Hoping to hunt buffalo and tuskless cow in 2007. Will hunt in Chewore area of Zim where most shots are under 50 yards.

I have worked up two soft/solid combo loads in my Winchester M70 458 Win Mag with different bullets.

The first combo:

510 grain Woodleigh Soft at 2,050 fps
500 grain Speer AGS Solid at 2,050 fps

The second combo:

450 grain Barnes TSX at 2,250 fps
450 grain Barnes Banded Solid at 2,250 fps


Each combo above literally shoots on top of each other at 100 yards. The point of impact is the same, whether soft or solid.


There are also plainsgame (from Grysbok to Eland) in the area that I might take while DG hunting. Last time while hunting in the same area, I took an impala and an eland with my 416 Rigby (400 grn TSX at 2,400 fps) as targets of opportunity while looking for buffalo.

Anyway, if you were in the same position, which of the two soft/solid combos would you choose.

Thanks!

Tim

Looks like either selection would be fine. I took my 458 as my only rifle twice to Africa. It, however, shoots longer bullets much better than short ones (500 gr vs 400 gr Fed w/TB's). Did mamage to nail a zebra at 200 yds with the 458. Best Wishes on your hunt. Those AGS seem to me like they ought to have awesome penetration with their high sectional density.

I'm taking the Horandy 500's in both solid and soft in the .458 Lott for trophy bulls. I'm also taking the .500 Barnes in solids and softs. I'll let everyone know what happens.

What? You should be getting 2150 fps with 500 gr. bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
What? You should be getting 2150 fps with 500 gr. bullets.

I know. I do get almost 2,200 fps when I use A2230 powder. At this velocity, the group I got was about 1.5" to 1.75".

I then tried a load with 68 grains of IMR 3031. The velocity was just above 2,050 fps (chronographed) and the three shots went into the same hole and exactly where the Woodleigh 510 soft points shoot.

There is enough room in the case to probably get 70 or so grains of IMR 3031 in there. I will probably try it and see if I get the same accuracy.


Will, what do you think of the 450 grain Barnes Banded Solid at 2,250 fps for elephant?

Thanks.

Tim

Tim,

I have never used the 450 gr. or the banded bullets, so have no knowledge. I would guess that it would work great as others swear by the penetration of blunt nose solids.

Let us know how they work if you use them. I would make sure that they feed okay.

Shumba!

1 1/2 or 1 3/4 " groups at 100 yds mean less than 1/2" groups at 25 yds the max range you will shoot an elephant. The 1/1/2" groups are fine for 100yds at buff as their vitals are quite large. The extra 100 fps velocity is more valuable than sub minute of angle accuracy in my opinion. I'll take 500 grns over 450 any day for ele or buff but then I believe in long heavy bullets.

465H&H

Shumba

As others have said either load should work very well. I'm kind of a 458 WM fan myself and will be taking mine to Tanzania in '07. I personally will be loading the 450 TSX only just because I want to try it on buffalo. I'm expecting great results.

Mark

Shumba,

I can speak from experience the Barnes X
The trip I saw you and Mark in Harare, I used the X bullet on buf with my Lott..Thru the shoulder all the way to the far shoulder and stopped under the skin like a big pimple...and On the ground in 11yds....Not even enough time to give his death bellow...
Same goes for the solid also...


Mike

the Selous in 55 days

Tim, I hope you are taking the .404j as backup. It should be up to the task w/ those great looking Barnes banded solids.

Try H 4895. Its working well for me.

I used an IMR 3031, 68gr load last Oct in Zim with the 500gr Woodleigh softs and 67gr for the 500gr Woodleigh solid. I shot three buff and two tuskless with the solids. Penetration was fine and the Woodleighs which were recovered were perfect.

I shot a zebra with the soft; the bullet entered just behind the onside leg and exitted just in front of the offside leg leaving a quarter size exit wound. The zebra dropped at the shot.

For buff and elephant, I would rather have the horsepower than the groups.

JPK

I just have to submit, I have heard countless individuals state the 458 Win Mag is a thing that NEVER should have been.

At the time it was released there was a "rage" over the 2.5 inch belted mags and this design just fit that "hot trend".

The 458 LOTT is what WINCHESTER should have marketed in the 50's instead of the "short" version that they chose.

So, since you have plenty of time, why not rechamber to 458 LOTT.

You'll have a round which has a super history on AFRICAN DANDEROUS GAME instead of a round which has a "checkered" past.

In the LOTT you'll be able to use the 500 grain bullets and easily get the velocity that the 450 grainers give in the WIN MAG.

Presure would likely be lower as well, and that is better for your rifle and your shoulder.

I am not claiming expertise by any means, I am just stating something that's been said/written a zillion times by laymen and experts.

Jack,

There really is no reason to rechamber a 458WM to Lott. The Lott is more powerful but so are a great many cartridges. If you have a 458WM rifle that you like you have plenty of horsepower to kill anything that roams the planet already. Modern powders and bullets have taken care of the original problems the cartridge had.

Often times a 458WM rifle is built on a 30-06 length action so the conversion is not just a rechamber but a more complicated process. Also when you go to the Lott you are increasing your recoil level significantly. To tame that recoil folks are adding different forms of weight to their rifls which can turn a fairly handy and portable rifle into one that is heavy to carry and difficult to shoot. For me I'll stick with my 8.5 lb 458WM.

Mark

I mentioned H 4895 and that it is working well for me. I should have added that I'm getting 2150+fps out of a midlin' load in the Hornaday manual, 6th edition.

Jack,

What you say about the 458wm is a little kernel of truth, greatly expanded over time. Today's powder and bullets make the 458wm what it was supposed to be from the beginning.

JPK

I agree completely with Mark on this one. With modern Federal or Hornady ammo or well put together handloads the 458 Winchester can be taken into any kind of cover after any animal with complete confidence.

465H&H

I just measured a 6 shot, 100 yard group consisting of three (3) 500 grain Barnes Banded Solids and three (3) 510 Woodleigh soft points. The composite group for all six shots measured 1.8"

The 500 grain Barnes Banded solids averaged 2,175 fps and the Woodleigh softs averaged 2,125 fps.

I used A2230 powder for the above loads.

I guess 1.8" groups at 100 yards should do the trick on buff and ele. Also, no need to punch the chamber out to the 458 Lott when I'm easily getting 2,175 fps with a 500 grain bullet out of the 458 WM.

Thanks for all of the input.

Tim