quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Your probably correct. It does not mean that I will quit hunting or supporting hunting as long as I am able.

In one reality, I sincerely hope I am wrong about the future of hunting.

In Real Time reality however, I have watched the changes that have been taking place, especially during the past 25 years and too many folks today in my opinion have wandered away from the real reasons why a person hunts, and have turned it into a competition on too many levels.

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Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Isn't it possible to hunt for a trophy, while also hunting for the meat and enjoying the time in woods? No reason a hunter can't have all three at once.

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... too many folks today in my opinion have wandered away from the real reasons why a person hunts,
and have turned it into a competition on too many levels.

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Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Isn't it possible to hunt for a trophy, while also hunting for the meat and enjoying the time in woods? No reason a hunter can't have all three at once.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
The worst thing to happen to hunting, was when it was labeled as SPORT HUNTING, and people made a competition of it.
...........................
I am a total NOBODY, but I have seen hunting go from being an activity that people simply went out and enjoyed with friends and family, to an activity where a tape measure and $$$$ spent became the measure of a "Hunter".

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
The worst thing to happen to hunting, was when it was labeled as SPORT HUNTING, and people made a competition of it.

Not to ruffle any more feathers than necessary, but look at all the comments from so many people about SCI. The same thing applies to Texas Trophy Hunters Association.

As long as people equate trophy animals with $$$$$$$$ spent, hunting is in trouble.

I am a total NOBODY, but I have seen hunting go from being an activity that people simply went out and enjoyed with friends and family, to an activity where a tape measure and $$$$ spent became the measure of a "Hunter".

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Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Jtex you are partly right - But ....

But Western settlements over the last 200+ years also annihilated many species - Passenger pigeon, American locust, Bison, Prairie Chicken, Ivory Billed Woodpecker, the very ecology of the prairies (with no more elk, wolf etc.).

Same goes for South America, Australia etc.

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Originally posted by JTEX:

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Originally posted by Nakihunter:
We cannot hunt tigers, snow leopard, jaguar, clouded leopard, most species of rhino, most if not all species of Indian & other SE Asian game animals in their original habitat, many species of birds, crocs etc. .... the list goes on.

It is just a matter of time before these closed territories and banned species lists get bigger.

I can see in my own lifetime - say another 22 years - when 80% of today's hunting opportunities around the world will not exist and many more species would have become extinct or near extinct due to plunder by the illegal animal trade that tries to supply the illegal demand.

All good points.

But due to sound management practices in countries like the US and South Africa there are more game animals now than in the previous 100 years.

No hunting isn't doomed........some ways of hunting will be though.


.

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Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

"... SO I think hunting is far from doomed and certainly not because of some perceived shift from just hunting to hunting for the book. I shot my first buck 49 years ago today and I can tell you in my experience the average hunter now is far more aware of what it takes to make a trophy and consequently the conservation issues associated with that. In my younger years almost everyone I knew that hunted was more than willing to overshoot their limit if they could and if they didn't the poachers were their heroes. Today I just don't find that mentality prevalent and I think the record books are partially responsible for that. People are proud to have hunted but not found the trophy that they wanted. They had a standard or score they were looking for and didn't find it so they did not shoot an animal to just kill something. I think that is admirable.

Personally unless I am hunting for meat I have a specific trophy goal that I am pursuing and if I don't achieve that goal so be it. I hunt for trophies and don't mind saying that to anyone. That means I kill less but enjoy it more when I do and I'm very happy with that philosophy. I think that a lot of today's hunters fall into this same category which is far removed from those that pursue inner circles at all cost but make up a very small part of the hunting community.

Mark

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IMO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trophy hunting. It's legal and brings a ton of money to conservation.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

The only time I know of when any "Real" money goes to a state for conservation efforts are those that hold auctions for "Governors" tags that go for tremendous prices, while very little of the money from sales of Resident hunting licenses/tags does anything for conservation efforts in the various states.

That is the reason Non-Resident licenses/tags/permits continue to increase annually, because the only money for actual conservation efforts is derived from the Non-Residents and the special auctions.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and I personally do not see that rosy a future for hunting, World Wide from 2030 forward.

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Originally posted by Saeed:

Those who go out with a tape measure pretending to go "hunting" are missing the whole point of what hunting is supposed to be.

Hunting is NOT a competitive sport.

It is a passion to enjoy the out doors!

Of course SCI has turned into a "look at me" variant, and they have lost the plot in doing so.

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So ... resident licences do not contribute much to conservation efforts - very interesting concept!!!

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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So ... resident licences do not contribute much to conservation efforts - very interesting concept!!!

It is a REAL concept. The price for resident hunting license in many states have increased very little over the past couple of decades while Non-Resident tags have reached prices that are causing many hunters to either stop doing out of state hunts or reduce the number of hunts out of state.

The various states have different systems regarding how their state Game & Fish agencies operate. In Texas, Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioners are appointed by the Governor.

In other states the commissioners are elected by the citizens of the state. License fees in Texas are determined by the commissioners based on recommendations from TP&W staff. In other states, license fees and numbers are voted on by the Residents of the state. Because residents in states like Colorado do not like the idea of Non-Residents over running the hunting areas, they voted to reduce the number of permits available to Non-Residents to a certain percentage of overall license/permit numbers, and also voted to keep the cost of Resident license/permits relatively low.

To make up for the shortfall, prices for Non-Resident license/permit prices have continued to climb. The various Game Depts. openly admit that the money they receive from the sales of resident licenses basically funds the daily operations of the department. Sales of licenses to Non-Residents is where they made the money for much of the conservation efforts.

As Non-Residents were squeezed out due to the shrinking percentages of available license/permits, the price to Non-Residents continued to increase to the point that many Non-Residents simply dropped out. That decrease in income has hurt both the Game & Fish departments in the various states but also the overall economy in smaller towns and their businesses due to the decrease in the numbers of Non-Residents coming into the areas that traditionally attracted those Non-Resident hunters.

I am simply stating my opinion of the situation as I have observed it over the past 47 years. It keeps getting worse every year, and even some of you have pointed out the major problem that is affecting hunting: "There Will Be Hunting For THOSE That Can Afford It"!!! That is what is killing hunting as we have known it. Once it reaches the point where only the wealthy or politically connected are able to hunt, hunting will be dead.

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Interesting I always thought that in the States you simply walked out the backyard and potted something for the pot.

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Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

So ... resident licences do not contribute much to conservation efforts - very interesting concept!!!

It is a REAL concept. The price for resident hunting license in many states have increased very little over the past couple of decades while Non-Resident tags have reached prices that are causing many hunters to either stop doing out of state hunts or reduce the number of hunts out of state.

The various states have different systems regarding how their state Game & Fish agencies operate. In Texas, Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioners are appointed by the Governor.

In other states the commissioners are elected by the citizens of the state. License fees in Texas are determined by the commissioners based on recommendations from TP&W staff. In other states, license fees and numbers are voted on by the Residents of the state. Because residents in states like Colorado do not like the idea of Non-Residents over running the hunting areas, they voted to reduce the number of permits available to Non-Residents to a certain percentage of overall license/permit numbers, and also voted to keep the cost of Resident license/permits relatively low.

To make up for the shortfall, prices for Non-Resident license/permit prices have continued to climb. The various Game Depts. openly admit that the money they receive from the sales of resident licenses basically funds the daily operations of the department. Sales of licenses to Non-Residents is where they made the money for much of the conservation efforts.

As Non-Residents were squeezed out due to the shrinking percentages of available license/permits, the price to Non-Residents continued to increase to the point that many Non-Residents simply dropped out. That decrease in income has hurt both the Game & Fish departments in the various states but also the overall economy in smaller towns and their businesses due to the decrease in the numbers of Non-Residents coming into the areas that traditionally attracted those Non-Resident hunters.

