quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Yep.

We know they have to show their products, and we can see that.

But, treating us like a bunch of idiots is not going to work.

Saeed, I am just curious,does that comment only apply to the gun/hunting sports industry?

F1 motor racing has the cars all covered in products brands from sponsoring companies.[some not even motor racing related]
Are they treating the vast sea of motor racing fans like idiots also?
I actually look forward to how the various teams will cleverly display/billboard it cars each F1 season.
The 2014 Martini Williams looks dull compared to the Infiniti Red Bull cars........
The motor racing success & history of the great Ford GT40 liveried in the 'Gulf' oil name & colors, has helped it to reach icon status.
Would Nascar be the same if the drivers wore caps with Shell,Chev, Bud or Pennzoil on it, but no such advertising on the cars?

If recreational hunting was a multi-billion dollar industry like motor racing, product brand stickers plastered all over a hunting personalities guns
would be the cultural norm.

>>Just to give some perspective,

Just one race for a major team like Ferrari can cost like $40million, and they have like 18 races each season.

Now if you were a bat crazy wealthy hunter interested in completing the SCI grands slams like the
-African dangerous game list, -the African 29, and -the American 29,....how much would that cost you?
and how many people in the world would really give a shit that you are doing it?

Trax, for sure, just listen to an interview after a NASCAR race the driver talks about his A,B,C,D,X,Y,Z (C,F,OR T) car performed.

I'd be shocked if Shockey's production budget for Uncharted wasn't in the seven figure range.....someone has to pay for it. We are exposed to advertizing 24/7 yet somehow hunters get offended when they are. We do love to feed on our own.

Watched Shockey's 3rd episode last night. He is a bit of a hypocrite. Feigning disgust about the native people killing for food a furry white creature as cruel. He hunts for trophies and castigates natives for killing for food. A real hero! Lost a bit of respect for him.

Maybe the perpetual whiners can watch "The Batchelor", or "America's Got Talent" instead of Shockey.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

I actually look forward to how the various teams will cleverly display/billboard it cars each F1 season.

NASCAR Style

"This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons."

quote:

"This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons."

Ya durn tooten I like fig newtons!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Gone 3 weeks and this is the first post I see - ragging on SCI. Shockley's just showing loyalty to his sponsors, just like most posters here express their loyalty to this sites sponsor.

It's only reasonable that he should.

Look at the Eastman family of Eastman's Hunting Journal. About a year ago, they switched to using Savage bolt actions. Surprise! Savage is now one of the big advertisers in the magazines.

I can live with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Watched Shockey's 3rd episode last night. He is a bit of a hypocrite. Feigning disgust about the native people killing for food a furry white creature as cruel. He hunts for trophies and castigates natives for killing for food. A real hero! Lost a bit of respect for him.

DOJ, I'm sure you already know this, but client hunters in Africa are hunting for meat as well! What meat is not used in camp is used by the locals. Since the client hunter is not allowed to bring meat back from Africa, at least to the USA, the Trophies and back skins are all that is allowed only after dip and curing.

I have not seen the Shocky films, so I may be speaking out of turn, and if I am, then I apologize!

However, I assume what he is referring to is the fact that the poachers eat animals that are not only endangered but even when the animals are not rare they kill the very young and females of animals they don't even use the meat from, by the hundreds with snare lines that do not discriminate as to what they kill, and the poachers take only a small number of the animals they snare, and the rest simply die a terrible death in the snare.

Nothing on a trophy safari is wasted, and the trophy hunter takes the animals that least impacts the species, and the meat is utilized as well.

I'm not a Shocky fan, but I never down grade a person who speaks up against poaching!

Opinions vary, but that is my two cents worth! If however, I'm all wet in this case I'm sure several here will make me aware of the fact!
.................................................................

quote:

If however, I'm all wet in this case I'm sure several here will make me aware of the fact!

Would not say you are all wet, you just have not seen the show in question.
But even I saw the death of this animal as brutal.
I realize these people do not have firearms & a quick humane kill is not possible & they were only doing what they know to do, it was still sad to watch.

