Two British tourists were killed at the weekend near Hwange national Park. There are plenty of rumours, let alone whats in the government newpaper, but below is the offic il statement from the company.


Agents, Associates, Friends of The Hide.


It is with deep regret that we inform you that two of The Hide Safari Camp’s guests were tragically killed on Saturday morning.



The guests were walking with a guide who is a qualified professional hunter inside Hwange National Park. During the walk at approximately 10:45 am on Saturday the 24th of March 2007, the group was approached by a young elephant bull in musth which charged them.



The guide was knocked over after discharging his rifle but he was unable to stop the elephant. He is in hospital in a physically stable condition and fortunately a third guest with the group was not physically harmed.



As a result of this tragic event, The Hide has suspended all walking in the park from its list of activities until further notice. We have commenced a full investigation into this incident so that we can piece together a better understanding of the sequence of events.



The Directors, Management and Staff of The Hide Safari Camp have been severely shocked by this incident. While we are trying to come to terms with and fully comprehend this tragedy our foremost concerns and prayers are with the families who have lost their loved ones.



Directors, Management and Staff – The Hide Safari Camp

Very valid question, you ask.

It happens more and more that tourists wants to do a self catering tour to save cost, I remember a topic not to long ago about self catering hunts. Even if you know the bush and the animals, it is/can be dangerous.

In this case a qualified Ph could not save his own butt and those of the tourists, this unfortuneate things do happen and even the best ph can not always save every situation.

It is always sad when a human looses his life in this type of circumstances, but it could have been a motor car accident.

I do not think people always realise what dangers can wait for you in the bush.

There is a very good reason why clients must be accompanied by qualified people.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Two British tourists were killed at the weekend near Hwange national Park. There are plenty of rumours, let alone whats in the government newpaper, but below is the offic il statement from the company.


Agents, Associates, Friends of The Hide.


It is with deep regret that we inform you that two of The Hide Safari Camp’s guests were tragically killed on Saturday morning.



The guests were walking with a guide who is a qualified professional hunter inside Hwange National Park. During the walk at approximately 10:45 am on Saturday the 24th of March 2007, the group was approached by a young elephant bull in musth which charged them
The guide was knocked over after discharging his rifle but he was unable to stop the elephant. He is in hospital in a physically stable condition and fortunately a third guest with the group was not physically harmed.

<SNIP>

Some questions:
1. The guide was a 'qualified' PH. Is he a fully license Zimbabwean PH? Qualified, yes, but experienced? Elephant experience?
2. What did PH do when the bull 'approached' them? If the bull first approached them and then charged them one may assume that the PH knew that a charge was (possibly) coming?
3. Did he shoot for a brain shot? What rifle? Caliber?
4. Many more possible questions.

My sincere sympathy for the families of the tourists and the PH. Hope he recovers completely, also from the mental shock and anguish for 'letting down' the tourists placed in his care, which I'm sure he feels.

Whatever the circumstances asurrounding the event, it underscores that big animals are potentially dangerous!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Very sad indeed.

The rates at this camp are $285 per person per night which means it is not self catering. And most tourists don't have a clue about wild animals. They would assume the guides are experienced and they are safe if the camp offers bush walks.

On the walking safaris I've taken in non-hunting tourists camps we were escorted on the ground by a guide (not a PH) carrying a rifle and a driver with the vehicle following us at a distance close enough to rescue us. Most camps do not take this precaution.

I feel very sorry for the family of this couple as well as the owners/staff of this camp. What a nightmare.

Of course Ganyana knows best, but if I remember correctly, the guide designation has every "shooting" skill required that the P.H. designation does... and even more?

The simple truth is that an elephant can kill you and if he/she seriously wants to do so, all the shouting and "warning shots" may well be useless, and sooner or later, if you fool with enough of the beasts, you'll have to kill one or become apple butter. And everybody, regardless of usual skill and practice, can screw the pooch.

