THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AFRICAN HUNTING FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    What's The Difference Between Hunting and Shooting?
Page 1 2 3 4 

Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
What's The Difference Between Hunting and Shooting?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
This is an underlying theme to many discussions here regarding high fence hunting, hunting with dogs, captive bred animals, put and take, culling, and wildland hunting. This is not about ethics but about defining shooting vs hunting. So what is the defining line between shooting an animal and hunting an animal?


Is hunting on 500 acres behind a high fence hunting or shooting?

Is shooting a Bison at 20 yards hunting?

Is treeing a mountain lion or leopard with dogs and waking up and shooting it out of a tree actually "hunting".

Is walking for 5 or more miles in wildland settings considered hunting?

Is driving down logging roads and shooting an elk hunting?

Is snaring or trapping an animal and then shooting it "hunting".

In a high fenced environment, how long must the animal be allowed to roam before killing it makes it a hunt vs a shoot?

Is staking out a waterhole or feeder or food plot hunting or shooting?

Is shooting a domestic animal ever considered hunting?

If it takes more than 20 minutes to find and shoot an animal is that hunting?


So where do you draw the line? Or is there no distinction between the two?


___________________

Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
 
Posts: 22445 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
I do both and enjoy them clap


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69276 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
But when does shooting become hunting?


___________________

Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
 
Posts: 22445 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Shooting becomes hunting when there is no absolute certainty of a kill. If a hunter goes to a high fenced ranch in Texas with the intention of just shooting any deer at a feeder, it is just a shoot, because the deer will almost certainly show up. If he goes to the same ranch, and limits himself to a fully mature buck, preferably with a minimum of 10 points, and scoring over say, 130 BC, he may or may not be successful in the allotted time. Then, he is hunting.
 
Posts: 333 | Registered: 11 March 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of jjbull
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
But when does shooting become hunting?


I don't think I should decide the answer for you and don't want you deciding for me


___________________________________________________________________________________

Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store.
 
Posts: 820 | Location: Black Hills of South Dakota/Florida's Gulf Coast | Registered: 23 March 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boarkiller
posted Hide Post
In the eye of the beholder
But if you really want an answer, it's when the goat is tied down ... that's shooting


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
 
Posts: 13376 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT or holed up in Lochsa | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Each person may have a very different idea for this answer and I think this is the start to all the problems we have as hunters. Everyone needs to make there way better or tell others they are not doing it the right way.

I have traveled to new mexico many times over the last few years. I have done what I thought was hunting by hiking and walking over a 100 miles on each of my archery elk hunts. Only to see most local hunters drive around hunting for elk. I thought I was hunting and so did they.

I see some one write on here if you take a mature buck of 130 or better on a high fence place passing on young bucks that is hunting. Well way is that right if someone was to walk around stalk a smaller buck not over a feeder. Did that hunter not hunt or is size what makes it hunting.


Here is what I think the best answer is I ever heard and it is nice and simple.
I don't think I should decide the answer for you and don't want you deciding for me

I am sick of the fenced bs or the why don't you just have them chain it up for you. I think most people are smart enough to realize what is fair and sporting.

If tracking down a lioness in the sand till you see her on 10,000 acres after being out and hunting on her own for months. If that is not good enough then I guess I don't know what hunting is anymore.

Even when I do a raised pheasant hunt were the birds are stocked with in hours of me hunting them I think it is hunting. The dog works the same as if it was some big field in south Dakota. They point them we flush them I shot them. Why do I need to do it like this now. Well because PA has next to no wild birds and all the land I hunted has houses on it.

Why do I do it like that now, Well I wanted my son to be able to enjoy bird hunting to. Is it the same as when I grew up well no but it is the best I can do for him locally. Would we both like to hunt like I did 30 years ago well yes we would but that time is past.
 
Posts: 583 | Location: macungie , Pa | Registered: 21 March 2014Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jjbull:
quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
But when does shooting become hunting?


I don't think I should decide the answer for you and don't want you deciding for me


Exactly!