MacD37, they were hunting Buffalo and the trackers saw this animal and proceeded to cut down the tree and kill the animal, which they said when ask, it would be supper that night. Yes I know meat is not wasted in Africa either used in camp or for the local villages. My point is he hunts trophies (knowing the meat will be used by natives) some of which will also be used as bait but his hunt is trophy hunting as is our hunts and we know the meat will be used for the good of the people. I don't think poaching came into the picture in this case. Please watch the show.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
MacD37, they were hunting Buffalo and the trackers saw this animal and proceeded to cut down the tree and kill the animal, which they said when ask, it would be supper that night. Yes I know meat is not wasted in Africa either used in camp or for the local villages. My point is he hunts trophies (knowing the meat will be used by natives) some of which will also be used as bait but his hunt is trophy hunting as is our hunts and we know the meat will be used for the good of the people. I don't think poaching came into the picture in this case. Please watch the show.

Thanks DOJ, and Bwana C, for clarifying the incident. I have no way to view the film and that is the reason for my misinformed opinion on this matter! Sorry! Carry on!
...................................................................

Bwana C not looking to pick a fight as you said they use what means they have available. I don't find it as repulsive as I did the other night watching Tracks Across Africa and a hunter fired 9 shots at a Buffalo, no I don't know if all shots hit home, and then compulsory congrats by Ivan on how great it was.

doj
I understand your comments.
We are trophy hunters, these people are just trying to survive, but it was still hard to watch.
I certainly don't judge the natives, would do the same if I were hungry.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
doj
I understand your comments.
We are trophy hunters, these people are just trying to survive, but it was still hard to watch.
I certainly don't judge the natives, would do the same if I were hungry.

Call me a goof, but it bugged me more to watch them cut down a 12 inch diameter tree in order to get the critter within killing range. I've seen plenty of Porky's killed for food up here by shovel, rebar, and club. A few killed for the quills to make earings or because someone's dog got quilled.

That kill didn't bother me. There's a reason there's less game near villages than further upriver or down the road.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Watched Shockey's 3rd episode last night. He is a bit of a hypocrite. Feigning disgust about the native people killing for food a furry white creature as cruel. He hunts for trophies and castigates natives for killing for food. A real hero! Lost a bit of respect for him.

I'm glad you brought that up as I had similar thoughts about his squeemishness about clubbing "such a beautiful little animal". I thought, "Is it any less "brutal" (Mr. Shockey's word) to kill them with a .375 H&H than to hit them in the head with a club?"
I just thought he & his hunting pal (with the nasty hat) really overdid the wincing and sad-face making.

The only product he endorses that I can't stand is that dang bore laser

quote:

Originally posted by almostacowboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Watched Shockey's 3rd episode last night. He is a bit of a hypocrite. Feigning disgust about the native people killing for food a furry white creature as cruel. He hunts for trophies and castigates natives for killing for food. A real hero! Lost a bit of respect for him.

I'm glad you brought that up as I had similar thoughts about his squeemishness about clubbing "such a beautiful little animal". I thought, "Is it any less "brutal" (Mr. Shockey's word) to kill them with a .375 H&H than to hit them in the head with a club?"
I just thought he & his hunting pal (with the nasty hat) really overdid the wincing and sad-face making.

I've always liked Jim Shockey. He always seemed like a "real" sort of guy. However that little squeamish act was complete bullshit!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The only product he endorses that I can't stand is that dang bore laser

I am not sure what he says when he endorses it, but I have heard TV personalities state that such tools are invaluable for checking zeroes after a long flight.

No, that is pure bullshit, and we all know it.

I have tried several laser bore sighters, but none are as effective as the old tried and true optical ones. And even then, anyone who states any bore sighter is a good substitute for checking a zero is at best disingenuous.

quote:

Originally posted by almostacowboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Watched Shockey's 3rd episode last night. He is a bit of a hypocrite. Feigning disgust about the native people killing for food a furry white creature as cruel. He hunts for trophies and castigates natives for killing for food. A real hero! Lost a bit of respect for him.

I'm glad you brought that up as I had similar thoughts about his squeemishness about clubbing "such a beautiful little animal". I thought, "Is it any less "brutal" (Mr. Shockey's word) to kill them with a .375 H&H than to hit them in the head with a club?"
I just thought he & his hunting pal (with the nasty hat) really overdid the wincing and sad-face making.

I havent seen the episode but from what I heard about the incident - it was just totally unexpected. Cuscus are very cute and furry too.