Elephants are dangerous. That's one of the reasons we like to be amonst them. Yet, we sometimes take them too much for granted. JMHO.

Isn't The Hide just across the railroad tracks from Malindi Station Camp? It's a pretty cool place, if so. I hope they survive this...

"The Hide" has a reasonable reputation from what I have been told. I considered staying there for a few days last year.

It will be interesting to see what the report says from the investigation.

I hope they are able to resume walking tours.

However walking in an area with dangerous game has its risks no matter what.

It just shows that the mandatory requirement to have a PH (or guide?) is not infallible other than removing the choice to hunt self-guided. And take the risks. Of course many should NOT take the risk! And in a park it would be moot anyway.

It is interesting to read old hunting books, many of the authors our modern day "vintage" "heroes" and read how when they began their careers how they were completely untested amateurs. I am just re-reading the "Maneaters of Tsavo" and it is very revealing how Patterson went about his hunting jaunts.

More details are emerging...

Andy Truvello was the Guide. He is a qualified PH and quite a good one. In terms of our PH licenses a PH is also alowed to guide.

Andy is still in hospital and cannot be faulted for putting himself first in line to protect his clients- why the elephant didn't stop to finish him and deliberately went after the two women can only be guessed at. The elphant was in Musht and if it was that time of the month...I know that is a problem with female clients and lions but don't know about elephants.

If Andy can be faulted it was the "usual" PH turned pro guides mistake of trying too hard not to shoot an animal in self defence in case of being blacklisted as a bloodthirsty hunter. I don't know the animals body language -I wasn't there. Andy got a shot off as the ele hit him and he went down under it trying to reload. The elephant didn't even pause but took off asfter the daughter and killed her, then szought out the mother who was hiding and killed her, ignoring the husband. Poor bloke then got the vehicle, drove it to the scene and helped andy to it.

No Doubt we will get the low down in due course - like what rifle Andy was using- but gather he couldn't get a head shot in anyway- the elephant charged over an ant hill and came down over the top of him.

Sounds awful for all concerned.

I have often wondered if a guide on a game viewing safari in dangerous game country - even if he is a trained and experienced PH - is as alert to danger, and as careful about his surroundings, noises and the wind, as he would be when hunting dangerous game.

It seems possible that, given the circumstances, the guide might be inclined to relax his vigilance, so as not to frighten his clients, or as a by-product of trying to be approachable and personable to them.

I know that I would not want to be in a situation like this one - afoot in dangerous game country - without a suitable rifle in my hands.

Such a terrible tragedy for all involved. Our best wishes for Andy's recovery and condolences to the husband. Losing both his wife and daughter must be unspeakable. I would like to know what country the family was from? Thanks for the updates Ganyana. LDK

A terrible shame. It can happen so fast.

I echo the sentiments of the others in that I am comfortable around elephant as long as I have a suitable rifle in my hands. As a general statement, the Hwange ele were well tempered, however, we kept reminding ourselves not to take them too lightly. Strange to think that my son and I were hunting in/around this very same area just over a week ago.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG: Isn't The Hide just across the railroad tracks from Malindi Station Camp?

I am pretty sure the photo camp we saw at one point was indeed The Hide, right across the tracks, as I recall near to some RR buildings.

Parallel Thread: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=564108646#564108646

The default reasoning some give from time to time of the "PH will save me" is shown not to always be the case.

Around elephants without a gun? Pure suicide.

I re-read my comments. They, perhaps, were too "mater-of-fact" and callous. I can't imagine losing a wife and daughter, regardless of the circumstances, but unless there was some gross negligence on the part of a participant, I'll just morn with the Daddy and the P.H. and say "stuff happens".

I hope someday to take my daughters to Africa and see elephants "do their thing". It is dangerous. There is a real risk. Odds are greatly against anything tragic happening, but living absent concrete and crowds makes one more alive. I'm willing to take the risk and will calculate a way to do so and still share the thing I love to do with those I hold dear to me.

Just three weeks ago I was crawling down a donga with elephants 20 yards away. My P.H. turned to me and said, "This is really stupid." It was. That's what I paid him for... good judgment. We let the elephants and humans live another day. But what if an elephant had burst from the jesse at five yard some ten minutes prior, until then unseen. Who knows. Would it be my P.H.'s fault if I got hurt... Probably not... and I paid hard earned money to put myself in that position. I wanted to be there. Hell, I live to be there. I have two more elephant hunts booked for 2008.

A celestical body may hit me in the head tomorrow as I sit "safely" in my office. A drunk my cross the centerline when I'm driving home from work next week.... and hit me or my daughter.
God forbid... the only solice I can give the poor father and the P.H. involved is that the ladies were really living when they died. That's one hell of a statement full of contrary terms and thoughts, but, damn, I'm going to do it again... and I hope with the ladies I love.

God bless the father and the P.H. for trying to share things more "alive" than sipping wine at the corner bistro.

I hope I make some sense. But I've flicked my lights hooked up to the cat at night and watched the man in the yellow vest drop the wand. Pretty close to the same kick in the ass. There is no logic to it. It is just a need.

Life if full of calculations. You pay your nickle and takes your chances... and your life is more full therefrom. JMHO.

I wonder why he missed the elephants brain?

This extract is from News24.com

Elephant kills tourists in Zim
26/03/2007 15:15 - (SA)

Harare - Two tourists died when an elephant charged them in western Zimbabwe, said the British embassy on Monday. A third one was admitted to hospital with serious injuries.

The identities of the tourists were being withheld until their families were informed. No further details were made available.

The Britons were on a game-viewing trip in the Hwange National Park on Saturday.

Police in the western provincial capital of Bulawayo and wildlife authorities reported investigations were under way to see whether the tour group's armed local guides had been negligent, though guides are often taken by surprise by the speed of such attacks.

Last year, Gianpaolo Tarabini, husband of Italian fashion designer Anna Molinari, was killed in an elephant attack in Zimbabwe.

Incidents go unreported

Elephants are the second most dangerous animals for humans in Zimbabwe, after crocodiles.

According to official figures of reported incidents, in 2005 elephants charged and trampled 12 people to death, including villagers trying to protect their crops from the giant herbivores that eat an average 300kg of fodder a day.

Other incidents go unreported in remote areas. No tally is available for last year.

Conservation groups say the elephant population in the western Hwange Park, the nation's largest nature reserve, has soared in the absence of regular culling measures to control the population and avert further damage to the habitat of elephant herds foraging for diminishing food sources.

Poaching, erratic rains and breakdowns of pumping equipment at manmade watering holes have affected elephants - notoriously skittish under stress - in the Hwange Park.

A sad incident for the families of the two tourists and the surviving one, for the PH who hopefully recovers, and the lodge for the bad publicity they will get.

Just shows the African bush is not far removed from a walk in a city park even if at quite rare times.

But what an aweful thing for the father to be part of.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
As a general statement, the Hwange ele were well tempered, however, we kept reminding ourselves not to take them too lightly.

Bill,

Are you sure about this? It was some years ago, but I was told about Hwange elephants being very "frisky" and far more incidents happening (but not deaths) than is ever reported.

Hwange elephants are by and large the easiest going elephant in Zim. Considering the amount of interaction they do have with people there surprisingly few incidents occur.

Musth bulls are by definition unstable and should be given a wide berth unles you wish to shoot the animal.

I would side with Ganyana in saying that in a non-hunting situation, "when to shoot" is the critical decision. My belief is inside ten yards with elephant it is time to shoot, and this has stood me in good stead.

Andy Trivella is an experienced guide and hunter and The Hide a top notch operation, yes based on the Park side of the railroad near Kennedy Siding.

This should definitely be filed as "stuff happens" and condolences to all concerned.