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69276 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of tomahawker
posted Hide Post
It's really very very simple. Shooting requires firing a shot, pulling the trigger, letting an arrow fly, say it however you like. Hunting does not
 
Posts: 3633 | Registered: 27 November 2014Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
It´s called shooting when the experiencing of hunting it was left out.


DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway
 
Posts: 2805 | Location: Denmark | Registered: 09 June 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of billrquimby
posted Hide Post
The difference between hunting and shooting has a parallel in buying yachts. Hunters also don't have to ask.

Bill Quimby
 
Posts: 2633 | Location: tucson and greer arizona | Registered: 02 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
What is the end goal of hunting? Is it not to shot something if not would we not be like all the bunny huggers and shot them with a camera instead.

Time some people get real and stop just saying what they think people want to hear or to make themselves feel like they are just not killing stuff because they can.

I am sure a whole lot of people would have gave up if they did not shot and kill anything after many trips.

The sooner we stop trying to judge others and fight the fight together we will be way better off. It gets old saying it but you don't like it don't do it that way. Just stop talking shit and helping the anti's by bashing other hunters because it may not be your thing.
 
Posts: 583 | Location: macungie , Pa | Registered: 21 March 2014Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of MJines
posted Hide Post
One is living, one is simply taking a life.


Mike
 
Posts: 21861 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Fjold
posted Hide Post
To me:

The difference between hunting and shooting is that when I'm hunting I may not get a shot.


Frank



"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite

 
Posts: 12764 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: 30 December 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
A lot of really good analogies in the above posts...
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
How do you judge this scenario - Say a PH operates a 20,000 acre high fenced farm. He knows every single head on his property - after all this represents 100% of his investment and he knows his portfolio like you know your 401K plan. He knows the origin of each (birthed on farm or delivered from market) he knows the population numbers, he know the approximate trophy size of each, and he knows the general area that each species likes to inhabit on his 20,000 acre farm. He knows he has one 60" Kudu that was purchased as a breeder three years ago but is no longer useful so it’s on a butcher’s bill. Knowing that you want a 60" Kudu (and who wouldn’t) offers a package deal to you - 8 Heads including a 60" Kudu. He then walks and/or drives you around in circles for 5 days knowing full well that you are nowhere close to the Kudu. On the 6th day he then drives you to where the 60" Kudu hangs out. Within 100 yards of the Cruiser you see and shoot your 60" Kudu.

Was that a hunt or was it a shoot?


___________________

Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
 
Posts: 22445 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fjold:
To me:

The difference between hunting and shooting is that when I'm hunting I may not get a shot.


When I go dove hunting I am pretty certain I am going to get a shot. The birds are wild. Is this not hunting?
 
Posts: 12133 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of twoseventy
posted Hide Post
If you want to shoot, shoot. If you want to hunt, hunt. If you want to do both or either, do it. Hell with other peoples' opinions. I don't need validation from the op or responders.


...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men.
-Edward, duke of York

". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

Cogito ergo venor- KPete

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.”
― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations”
 
Posts: 989 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 12 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Was looking for opinions; not handing out validations or condemnations...


___________________

Just Remember, We ALL Told You So.
 
Posts: 22445 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of 35whelenman
posted Hide Post
If the animal(s) have the opportunity to detect, escape and avoid the hunter, then it is hunting.

This is regardless of fenced/free-range, captive-bred/wild born, how far away from the car you are, how long the shot was, etc.
 
Posts: 162 | Registered: 14 September 2014Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
If the animal(s) have the opportunity to detect, escape and avoid the hunter, then it is hunting.


It's really as simple as this...
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of BNagel
posted Hide Post
All I know is -- hunting is not shopping. If it has an ear tag or variable price tag, the "hunt" stops and the shopping begins. Unless the price of a second animal's trophy fee is pre-arranged and known. That's a bargain.


_______________________


 
Posts: 4894 | Location: Bryan, Texas | Registered: 12 January 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I would agree that if the success is 100%, then it is not hunting. Larry, you will get a shot at doves, but you may not kill them. I always see quail in the desert, but I may not kill them.

As for the "if you never see the fence it doesn't matter" argument, as I said on another post, the game can't leave. So given the drought in Namibia, gemsbok go where they have grass if the property is unfenced. When fenced, not matter how large, they can't leave. Big difference IMO.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7581 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
quote:
If the animal(s) have the opportunity to detect, escape and avoid the hunter, then it is hunting.


It's really as simple as this...


I agree.
 
Posts: 12133 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I would agree that if the success is 100%, then it is not hunting. Larry, you will get a shot at doves, but you may not kill them. I always see quail in the desert, but I may not kill them.

As for the "if you never see the fence it doesn't matter" argument, as I said on another post, the game can't leave. So given the drought in Namibia, gemsbok go where they have grass if the property is unfenced. When fenced, not matter how large, they can't leave. Big difference IMO.


I hear what you are saying. I have hunted on a place that is fenced but us 40 MILES across. They may not be able to leave the property but the animals can sure get the hell away from me.
 
Posts: 12133 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
So now if your going to get something it is just killing not hunting. So if the person cant shot worth a shit and behind fence he is a hunter but if I hunt behind fence and I can shot I am not a hunter once again.

I guess because you think it is good for animals you don't see man made waterholes as some kind of fence. because the place in unfenced and mostly a wasteland other then were man had improved it that is all good. I mean after all so many wild animals just roam around barren ground and not hang around the only water on some place. Lets get real we all know the 100,000 acre areas don't have game on all the acres.

Dam some of you need to get over yourselves and your perfect world that is in your head. Those days are gone.
 
Posts: 583 | Location: macungie , Pa | Registered: 21 March 2014Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Those days are gone


Explain... coffee

If we jump back to the lion issue for a moment, there are many countries open and offering free range lion hunting.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Michael Robinson
posted Hide Post
Answers below in RED.

quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
This is an underlying theme to many discussions here regarding high fence hunting, hunting with dogs, captive bred animals, put and take, culling, and wildland hunting. This is not about ethics but about defining shooting vs hunting. So what is the defining line between shooting an animal and hunting an animal?


Is hunting on 500 acres behind a high fence hunting or shooting? COULD BE.

Is shooting a Bison at 20 yards hunting? WHERE ARE YOU FROM? THEY'RE BUFFALO.

Is treeing a mountain lion or leopard with dogs and waking up and shooting it out of a tree actually "hunting". HOW DO YOU TREE ANYTHING ABOVE THE TIMBER LINE OR IN A SWAMP? NOW, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THINK ABOUT IT.

Is walking for 5 or more miles in wildland settings considered hunting? NO. MUST BE SIX MILES AT LEAST.

Is driving down logging roads and shooting an elk hunting? ONLY IN A FORD F150.

Is snaring or trapping an animal and then shooting it "hunting". NO, IT'S TRAPPING.

In a high fenced environment, how long must the animal be allowed to roam before killing it makes it a hunt vs a shoot? AT LEAST ENOUGH TIME TO TURN AROUND ONCE.

Is staking out a waterhole or feeder or food plot hunting or shooting? IT'S DIFFERENT FOR WATERHOLES AND FEEDERS. WATER IS NECESSARY; FOOD IS SEMI-OPTIONAL.

Is shooting a domestic animal ever considered hunting? NO, UNLESS IT'S HIDING FROM YOU.

If it takes more than 20 minutes to find and shoot an animal is that hunting? DEPENDS.


So where do you draw the line? IN THE SAND. Or is there no distinction between the two? THE QUESTION ANSWERS ITSELF.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13757 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
quote:
Those days are gone


Explain... coffee

If we jump back to the lion issue for a moment, there are many countries open and offering free range lion hunting.


But it is not the same as say 20 years ago.

And if you think of how hunting in the states has changed in 20 years. When I started you could get tags for almost all the states no problems. Now you try and draw tags and why is that? because there is not the land or amount of animals for everyone to hunt as they wish. So we have places that raise animals now for hunters to hunt as they want. Just think of how many game ranches have opened in the states. Think of how Africa has changed? Less quota overall for most big 5. Sa bringing game numbers back to record levels but behind fence for a market.

Hunting is not what is was and changing just like other things in our lives. Fighting about fences and raising animals because we did not need that stuff years ago is just crazy to me.

DO I like that some guy can go buy a 400 inch bull elk or a 200 inch whitetail. No I do not but I am never going to bash it either because I will not do it.
 
Posts: 583 | Location: macungie , Pa | Registered: 21 March 2014Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
My personal opinion is that anytime there is a "guarantee" involved, either outright stated or known by the outfitting party then it's shooting/collecting.
 
Posts: 210 | Registered: 29 August 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
- 100% success rates are a normal give away.

- same 100% success rate regardless of hunting instrument - rifle, bow ect is a give away

- if a particular animal can be bought ordered or delivered to a given party is a give away

- hunt durations that are abnormally short - kill 3 lions in 2 days ect are a give away

- if the animal has a ear tag, is microchipped, has a birthdate on a excel spreadsheet is a give away

I have no problem with people shooting chattel. The issue is most of these chattel shoots are sold as hunts. No one is selling canned lion hunts at a live stock convention - they are sold as DSC and SCI.

If one is too embarrassed to display the trophy or write a hunt report to other hunters it is a give away

Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
When you shoot an elk like this and dont tell everyone about it



But are more proud of an free range axis like this that was a free range hunt



Side note - the axis was shot in 30 minutes. That was the luck factor in hunt.

The elk was shot over 2 days and was a great experience but end of day it was a shoot not a hunt. The elk was hunted at someone private preserve - they wanted elk shot had too many old ones.

Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of Bakes
posted Hide Post
Young bloke that works for me is into guns and stuff. His idea of "Hunting" is to drive around the paddocks at night with the spot light. He never gets out of the vehicle.

To me that's shooting. Stalking/walking, looking for sign etc is hunting.

When it comes to high fence/small paddocks hunting.....I just don't care what you do. When I was younger I supposed I looked down my nose at high fence hunters, now I take the view that Saeed has said numerous times, If its legal then fill your boots and have fun. Would I hunt behind a high fence, nope, but that's just my view. If other people want to, then good on em.


------------------------------
A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!"
 
Posts: 8093 | Location: Bloody Queensland where every thing is 20 years behind the rest of Australia! | Registered: 25 January 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Mike, I see you took the Elk with your signature "Knee shot". Where did the other 29 rounds wind up? :-)
 
Posts: 20175 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Mike, I see you took the Elk with your signature "Knee shot". Where did the other 29 round wind up? :-)


rotflmo
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Mike, I see you took the Elk with your signature "Knee shot". Where did the other 29 round wind up? :-)


Big Grin

When your shooting chattel it's all over the place biebs - my view is never close a box of ammo after it has been opened. Only sealed boxes of ammo are fresh.

Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Good point :-) Nice Elk!
 
Posts: 20175 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Good point :-) Nice Elk!


I left him at the taxidermist.

Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
This is my 34th year hunting Africa.

I have hunted in three countries; Zimbabwe and Tanzania, free range, and South Africa on farms.

I have had much easier opportunity to shoot animals in both Zimbabwe and Tanzania, than some of the animals I shot on a farm in South Africa.

In certain areas - Chete in Zimbababwe for instance. One has to be able to do a bit of walking to be able to hunt.

The area was terrible for some people, who are unable to walk in some rough areas to be able to shoot anything.

I like walking, and I found Chete a great place to hunt - especially that I hunted at the end of the season, and was able to shoot all the buffalo left on quota.

Being able to hunt and shoot buffalo in double digits is a buffalo hunter's dream.

We did this for 5 consecutive years clap

I shot the larges buffalo I have ever shot there.

It has one broken horn, and still measured 49 inches.

I suppose some here might not classify that as an actual hunt.

As we were driving to a leopard blind in the afternoon, saw him and another bull running into the hills a few yards from us.

We jumped out of the truck, and a few minutes later we had two buffalo down.

We left them there, drove to the leopard blind, and sent the truck back to pick them up.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69276 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
It has one broken horn, and still measured 49 inches.



Eeker
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    What's The Difference Between Hunting and Shooting?

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia

Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: