Has anyone used or heard of using 12g shotgun slugs on buff? I was talking to someone the other day that had just come back from Zim. He used an antique black powder hammer gun to take hi Buff (perhaps 2, I can't remember), and he was saying that he fancied using a shotgun on them.

Neither of us were sure of the practicality or legality of it so I thought I woudl ask...

I assume you would have to get quite close in any case.

Thanks
FB

Just bring along a jar of vaseline so it won't be as painful when the buffalo shoves the shotgun where the sun doesn't shine! Aside from the fact that is it illegal of course. jorge

It is looking for trouble. I will never allow it, the hunters skin is on the line and so is mine, a big NO NO

We were having this discussion on NitroExpress recently on brennecke slugs on water buffalo. Several of the Top End buffalo experts (ie those gentlemen who had shot a fair few buffalo over the years) seemed to think a brennecke would not have a problem killing a water buffalo at closer ranges. And of course some of these opinions are based on actually doing it.

There is no legal minimum to take into account as in most African countries.

Has been done before but for sure is not to be recommended. A french PH I once knew said he had tried them with success - I don't remember how many he actually shot with slugs but I think just a very few...

Assuming favorable shot presentation, there's not a doubt in my mind they'll clobber a buffalo but as Bwanamich has stated, few would recommend their use. I truly wish there were suitable loadings available, as I'd much enjoy carrying my slug gun after buffalo.

You'd be better off with a 45-70!!!

If you are going to limmit yourself to the same shots that are acceptable to a bow hunter a brenneke will work fine- buff or ele. Same as using a revolver for big game. It can safely be done if you are prepared to take only perfect shots.

as noted - it would be illegal in Zim

It also helps if you are a poor rural peasant who has no idea just how undergunned you are

Woefully inadequate penetration campared to a rifle... No way.

If he posed nicely and presented you a classic broadside shot perhaps you could get by in a pinch of course like anything else, but if anything went wrong you've got a big problem.

There was an article written about using brennecke slugs on buffalo written in either the late '70's or early '80's. The author may have been Peter Capstick. The end result was that the PH author (who did this on a bet / as an experiment) killed the buff with a single slug to the upper heart on a broadside shot. The penetration, as I recall, was adequate but not excessive. I believe the slug also broke up to some extent, although not enough to fail in it's task.

The conclusion was that it could be done fairly reliably under favorable conditions, but wasn't a good idea when the situation was more demanding.

analog_peninsula

Boddington recounts in "Safari Rifles" That Bob Brister, editor of Field and Stream on a bet killed a buffalo very dead with one Brenneke slug from a Perazzi bird gun.

465H&H

[QUOTE] And of course some of these opinions are based on actually doing it. Priceless

If I recall, there was similar idiocy by some experts that were apparently bored, to try and successfully kill a buffalo with a spear and an elephant with a 22lr. This of course from gentlemen who actually did it. I still say, bring the vaseline jorge

Why do we keep getting these questions?
YES, it will PROBABLY work. The real question in all of these "Name my favorite underpowered cartridge vs Cape Buffalo/DG" is HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE HIM TO DIE AND WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO IN THE MEANTIME?

quote:

Originally posted by RAC:
Why do we keep getting these questions?

For much the same reasons we always get the same narrow minded responses. Many here have remarkably little hunting/killing/firearm experience ... anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Nickudu:

quote:

Originally posted by RAC:
Why do we keep getting these questions?

For much the same reasons we always get the same narrow minded responses. Many here have remarkably little hunting/killing/firearm experience ... anywhere.

Nickudu!

Which of the responces do you consider narrow minded?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Nickudu:

quote:

Originally posted by RAC:
Why do we keep getting these questions?

For much the same reasons we always get the same narrow minded responses. Many here have remarkably little hunting/killing/firearm experience ... anywhere.

I think my question is valid. To rephrase, why should one shoot DG/Buff with a marginal weapon when it has already been proven what will work? None of this is about killing. It is about stopping. I would want to know that if I shoot a buffalo I have a better caliber so that he will go down quickly.

I have never hunted buffalo. My marginal big game hunting experience is only approx 120 deer, some hogs, and a dozen assorted African plains game. I would like to hunt buff one day. A shotgun with slugs would not be on my short list. In fact, just to stir the pot, a 45-70 would rate higher on my list than a shotgun. And I would never, ever shoot a Cape Buffalo with a 45-70 either.

RAC - I have no problem with the initial question and responded in kind, did I not?

My problem is the intolerance of some of the responses, a recurring theme around here, based on little else but what is read or overheard.

I can drive nails with a monkey wrench, so I suppose I could hunt buff with a shotgun.

Wouldn't want to, though.

Some of these questions could also be answered with, or in conjunction with the question - would you do it if you were hunting by yourself and had to face the consequences, planned or un planned, alone?

For example if the buffalo was shot well, but most likely didn't die 'instantly' instead of running off instead he came for you, would the person with a bow, muzzleloader, .45/70 etc be reasonably confident of dropping it?

Puts a different perspective on the question and answers.

Of course hunting without any backup is unlikely in today's reality.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I can drive nails with a monkey wrench, so I suppose I could hunt buff with a shotgun.

