Saeed? Is this true?

http://ameerashipping.com/?p=135

Please be advised that effective 15th May 2015 Emirates SkyCargo will not accept any kind of animal “Hunting Trophies” for carriage on Emirates services. This restriction shall be applicable to all animal hunting trophies, protected under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), as well as includes species, that are not threatened with extinction now, meaning all CITES & Non-CITES species.

This decision is to support international governments, intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations, that are managing wildlife population towards sustaining the task to eliminate illegal trade and transportation of hunting trophies worldwide and saving wildlife heritage.

list 1
list2
list 3

This notification provides permission to complete transportation of all those shipments, where Air waybill date is 14th May 2015 or earlier, containing the above.

quote:

This decision is to support international governments, intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations, that are managing wildlife population towards sustaining the task to eliminate illegal trade and transportation of hunting trophies worldwide and saving wildlife heritage.

amazing the perception that endures - i guess if you are told it enough times perception becomes reality -

Wow things are really spiraling downhill. Emirates carried my trophies back a year or so ago

Gangsters.......

None are as blind as those who will not see.

If it was April 1st I would call BS...but sadly...it is not April 1st.

so what effect will this and SAA decision not to transport trophies and the anti pressure on Delta have on our ability to transport trophies both (cites) 1,2,3

Delta is not backing down.

Some airline company will see this as an opportunity I am not to worried, however what a bunch of BS from SAA and Emirates they will not see a dime of my $$ again.

Re Delta, bottom line, it is a publicly traded company and its management has one primary duty and that is to increase shareholder value.

It is difficult to see how any business decision based on some sort of libtard bullshit about wildlife can increase shareholder value. On the other hand, Delta could generate additional revenue and market share moving freight where its competitors have exited the market.

Perhaps it is time for each of us in mass to contact Emirates and SSA that we will no longer fly with them as long as the refuse to carry our legally harvested trophies.

Bob

What about shipping by boat?
Isn't it still a viable option?
Maybe slow, but should be safe and cheaper?
All kinda stuff goes on sea lines

Saeed, please call your cousin and get this sorted!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
http://t.co/MqbWW6mnuA

Jesus H Christ
Scary times for us, minority

Here is the latest from SCI on Delta: Delta Air Lines Will Continue to Ship Hunting Trophies
SCI is pleased to announce that Delta Air Lines will continue to ship hunting trophies, although some other air cargo carriers have announced plans to stop doing so. In spite of the efforts of anti-hunters to pressure Delta to discontinue trophy shipments, business at Delta will continue as usual. Delta released the following statement in response to a petition requesting that the company change its policy concerning the shipment of “exotic” animal hunting trophies:

Delta accepts hunting trophies in accordance with all U.S. domestic and international regulations, which prohibits the possession of trophies or other
items associated with protected species. Customers are required to produce detailed documentation of trophies to U.S. Customs and Border Patrol
officials as their trophies undergo inspection.

SCI thanks Delta for not allowing the prejudices of anti-hunters to overcome the scientific evidence that shows that the hunting and importation of sport-hunted animals provides invaluable support for wildlife and habitat management and conservation, including anti-poaching efforts. Unfortunately, some other international cargo shippers have chosen to stop shipping some or all hunting trophies. South African Airways Cargo recently announced an embargo on the shipment of rhino, elephant, tiger, and lion trophies. Emirates SkyCargo has announced that as of May 15, 2015, it will not accept any kind of hunting trophies for carriage on Emirates’ services. Emirates states that its restriction will apply to all “CITES & Non-CITES listed species.”

SCI is currently working to reverse existing cargo shipment restrictions and prevent new ones. SCI hopes that other cargo shippers will follow Delta’s lead and place science and reason over prejudice and ignorance. We will update you as we receive more information. Anna Seidman at aseidman@safariclub.org.

