR crowd? NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
EXCELLENT Kim! Then I can choose how the elephant or I want to die!  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| one of us |
DOC the delicate sensibilities asside! The absolute longest distance "I" would shoot at an unwounded elephant is 100 yds, and then only if I couldn't get closer,on a real trophy elephant, and had a very open heart/lung shot. I would never attempt even a side brain shot at anything over 50 yards even with a very accurate scoped rifle at a stationary undisturbed target. The above is not a reccomendation to others but is a personal limit I place on myself! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
One of Us |
A .375 is minimum for Ele and is adequate. I don't hunt anything with "adequate" calibers, especially when the something in question can hurt you very quickly. And yeah, I killed my first bull Ele with a .375H&H back in 1998, and then immediately started looking for a bigger gun. I will be taking a tuskless with my .458Lott this September in Zim, at what I expect will be "close" range. I would consider 50 yards a "long" shot at Ele. JMO Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
|
One of Us |
Wonder how many folks here have unexpectedly found themselves within 15-20 yds of elephant? Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
one of us |
I'd ask my PH to get as close to Ian Nyschens' judgement on Ideal distance (for head shot that is): 16 yds for Frontal brain shot 12 yds for Side brain shot  In theory that is... | |||
|
| One of Us |
 me! (and that's how I felt..."small") JW | |||
|
| One of Us |
Me too. Stood there like an idiot with my jaw on my chest as a big brown garage and a couple of brown garden sheds shuffled around in 8 foot grass. I was just getting the brain in gear when they ran off. Excellent learning experience. Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have to add me as well though I was hunting Cape buffalo at the time. I couldn't understand who the hell had started a diesel engine a dozen or so yards to my left while my father was lining up to brain his buff. Then that "truck" pulled into view. Not smart enough to reaize how close I was to becoming toe lint, I refocused on backing up my father as Jumbo lumbered away. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sounds fair to me. What about if you had only an unscoped double? NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| one of us |
Well normally that is the way I would be armed if hunting Elephant. A frontal brain shot I would attempt at no more that 18-30 yds, with sticks, side brain shot at about the same. A heart/lung shot at a standing elephant a long shot would be 60 yds, but would prefer 40 yards or less. A going away shot at a wounded, but fleeing elephant I would keep shooting till I either stopped him or he was out of sight, no matter what rifle I was useing! Of course all these are hypothetical shots, and in the bush things change with lighting bush conditions, and nearness to boundries, and time of day. IOW, there are no set rules that never change! Would I reccomend any of this to others? Hell no, they can pick their own way to choose to die!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
That'll be me in 6 months - that's why I'm askin'  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| one of us |
Good luck Doc! Wish I was there to back your play! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
One of Us |
Vaughan and I got within 20 yards of this old boy and seven other bulls when I took the shot and dropped him in his tracks.  Close enough! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
| One of Us |
VERY nice Michael! Booked our flights today - can't wait. Thanks, Paul NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks Mac - it woudl be my honor to have you there to do so. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| one of us |
The most important thing is knowing where to shoot the elephant. Without that it doesn't much matter what you are shooting or how close or far. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
Proper PH ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
One of Us |
This seems to be about average for me and my handguns:  I didn't choose to shoot this Elephant, but hunting the big guys is pretty exciting whether the shot is taken or not. When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have taken elephants as close as five yards and as far as 90. For most of us the most comfortable distance would be as Nyschens recommends 12 to 16 yards for brain shots. The exact distance that you should take them will vary depending on how accurately you can shoot your rifle, how calm you can stay under stressful conditions and how well you know the paths to the brain from various distances and angles. The less skill you have in these areas the closer you will have to get. 465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks to all for the comments and opinions. The question was not so much one of how close is ideal, or how close most prefer to come. I was wondering if a PH would look at your rifle and think to himself "He's shooting a .375...I'm not taking him any closer than 50 yards...too bad he hasn't got a .458". The concensus seems to be that factors other than caliber are more important to this decision. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting elephant...how close can you go?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia