So who makes a 3" 45-70 case? This would be so easy if you could get cases.

Norma makes a .45 basic case, #21123

Midway used to carry it, but currently they list Bertram as the only .45 basic brass and that is only 2.6"


Toolmaker

Just found, Huntington's sells it, it's 2.88" and $29.50 for 20

Also, Starline sells 45-100 brass for around $185 a two fifty pack.


Toolmaker

See
Buffalo Arms

Brent

Bufalo Arms is actually more expensive then HDS for the Norma and is about the same as Starline direct(although they do offer smaller quantities than Starline). That said, they also list Bell, but Bell is out of the commercial brass business, so either they have a little left, or they haven't updated their website.


Toolmaker

Assuming one can get an appropriate reamer, this sounds like a simple conversion, uh...what to call it? I crown thee

450 NE No. 3 (3" case!!).

What do you think D'Arcy Echols would say if you took him one and asked him to "pretty it up" a little?????

I think this rifle is something I would like to play with in 45-70. Using 400gr spitzer like the Barnes original or even better the NF soft point. This should be great for black bear, deer, hogs, etc.

The eight pound weight of this rifle may be to light to turn it into a pleasant 450 NE type rifle. However if it weighed as much as the Pedersoli Kodiak, then Katie bar the door, 450 Nittro here I come.

Hog Killer

For $500 I'd buy one in 45-70.

You guys remind me of a bunch of horny drunks in a bar at closing time:

"Damn, for a one-eyed, slack-jawed, rum-soaked slattern, she ain't bad lookin'!

Well mrlexma, if we all had a Boston lawyers income, we would turn our noses up too. But we do not, so we face reality. I am sure that you have gone out for a night on the town and dropped more that what this rifle will cost on a dinner party and though nothing of it. To me that is a bigger waste of funds, because it all turned to s#!t in about 24 hours. The rifle on the other hand, how ever below your high standards it may be, will still be usable for years to come. There are even those how will buy one just to have fun with it, and not worry about who they can impress or show off to.

Hog Killer

Proof again that a sense of humor is a terrible thing to waste.

quote:

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Originally posted by mrlexma:
You guys remind me of a bunch of horny drunks in a bar at closing time:

"Damn, for a one-eyed, slack-jawed, rum-soaked slattern, she ain't bad lookin'!

---

Your sense of humor wasn't wasted on me.
I wouldn't go to the trouble to order one, but if I ever find one in the rack at the local emporium, 'round about closin' time, it's going home with me. Have to be the .45/70 though.

Remington already exports over under double rifles made on the over and under shotgun they make in the states. It comes in 9.3x74R and 30-06.

Here's a link to the website in Spain were my friend bought his.
http://www.armeria-esp.com/index.htm

mrlexma,

Now, let's not start bickering.

Actually, there are a lot of things I do not like about traditional double rifles. For instance, they are way too heavy for the recoil involved, and way over-priced.

As I recall, the 404 Jeffery was the poor white trash version of a real rifle way back when. Now it is the sweatheart of the latest craze followers!

The CZ's were considered "crap" when they first came out, but they have found a following, including me.

Who knows, but a cleaned up, rechambered Rem. double rifle might be a decent gun. And it's about all I would want to invest in the one in one thousand instances where one is actaully needed.

Even bored out to the .45/90 or .457 magnum ( or whatever the round is called by Wild West Guns)it would make a fun gun to play around with. It would be the closest that I would ever come to owning a over .40 caliber double rifle.

Vapodog,

I'll bet D'Arcy would say something like; He'd rather be violated by a 100 Zulu warriors, then pretty one of those up.

Ralphie

quote:

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I'll bet D'Arcy would say something like; He'd rather be violated by a 100 Zulu warriors, then pretty one of those up.

---

Making a slik purse from a sow's ear is something he and other smiths are good at. Look at what they do with a P-17 enfield!!

When I started this thread I was thinking absolutely no one would want one.......and now I see the number of folks looking at them as a great "project" rifle or a custom potential.

Deep down however I don't think Butch Searcy is shaking in his pants over this developement.....He's probably smiling all over!!

I realize you don't know me, but trust me on this one.

RIP, thanks. And I should confess that I have done, more than once, what I teased others for doing here. Still, that never stops me from casting the first stone (or even pearls before swine).

Will--I would never bicker, much less quibble, with your well-taken and cogently stated remarks.

But never, no matter how self-deluded, drunk or temporarily deranged (or even penurious) I may become, can I imagine that I would buy a double-barrelled Russian Remington (a Rushington?).

And I am unrepentant and will continue going out to dinner once in a while no matter what anyone says.

Hey, unless you are willing to argue endlessly about pointless matters, you are just not going to be any fun.

Bill,

quote:

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mrlexma,

Now, let's not start bickering.

Actually, there are a lot of things I do not like about traditional double rifles. For instance, they are way too heavy for the recoil involved, and way over-priced.

As I recall, the 404 Jeffery was the poor white trash version of a real rifle way back when. Now it is the sweatheart of the latest craze followers!

The CZ's were considered "crap" when they first came out, but they have found a following, including me.

Who knows, but a cleaned up, rechambered Rem. double rifle might be a decent gun. And it's about all I would want to invest in the one in one thousand instances where one is actaully needed.

-------------------------------
Bill Stewart

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Bill, That is the best statement I've read on this entire thread.

I am not a double fan and don't think I will ever become one (not knocking them) they just don't interest me... but if the Remingtons get the job done people who want a double that can't afford to pay the big bucks will buy em.
It's human nature.

I would love to have one of those doubles for a Russian wild boar hunt in Uruguay,, When the dogs corner one of those varmints in the tall grass and I decide that I really don't want to attack the darn thing with a knife and get it really mad .. I'm going to try to order one tomorrow. Being that I live in the Great White North .. the little piglets romping now will be grizzled old boars before it probably all comes together ,,, I can hardly wait !!! Yahoo !!!

I went to the local gun shop here in Southern Alberta and found the Canadian importer of these guns. (Not Remington but I forgot to write down the name ) Anyways, they have a bunch of guns listed and pictured included an over and under 30-06 with a walnut stock for $599 Canadian. But not the side by side 45/70 !!! Grrrrrrrr ! However I wrote down on a sheet of paper that I wanted the 45/70 with a walnut stock (preferably), left a $5 deposit, and walked out of the story in a good frame of mind. Now, hopefully the owner can get hold of those guys and get one for me ..

quote:

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Originally posted by mrlexma:
Here's a question: What could be worse than a Remington?

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Hmmm, I know! A Russian-built Blaser r-93. I would be a "fantastic" rifle made from the same piss-poor quality material

Best of all, quality and pricing would match perfectly

Cheers

Besides the fact that I am a day or 2 behind in getting in my opinion on the subject at hand, the folks at Garrett Cartridges have documentation on their site about using their 45-70 hammerhead ammunition to take a white rhino, cape buffalo, and elephant using their 540gr hard cast bullet respectively. As far as the Remington double goes just remember, you get what you pay for...

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the thread with all the talk about "Remington". These doubles are Baikals just re-badged and renamed for the USA market. Down-under I am pretty sure they will be called Baikal and may have already been sold down here,

Remington buying into the double market with a rough imported cheapie!

quote:

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I'm a bit puzzled that their largest chambering for the SxS is 45-70 when they have a 9.3x74 and 9x53 in the O/U version? Must be targeting the N.A. market with the SXS I guess.

---

Check out the Baikal site. The "Remington Spartan" may come only in S/S .30-06 and .45/70 but the same rifle badged as a Baikal comes in a few more.

***

I hope that for the price they are a servicable double rifle and regulating your own loads with the barrel screws isn't too difficult.

Note there is probably a huge gap between the barrels when viewed from the top.

A .45/70 would make a great close in deer or hog rifle. But who would take a drain pipe clunker like this on an expensive African safari, you've got to be kidding !!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS If they are not over priced down here, and not too bloody ugly and have some resemblance of balance (balance and fit is important in any double) I'll get one just to throw in the back of the ute.

So what's the final verdict double rifle guys?

Can these be made into the 450 NE/110 thingy?

What about reboring to an even larger calibre?

Karl.

Karl,

Do you really want a 7 1/2lb. 450NE

Hog Killer

Yes.

Until I fire it a few times of course

Like Mrlexma was saying its sort of like ogling the old one eyed slut at the end of a hard nights drinking.

Who's gonna know?.
As Nitrox said, throw it in the back of the pick-up for a bit of fun

Karl.

Hog Killer,

Karl shoots a longer and more powerful version of the 585 Nyati for fun.

I can easily believe that he would enjoy a vastly more powerful chambering on the Baikal.

Good hunting!

Well folks, I'll buy one chambered for 45-70, however, it will never see Africa! The reason I'll buy one is I collect anyfirearm that has more that one barrel, no matter how cheap it is made! For example,I have a .22 lr S/S double pistol that sold new for $29.95US.

The one good use for this "SOW'S EAR" is, it would make a good "CANOE GUN" for moose. If you tip the conoe, and loose it, what is lost? I can assure you none of my REAL doubles will ever see the bottom of a lake by falling out of a canoe!

I predict that, unfortunately, these things will see some use in Africa! Why would they be any different from the crap China made AKMs the find their way into legitimate hunting. There is no rhyme or reason to the thought process of some! These things chambered for 45-70 will start a flood of useing the 0ld war horse 45-70 for things it was never designed to be used for!

I voted "AGREE" because of the reasons stated above, but the largest chambering in this Baikal is not suitable for African hunting where a double rifle is needed, but that will not deter some from doing it anyway!

I saw one guy who had one of these he had to fool with it a while with the sim to regulate the barrels but once he did he shot with some of the big money guns. He hung right in there with them it really shot pretty good.

i voted...

and i have an order in for one from remington now...

just 2 years after i placed my first order with EAA

hopes aren't up, but hell, a 45/70 with 405s at 1800 would be an amazing pig gun

jeffe

quote:

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Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Karl,

Do you really want a 7 1/2lb. 450NE

Hog Killer

---

Sure,
I shoot an about 6.75# handirifle in 45/70... while brisk at my loads, it's nothing compared to say a 500 jeffe, 470mbogo or even the lott in the "correct" weight gun.

i am certain you could do a # or more in lead and tungsten

jeffe

From the linked web site:

quote:

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Average weight 6 lb.

---

I'm thinking two things about turbocharging the .45-70 version of these things. 1) OUCH! 2) Is the twist suitable for 500 gr + bullets? If not, why bother?

We spent quite a bit of time at the SHOT Show fondling...er, handling the demo rifle they had there in .45-70. Then we ordered 4 of them, 2 in each chambering. For the price I think its gonna be a lot of fun even without rechambering.

No they do not look like the fine english doubles but for under $500 - why not.

One interesting note; they have printed on the barrels the max pressure allowable - somethng like 33000+/-. What will that do to the rechambering possibilities?

Les

quote:

---

Originally posted by mrlexma:
You guys remind me of a bunch of horny drunks in a bar at closing time:

"Damn, for a one-eyed, slack-jawed, rum-soaked slattern, she ain't bad lookin'!

---

Mate

I enjoyed the comment immensely and very apt too.

quote:

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LHowell
one of us

posted 02 February 2005 10:10
We spent quite a bit of time at the SHOT Show fondling...er, handling the demo rifle they had there in .45-70. Then we ordered 4 of them, 2 in each chambering. For the price I think its gonna be a lot of fun even without rechambering.

No they do not look like the fine english doubles but for under $500 - why not.

One interesting note; they have printed on the barrels the max pressure allowable - somethng like 33000+/-. What will that do to the rechambering possibilities?

---

LHowell

Can I ask you a couple of questions as you have handled one:

1. Is there a gap between the barrels similar to their U/O model? Or do they use a piece of rubber like Blaser to "disguise" it?

2. How do they handle? Do they point OK? Do they feel like two lengths of drain pipe?


I think the guys that rechamber these doubles have a lot of guts and after they are finished with Boston surgeons may need Boston lawyers. Myself I would be happy with a .30-06 or a .45/70 and leave it as it is.

Nitrox

These rifles do not have a wide gap like the u/o rifles / combinations do.

There is something covering that gap both top and bottom but I must admit that I did not investigate what it is made of. It must however have some "flex" in it to accommodate the regulating mechanism. [described as "...one barrel's fixed and you adjust the other to match it ..."]

Handling is, to me, not bad at all. They are not very heavy and the barrels themselves are quite trim. It seemed to balance nicely and moved as a shotgun of that weight would. Not "drain pipes" at all. [ These seem much more compact, or trimmer than the Kodiaks]

They are not pretty by any measure. They are plain and stark and the sights, swivels, and finish are "field" grade to be sure. The front sight is a rather odd post arrangement, the triggers are not "heavy" but have lots of take up before let off. I believe that it has extractors rather than ejectors as well.

But for $500+/- you will be able to get both shots off very quickly. With reasonable calibers for most game.

Les

I am almost sure that these peices of (work) have chrome lined barrels, and if im not mistaken chambers also. I seem to recall this info off of one web site or another. Now im no rocket scientist but I have a good idea of what will happen to your chambering reamer if this info is accurate. Buyer beware.