Continuing on the theme started by Hunter Formerly Known as Texas Hunter on antivenom in camp, we have a lot of experience in hunting Africa on this Forum. If you added up the man-days/months/years of hunting in Africa represented by the posters on this Forum I suspect the number would be surprisingly large.

With that in mind, how many folks know of anyone that has ever been bitten by a snake in Africa? Not seen a snake, not had a close call with a snake, not almost got bitten, but someone that was actually bitten. And if you know of someone that was bitten, what was the outcome? I would suspect that even as rare as charges by dangerous game with resulting injuries are, run ins with snakes resulting in a bite are even rarer.

Never saw any in Namibia during the last part of September, but it crossed my mind as I was low-crawling through the grass getting closer to a kudu.

The apprentice PH in camp in Tanzania last year told me that his grand father was killed by a snake bite while hunting several years earlier. I don't remember if he indicated what kind of snake, if he knew.

Me personally, I have never come close. In fact, with the exception of one trip in particular, I have seen very few snakes in Africa. Several trips with none at all seen.

Guess I am lucky.

My hunting partners and I with cumulatively hundreds of years in the veld between us, have never been bitten. Face to face with mambas crawling through the veld - yes, stood on puffies in the veld on a cold winters morning - yes, stuck at by night adders – yes, spat at by cobras and rinkhals - yes, but bites - not yet, touch your walnut stock.

I've been bitten by a non-venomous house snake, but that was my own fault for messing with the animal when I shouldn't have. Father in law was tagged by a Jamesons mamba as a youngster, also self inflicted as he was in the trade at the time. He got very lucky as it was just a scratch and the effects were very mild.

Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I would suspect that even as rare as charges by dangerous game with resulting injuries are, run ins with snakes resulting in a bite are even rarer.

Not true. I've been bitten by black mambas four times. In each case it was fatal.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I've been bitten by black mambas four times. In each case it was fatal.

Starting to sound like Shirley MacLaine.

In nine trips I've seen poisonous snakes every trip, usually puff adders with a couple mambas thrown in. Generally when in the bush you're third in line so they present little risk. Most hunting is also done in the cold months when activity is lessened. I have been tagged three times by scorpions and have a friend that was very sick requiring a hospital stay from a spider bite. Fortunately I'm not allergic and had no problem other than pain from the stings. Another hunter at the same elephant camp a little later was stung by a scorpion and wound up in intensive care for three days. A camp worker at one of the camps I hunted at in Zimbabwe was bitten by a small puff adder, went to the clinic and was back two days later none the worse for wear other than a stiff and badly discolored hand.

Well I hunted in the Selous and saw 5 black mambas.. Four crawled away however the 5th attacked us and we shot him at 15 feet when after he attacked the truck and struck at the tracker seated behind me...
Venom was found on the back of the trackere to tell you how close he came to us..I was the second to see the mamba and my mind was screaming mamba and for a matter of around 20 seconds it was very intense..

He was big 8 feet long...

http://picasaweb.google.com/retreever/MamaChopChopSAdve...#4966442519099539474


Mike

Mike,

I've seen 7 snakes total snd I don't know anyone that was bitten. I give very litte thought to them while in the bush.

Mark

Vehicles and firearms are FAR more dangerous on safari than snakes are....

In ten trips I've seen maybe a dozen assorted nasties... mambas, most black and one green, cobras and puffies. None ever really bothered us but a black mamba in Tanzania once scared us silly when we got between it and a warthog hole it called home!

That said, a good friend and hunting companion had his game scout in Zambia bitten by an adder in his hut and he died before anyone discovered his situation. Cost my bud a day of hunting as Dries Visser had to drive the body back to HQ and explain what happened. Interesting that the new game scout took up right where the old deceased one left off... sleeping in his old hut!

quote:

Not true. I've been bitten by black mambas four times. In each case it was fatal.

Begging your pardon Will, but are you being serious? If it was fatal, did you die and be resusitated after each bite? If they were all fatal, how are you still here?

Where is the "hook, line and sinker" emoticon when you need it!

My grandmother was bitten in greece by a puff adder.It's not Africa but close.The adder is the only poisonous snake found in greece.She was digging some potatoes in a small plot of land near her home when she thought she was stung by a bee on her finger.While she raised her hand to see, there was an adder that hung to her finger with its fangs.I heard she was driven immediately to the hospital and it was a serious thing,her arm swole up and she came close to dying.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I would suspect that even as rare as charges by dangerous game with resulting injuries are, run ins with snakes resulting in a bite are even rarer.

Not true. I've been bitten by black mambas four times. In each case it was fatal.

"Black Mamba" is the name of Will's African girlfriend.

I live in Southeast Georgia, and I see a lot more poisonous snakes here that I have seen in Africa. I did however have a "close encounter" with a mamba in Tanzania in 2005 that renewed my faith in my ability to move very fast when I need to.

We've got our share of poisonous snakes in Texas too, but unless you have an allergic reaction, you don't die from the bite in a few hours. For me, that is a critical (pun intended) difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Where is the "hook, line and sinker" emoticon when you need it!

Close:

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It would be interesting to compare the mortality rate of ~0.35 per 100,000, with the mortality rate for automobile accidents in the bush, shooting accidents, dangerous game encounters, charter crashes and other similar events. I am still guessing that the mortality rate for snakebites as compared to some of these other incidents is lower.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Where is the "hook, line and sinker" emoticon when you need it!

Close:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glad I could amuse yall. It was the late end of a long day...

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
In South Africa we know that the incidence is mainly determined by Geography as well as season with incidence higher in rural subtropical and tropical areas and then also higher in the summer months.

The incidence was around 24 bites per 100,000 of the population and this was similar to numbers in Rhodesia before it became Zimbabwe
( After the fall of Rhodesia any semblence of modern medical care went out the window and so did medical research, currently under the ANC Government sadly rural medicine also went downhill and thus modern or up to date data is unavailable)

The mortality rate was around 0.35 per 100,000

Africans living in huts and dirt floor dwellings also buildings with thatched roofs (ie buildings that are not sealed well) will have a much higher incidence of snake bite.

Also snakes will follow their prey eg rodents. If a rodent can get into a hut, a snake can.

Snakes have also known to live in the thatch and hang down. :O As a kid we used to have fun hunting snakes in old colonial buildings made out of wattle ( or in our case, mallee logs ) and daub with tin roofs covering the old thatched roof. Snakes above and snakes below.

quote:

Originally posted by Tex21:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Where is the "hook, line and sinker" emoticon when you need it!

Close:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glad I could amuse yall. It was the late end of a long day...

Jason,

Sorry....just kidding. Fear not, I believed the Google sewer based internet service for embarrassingly long minutes on April 1.

I have come across several poisinous snakes in Africa but no close encounters per say.

Saw the last foot of a black mamba sticking out of the bush in Tanz at a roadside water hole that must have been fantastically huge. The diameter of its body was about 3 inches just a foot from the tip of its tail. That must have been a massive snake.

None of the trackers could be convinced to go into the bush to find out.

my PH in Tz., Zane Van de Merve was bitten on the hand while lying in his bunk earlier in the season . he was takng a midday nap and the snake ,a mozambiquen(sp??) cobra apparently bite his hand while it was hanging off the bed near the floor. he was airlifted to Dar where they wanted to amputate his arm and he refused to let them. anyway they saved his arm but he had some nice scars around his thumb. several weeks later he was back in camp at work. incidently he found me a nice buff 2 hours into the hunt on the first day- we were on the Kilombero river in the Selous.

When I was younger, I fancied myself as a bit of a snake collector and caught a number of species. Many boys in Africa go through this phase and many are the deformed/missing fingers that can be seen if one takes a close look. I came to grief twice and the second time chucked in my hobby for good. The first time I received a blast of spitting cobra venom to the eyes. It caused intense pain for some time, but my eyes were flushed with water immediately and I recovered fine. Although....my right eye took most of the venom and it is now definetely the weaker of the two. The second incident involved a vicious little snake known widely as a burrowing adder, although it is not actually an adder. When science discovered their blunder, they changed its label to a stiletto snake. this mean little fellow looks deceptively like a harmless blind snake and it is back fanged, enabling it to inflict many bites every year on clueless young boys who consider themselves snake collectors. A stilleto snake's mouth is very small and most all bites are on the finger tip or toe. There is no known antidote, and although people don't often die from a bite, the syptoms are terrible - massive sloughing and swelling. Too, the pain is indescribable - sheer agony for days. the only thing one can really do is juice up on painkillers in a big way. It's also a good idea to get a doctor to cut when the swelling and pressure becomes too much to bear - get all that filthy green pus out. God, I'm in agony just thinking about it.

Mark, pray tell me how it is you have only seen 7 snakes????????????? I've seen hundreds....

David,

Really! Seven snakes total. On one 34 day affair in Zambia I saw 1 each black mamba, sptting cobra, python and a litte green job. In RSA and Botswana in '04 I saw 2 huge pythons in 30 days and in Cameroon in January we saw one long green and yellow snake. That's it. Otherwise I've spent upto 28 days in the bush without seeing a single snake. Heck! I've only seen one scorpion. I suppose hunting mostly the middle of your winter has had some bearing on the number of sightings.

