JPK,how dare you hunt the Cowardly Lion in the Wizard Of OZ!

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
RIP

Are we "permitted" to question trolls on AR again, or is it still a "banning offence" to question whether someone is a troll?

NitroX,
I must have missed that one. If I am banned for this, then I did not see it coming.

Thanks for pointing out the latest etiquette to me.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
RIP and NitroX,who cares what YOU think! NitroX,have you ever shot that double in your picture or is it just for looks?

Just for looks of course!

Nah, never shot it.

I'm finding the "Ignore" function to be very efficient.

shootaway who?

...don't bother - remember the topic: So many tourist- or why qualified Guides are needed - it speaks for it self

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
JPK,how dare you hunt the Cowardly Lion in the Wizard Of OZ!

Gentlemen, with the post above and to apologies to my friend Forrest for quoting yet another member of the "Village Idiots Society," I think we've found dorkaway's rifle for "his" elephant here: dorkaway's rifle & ammo
And of course the answer to the content of his brain pan as well. Very dense and light. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Chris,votre pere avez raison!

Yes, my father was right - as you have just proven again.

And with each new post you make you prove him to have been right over and over again...

"Rather remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Hunting is the ability of a hunter to outwit his prey and it ends in the hunter killing his prey, in some cases the other way around. To shoot a animal from a distance proves your shooting skills , not your hunting skills.

It have been proven over ages that if you want to hunt at close quaters, iron sights are the best. If you can shoot with both eyes open, I know very few who can do it, I supose a scope can work.

How is it possible that all ph's and the salted DG hunters are wrong and the least experienced are right.

Some people are so full of themselves they will never learn. Maybe we should leave him to take a 50 m shot at a buff, stuff it up and let him carry the consequences. It should be funny to see the closure.

Jaco

It is impossible to outwit anything if, as in Shootaway's case, you are running only at 50% wit capacity.

Shootaway!

If you will never get within 50 yds. of DG then when you hunt elephants in the Jesse you will spend more time running bacwards than forwards!
465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Jim Manion,if you want to stay alive then listen to what I have to say.

I think there should be a law passed in africa to ban the use of a safety while African hunting.

Yes, but what if I was North American hunting in Africa?

Jorge,YOUR the guy who hunts Africa with a Weatherby. 465H&H,if it is a truly wild and healthy elephant I'll try and take him at 50 and if I have to get closer I would in a way that I would never take him off my eye.Proceed with alertness and extreme caution (with safety off).

N'gagi,why would you want to have use a safety even in North America? Are you scared you might accidently shoot yourself?

Jaco,there will be no consequences.I give money back guarantees(shot placement).

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Jaco,there will be no consequences.I give money back guarantees(shot placement).

Which is as good as no guarentee

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
RIP

Are we "permitted" to question trolls on AR again, or is it still a "banning offence" to question whether someone is a troll?

NitroX,
I must have missed that one. If I am banned for this, then I did not see it coming.

Thanks for pointing out the latest etiquette to me.

RIP

I think Nitro is referring to ErikD and Johann being banned for questioning ALP#4 for being Cats/Wynwood etc. and Saeeds protection of known trolls.

Shootaway

I'm sorry the Beetle fell off your Cork.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Jorge,YOUR the guy who hunts Africa with a Weatherby.465H$H,if it is a truly wild and healthy elephant I'll try and take him at 50 and if I have to get closer I would in a way that I would never take him off my eye.Proceed with alertness and extreme caution (with safety off).

Idiot: what in the wild, wild world of sports are you spewing? A {sic} Weatherby 465 H$H? what the hell is that?

First of all you need to use this symbol :& instead of this one ;$ to signify "and." IT's not hard, even a caveman can figure it out. Second, only in your cork-brained pinhead does such a rifle & caliber exist. I'll ammend my recommendation to autocastrate: Shift the cutting point from your scrotum to just below your Addam's apple. If you have a hard time figuring out where that is, drop O.J. Simpson a line, he's good at that. jorge

What was that "wrestling with pigs ....." quotation again?

"....... they just enjoy it"

Spelling correction.I was reffering to 465H&H and his comment on elephant hunting.I am trying to save him from the "agony of defeat".

Shootaway

I seem to recall a famous quotation that applies here. Something along the line of "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
Please, retire from this discussion.

TerryR

TerryR,who cares what YOU think.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
RIP and NitroX,who cares what YOU think!

Shootyourself,

Limited capacity topping out? You seem to have run through your (limited) originality.

JPK

Guys,
Youa're all swallowing "hook, line and sinker". Can't you see he is playing you all as he wants? He states "garbage" so that he get's a reaction from you and the worst part is .....you all are falling right into his lap all the time.

