The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting So, Cecil wasn't lured with bait?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I hadn't heard this version, maybe the truth but probably won't hear or see it on TV since it contradicts earlier reports that make a better story. "Cecil the lion was lured to his death by one-eyed temptress who has remaining peeper on his brother She used a sex scent to attract black-maned Cecil outside the safety of Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe, where he was killed by US dentist Walter Palmer Cecil the lion was tragically lured to his death by a one-eyed lioness he had started mating with, experts claim. The temptress, Cathy, lost her right peeper in a fight with another lioness over a male – and now has the remaining one on Cecil’s brother, Jericho. Experts say she used a sex scent to attract black-maned Cecil outside the safety of Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe, where he was killed weeks later by US dentist Walter Palmer. Cecil frequently left his pride of three lionesses and eight cubs, which he led with Jericho, to join Cathy and her two young nieces – who are now thought to be pregnant. The 12-year-old also had a brush with death at the hands of hunters before he was killed last month. A respected source in Hwange said: “Cecil was seen dividing his time with his pride and Cathy and her nieces. “Cathy is thought to have released a false breeding pheromone, which gives off the idea she is in season. “She is known to have lured him over the rail tracks on the park boundary to privately owned land.” The source added: “One time outside the boundaries hunters took aim at Cecil before the guide recognised his black mane and his GPS collar and ordered them not to pull their triggers. “Cecil was following Cathy again when he was caught out by the scent of animal guts at a hide where Dr Palmer was waiting with his crossbow. They should have recognised him.” Following his death, experts say Cecil’s young pride have just a five per cent chance of survival. One cub was killed when a big cat tried to mate with its mother. Now Jericho has abandoned the pride and been seen hanging out with Cathy. Meanwhile, her nieces are thought to be carrying Cecil’s last litter. Another source said: “It only takes 121 days for a lioness to give birth so we will know for sure soon enough.” Guide Theo Bronkhorst, 52, was this week charged with failing to prevent an illegal hunt. He denies wrongdoing." Karl Evans | ||
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Funny how the folks who were tracking Cecil haven't disclosed his range patterns. It is very typical for the older males to visit multiple prides and wonder all over hell's half acre looking for easy kills - like cattle and goats and the occasional tourist. If ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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That little unfaithful prick. He had it coming " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Meaning Cecil of course :-) " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Stunning development IF true | |||
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This is a BS story. Cecil had a pride and was lured outside the park with bait. Any one using bait to get a lion or a leopard is not a hunter in my eyes. Second the lionesses are the ones who go out for a hunt, not the male. He does help if the prey is a big buffalo but normally they don't hunt. Too heavy for the sprint. They are territorial and will not visit other prides! Those prides have also a Lion to protect them. If a lion is killed, his cubs will be killed by a new lion taking over his pride. So killing one lion causes the death of 5 - 10 cubs. Cecil was not a roaming lion, why should he! Cattle is sometimes killed by an old lioness. No tourists are killed by lions because they move around in land-rovers. | |||
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I can understand a female fighting to protect her cubs, and males fighting each other for dominance- the right to breed, .....but two pride females fighting each other over an adult male? | |||
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What is all this bullshit with names and relationships? Cecil and Jericho, brothers? Give me a F'ing break! Like they know these two lions were litter mates 13 years ago, right. NOT! People listen to this crap without thinking critically about what others are saying. As far as "Cathy" goes... Now we're talking about nieces and such as if they are people. Good God, lets not forget all the cousins while we're at it. This whole thing has become just so much bullshit. | |||
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One-eyed temptress, seduction, wife swapping, infidelity, dead beat dads, illegitimate children, incest, attempted murder, murder, etc. Damn, sounds like an episode from the Jerry Springer Show. Throw a little DNA into the mix, and now you have transitioned to the "Who Ya Baby Daddy Show" (aka - Maury Povich show). DSC Life Member HSC Life Member NRA Life Member SCI RMEF | |||
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Until one of the dumb bastards gets too cocky and either steps out of the vehicle or hangs half out of the window. | |||
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Cajun - I wanted to say all that, but you said it better. Have to say this Cathy seems to be a hot number, breaking up families and having foursomes with her nieces .... Jeez, people - what a load of crap, apart from the bit where he may have followed her out of the park .... -- Promise me, when I die, don't let my wife sell my guns for what I told I her I paid for them. | |||
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So that woman who worked on the Game of Thrones set, who was killed in RSA last month is faking it, Lizzy? Idiot! (Lizzy, not Fujotupu). -- Promise me, when I die, don't let my wife sell my guns for what I told I her I paid for them. | |||
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Are you brain dead? | |||
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It seems he was feeding on an elephant carcass some couple of clicks outside the park, but that bait was also being dragged that night. | |||
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Good that you qualify this statement with it being your opinion....that's it nothing more. Does not make you right nor your opinion qualified.
Definetely not true. You haven't spent enough time in the bush to know this. It is indeed rather common for males to visit more than one pride. You purport to be in Zimbabwe now so track down the "Cecil" researchers and ask them.
Infanticide is not guaranteed in these instances so no one can predict what would happen. In this specific case of the lion referred to as "Cecil", it appears several of the "cubs" were 7+ months old. That in itself makes them less prone to infanticide, especially female young. Secondly, he was part of a coalition with Jericho and he is still around able to deter or protect against a pride take over. Pride take overs don't always occur immeadiately following the removal of the pride male by which at that stage, the 7+ month old young will be close to 1 year old. At that age, the males would anyways be subjected to being chased out by Jericho or an incoming male and proceed as nomads as per a normal natural cycle.
All male lion that are of mature age roam. It's part of their behavior to roam in and out of a pride(s) that fall within their territory.
Correct. Cattle is also more often killed by male lions, especially the old and solitary males that are out of a pride structure. The best science indicates that this often occurs from 6 years of age! "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Bwanamich, thank you for In and around Etosha in Namibia there are many prides of lions and the older males all roam and most are responsible for the lion/cattle encounters. A few of the males are collared and their roaming patterns are impressively large and predictable. That is also why over 80 lions have been shot/poisoned outside of the park this year. I am sure the group that had the freaken lion collared knew this and also knew it was only a matter of time before he was axed by someone. They most likely had their story ready in order to raise more funds for themselves. Our dentist simply made the story a whole lot more horrific for the antis. Mission accomplished... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Interesting observation. If male lions do not roam, then why the GPS collar? | |||
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I am offended by your stupidity.... Birmingham, Al | |||
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Sounds like somebody needs to be making sandwiches... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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It's only temporary until they can be outfitted with smart-phones, but in the meantime they need them to find the nearest Starbucks.  | |||
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I doubt that anyone that stupid could make a decent sandwich.... Birmingham, Al | |||
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I have never heard such stupid crap in my life! The only reason this lion was not legally taken was if the concession had no quota for lion. The fact that the lion came off the protected park is not a reason to not take him. The fact that this lion was 14 yrs old excepts him from harvest because of age being over the 4yrs of age Zim's rule making him legal. The fact that he was baited doesn't make him illegal, and because the placement of blind in the concession is the responsibility of the safari company, and the PH in charge this in no way is the client's fault. The radio color is no reason to not take the lion if he is in a legal concession, when the client has a lion permit. Until it is proven that the doctor knew he was in an illegal concession for lion, he should be considered innocent! Case closed! Kangaroo court march on!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac I would agree with all of your points, with the exception of the last one. It is always the responsibility of the hunter to insure he is legal. Too many Americans look at African PHs like they are a get out of jail free card. That's just not the way the laws read. If our poor dentist can't prove some form of due diligence on his part he will find himself in a tight spot. Macs B U.S. Army Retired Alles gut! | |||
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The takeaway from all this is clients need to ask more questions. For instance: How many tags do you have? How many hunters are already booked for those tags? Will I get a full refund if all the tags are filled before I arrive? And the all important question before you leave - How many tags do you have remaining? A lot of outfitters have been getting away with robbery and it's time to end the charade. Excitement is great, but awareness is better. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Macs B you are technically correct. I can assure you, however, that I can find no way I could tell if a PH was driving me to a proper place in the bush. Where he takes me to a blind is supposed to be a place that is legal for me to hunt the animals I've booked for. That is why the law requires a foreigner to have a PH in the field. I doubt there is one in ten client hunter if given the hunting car would be able to tell which way to leave camp, much less find the boundaries of the concession he is hunting. Maybe if the hunter had hunted that concession many times before but I doubt it even then. I hunted one concession in Zambia where we had to go through the gate into the South Luangwa NTL park, and back into the upper Lupandi concession by simply crossing a dry wash with no boundary marker at all. My PH simply told me to load as soon as we crossed the dry wash because we were now in the hunting area. He could have told me to shoot a buffalo in the park and I would not have known I was breaking the law. SO I simply disagree that a foreign hunter doesn't have to depend on the PH to put him in the place where his hunt is legal. ..................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Lizzy clearly has a limited understanding of wild lion behavior. Males indeed roam in defense of territories, as well new females. I guess all the video I have shot over the years of male lions, both individually and alone, killing bull buffalo must have been flukes?? There are no "for sures" in the behavior of truly wild lions. I have seen all the Wild Kingdom theories blown to hell more than once. Dave Fulson | |||
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So, those are great questions but you can be lied to and how would you know? I think another good rule would not be to hunt in Zimbabwe. | |||
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Well you could ask the same question to the broader segments of society, that go about identifying their motor yachts, aircraft, and even hurricanes with human name tags. | |||
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Social behaviour of lions Why don't you post your video here? | |||
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That is their own fault.Some idiots jump into a lion cage at a zoo. Nothing to do with lions. | |||
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Originally posted by Lizzy:
Until one of the dumb bastards gets too cocky and either steps out of the vehicle or hangs half out of the window.[/QUOTE] That is their own fault.Some idiots jump into a lion cage at a zoo. Nothing to do with lions.[/QUOTE] Read your own statement you dumb broad! Do the fkn Lions eat tourists (people) or not ? The circumstances leading to their getting mauled or devoured are immaterial. | |||
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Lizzie: Read it slowly so the information might sink in: http://caa-web-prod-01.ist.ber...phy-hunting-ban-will | |||
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Clearly, Lizzy's ignorance isn't limited to just lion behavior. He also has no clue about who Dave is or what he does for a living!  | |||
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Fujo: I agree with you, but you could put it a bit more diplomatically for Lizzie. She won't listen anyway, and she is very likely to be eaten or stomped unless she stays in the gari. Mac, Totally right, for me too. I recall one occasion where there was a disputed boundary of a concession. Thankfully it never became an issue for me. I preferred to stay out of the disputed territory. | |||
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Well this web-side is not available,it reads..... | |||
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That is their own fault.Some idiots jump into a lion cage at a zoo. Nothing to do with lions.[/QUOTE] Read your own statement you dumb broad! Do the fkn Lions eat tourists (people) or not ? The circumstances leading to their getting mauled or devoured are immaterial.[/QUOTE] OK you dumb bastard, how come that when I went down the Zambezi river in a canoe,sleeping on the riverbanks in a sleeping bag with no tent and no weapons, hearing lions roar quite near,they didn't eat us? Of course are the circumstances material. If a lion kills an idiot, doesn't mean he is going to eat him. If you kill a burglar doesn't mean you are going to fry him. | |||
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Luck is a fickle entity-- Continue to press and you may experience that fickle nature 1st hand- Prime Example: the recent demise of the experienced hiker in Yellowstone-etc, etc- Smug feelings of security and superiority of beliefs are oft dashed on the hard rocks (or teeth and claws) of a stark reality | |||
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Define "US". How many people made up "US"? Was it an organized trip and was the guide armed?. Also curious why you listed your location as Portugal when you started posting on here yet now it is Zimbabwe? I live in Alaska but I've been to Zimbabwe and have been on the shores of the Zambezi without a firearm. Should I now act like I'm from there? Cheers whatever your real name is, Jim ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Lizzy, are us poor dumb bastards to assume your singular experience is now the definitive law of nature? | |||
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