Mark

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From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retri...928881&dopt=Abstract

The burrowing asp, Atractaspis bibronii, causes a significant proportion of cases of snakebite near Empangeni, Natal. Data from 8 cases are presented. All were in rural Zulus, and the bites were usually inflicted on the foot during summer nights, in or near the patient's home. There was no sexual bias, but over 50% of the victims were under 14 years of age. Envenomation was mild, characterised by moderate to intense pain and localised swelling, regional lymphadenopathy with occasional discoloration, blistering or necrosis at the bite site. Neurological signs were absent, but symptoms of headache, painful eye movements, dry mouth and hoarseness were recorded. Minor haematological abnormalities were detected in a few patients. Treatment involved analgesics and limb elevation, with antibiotic cover and intravenous fluids when necessary. Antivenom is not effective and was not used. There were no deaths.

Yeah, sure Alf

Have you put your croc encyclopedia aside now and taken up the snake book? Have you ever been bitten by a burrowing adder/stiletto snake? I doubt it. I'll post a picture of my finger tomorrow - yes, I still have it, minus the fingernail and somewhat bent. And, for your information, fatalities from stiletto snake bites have been recorded - I think you'll probably need to turn the page to find that paragraph. For your information also, my arm swelled to twice the size, right up to my shoulder and the doctor did feel it necessary to slit my finger and relieve the pressure. Yes, a copious quantity of green muck jetted out. Mild discomfort?? I wonder who penned your snake book - I was in absolute agony for days and I don't think I'm overly nerdish. been there done that Alf, and don't want to go back. Having said that, you can go back to your books now. Once last point for anyone who is interested. Probably about two minutes after I was bitten, I collapsed in a dead faint. Don't know why that was, but maybe as the full force of the poison coursed through my veins.

Some more information for you Alf. In any poisonous snakebite instance, syptoms vary. It all depends on the quantity of venom injected. My guess is that I had a good dose.

quote:

Envenomation was mild, characterised by moderate to intense pain and localised swelling, regional lymphadenopathy with occasional discoloration, blistering or necrosis at the bite site. Neurological signs were absent, but symptoms of headache, painful eye movements, dry mouth and hoarseness were recorded. Minor haematological abnormalities were detected in a few patients.

Mark

What you say about sighting few if any snakes during winter is 100%. I don't believe I've ever seen a snake in Chewore and I'm always there in winter. I don't remember seeing one anyhow. But I see many here in the lowveld, and now that I think of it the vast majorty of sightings are in the summer months. Valid point, I wasn't doubting your word, just curious.

Have made 8 trips to Zimbabwe. Shortest being 2 weeks and several one or two months length. This was always Aug/Sept. I have seen 2 Puff Adders,one Vine snake,one egyptian Cobra, one Rynkal, One Boomslang and two Pythons, and 2 I could not Identify. I am inordinately afraid of snakes and pay particular attention to the area I'm in. I live in Southern Arizona and was born In Mississippi so am familiar with poisonous snakes in large numbers. Quite frankly they terrify me and that is the ONLY thing other than man in Africa that does. I never watch them on TV and never go to the reptile exhibit in the zoos. The most terrifying night I ever spent anywhere was laying in a blind in the dark waiting for a Leopard. The blind was next to a small group of termite mounds that the trackers said had cobras living in them as the openings were worn smooth from the snakes sliding in and out. They blocked them with rocks for me. To further compound the anxiety they had found a shed skin that was still pliable caught in a bush. It was about 8' long and they said it was a Black Mamba skin. Needless to say the night was spent in discomfort up until the time the Leopard came. I DID get the Leopard.

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Alf

I retract nothing. I mentioned nothing about ICU, transfusions, amputation, skin grafts etc, so kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth. Fear mongering?? What are you talking about? I mentioned facts that's all - exactly what happened to me. Are you suggesting I'm a liar?
I have treated many snakebites in Africa, as I have always lived in rural Africa. I was born on an African farm and have no doubt I'll die on one. Go figure how many snake bite incidents I've dealt with. I have seen a child die from a mamba bite so put that in your pipe and smoke it. I don't care where you have served, your cluelessness regarding the possible effects of a stiletto snake bite doesn't do much to back the validity of your declared 'experience'.

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"Massive" is relative. If 50% of another's finger tip rots off, it's minor. If it's 50% of MY finger it's massive!

Alf,

If you'd really like to know what your personal symptoms may be from this snake. Why don't you volunteer to have one bite you?

This is all very interesting......

For those who have seen snake bites in Africa, where (on the body) do most of the bite occur?

I'm assuming that the adders will be the foot/lower leg.

I've read that the mambas are particurly aggressive and often target the face (?).

I read above about the hands...

Where do most occur? Thinking of this as, in the US, wearing snake chaps and snake proof boots would take care of most "hunting" situations. Even if the snake is unseen few will be bitten above the lower thigh.

It doesn't sound as if there is much that be done for precaution (in regard to chaps, etc) in Africa.

JCM

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