The present situation in Zim can also have an effect on animal behaviour. The high unemployment figure and inflation makes it even more impossible to feed this poverty stricken nation. Reports that I read lately shows that there is a lot of poaching, not so much for illigal trade, but to feed themselves. Human encroachment and poaching will have an effect on animal behaviour. Poaching will be in the wildlife areas, which will stress up especially the elephant population.

This whole episode is very sad and tragic it is a terrible loss for the family.

It again prove how unpredictable wild animals can be. I do not think any blame could be put on the guide, he must live with the deaths of this clients for the rest of his life.

A Tragic incident indeed, and one that I'm sure will make many look at the situations they put themselves in, in a different light. It's why there is a "D" in DG.. Not to mention the fact that PH's/Guides are just human too and not some kind of super hero that will always pull the situation out of the fire.

Is there any mention of what happened to the Ele? I'm assuming that it gets PAC'd?

FB

Is PH Barry Wohhuter still the manager of "THE HIDE"?
To happen with such a outfit is incredible.
ozhunter

This is a real tragedy for all involved. There is no way I'm going to even attempt to second-guess Andy on this one. I am going to direct my comment to the entire concept of "Let's go walk with the wild Elephants". IMHO...this is a seriously flawed concept and sadly....every now and then someone pays the ultimate price. Going into the bush well armed and prepared to hunt is one thing. Strolling around the bush hoping for an "Elephant encounter" with unarmed tourists who have an expectation that they are safe...Not a good plan.
My condolences and prayers go out to all involved.
Don

Ozhunter- Barry is still the manager

Shootaway- Putting a bullet up through the chin into the brain is one hell of a shot! In any case, Andy isn't sure his bullet even hit the ele- The elephant came over the top of the anthill, and hit him just as he fired. I gather (second hand) that he thinks the elephant may have knocked his shot off to one side. He went down and was reloading when (presumably) the back foot caught his head knocking him out.

Andy had put the anthill between the elephant and his group so that they were out of sight - the elephant seeing them had caused the intial series of mock charges as the elephant closed from some 60 paces to about 15. I would have expected the ele to have come around one flank of the hill and not over the top - can quite understand not having ones eyes and rifle pointing in the right direction.

The old man is to blame for putting his wife and daughter at risk. Why sympathy or prayers for him?

I have often thought about taking my daughter with me on an elephant hunt, but it is just too damn dangerous.

I guess Andy proved you can run but not hide from elephants. A warning shot between its eyes may have been more effective.

Killer elephant 'was wounded'
27/03/2007 09:53 - (SA)
Harare - A British woman and her 10-year-old daughter were killed by a rogue elephant while her husband escaped unhurt during a hunting tour in southwestern Zimbabwe, state media reported on Tuesday.
The state-controlled Herald quoted an unnamed parks and wildlife authority official as saying Veronica Poker, 47, and her daughter Shallot died on the spot when they were attacked by a lone elephant which is believed to have been wounded, during a guided tour in the Hwange game park on Saturday.
It happened on Saturday mid-morning "when the three tourists who were accompanied by a tour guide were watching a lone elephant while they were hiding behind an anthill," the newspaper quoted the official as saying.
"It is reported that the elephant could have seen the people and started charging towards them."
He said wardens were deployed following the tragedy to track the elephant believed to be wounded.
"Wounded elephants are those that are normally aggressive," the official told the newspaper.
The official said the guide fired a shot to scare away the elephant but it kept on charging towards the touring party and trampled the guide who suffered a fractured pelvis before turning on the tourists.
National police spokesperson Wayne Bvudzijena referred questions to the police commander for the Matabeleland north province who could not be reached for comment.

quote:

As a general statement, the Hwange ele were well tempered....Bill, Are you sure about this? It was some years ago, but I was told about Hwange elephants being very "frisky".