The one thing about this that I am wondering about is that the website with the info is ameerashipping.com while Emirates SkyCargo is skycargo.com

I have sent a request into skycargo to see if it is their policy or if they have any information on it.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Saeed, please call your cousin and get this sorted!

Now that was funny

quote:

Originally posted by AK145:

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Saeed, please call your cousin and get this sorted!

Now that was funny

I didn't think it was a joke!! I suspect Saeed is asking some searching questions. Sure hope he is.

Good luck Saeed!!

damn, i am flying Emirates next week to Joburg instead of my usual flight via Abu Dabhi on Etihad. if this continues, it will be my first and last Emirates flight

I hope these air lines realize that many hunters will not fly on their air lines even if they are not transporting trophies! I surely won't.


465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck32:
The one thing about this that I am wondering about is that the website with the info is ameerashipping.com while Emirates SkyCargo is skycargo.com

I have sent a request into skycargo to see if it is their policy or if they have any information on it.

A search on sky cargo for "trophies" or "hunting" only brings up two old documents and not the above press release

Here is what I received back from Emirates:

"Dear Mr. Caunck32

Below information is correct. Hunting Trophies are prohibited for carriage on Emirates Effective 15th May 2015.

Thanks & Regards,

Jeniffer D’souza
For Emirates SkyCargo | e-Service


So it looks like I will be avoiding Emirates until they pull their collective heads out of there &);-.

So what is the point of CITES?

quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
So what is the point of CITES?

Precisely.

Death by a thousand cuts........ slowly but surely the anti-hunting crowd is gaining ground through many different and creative avenues.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by AK145:

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Saeed, please call your cousin and get this sorted!

Now that was funny

I didn't think it was a joke!! I suspect Saeed is asking some searching questions. Sure hope he is.

Though I suspect (as in most areas of the MENA region) "everything is illegal, but anything is possible" in the UAE, I really can't imagine prominent families in the Emirates effectively being forced to even theoretically take their OWN business away from the national carrier. Complete silliness.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
So what is the point of CITES?

Precisely.

Death by a thousand cuts........ slowly but surely the anti-hunting crowd is gaining ground through many different and creative avenues.

The next time someone says, "Petitions and boycotts don't work", mention this ban by airlines on hunting trophies. The horrible reality is that the anti-hunters are more vocal than we are...more willing to be the squeaky wheel. We need to change that or we are finished. We need to strike back at airlines and do so hard and fast. Where is SCI in organizing said boycotts?

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
So what is the point of CITES?

Precisely.

Death by a thousand cuts........ slowly but surely the anti-hunting crowd is gaining ground through many different and creative avenues.

The next time someone says, "Petitions and boycotts don't work", mention this ban by airlines on hunting trophies. The horrible reality is that the anti-hunters are more vocal than we are...more willing to be the squeaky wheel. We need to change that or we are finished. We need to strike back at airlines and do so hard and fast. Where is SCI in organizing said boycotts?

Give SCI a little time. SCI and SCI alone got this done on the Delta matter. Geography made it easier to deal with Delta.

They are working on the others.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Some airline company will see this as an opportunity I am not to worried

How true. I took the time last night to request two quotes for shipping an imaginary container of trophies from JNB to DFW. I used the dimensions and weight of the last I shipment received which was shipped on DELTA.
One quote I requested from an air cargo company operating in SA, the other I requested from a freight broker here in the US. I had both quotes this morning when I turned my computer on. The quote from the freight broker was a very few dollars less than the direct quote from the air cargo company; however, both quotes were a couple of hundred dollars less than I paid to have the container shipped via Delta earlier this year. I don't think this move will hurt hunters too badly and I bet it will be only a few days before some enterprising company is advertising a trophy shipping service, much like the services that sprang up offering to get ITN's for hunters wishing to take their firearms out of the country.

Karl & friends:

Just got off the phone with FedEx. They have NO prohibitions about shipping game parts at all.

Emirates Skycargo it the freight/ cargo division of Emirates Airlies who transport passengers.