I am traveling and have not seen the episode in question . Can someone please briefly summarize it?

Larry
They were riding in the truck & saw the cuscus from it high in a tree.
They stopped the truck & hurried over quite excited to have seen it.
Then the natives start chopping the tree down.
When the tree falls they catch it by the tail & it starts giving a distress cry. Apparently its only defense is to climb.
Next thing they show a guy going after it with a machete. They did not show the actual killing of the animal.
That's my memory of what I saw.

We do it here in US
Trappers for that matter, just nobody puts it on film otherwise hell would break loose with anti's
Life and death cen be ugly in many ways
Love Shockeys shows except his partner/producers ( can't remember his name)
Total whiner and drama queen but it adds some spice to the show
Don't care for this black powder thing, if you gonna do primitive weapon then do at least good old fashion cap and ball or just use good old rifle

AAZW - I own/use the laser boresighter that Shockey touts on his show. Had mine long before I saw him using/promoting it. Works to perfection for me. I can purposely move the scope 2" right and 2" low and that's exactly what the boresighter shows me. Move it back and it's right on again. I ALWAYS shoot my rifle when arriving at a hunting destination to determine if zero has changed. But, for example on my annual 30 day trip to Moz, my rifle is on and off the truck a couple of times daily, so a quick look through the sighter every couple of days lets me immediately know if I need to hit the shooting range again. I don't use it as a precise sighting in tool, but it's awesome to keep tabs to make sure nothing has gone astray. Nothing is quicker, easier and less time consuming for me anyway.

Just like all the thousands of items out there, use them if you like'em, trash'em if you don't.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The only product he endorses that I can't stand is that dang bore laser

I am not sure what he says when he endorses it, but I have heard TV personalities state that such tools are invaluable for checking zeroes after a long flight.

No, that is pure bullshit, and we all know it.

I have tried several laser bore sighters, but none are as effective as the old tried and true optical ones. And even then, anyone who states any bore sighter is a good substitute for checking a zero is at best disingenuous.

boarkiller, are you referring to Cory Knowlton. He purchased the Rino hunt at DSC.

I like Corey & think he adds to the show.JMO

Cory was a big part of the Professionals Show. Did not realize his wealth until he bought the Rino hunt.

Yes that be him.
He is alright, but still too much of a drama queen
I'd say good for him with Rhino hunt, that's a plus

Watching the new episode of uncharted, now I know where Sammy Sosa is from.
Man they all looked like him in that village in New Guinea

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
AAZW - I own/use the laser boresighter that Shockey touts on his show. Had mine long before I saw him using/promoting it. Works to perfection for me. I can purposely move the scope 2" right and 2" low and that's exactly what the boresighter shows me. Move it back and it's right on again. I ALWAYS shoot my rifle when arriving at a hunting destination to determine if zero has changed. But, for example on my annual 30 day trip to Moz, my rifle is on and off the truck a couple of times daily, so a quick look through the sighter every couple of days lets me immediately know if I need to hit the shooting range again. I don't use it as a precise sighting in tool, but it's awesome to keep tabs to make sure nothing has gone astray. Nothing is quicker, easier and less time consuming for me anyway.

Just like all the thousands of items out there, use them if you like'em, trash'em if you don't.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The only product he endorses that I can't stand is that dang bore laser

I am not sure what he says when he endorses it, but I have heard TV personalities state that such tools are invaluable for checking zeroes after a long flight.

No, that is pure bullshit, and we all know it.

I have tried several laser bore sighters, but none are as effective as the old tried and true optical ones. And even then, anyone who states any bore sighter is a good substitute for checking a zero is at best disingenuous.

Larry:

Good to know; this might be much better than the ones I have used, but I would still never substitute using a bore sighter in place of checking a zero. As you state, it might be wonderful to check your rifle to see if anything moved, but it is not a substitute for zeroing. And I honestly can't remember who I heard say make that claim.

Does the unit you use light up at 100 yards? How does it fit inside the chamber so that you know the laser is truly centered in the bore?

Or you could save the money and learn how to do it the old fashioned way with a few cushions and a bit of tape that PHs have been using successfully for donkey's years.