John, yea, I am sure that I found the Hwange elephants [cows in particular] to be well-tempered, far less hostile then others I have encountered in the Caprivi, Luangwa, Zambezi, Save or even Masailand. I mean, we didn't get a full-blown charge or even a single confrontation or warning from the cows despite our known presence in their herds. Others may find different, but this is what I experienced. Buzz of course said too how easy-going they are versus the Zambezi cows that he us used to. (it was easy to let our guard down.) I don't know about the AK-poaching pressure, but they do get snared, as we saw a half-dozen at least with the tips of their trunks missing. As JT pointed out, this bull was reported to be in musth (or wounded per wazza's article?) so all bets are off. The bull we tracked in musth had a crazy look in his eyes. All it takes is one.....

As more info comes out, it seems as though Ganyana's initial thought may be right. The PH perhaps should have shot sooner but didn't.

The elephant was first seen from 60 yards out, then mock attacked with several bluff charges, then steadily closed in until he was 15 paces away.

This was not a case of the PH being caught entirely off guard.

If the bull was in musth, which is a fairly obvious condition, the PH had to have noticed that, too.

As for whether the elephant was wounded, I wonder how that info came to light?

In any case, there seems to have been plenty of reason for the PH to shoot.

One has to think that he probably would have if he hadn't been worried about the effect on his employer's business of having to kill an elephant to save his guests, the inevitable backlash from enviro-eco-idiots, the effect on the PH's ability to get a job as a "tour guide" given his obvious bloodthirstiness, the certain to occur governmental grilling and second-guessing and the yards of red tape.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
As more info comes out, it seems as though Ganyana's initial thought may be right. The PH perhaps should have shot sooner but didn't.

The elephant was first seen from 60 yards out, then mock attacked with several bluff charges, then steadily closed in until he was 15 paces away.

This was not a case of the PH being caught entirely off guard.

If the bull was in musth, which is a fairly obvious condition, the PH had to have noticed that, too.

As for whether the elephant was wounded, I wonder how that info came to light?

In any case, there seems to have been plenty of reason for the PH to shoot.

One has to think that he probably would have if he hadn't been worried about the effect on his employer's business of having to kill an elephant to save his guests, the inevitable backlash from enviro-eco-idiots, the effect on the PH's ability to get a job as a "tour guide" given his obvious bloodthirstiness, the certain to occur governmental grilling and second-guessing and the yards of red tape.

Be careful of reports from the Herald in Harare.

As they are rarely truthful (IMO) and usually look to put anything in the best light.

That wounding comment wasn't substantiated in any way.

Blaiming it on the PH would spin a better story than it just be bad luck.

Ganyana will know before the Herald anyway, wouldn't he?

Hindsight is alway's 20-20... Lots of Monday night quater backing going on..

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
As more info comes out, it seems as though Ganyana's initial thought may be right. The PH perhaps should have shot sooner but didn't.

The elephant was first seen from 60 yards out, then mock attacked with several bluff charges, then steadily closed in until he was 15 paces away.

This was not a case of the PH being caught entirely off guard.

If the bull was in musth, which is a fairly obvious condition, the PH had to have noticed that, too.

As for whether the elephant was wounded, I wonder how that info came to light?

In any case, there seems to have been plenty of reason for the PH to shoot.

One has to think that he probably would have if he hadn't been worried about the effect on his employer's business of having to kill an elephant to save his guests, the inevitable backlash from enviro-eco-idiots, the effect on the PH's ability to get a job as a "tour guide" given his obvious bloodthirstiness, the certain to occur governmental grilling and second-guessing and the yards of red tape.

Be careful of reports from the Herald in Harare.

As they are rarely truthful (IMO) and usually look to put anything in the best light.

That wounding comment wasn't substantiated in any way.

Blaiming it on the PH would spin a better story than it just be bad luck.

Ganyana will know before the Herald anyway, wouldn't he?