Here's their Wikipedia History.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_SkyCargo

Here are the top 10 air freight airlines. Emirates Skycargo ranks 9th place.

http://www.supplychaindigital....ir-Freight-Companies

___________________________________________

Now my dissertation. We, all inclusive, have a dismal and embarrassing past history of greed, irresponsibility. Here in the USA our ancestors obliterated 43 million bison in just a couple of decades for the hides! Our abundant elk suffered the same fate. Our wild tukey's too. And our deer. At the hands of our predecessors who were existence living and harvesting game for suvival in the late 1.700's. 1,800's and early 1,900's.

The fate of African game is the same deplorable decliner of species everywhere and even in my long lifetime I have seen the alarming decline species due primarily to poaching.

The elephants, gorillas, black and white rhinos, cats, lions/leopards are shrinking dramatically and if the trend continues in the next 4 or 5 decades we will be lucky if we have anything left to harvest.

Some African game farmers are fencing and propagating. Here in the US there is a proliferation of game farms fenced wherein the many species are raised and available for target practice.

I'm confidant that the vast majority of my fellow hunters who post here are ardent conservationist who want responsible control within common sense.

As to the radical liberal, anti anything, opponents to hunting, they miss the target.

I would hope that some day they would wake up and realize that there is a difference between the fee paying Safari hunters that contribute largely to the economy and provide vital sustenance to needy, undernourished natives and the renegades that are decimating the game.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by stuey:
So what is the point of CITES?

Precisely.

Death by a thousand cuts........ slowly but surely the anti-hunting crowd is gaining ground through many different and creative avenues.

The next time someone says, "Petitions and boycotts don't work", mention this ban by airlines on hunting trophies. The horrible reality is that the anti-hunters are more vocal than we are...more willing to be the squeaky wheel. We need to change that or we are finished. We need to strike back at airlines and do so hard and fast. Where is SCI in organizing said boycotts?

While I agree with you, I think it's easier to be squeaky when you want something stopped, not something to continue.

Saying "Let us keep flying our trophies home!" doesn't exactly make sense. It's much easier being anti anything, which in our easily offended society is fairly common these days.



While I applaud Delta and am proud that I ONLY fly Delta when I go over, I worry that SAA closing trophy shipments down will cause issues from countries like Zim that have to use SAA to ship to RSA then out from there. Delta obviously doesn't fly to Bulawayo. I supposed they could drive them down, or maybe there are other airline carriers (My Zim trophies flew in on SAA).

We certainly need to wake up. Things are changing rapidly and rarely in our favor.

quote:

Originally posted by venda axe:
Perhaps it is time for each of us in mass to contact Emirates and SSA that we will no longer fly with them
as long as the refuse to carry our legally harvested trophies.

Bob

That will just give them even more reason to strip their jets of economy seating capacity,
and refit for the luxury big dollar customers.

i.e;
to cater to people who bring their pet falcons onboard and book a 1/2 the jet out for their
small private entourage.

Hunters are just small minnows amongst their cashed up customer base of truly serious money spending flyers.

Hunters and their trophies in the hold, don't make the grade in that regard.


Carriers like Ethiad advertise to specifically to draw the regular high level customer,
and Emirates services heavily compete with them in that extremely lucrative-important regional customer base sector.

http://www.luxuo.com/wp-conten...residence-lounge.jpg


Love this one:
http://i.imgur.com/3dGG6Fo.jpg ...

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:
Karl & friends:

Just got off the phone with FedEx. They have NO prohibitions about shipping game parts at all.

Unfortunately FedEx's own website makes this proclamation:

quote:

Animals, Dead: FedEx prohibits the international shipment of dead animal carcasses or parts. This includes taxidermy and animals or animal parts otherwise prepared for mounting or display.

or at least it does when you try to get an online dummy quote of a package from Zambia to Australia https://www.fedex.com/ratefind...ng=&isPrevFlag=false

Gentlemen:

While posting and sharing info here is a great value, I think just pissing an moaning about it amongst ourselves is pretty must just preaching to the quire. The "anti", while fewer in overall numbers are just better organized and MUCH more vocal then "we" are as a hunting community. And while there are multiple national and international organizations that help represent us, WE as a wildlife conservation through well regulated hunting need to become more active and more vocal than the "anti" crowd. WE need to be dealing with facts and not playing on emotions as they do.

To that end, here is a link to the SAA website with the email addresses to its senior management. SAA Departments

And here is a letter I drafted and sent (slightly modified for each department) earlier this week.

SAA Customer Service – Please Forward To Executive Management

I recently read about SAA Cargo Department imposing a ban on the transport/shipment of hunting trophy taxidermy. While I understand SAA has every right to decide where it flies and what it carries, I think this ban was not fully thought through and was based on emotions and not logical or economic impact to both SAA and the RSA economy as a whole. Every legitimate sport hunter finds poachers and the act of poaching itself abhorrent and the penalty for those caught can’t be high enough.

The truth is, while the SAA ban may satisfy an emotional response, it will do little to nothing to stop poaching. Nearly all poached animals and animal parts are smuggled out by overland methods, cars, trucks, horseback etc., to other less or even unregulated points of air and sea departure. The other effect SAA’s ban will have is simply moving the LEGAL export of LEGALLY permitted and licensed sport hunted trophies to LEGAL surface (land and sea) export businesses. The net effect for the LEGAL hunter is lower overall shipping costs than by airfreight with just a few weeks longer for the shipments to arrive.

Every legitimate hunter willingly follows the laws, rules, regulations, licensing and permitting requirements established by governments. Sport hunters provide a significant economic benefit to the economy as well as the driving force behind the huge increases in wildlife populations in RSA as detailed in this article from RSA’s Finacial Mail website from 12 Apil 2012 - http://www.financialmail.co.za.../04/10/game-industry and an additional article from the American Hunter Web site - http://www.americanhunter.org/...g-africa-s-wildlife/

The bottom-line is, while SAA’s ban on LEGALLY hunted and LEGALLY exportable trophies will only be a minor unconvinced to the LEGAL sport hunter, the economic impact to SAA could be significant due to loss of cargo revenue but more importantly due to sport hunters choosing to boycott SAA passenger service. My wife and I travel several times a year to or through RSA to other destinations in southern Africa. Since there are other airlines available to reach our travel needs and destinations, if SAA is unwilling to carry our LEGAL cargo, then we will be unwilling to use SAA as our passenger airline in the future.

I sincerely hope the Executive Management of SAA seriously reconsiders it’s position on this and soon.

v/r


As usual, feel free to cut/paste/edit as you will. Will the above have any effect - who knows other then this is the kind of strategy the "antis" employ and it seems to be having a detrimental effect on us. There are a little over 47,000 registered members on AR. If even half of them are "regulars" here and even half of them contact several SAA offices that is still over 10,000 emails hitting the CEO's and every other senior management In Box - it has to have at least SOME effect. Get off your butts and DO SOMETHING! If we as a group are not even willing to take just a few minutes do a little simple "clicking", cutting and pasting then maybe we don't hold our conservation through well regulated hunting convictions that strongly and the animal rights and anti hunting group will win.

quote:

Originally posted by GBE:

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:
Karl & friends:

Just got off the phone with FedEx. They have NO prohibitions about shipping game parts at all.

Unfortunately FedEx's own website makes this proclamation:

quote:

Animals, Dead: FedEx prohibits the international shipment of dead animal carcasses or parts. This includes taxidermy and animals or animal parts otherwise prepared for mounting or display.

or at least it does when you try to get an online dummy quote of a package from Zambia to Australia https://www.fedex.com/ratefind...ng=&isPrevFlag=false

__________________________________________

GBE

Thankx;

I got back on the phone with FedEx and grilled them to run this to the ground. Thanks also for nailing this issue. I'm an old timer that has been around for a very long time and I learned any years ago that brevity is a curse that leads to misunderstandings. Thus a long time ago I became a very meticulous extremist.

Result of my second conversation with FedEx is VERY tricky, convoluted and shall we say not exactly duplicitous but fraught with whys - wherefores, if's and buts. Double speak, cover your butt, lawyer speak.

All of the provisos, if complied with - bottom line -, are that FedEx will ship your game.

* It has to be approved for export from the Country of origin,

* It cannot be certain prohibited such as ivory, endangered species and the like.

* It has to be approved in the USA by Fish and Wildlife as acceptable for import.

It is definitely convoluted and complex but from what I gather, if you jump through all of the hoops and comply it is do-able.

The other post above shows that there are lots of options/alternatives. However, they do not show some other countries that will ship such as China and Korea and more.

I personally do not have any opposition to the stringent regs required. I applaud the effort and support it. I have seen time and again, over and over the crooks, scum, that game the system and profit by illegal and extremely objectionable exploitation of all sorts of wildlife from exotic bird to the bigger species.

I say it's time to get personal. These NGO's and anti-hunting groups are run by people. Pick one organization, find out who the people are at the top and go from there. The possibilities are endless. I'm not suggesting anything illegal, but the possibilities are still endless.

IF a person was responsible for running an airline in the M.E. knowing that $20,000 flight bookings like this,
are sold out and in constant demand,

https://static-ssl.businessins...2_theresidence-1.jpg

and my business model is clearly indicating that:

such Opulent accommodations drive up profit margins and yield greater revenues per mile,

Then put yourself in their position.. and ask, Why would airline executives take much notice of a small squeaky wheel of hunters?

It reminds me of those millionaires or even billionaires, who feel they are important in their own town or country,
but when they go serious money places like Monaco or M.E., there are people there who can comfortably toss a coin for your personal fortune.

quote:

I say it's time to get personal. These NGO's and anti-hunting groups are run by people. Pick one organization, find out who the people are at the top and go from there. The possibilities are endless. I'm not suggesting anything illegal, but the possibilities are still endless.

I walked out of Safeway the other day only to have a rather insalubrious woman ask me if I wanted to sign a petition to stop the extinction of wildlife. I asked her what wildlife, where? "You know, elephant in Africa - poaching and all that. All it takes is a few dollars at customs and you can sneak in all the ivory you want."

"Really?"

"Yep. And all these animals too." She said as she pointed her thick nail across a line of text that read, "Tigers, Rhino, etc."

I said, "My friend just got back from Zimbabwe on an elephant hunt, how's that gonna work?"

"I dunno. Don't know nothin about that."

"But you want to stop the animal trade right?"

"Do you want to sign the petition?"

"No. Do you work for this organization?"

"Do you want to sign the petition or not? Otherwise you just obstructin'."

"I get it. So you are hired by some third party to stand out here and collect signatures. You don't even know who this group is, or what their plans are. So, you work for a third party right?"

"There are lots of companies around that do this. You can find then anywhere."

"BUt you don't even work for this company pushing the initiative?"

"Do you want to sign the petition?"

"No."

She then points to another signature board behind her little table and says, "DO you want to sign another petition about taxes in your local community?"

"No." And I walked off.

Keep in mind, her petition was full of signatures. She had a little table replete with plastic elephant and tiger props, and a big pink posterboard "SAVE ANIMALS FROM GOING EXTINCT" handwritten across it.

Folks. This is how the "other" side gets thousands of handwritten signatures on a petition. They go into low-income communities, give people a table, props, and signature sheets, and then ask them to bother people coming out of a grocery store. The shoppers, caught by the misleading title of the petition and a desire to not look rude, humor the petitioner and figure, "What the hell." There is no movement, there is only an ideology that knows how to generate enough response to make it look like one.

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:

quote:

Originally posted by GBE:

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:
Karl & friends:

Just got off the phone with FedEx. They have NO prohibitions about shipping game parts at all.

Unfortunately FedEx's own website makes this proclamation:

quote:

Animals, Dead: FedEx prohibits the international shipment of dead animal carcasses or parts. This includes taxidermy and animals or animal parts otherwise prepared for mounting or display.

or at least it does when you try to get an online dummy quote of a package from Zambia to Australia https://www.fedex.com/ratefind...ng=&isPrevFlag=false

__________________________________________

GBE

Thankx;

I got back on the phone with FedEx and grilled them to run this to the ground. Thanks also for nailing this issue. I'm an old timer that has been around for a very long time and I learned any years ago that brevity is a curse that leads to misunderstandings. Thus a long time ago I became a very meticulous extremist.

Result of my second conversation with FedEx is VERY tricky, convoluted and shall we say not exactly duplicitous but fraught with whys - wherefores, if's and buts. Double speak, cover your butt, lawyer speak.

All of the provisos, if complied with - bottom line -, are that FedEx will ship your game.

* It has to be approved for export from the Country of origin,

* It cannot be certain prohibited such as ivory, endangered species and the like.

* It has to be approved in the USA by Fish and Wildlife as acceptable for import.

It is definitely convoluted and complex but from what I gather, if you jump through all of the hoops and comply it is do-able.

The other post above shows that there are lots of options/alternatives. However, they do not show some other countries that will ship such as China and Korea and more.

I personally do not have any opposition to the stringent regs required. I applaud the effort and support it. I have seen time and again, over and over the crooks, scum, that game the system and profit by illegal and extremely objectionable exploitation of all sorts of wildlife from exotic bird to the bigger species.

After my post a pop up customer service online chat portal popped up from Fed Ex and I thought "what the hay, in for a penny and all that" so I asked a few questions about importing skulls and skins avoiding the terms hunting trophies. Pointed out that they'd have vet certificates at the African end and I'd be clearing them with Australian customs paperwork at the airport.
After pointing out the website states non hazardous biological material is ok, and that I've made and cleared such shipments before with other companies the penny drops and the supervisor says yes, on the conditions we'll have to look up and email you...
So I check email and find this

quote:

Dear GBE,

Our counterparts in Zambia have advised that in order to ship these kind of items, the below is required:

Commercial invoice (prepare in 3 copies)
Phytosanitary certificate
Export permit (Zambia Wildlife Authority or ministry of livestock and fisheries)

Additional notes for Australia customs:

All items are permitted with entry conditions. Please see the links below for conditions relating to each item.

tanned Animal Skins
http://apps.daff.gov.au/icon32...rch=1&LogSessionID=0

Animal Skulls
http://apps.daff.gov.au/icon32...rch=1&LogSessionID=0

From a Customs perspective, you will need to ensure the goods are not subject to CITES

CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival.

Please check the list to ensure the species of skin / skull are not captured, otherwise permits to Export and Import will be required.

http://checklist.cites.org/#/en

Thank you.

Best Regards,
XXXXXXXX

So 24 hours for them to discover the paperwork needed is what I stated I would provide at the start of our exchange

I get the feeling it is easier for companies in this age of social media to have a broad declaration of "no hunting trophies" somewhere on their website for the antis to find to prevent twitter campaigns.
Furs, or reproduction antiques, or non hazardous biological specimens, or some other classification doesnt come under scrutiny but covers the same materials.

BaxterB; Greenpeace has long utilised the methods you describe, except they are more mercenary. Anyone you'd see here in a Greenpeace shirt is an employee of a marketing company employed on a quota basis to get x many subscription sign ups - with direct debits from credit cards - per week, failure to get quota means replacement with the next of Australia's large population of unemployed youth.

Does the NRA, or SCI or any others even contemplate using such marketing at gunshows, ranges etc when screaming for "fighting funds"?