Steve - With the limit on ammo that one can take on Safari these days, just makes sense to me to use the laser every couple of days to confirm zero hasn't moved. Let's see 30 days on safari, shoot every other days to check zero at two to four shots per session equals 15 to 30 rounds and a couple of hours time. Ten seconds per check and no ammo fired unless needed, my method will stay the same!!

Steve - I use the "old fashion way" as you put it, cushions and a little tape when arriving.

AAW - I have no idea if the laser is centered in the bore???? I just want to know if something has "moved" and this is accomplished with my method. Not much into the ways and whys, just results.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Or you could save the money and learn how to do it the old fashioned way with a few cushions and a bit of tape that PHs have been using successfully for donkey's years.

I've never understood why anyone would want to buy one of those things....... the old fashioned way is pretty much always faster and assuming no mechanical faults, the rifle can be bought to bang on zero with 2 or 3 rounds at most.

Does that make me an old fashioned bugger?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I've never understood why anyone would want to buy one of those things....... the old fashioned way is pretty much always faster and assuming no mechanical faults, the rifle can be bought to bang on zero with 2 or 3 rounds at most.

Does that make me an old fashioned bugger?

Same here. It can't be any more simple, really.

Gentlemen:

I don't own such a device nor have I ever used one. I have thought about buying one.

I agree that the old fashioned way is no doubt the best. However, I have often thought about using one of these devices when the gun has been bumped and checking the zero is not possible at the moment.

The decision to buy or not buy was not impacted by Shockey's endorsement.

Larryshores - I guess a lot of folks here can't/don't/won't actually READ a post. What you stated is exactly the way I use the laser device. I NEVER use it to check the rifle on arriving in camp in place of actually shooting it. Simply use it to check every couple of days or when rifle, as you said, has been bumped. I didn't realize this was that hard for people to grasp or I would have never brought it up. GEEZ.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Gentlemen:

I don't own such a device nor have I ever used one. I have thought about buying one.

I agree that the old fashioned way is no doubt the best. However, I have often thought about using one of these devices when the gun has been bumped and checking the zero is not possible at the moment.

The decision to buy or not buy was not impacted by Shockey's endorsement.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Larryshores - I guess a lot of folks here can't/don't/won't actually READ a post. What you stated is exactly the way I use the laser device. I NEVER use it to check the rifle on arriving in camp in place of actually shooting it. Simply use it to check every couple of days or when rifle, as you said, has been bumped. I didn't realize this was that hard for people to grasp or I would have never brought it up. GEEZ.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Gentlemen:

I don't own such a device nor have I ever used one. I have thought about buying one.

I agree that the old fashioned way is no doubt the best. However, I have often thought about using one of these devices when the gun has been bumped and checking the zero is not possible at the moment.

The decision to buy or not buy was not impacted by Shockey's endorsement.

Exactly Larry. But you responded to my post that one media guy, who I don't recall, said he uses it to check his zero upon on arrival in camp. The fact is you don't use it in the manner I was critical ie, confirming a zero.

Personally, the old optical models put me on paper every time at 100 yards. I never thought about bringing one to check zero shifts, but you have a good idea, and in the end, we all benefit.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I've never understood why anyone would want to buy one of those things....... the old fashioned way is pretty much always faster and assuming no mechanical faults, the rifle can be bought to bang on zero with 2 or 3 rounds at most.

Does that make me an old fashioned bugger?

Steve:

It might be the old-fashioned way but certainly works and in a lot of cases beats technology.

What better than looking through the barrel at a target set at 20yds and adjusting the scope accordingly?
As you correctly said, 2 maybe 3 and you're on the button!

I must be one of the lucky ones!

I have been using one rifle, one bullet, one load, for so many years.

I take my rifle apart after being on safari to give it a complete cleaning.

I check the zero as I load my ammo for the next hunt - I normally shoot 3 rounds from each rifle.

I might have to make minor adjustments because of powder lot and so on.

But, I have never had to adjust my scope on safari, despite all the hammerings the rifle gets on the back of the truck!

Saeed:

Consider yourself lucky. I have not been as fortunate.

In my first trip to Tanzania, I was on fire. I could not miss. One day, I missed (badly) a sable broadside at 75 yards with a good rest. I thought something was wrong. I checked. The gun shot 17 inches to the left at 25 yards. It can and does happen .

Larry, those Tasco scopes can be a bit touchy :-)