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Although I have only killed a few Buff with my two 9.3x62's, these buffalo are never the less "dead". So in my mind, the 9.3x62 IS a Buffalo killer and Legal is most country's that I intend to use it. PS, These buffalo died as fast if not faster than the ones Ive killed with a 470NE.  | |||
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Ganyana, nice reply  | |||
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Well, Ganyana, you see now you are nothing but a damn trouble maker, even if you didn't start it.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Well, I expect your' next article to expound favorably on the 6.5mms as the perfect Elephant culling rifle. It still seems like a way to get a lot of people killed. Do you think the chap who shot the Buffalo should have been packing a 9,3x62 then? Rich | |||
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I really don understood several things here ,first ganyana isnt recomending a 308 althoug i killed several water buffalo with 308sfmjs,second hes too modest ,but i can assure you that his experience on buffalo is great so why you doubt of his opinion or by the way of DRROBERTSON opinion,4 after guiding here hundres of clients on water buffalo i can assure you that very few know how to shoot accurately a rifle over 375hyh ,this is a fact a lot of hunters dont train ,dont go to shooting schools and dont learn advanced rifle shooting techniques,to be proficient with a rifle you must shoot at least 100 shells a week and if possibly attend to a good shooting course like gunsite hunter prep course. GANYANA knows this -hes a shooting instructor too-and is one of the reasons that dont recommend a big bore. If hunters began to train ,mantain a physicall shape and forget the SCI scores perhaps things will change ,but unfourtunately we are seeing more and more trophy collectors in the field that dont know how to operate minor caliber weapons adecuately ,so imagine big bores.... www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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Good lord, trophy hunting has been around before anyone of us were ever born. So what? Screwing up a shot or encouraging a client to shoot or not shoot I thought was the purpose of the PH. Living off of "trophy hunterrs" and then complaining about them seems a little ... what's that you say? Hypocritical, you say? You can get screwed whether trophy hunting, ration hunting, or meat hunting by the "faultless" citizen hunter. One can kill buffalo with almost any rifle but of course all the gov't cropping types don't have to pay trophy fees or suffer any of the bad press from the bystanders when a buff is wounded with little guns. And once a buff is wounded, all bets are off. They can take an unbelievable amount of lead without even flinching and must be seen to be believed, whether a 9.3 or 577. I do not doubt much of anything that Ganyana writes but I do sometimes have different opinions. I have read through the years a bunch of technically incorrect and false information in many books and magazines. But then when you get enough experience to talk intelligently about the subject at first you are angry, then you try to explain it to the unknowing, and then finally you give up trying to convert the terminally stupid. So there!  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I don't think one should compare shooting an ele with .275 or .318 to shooting a buff with a 9.3x62... Anyway, I think sometimes we should just accept the opinion of those guys who have been there and done that... And I guess when it comes to shooting buff Ganyana and Kevin R. fall into this category. | |||
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This thread was started by someone who seems to have a hard on for Ganyana. The reputation of the 9.3 seems to be well established and the recoil of my 9.3x74R is certainly very manageable. I have not read the article but perhaps what the author is doing is encouraging one to use the rifle in which one has confidence and uses often, rather than the latest laudenboomer. There does seem to be a tendency to use a "stopper" perhaps on the grounds that bigger is better. Did Ganyana mention the softpoint that he used? It certainly seems that bullet "quality" should be a factor. I am not sure I would use a Privi on buff. for example, but I could be mistaken. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Good advice from a man (Ganyana) that has shot enough buffalo to talk from practical experience. The quality of the bullet is certainly a primary consideration, as in the end it is the bullet that is doing the killing. Thus frangible Softs is out of the question. Ganyana is using premium Softs, and have stated numerous times that he is using Ken Stewart's Hi-Performer - a thick jacket core bonded bullet. This bullet is tough and performs well by holding together and does not over-expand, but expands in a controlled way to a sufficiently large diameter (2.0 to 2.2 times original diameter in my wetpack tests) to create a wound channel that is bigger than a .510 non expanding solid. 9.3 mm times 2.2 = 20.46 mm .510 inches times 25.4 = 12.95 mm Ganyana has seen many a time how long it takes for a buffalo to go down when shot with a Solid bullet. In fact he has published an article on this very issue some years back in the Man Magnum magazine. Here is the Soft bulllet in question (Stewart Hi-Performer) that Ganyana uses:-  Punching a larger hole through the vitals leads to accelerated bleeding and woud severe more tissue and so the beast would bleed to death quicker. Many PH's have made this switch from Solid to Soft bullets. It is taken for granted that we assume good shot placement as a matter of course. Doctari has shot many buffalo himself and backed many clients up where they are using either his 9,3x62 or his .375 H&H. The last count is somewhere over 800 buffalo if I remember correctly. He most always recommend to his clients to use the 9,3x62 for first time buffalo hunters, as it provides lower recoil and a quicker second followup shot for the inexperienced. This has been proven many times over to work well and as such it should be considered as sound advice. The other thing that is often overlooked is the fact that premium Softs such as Stewart, Swift A-Frame and Rhino Solid Shanks, and others, works extremely well at 9,3 x62 velocities as it does not over stretch the bullet beyond its threshold strength. Here is another example of the work of an expanding solid (TSX) in a 9,3 x62:-  Warrior | |||
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Ken Stewart (Stewart bullets) has shot serveral hundreds (if not a thousnad) of buffaloes (meat for the workers at sugar canes) with his trusty old 8x57JRS. But that was in the old days in Kenya, and Uganda when the critters didn't know that they couldn't be killed with a caliber sub .40! | |||
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Idaho, Your body of work and classic replies are very convincing. As the experienced buffalo hunters on this board have posted - shot placement is the most important aspect of shooting - not a bigger bullet. I have not met the person who could shoot the .577 or even .458 Lott as well as or as quickly as someone shooting a 9.3 or .375. The average hunter likely cannot shoot the big gun very well due to recoil and lack of experience firing it. Ganyana is well respected and well known. He has credentials that are on par with the best PH's and hunters out there. Be careful, or at least come armed with facts, when pulling on Superman's cape. PS - name calling went out of style in the 3rd grade in most countries. | |||
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Well done Ganyana, don't sweat the small stuff, and go on with what you know works. IdahoSharpshooter, likes everyone to shoot what he wants, you know, kind of like most of us, but he simply insists on it, while the rest of us only suggest! Reccomendations are info that helps if they are good, and help nothing if ignored! I'm not one who believes experience is the only thing that is important in reccomendations of a chambering for a certain animal, but facts are facts, and may be disblieved, but that doesn't alter those facts. Knowing the facts and convencing others of them are two different things, especially where firearms are concerned. You and I both know you must beware a man who uses one rifle/caliber for everything, for he is likely to know how to use it! Looking forward to you next article! .......  ....................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Sorry if I'm arived late in this topic, but if I remember well I heard that any PH prefers that the client is able to shoot properly with a less big caliber than a big one. Shooting with tight shut eyes do not help in properly hitting the vital parts of buffalo. Remember a news about a Japanese lady who shot a buffalo with a 30-06, killed it without problems and got back home. Or E.Hemingway thet did the same, if I remember well and wrote it in his book. For sure the ability to shoot well and straigh with a very big caliber is the most desirable situation, no doubts. But I read also about jumbos killed with military metal piercing 8x57 shooted in the head without any problem. what? gasoline on fire???? ops,mhhhh, yeah   bye Stefano Waidmannsheil | |||
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it is matter of honor the idaho sharp shooter has insulted Ganyana andonly a shootout canbe the right solution idaho with a 700 nitro express and ganyan armed with a 9,3x62  Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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I know who I would bet on! | |||
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Dogcat, it's not a set to we'll be having, but before you might lose a lot of money; ask if either has ever killed a man in a stand up face to face. Way different from shooting an unarmed animal. Ganyana's article reflects experience culling in an open area, not shooting distances measured in feet. When I moved to Idaho I needed a job. I got on in a slaughterhouse killing beef cattle. 900lbs up to over a ton on some of those old range bulls. I killed over 1400 head in two weeks with a 22 long rifle. On that basis, I'm the expert. Because, I killed all mine at 18 inches to 2 feet, head on. That said, I want to ask all of you who are on the "Experienced PH" side of this discussion to trade me all of your big bore rifles for 9,3x62's. You all now know they are unnecessary and obsolete. Especially those double rifles. I am making arrangements to stockpile 9,3x62 special order Remington 700's since we all also know the CRF is a dog. I got a PM and the situation is now settled. But the coin toss at Reno settles who buys the first round. Rich | |||
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Every PH I have talked to says they want the client to bring the biggest, most powerful rifle/cartridge they can shoot accurately. The 9,3x62 is just a 35 Whelen necked up .008". There's no magic there. Mine thought my 450 Dakota was just the cat's ass when he saw me put four rounds in a tight group enroute to camp the first day. Rich | |||
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 JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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I have a very petite lady client who ranches for a living. Her and her mother went on safari in the late 70's. Right before I left to go to Zim last time, I was looking at a horse for her and we got started talking abount hunting in Africa. Her words: "I don't know what the big deal about shooting a buffalo is. I shot mine with a .308 Winchester from a little Model 70 featherweight. It was the only rifle I took. We stalked in to the tail of a herd in the brush. The bull I wanted came by at about 40 yards. I shot him through the heart with my .308 (factory loads can't remember what kind). He went about 30 more yards and fell over dead. Never shot him again." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Anecdotal stuff reigns supreme, eh? I know this guy that has shot 32,373,187 Cape buffalo, more than all the natives and PH's in Zim combined since the beginning of time with a 700 NE. So the the 700 NE is better than a piss ant 9.3. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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And besides that Ganyana is a Swahili word for buffalo dung. and there you have it, guess he really shot the chit out of that one | |||
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we want to see blood. BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD ganyana armed with his 9,3 and ISS with his 500 double meeting each other at OK CORAL Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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It's set, Phil is buying the first two bottles and we are going to see who can drink who under the table come Reno. Rich | |||
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I have not read Ganyana's 9,3x62 article, but I do have some 9,3 comments... I have used my 9,3x74R double, with 286 gr Woodleigh Soft, and Solids, and the 286gr Nosler partitions on quite a bit of game. The velocities of my loads are @2225 fps. I have also used the 450/400 3 1/4" and my favorite rifle of ALL TIME my 450 No2, on quite a bit of game as well. I have shot deer, pigs, black bear, African Plains game, giraffe, cape buff and elephant with all three. I shot a lion with the 450/400. The 9,3x74R has performed most excellently for me on game from the small stuff to the biggest. I think the 9,3x74R in a scoped double rifle, and the 9,3x62 for you Bolt Rifle Trash... Are two of the best hunting rifle calibres on the Planet. I would pick my 9,3x74R Double Rifle for DG over ANY calibre bolt rifle... No doubt "on paper" a 450/400, or a 450 No2 is a BIGGER HAMMER than a 9,3.... But in my experience, the animals I have shot have not read "that paper". I shoot my 450 No2 just as good as my 9,3x74R... But in reality I cannot say it kills any quicker than my 9,3... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Everybody knows shot placement is supreme. I posted before about I rifle I acquired that belonged to Tony Boyce. He told me in one two week period with the Parks Department he culled 60 elephant and 100 buffalo with that rifle....an 8x60! ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | |||
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I just wish that Ganyana would have said more about that beautiful Clamshell DR. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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N E 450 No. 2, Thanks for sharing your experience. | |||
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It has been very educative reading the posts on this topic.ISS,thanks for raising the issue.Only thing I would say is that the questions could have been raised in a lot less contrary manner.If you had simply asked him to explain his reasoning,I am sure he would have done it gladly.JMHO. Best- Locksley,R "Early in the morning, at break of day, in all the freshness and dawn of one's strength, to read a book - I call that vicious!"- Friedrich Nietzsche | |||
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All this would have been prevented by Wolfe letting IS write for them. | |||
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Robin, where would the entertainment value be in that? Rich | |||
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SG, thanks, but I got my fill of editors and deadlines in ten years at Precision Shooting Magazine each month. Finding something nice to say about a POS product at Wolfe would be a very slight improvement over being forced to share a small office with Nancy Pelosi or my ex-mother-in-law eight hours a day. Rich | |||
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Actually, Ganyana has been in, and hit in a shootout with poachers, so I know where and how he stands in that question! | |||
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i didn't realize questioning someone's veracity, credibility, knowledge, etc. was entertaining( especially when their experience FAR outweighs your own) was a form of entertainment. guess i missed that TV show. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Question... Do you feel the same about shooting 280 grain A-frames from the 35 Whelen? Only 8 thou diameter and 6 grain weight difference. Same performance as the 350 Rigby
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Rich what on Earth gives you the idea that the big five are "UNARMED"? ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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hi boomstick why should a 9,3x62 be more effective than 375H&H. they both have a nearly same SD in their bullets 286 and 300 grain and 375 has even slightly higher initial velocity?? isen't that less recoil in 9,3 make it easier to shoot better and put the bullet in right place for average hunters? naturally talking about recoil is a tabu in our MUCHO MACHO world REGARDS YES Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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Boom stick- was that directed at me? If yes, then....35 Whelen isn't legal anywhere except mozambique. It will work fine- but so does the .45-70 (mostly  ).Having shot buffalo with a handgun and guided clients who have used handguns, Muzzel loaders, and bows...You can get away with most things if you are prepared to wait for the right shot. BUT - I would never advise a client to use something illegal unless there was a darn good reason why - eg a kid shootingele with a 30-06 because he couldn't take the recoil of the .375 daddy had bought for him. If you are booking a dangerous game hunt and intending to use a rifle, I advise people to take a good look at the .375 or a .458 -The .458 because it is easy to down load and makes a great pig gun even if they never come to Africa again, and the .375 because it is so useful anywhere in the world. I encourage clients to buy the rifle long before the hunt and get fully used to it...Most don't bother to take advice | |||
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That sums it up folks - +1 from me... | |||
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Me too. +1  | |||
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We are in agreement here: Ganyana and the rest of you. You have to be able to handle it quickly and hit what you aim at well before you take the trip. Rich | |||
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