Even he knows most of what he writes is rubbish and he doesn't believe half of it himself. Its just to get you guys going. Lay off for a while. Noone likes talking to themsleves for too long

Bwanamich,I am not playing anyone.I am just sharing what I've learned hunting and shooting so far in my life time.I am passionate about hunting,shooting and wildlife adventure.I've been brought up in a family who has enjoyed hunting and shooting for generations.I even went to college to become a wildlife biologist and flunked out!If people are swallowing what I am saying,that it's because they feel that it's TRUE. My father wants told me that I can't keep anything good secret.Besides,better say something stupid and learn something then not say anything at all.

Back to the actual topic, not the sideshow ....

Has there been any more news on the incident? Has the actual circumstances been revealed yet?

IS Ganyana around?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
RIP

Are we "permitted" to question trolls on AR again, or is it still a "banning offence" to question whether someone is a troll?

NitroX,
I must have missed that one. If I am banned for this, then I did not see it coming.

Thanks for pointing out the latest etiquette to me.

RIP

I think Nitro is referring to ErikD and Johann being banned for questioning ALP#4 for being Cats/Wynwood etc. and Saeeds protection of known trolls.

Shootaway

I'm sorry the Beetle fell off your Cork.

Mickey,
Thanks for that. The snide sarcasm of the remark was lost on me, went right over the top of my head.

I "pulled a shootaway" on that one. My bad. My stupid.

Nitro

Nothing much to update anyone on that wasn't in my second and third posts. Animal wasn't wounded, was in musht. Andy's bullet caught it in the shoulder. He managed to reload somewhere in the process of being knocked flying and run over, and it looks like the trunk swat is wat broke most of the bones- the rear foot hitting him on the head simply knocked him out.

For pea brain enlightenment- if a guide shoots an elephant more than 10m away he cannot claim self defence and will probably loose his license. From where andy was standing and where the animal became visible was about 3 paces.

To return to the original topic...
If I want to go on a gamsafari as an ignorant tourist and want my safety guarranteed? Sorry it can obviously not be done even if accompanied by a competent guide (I hope he fully recovers).
If I ask you guys if it is safe enough to go with an unarmed guide my guess is that you will shout ABSOLUTELY NOT!
This may well be true. Some fifteen years ago I spent a few weeks in the Okavango at a reputable camp. We went close to all kinds of animals on foot, not ele because we couldnt but we literally followed(chased) a female lioness to within 50 meters, swam in the river (no problem, the guide kept on the lookout for crocs) and were told not to get too close to the buffalo but if they did charge, climb a tree and if there were no trees then run and try to shake them off...
Not a gun anywhere.
Looking back this hardly seems safe but we did all this acompanied by what I thought was a competent guide (plus I was in my twenties and not overly concerned about safety).
Have things changed or do most touroperators still go on unarmed footsafaris?
Is a company that does not have armed guides to be considered not serious and should be avoided?
I ask your opinion because I will be going next year to let my wife see the wonderful Africa!

From the tourism pov, the guns became unwanted or needed because of the "peaceful animals." Most eco-tourists are virulently anti-gun and anti-hunting. Maybe after this, they'll realize that it ain't all "disney-world" out there.

I am not a National Parks type tourist. I live within a few hours drive of Yellowstone NP and although I have done a few drive throughs I would not hike or camp out in the that park or any African park that has DG. Why? You can not carry firearms in the Park for self protection. I will not live with grizzlies, lions, elephantts etc. with out a suitable rifle for protection.

465H&H

There seems to be 2 schools of thought on whether or not guided walks in Parks should have an armed or unarmed guide.

One school of thought are all for it, provided the guide is competent and experienced.

The other school argue that without a firearm, the guide and hence the group will keep a greater distance between themselves and wildlife and stay in more open ground, etc thereby reducing or eliminating the chance of a close encounter.

I guess i subscribe to the former

There are outfits in certain TZ parks that do unarmed guided walks. No armed game scout either! They belong to the latter school of thought....

One operator in particular, Chris Fox, who own a lodge in Ruaha and grew up there, has a very unnerving relationship with certain park ele bulls. He claims that there are a handful of bulls that he "grew" up with (meaning that when he was a child, they were young bulls and they grew in parralel)that "know" him and will not harm him. He often approaches these bulls , on foot, alone, to within a couple of yards. I have seen a film sequence where he does just that and uses certain hand and arm signals to "communicate" or make himself recognisable to these bulls. Amzaing stuff really but one day.........

I remember as a school child going on a rare field trip to a safari park and getting real excited over the whole idea.Life outside the school yard was over stimulating to say the least.I got so caught up in the whole thing that I withdrew from evryone and started to paint myself a leopard while on the school bus to the safari park.Once we got there to my amazement many of the wild animals were allowed to approach the bus.Even then at the age of 10 I thought that there must be someone around with a rifle in case all hell breaks loose.I remember some big black bears trying to tip a volkswagen over,and the baboons on the bus roof top recieving the bannanas from childrens lunch boxes.I would guess that tourists are seeking that close contact with wild animals and do expect the rifleman to be nearby but not too much a part of their experience.

quote:

One operator in particular, Chris Fox, who own a lodge in Ruaha and grew up there, has a very unnerving relationship with certain park ele bulls. He claims that there are a handful of bulls that he "grew" up with (meaning that when he was a child, they were young bulls and they grew in parralel)that "know" him and will not harm him. He often approaches these bulls , on foot, alone, to within a couple of yards. I have seen a film sequence where he does just that and uses certain hand and arm signals to "communicate" or make himself recognisable to these bulls. Amzaing stuff really but one day.........

Tim Treadwell thought the same thing with the bears in Alaska and we know what happened to him. I believe if you place yourself into a particular species society you should be expected to be treated by them as one of them. That's how people get hurt and killed, pcking order and the "real" way of the world. Not the disney version.

Their pet buck goes into rut and takes them on and gores them, a once "friendly" bear suddenly eats you because you are interfering with his food gathering (they see you as a direct competator now), etc, etc, etc....

Same reason I have to occasionally kick my rooster when he decides to attack because the hens are too friendly with me.

That guy will get hurt or killed one day by those elephants he says he "knows" if he forgets to mind them.

There was once a Zambian PH that took a job as a armed tour guide in Hwange Park a bunch of years back. He also thought he knew how to handle pissed off elephants. He is now a dark stain on the ground in that Park.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

One operator in particular, Chris Fox, who own a lodge in Ruaha and grew up there, has a very unnerving relationship with certain park ele bulls. He claims that there are a handful of bulls that he "grew" up with (meaning that when he was a child, they were young bulls and they grew in parralel)that "know" him and will not harm him. He often approaches these bulls , on foot, alone, to within a couple of yards. I have seen a film sequence where he does just that and uses certain hand and arm signals to "communicate" or make himself recognisable to these bulls. Amzaing stuff really but one day.........

Tim Treadwell thought the same thing with the bears in Alaska and we know what happened to him. I believe if you place yourself into a particular species society you should be expected to be treated by them as one of them. That's how people get hurt and killed, pcking order and the "real" way of the world. Not the disney version.

Their pet buck goes into rut and takes them on and gores them, a once "friendly" bear suddenly eats you because you are interfering with his food gathering (they see you as a direct competator now), etc, etc, etc....

Same reason I have to occasionally kick my rooster when he decides to attack because the hens are too friendly with me.

That guy will get hurt or killed one day by those elephants he says he "knows" if he forgets to mind them.

Ann, I haven't hunted DG yet. My chance will come next year in the Caprivi. I don't have 1/2 the experience of many of the members here when it comes to hunting Africa, but, I've done my share and have yet to be charged by anything there. That being said, I've been charged here in North America 4 times. Once by a wounded Mule Deer in British Columbia, twice by unwounded Whitetail Deer on a hunting preserve in Pennsylvania where I was guiding, and once by a rabid Groundhog. The Mulie died before it got to us. The Whitetails were'nt in so much of a charge, as a steady, stiff legged advance toward us with their ears laid back, and neck hairs erect. My hunter eventually shot the one whitetail when it had closed the distance to ten feet. This buck advanced on us from almost 100 yards away, and I had identified it to my client as a shooter. Once it closed the gap to around 50 yards, I told my client he either had to shoot or we had to get out of there, because the buck was in rut, and I could tell he was pissed. He just kept looking at the buck through the scope. After he finally shot, he told me he thought I was just making up the danger. When I told him about the rut, and bucks fighting, he didn't believe me. He insisted I was just trying to make the hunt exciting because we were on a preserve with tame deer.

Two days later, on the same preserve, we had just got out of the Bronco, and I looked up on the hill and saw a non-shooter, 8 pointer, walking toward us stiff legged, ears laid back, neck hairs raised. I got my hunter back in the Bronco as the deer approached closer. The buck came up to the Bronco, and and lowered his head, driving 4 tines through my side of the door. Then the buck pulled free, and walked away. The tines missed my thigh by only a couple of inches.

After that, I don't take any game animal lightly. They all can be dangerous.

quote:

I've been charged here in North America 4 times and once by a rabid Groundhog.

I think I just lost out for the quote of the year award...jorge

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I wonder why he missed the elephants brain?

Probably for the same reason he would miss yours: It's a very small target and in your case, even a lazer designator would not guarantee enough CEP* to hit it. jorge

* Circular Error Probable

I would like to nominate this for POST OF THE YEAR, or at least post of the month.

I vote aye.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

I've been charged here in North America 4 times and once by a rabid Groundhog.

I think I just lost out for the quote of the year award...jorge

jorge, your quote still stands as the best!

Well I vote for yours! Any chance of you sending that rabid-rodent up shootaway's way? jorge

I would, but I don't think it would be worth it. Doesn't rabies affect the brain? If so, it would be a lost cause.