Nothing but my question about the wounding had anything to do with information gleaned from the newspaper. Precisely because it came from the newspaper, I questioned it.

All of the other information about the incident in my most recent post came from the statement of the company itself, or from Ganyana's posts, all as set forth above in this thread.

That said, I am no doubt speculating based on that information - more precisely, I am speculating that as more information comes out, it seems more and more as if Ganyana's initial speculation about this matter may be correct.

As for blame, there is plenty of that to go around in a case like this, but to put it bluntly, unless the tourists act stupidly (and that sometimes happens, although nothing about this incident suggests that these tourists did), the buck stops with the man holding the rifle.

From the Brit press:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/27/africa/AF-GEN...-Tourists-Killed.php

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The old man is to blame for putting his wife and daughter at risk. Why sympathy or prayers for him?

I have often thought about taking my daughter with me on an elephant hunt, but it is just too damn dangerous.

Will

After reading your post I shiver in my boots to think about "surviving" Ambroselli and a herd of elephants walking within a metre of my sleeping (and not sleeping) head! Had I not been inside a tent I probably would have crapped myself.

I must write a book, "Surviving the Camp Raider Elephants of East Africa!"

Seriously though it was amazing to see how tourists have no idea of how dangerous a herd of elephants are, running up too close to take photos when a herd wandered by.

The most serious incident in this camp was a car's boot (trunk) being ripped open as the ele's searched for food. The camp was completely unfenced and only a couple rangers with rifles as protection. Maybe it has changed since.

I once Canoed the lower Zambezi river and one evening at a camp (we set on an island adjacent to the Nyakasanga Safari area) one of the girls thought It would be nice to wash off at the River. I tried to tell her that this was a bad idea and that there is a reason we saw no locals doing the same.
She did so anyway.
Some people have no clue.
With a good guide it only reduces the chance for bad luck.
ozhunter

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The old man is to blame for putting his wife and daughter at risk. Why sympathy or prayers for him?

I have often thought about taking my daughter with me on an elephant hunt, but it is just too damn dangerous.

Will

After reading your post I shiver in my boots to think about "surviving" Ambroselli and a herd of elephants walking within a metre of my sleeping (and not sleeping) head! Had I not been inside a tent I probably would have crapped myself.

I must write a book, "Surviving the Camp Raider Elephants of East Africa!"

Seriously though it was amazing to see how tourists have no idea of how dangerous a herd of elephants are, running up too close to take photos when a herd wandered by.

The most serious incident in this camp was a car's boot (trunk) being ripped open as the ele's searched for food. The camp was completely unfenced and only a couple rangers with rifles as protection. Maybe it has changed since.

An excellent way to trash a car is to store a few oranges in it.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I once Canoed the lower Zambezi river and one evening at a camp (we set on an island adjacent to the Nyakasanga Safari area) one of the girls thought It would be nice to wash off at the River. I tried to tell her that this was a bad idea and that there is a reason we saw no locals doing the same.
She did so anyway.
Some people have no clue.
With a good guide it only reduces the chance for bad luck.
ozhunter

I don't know. You can't spit in the Zambezi without attracting crocs. I wonder about some folks.

Maybe she was trying to make the news

Oh, but its so warm and the water is so inviting.
Mind you so many of these eco tours push how safe it is with an armed ranger.
ozhunter

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I wonder why he missed the elephants brain?

Probably for the same reason he would miss yours: It's a very small target and in your case, even a lazer designator would not guarantee enough CEP* to hit it. jorge

* Circular Error Probable

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I wonder why he missed the elephants brain?

Only someone with no or limited elephant hunting experience would ask that question.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I wonder why he missed the elephants brain?

Probably for the same reason he would miss yours: It's a very small target and in your case, even a lazer designator would not guarantee enough CEP* to hit it. jorge

* Circular Error Probable

I would like to nominate this for POST OF THE YEAR, or at least post of the month.

I second the nomination and move that the board approve the motion.

Perry