Wouldn't want to, though.

mrlexma: perfect response, but then again, I'm inexperienced and a lot of what I know ( or think I know) comes from (flash!) reading, or from what reputable folks tell me, but given Don's and Ganyana's responses, I feel like I'm in good company. Still like your answer best though! jorge

EDITED

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:
You'd be better off with a 45-70!!!

much better

George Hoffman shot buff with Remingtons [new at the time] Sabot slug.
He said it gave good penetration.

some 12 ga. slugs(dixie,brenneke,etc.) have an ADVERTISED velocity over 1500fps. 730 gr. I think. what is the velocity of a .600-.700 NE? no DG or slug experience here.

Some of the Garret loads are made for dangerous game. I know absolutely nothing about dangerous game, but the Garret websites have lots of good information about their bullets being used in Africa and such. I've never seen a slug advertised for DG other than Grizzly.

The only place I would use a Brenneke slug on dangerous game in Africa is from a fully rifled double barrel 12 ga rifle, fitted with Iron sight, and with 20" barrels, regulated to hit point of aim at 15 feet, is on a Leopard follow up!No other of the big five will get a slug from me, and long as I can get away! Even then, I'd rather have a double rifle set up the same way chambered for 45-70, with NF soft points.
What I'd do is, not use either one of these firearms, for Cape Buffalo, unless I had no other choice!

My question is why is it, that so many people seem to want to use tools that are not well designed, or well designed for the purpose they choose them for? If you want to hunt Cape Buffalo, buy yourself a Cape Buffalo rifle, and go to it! anything else is just plain dumb, IMO!

good point Mac! just speculation for the sake of discussion. the old BP loads left alot of crippled (or worse)Brits in the red dirt in the 1800's.

This is where I miss Ray Atkinson's post.

Would he say he'd shot a dozen or more buff with a M-12 and slugs, or would he say that it's too light?

If anybody wants to trade one of their nice double rifles for an 870 let me know

I have killed a deer and a wild pig, and my wife killed a wild pig with a 12 ga slug.
All were American Foster type. While they did kill, I was not impressed.
I just got my own drilling and it looks like it shoots a Brenneke KO slug pretty good I will do futher testing and be hunting a lot of wild pigs with it in the future.
However now I do not feel the slug is the answer for bear protectioin, much less for African buff... And what about elephant???

The 9,3 with Solids is the bare minium, and I would feel much better with a 450/400.

Stopping a charge is much different than using a particular cartridge, [or a bow and arrow] for a stunt hunt.

Use the proper tool for the job at hand, other lives than yours are at stake.

quote:

Originally posted by Grafton:
If anybody wants to trade one of their nice double rifles for an 870 let me know

HORRORS!!!

Don't you know pumps are PUSH FEEDS!!



Sorry couldn't resist.

quote:

Posted 05 August 2006 06:40
quote:
Originally posted by Grafton:
If anybody wants to trade one of their nice double rifles for an 870 let me know


HORRORS!!!

Don't you know pumps are PUSH FEEDS!!

gawd!! what a hoot!

I have shot american bison with 12 ga slug both hollow base and brenneke, and while the breneke soild is better than the hollow base that is very soft I do not think it was humane or sportsman like. We owe magnificent animals a humane death.

I have also shot american bison with 50 and 54 muzzle loader using both ball and maxiballs.

Not humane either in my opinion.

Same for large caliber handguns.

If you have to shoot a buffalo w a 12 ga cast it hard for max penetration!

Andy

I think Andy says it best! Kurt.

If I had an old double paradox 12 or 10 ga that was regulated for those huge solid slugs I'd do it. Yes I'd do it alone without a second thought, and would prefer to if it was allowed. I'm much more comfortable without someone around when I'm hunting.

The 12 gafh with hard cast bullets of really heavy weight would have no problems I'd bet. It would have much better penetration than a normal slug. I'm sure they could run a 1000 grain slug 2000+ fps, no problem. Getting a second shot off after the recoil is another thing. I saw a site where a guy had a 4 bore and hunted african game, seemed to work good but he had to have a special backpack sling for it cause of weight.

I have it on the highest athority from the god almighty experts on the double rifle forum that 12 ga slugs made of solid copper bronze at 1600 fps are only good for racoons. and that even asking this question makes you somehow retarded. and sience I read that it must be a fact. right?

"jesus christ shoots a 470 and so should you"

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
Some of the Garret loads are made for dangerous game. I know absolutely nothing about dangerous game, but the Garret websites have lots of good information...

I would only agree that the Garrett website has a lot of B.S.

Let's face facts: 1500 to 1600 fps is insufficient velocity to achieve good penetration. Also, shotgun slugs tend to have low sectional density and are rather soft in comparison to the type of solids which have proven successful on thick skinned dangerous game.

What I don't understand is why a guy would ask a question if he does not wish to receive answers.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I saw a site where a guy had a 4 bore and hunted african game, seemed to work good but he had to have a special backpack sling for it cause of weight.

That would be African Hunter.

Return of the 4-Bore Part 1

Retrun of the 4-Bore Part 2