I am simply stating my opinion of the situation as I have observed it over the past 47 years. It keeps getting worse every year, and even some of you have pointed out the major problem that is affecting hunting: "There Will Be Hunting For THOSE That Can Afford It"!!! That is what is killing hunting as we have known it. Once it reaches the point where only the wealthy or politically connected are able to hunt, hunting will be dead.

Interesting I always thought that in the States you simply walked out the backyard and potted something for the pot.

quote:

CHC,ravenr and I are Wyoming residents and were friends long before we talked about any business relationship. He'll tell you that he has kind of hounded me to take advantage of the local hunitng for about 10 years. He and I hunted together this fall as two buddies might anywhere and that hunt we were on is available to any Wyoming resident. Our hunt was not business related in any way. It was simply a hunt to fill the freezer for both of us. He did not "guide" me anymore than I "guided" friends when I lived in Alaska. I helped skin, quarter and pack meat just like anyone would on a DIY hunt with a friend.

You being a guide yourself might lead folks to believe that you might be very "connected" in TX where as I said earlier it seems to be very hard to hunt DIY.

To answer your question it would cost you probably $7,000 if you could draw an elk tag to hunt with ravenr who would run it through a local outfitter which he is not and you'd probably come anyway with a nice bull. Your hunt would have very little resemblance to the one ravenr and I went on.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I believe hunting has generally declined in modern culture, because there has been a seismic demographic shift in our population from rural farm/small-town life to large-town/urban city life.

Hunting is just not in the culture of city dwellers like it is in the culture or those folks living in rural farming/small town areas. Hunting and related issues are just not high priorities for city dwellers.

This massive shift toward urban life and culture will continue, but there will be some residual hunting available for those who can afford it, just like some modest and expensive hunting still exists in Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
There in lies a big part of the overall picture, the urbanization of modern society.

Because our society has moved away from the rural areas and lost touch with nature and the role humans play in it as a predator, people are simply not growing up with hunting as a regular part of their life.

It was something their Grand Dad did, add to that aspect, the rising costs of hunting and the bombardment of so much of television and movies and social media that is basically anti-hunting that children and young people are confronted with on a daily basis and there is further movement away from hunting.

There is no single element that is causing the decline but several, including natural attrition thru aging and death of hunters.

Other than rural folks in some countries that depend upon subsistence hunting, as a whole around the globe how many average citizens of most countries are exposed to hunting. How much hunting is the average commoner in England exposed to?

Even in Africa, how much hunting does the average citizen of say Johannesberg exposed to?

Will hunting ever completely cease to exist, I don't believe it will, but it will be in such a limited avenue that it will effectively be gone for the average person.

Just my opinion.

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Too many of us were born at the wrong time in history. I really believe that the majority of us that truly love to hunt should have been born or lived between 1870 and 1960.

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Have read all this discussion. I will not get into the fray other to say that I am an optimist. I believe hunting will endure if there are people who believe in the sport. Trophy hunting for meat is my goal. I enjoy the hunt, the trophy and the table fare reward. MTG

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The only hunting available will be for Privately owned "Livestock" basically.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Too many of us were born at the wrong time in history. I really believe that the majority of us that truly love to hunt should have been born or lived between 1870 and 1960.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:

quote:

The only hunting available will be for Privately owned "Livestock" basically.

I know you weren't addressing me, but I'll throw this in and then leave the topic for everyone else to discuss.

There's only one thing wrong with that quote. You forgot the "other side" of our problem. It's not anti-hunting. It's anti-gun. It's going to hit first.

Twenty years from now I'm quite confident that in the US ordinary citizens will not be allowed to own or possess ANY firearms period.

It's no secret that in the USA as soon as a certain supreme court decision is reversed (I won't get into the details, this being the African board) and the constitution is no longer interpreted as protecting an individual right to possess a gun, that several of the large liberal states (starting with NY and CA) will immediately move for complete confiscation. They are now just waiting for the chance. The signs of it are everywhere and impossible to mistake.